Record numbers of free staters flock to join British Army

[Evil Genius]

but that is my point whether we use a capital letter or not, the statelet is named incorrectly, it doesn't include all of northern ireland

Lads don't tell him about New York or he'll crack up altogether.

Never mind New York, just don't mention the state(let) which calls itself "Ireland"...

P.S. Is it just me, or have Republicans recently stopped referring to NI as the "failed statelet"?  And if so, how long before we're all referring to the Republic as the "Failed State"? (Or, seeing as we're on the topic of terminological exactitude, "Der Versagte Staat"? )

The Republic will do just fine EG, sure the U.K. went to the IMF begging bowl in the 1970's 

Aye, we did, no doubt about that.

But what was the response to that low-point in our economic fortunes?

Answer: Thatcherism!

"Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid." 

[Applesisapples]

4000 is a "record" number. I wonder when the record keeping began. 

My nephew was one of the officer cadets who made it to the three day assessment. He was saying most of the boys in the barracks were intending to join up with the Brits if they weren't successful. IMO they should be stripped of their citizenship.

I don't really understand why someone would want to join the british army, but that's just ridiculous.
This isn't a dictatorship, free will exists.

In a dictatorship they'd be shot. I agree 100% with Ulick on this one. Why the hell should any Irishman be permitted to join an army that has shot and murdered Irish citizens for 100's of years right up to the present. They have the free will to do so if they so wish, Ireland should have the free will to tell them to leave their passports at the ferry when they leave.

"Any Irishman"?

You seem to forget that there are one million Irishmen and women on the island for whom joining the British Armed Forces is entirely natural, like these two, for example:
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=124709
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/rir-soldier-becomes-afghan-hero-after-saving-eightyearold-girl-15065346.html

P.S. On the subject of correct nomenclature which has hijacked this thread, I always find it amusing that those posters who are most insistent on the use of the correct [sic] term "Ireland" etc, are invariably the same ones who are completely incapable of typing "Northern Ireland"! Indeed they will resorting to "the Six Counties" or "the North" etc, even ]when a simple "NI" is quicker, more accurate and pretty much unmistakeable... 

I think you'll find 'Northern Ireland' is not more accurate, Donegal is the most northern part of the main landmass of the island and yet it is in the 'south' / '26 counties', therefore 'Northern' is entirely incorrect

Further to MnG's reply above, Donegal is not in Northern Ireland (NI), it is in northern Ireland.

Though these days, it probably wishes it was in both...

At least the South has only had one bailout your "wee country" would have long since sank if it wasn't for the British (as opposed to Uk) tax payer.

Actually, I thinkl you'll find that from 1920 to 1980 (approx), NI was inherently much more wealthy/self-sustaining than the Republic was, by just about any marker you care to choose.

This changed essentially due to four factors:
1. The de-industrialisation which hit the UK (and other Western economies) from the 80's on (shipbuilding, engineering, aircraft etc);
2. The onset of 30 years of civil strife in NI;
3. The EEC pouring (net) billions into the ROI, whilst simultaneously taking it from the UK;
4. More progressive economic policies eventually being introduced in the Republic.

Meanwhile, if NI is one of several UK regions which is currently heavily dependant upon central Whitehall subsidy in order to pay the bills etc, that's how things work in a Union, you take the Rough with the Smooth.

Indeed, this point was never more pertinent than this week, what with it being the anniversary of the Belfast Blitz*, when NI had to bear its share of the Nazi assault, whilst simultaneously the Free state was essentially being spared starvation and complete economic collapse, due to the efforts of the British Navies**, both Royal and Merchant.


* - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Blitz
** - Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)

I note the British Navy, not NI Navy. Also whilst some sections of the population of the north may have been wealthy the majority were on the bread line. but hey your type of revisionist drivel would deny discrimination against Catholics or qualify it by "sure Protestants were just as badly off". I stand by my original statement only Briitish subvention kept the NI Statlet with its Protestant Parliament for a Protestant people afloat.

[AQMP]

Some interesting section in that Wikipedia (copyright Evil Genius) article on the Belfast Blitz

By 6am, within two hours of the request for assistance, 71 firemen with 13 fire tenders from Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, and Dún Laoghaire were on their way to cross the Irish border to assist their Belfast colleagues. In each station volunteers were asked for, as it was beyond their normal duties. In every instance, all volunteered. They remained for three days, until they were sent back by the Northern Ireland government

Taoiseach Eamon De Valera formally protested to Berlin

Two hundred and twenty thousand people fled from the city. Many "arrived in Fermanagh having nothing with them only night shirts". Ten thousand "officially" crossed the border. Over 500 received care from the Irish Red Cross in Dublin

Maybe the Queen will say "Thank You" at Croke Park

Also interestingly:

The Government of Northern Ireland lacked the will, energy and capacity to cope with a major crisis when it came. James Craig, Lord Craigavon, who was Prime Minister of Northern Ireland since its inception in 1921, until his death on November 24, 1940, had become senile. Richard Dawson Bates, was the Home Affairs Minister. According to Sir Wilfred Spender, the cabinet secretary was "incapable of giving his responsible officers coherent directions on policy" – actually, he was drunk for most of each day

Lord Craigavon died on Sunday, 24 November 1940. He was succeeded by John Miller Andrews, then 70 years old, who was no more capable of dealing with the situation than his predecessor. The minutes of his cabinet meetings show more discussion on protecting the bronze statue of Carson than the provision of air-raid shelters

Should Martin McGuinness and the Executive apologise for the conduct of its predecessor...perhaps during a visit to Windsor Park

[Evil Genius]

I note the British Navy, not NI Navy.

And you "note" incorrectly. The two Navies which together defended NI from Fascism, whilst simultaneously preventing the Free State from starving etc, were the Royal Navy and the Merchant Navy.
As such, many people from Ireland, both North and South, served with distinction and courage in each.
But my point was that part of the price NI has to pay for its present subsidisation by Whitehall etc lay in the terrible death and destruction we suffered by being part of the UK during WWII.
By contrast, the Free State benefited very significantly from the sacrifice of the Royal and Merchant Navies, whilst avoiding virtually all of the hardship etc.
Still I trust that this will be recognised fully when Her Majesty visits the Republic later this year.
Like Fcuk.

Also whilst some sections of the population of the north may have been wealthy the majority were on the bread line.

As is/was the case in ROI.
But in making my point that for the majority of our respective histories, NI was more inherently wealthy and prosperous than the ROI, I never denied inequality of wealth within either country.

but hey your type of revisionist drivel would deny discrimination against Catholics or qualify it by "sure Protestants were just as badly off".

Nowhere on this thread (or any other) have I ever denied that RC's in NI were discriminated against and denied their fair shares etc.
So why don't you respond to what I actually post, rather than ranting against what you imagine I really mean, especially when that imagination is grossly wide of the mark, even offensive?

I stand by my original statement only Briitish subvention kept the NI Statlet with its Protestant Parliament for a Protestant people afloat.

It is clear already that regardless of what I argue on such matters, you are going to "stand by" your own opinions, regardless.
As such, you display the closed mindset of what in England I would term a "Sun-reader".

Oh well.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I'm not sure what to make of what I have heard in the last week, thought to ignore it the first time I heard a mate talk about it this week, after trying to kinda change her mind, without actually making it obvious thats what I was trying to do. Now another friend has suggested that she is thinking of doing the same.

2 friends of mine, both 20, one from a Republican, Nationalist, GAA, 6 county background told me last week she intended to join the British army as a nurse, then today another friend also 20 from a Nationalist, Catholic, SDLP background she wanted to join the RAF as a nurse. In both cases I found myself to be a little less tollerent of the idea than I thought I was. I have a friend 21 and female who is from a Protestant & Unionist background and I didn't even bat an eyelid when she told me before Christmas that she wanted to join the RAF, even kind of supported her decision. I have not been able to find myself supportive of my friends from 6 county Nationalist backgrounds.

I think alot of lads on here don't realise that yer young women are all lining up to fight (or cure) for Queen and Country, it has surprised me quite a bit. I think that programme on Channel 4 this week may have been the catalyst.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Free State

I think you will find, even that p***k Churchill called it Éire, unless the war started 2 years earlier than the history books suggest.

[Banana Man]

If you think we should tell Obama not to come because of a Garda overtime bill that Hardy tore asunder, then you can wait.

so you can't respond, any time you try to respond you fire out other people's names and what they posted.

Here's an idea why don't you try tearing something i say asunder, rather than hiding behind other people who try to discuss things - i won't hold my breath

[Evil Genius]

Some interesting section in that Wikipedia (copyright Evil Genius) article on the Belfast Blitz

By 6am, within two hours of the request for assistance, 71 firemen with 13 fire tenders from Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, and Dún Laoghaire were on their way to cross the Irish border to assist their Belfast colleagues. In each station volunteers were asked for, as it was beyond their normal duties. In every instance, all volunteered. They remained for three days, until they were sent back by the Northern Ireland government

Taoiseach Eamon De Valera formally protested to Berlin

Two hundred and twenty thousand people fled from the city. Many "arrived in Fermanagh having nothing with them only night shirts". Ten thousand "officially" crossed the border. Over 500 received care from the Irish Red Cross in Dublin

Maybe the Queen will say "Thank You" at Croke Park

Also interestingly:

The Government of Northern Ireland lacked the will, energy and capacity to cope with a major crisis when it came. James Craig, Lord Craigavon, who was Prime Minister of Northern Ireland since its inception in 1921, until his death on November 24, 1940, had become senile. Richard Dawson Bates, was the Home Affairs Minister. According to Sir Wilfred Spender, the cabinet secretary was "incapable of giving his responsible officers coherent directions on policy" – actually, he was drunk for most of each day

Lord Craigavon died on Sunday, 24 November 1940. He was succeeded by John Miller Andrews, then 70 years old, who was no more capable of dealing with the situation than his predecessor. The minutes of his cabinet meetings show more discussion on protecting the bronze statue of Carson than the provision of air-raid shelters

Should Martin McGuinness and the Executive apologise for the conduct of its predecessor...perhaps during a visit to Windsor Park

There is no doubt that the preparations for, and response to, the threat of German air attack by the Government of NI was woefully and scandalously negligent.

That does not alter my central thesis which is that for all that NI undoubtedly benefits economically from being in the UK, membership of such a Union works both ways.

Indeed, so close-run was the struggle to defy the Nazis in 1940, that it is undeniable that had it not been for the contribution* to the War Effort of (even so small a region as) NI , the War would very likely have been lost.

Which is only like pointing out to those people in ROI who are presently complaining about the financial strictures being imposed by the Germans etc, that they weren't so disgruntled when formerly the (German-financed) EU was pumping billions into the ROI during the 70's, 80's and 90's etc.

Rough with Smooth, rough with smooth...

P.S. I don't know how much Dawson Bates was drinking at the time, but of itself, that wouldn't necessarily have disqualified him from doing a job. For let's face it, it didn't seem to do this man too much harm:
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/he-was-an-alcohol-abuser


* - Ships, aircraft, food, bases, volunteers etc

[Evil Genius]

Free State

I think you will find, even that p***k Churchill called it Éire, unless the war started 2 years earlier than the history books suggest.

My mistake.

Meanwhile, terming Churchill a "p***k" is yours.

And considerably the greater...

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Some interesting section in that Wikipedia (copyright Evil Genius) article on the Belfast Blitz

By 6am, within two hours of the request for assistance, 71 firemen with 13 fire tenders from Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, and Dún Laoghaire were on their way to cross the Irish border to assist their Belfast colleagues. In each station volunteers were asked for, as it was beyond their normal duties. In every instance, all volunteered. They remained for three days, until they were sent back by the Northern Ireland government

Taoiseach Eamon De Valera formally protested to Berlin

Two hundred and twenty thousand people fled from the city. Many "arrived in Fermanagh having nothing with them only night shirts". Ten thousand "officially" crossed the border. Over 500 received care from the Irish Red Cross in Dublin

Maybe the Queen will say "Thank You" at Croke Park

Also interestingly:

The Government of Northern Ireland lacked the will, energy and capacity to cope with a major crisis when it came. James Craig, Lord Craigavon, who was Prime Minister of Northern Ireland since its inception in 1921, until his death on November 24, 1940, had become senile. Richard Dawson Bates, was the Home Affairs Minister. According to Sir Wilfred Spender, the cabinet secretary was "incapable of giving his responsible officers coherent directions on policy" – actually, he was drunk for most of each day

Lord Craigavon died on Sunday, 24 November 1940. He was succeeded by John Miller Andrews, then 70 years old, who was no more capable of dealing with the situation than his predecessor. The minutes of his cabinet meetings show more discussion on protecting the bronze statue of Carson than the provision of air-raid shelters

Should Martin McGuinness and the Executive apologise for the conduct of its predecessor...perhaps during a visit to Windsor Park

There is no doubt that the preparations for, and response to, the threat of German air attack by the Government of NI was woefully and scandalously negligent.

That does not alter my central thesis which is that for all that NI undoubtedly benefits economically from being in the UK, membership of such a Union works both ways.

Indeed, so close-run was the struggle to defy the Nazis in 1940, that it is undeniable that had it not been for the contribution* to the War Effort of (even so small a region as) NI , the War would very likely have been lost.

Which is only like pointing out to those people in ROI who are presently complaining about the financial strictures being imposed by the Germans etc, that they weren't so disgruntled when formerly the (German-financed) EU was pumping billions into the ROI during the 70's, 80's and 90's etc.

Rough with Smooth, rough with smooth...

P.S. I don't know how much Dawson Bates was drinking at the time, but of itself, that wouldn't necessarily have disqualified him from doing a job. For let's face it, it didn't seem to do this man too much harm:
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/he-was-an-alcohol-abuser


* - Ships, aircraft, food, bases, volunteers etc

In general I agree with you and no doubt a high price was paid by NI during WW11 in particular.

However, AQMP touches on a very valid point that the Unionist/Loyaliist view of  Eire's neutrality (and lack of by times) in WW11 is shrouded in myth and inaccuracy.  A lot of this was deliberately cultivated in post war years because of the Stormont's government embarrassement about some aspects of NI's contribution.

Documents published form HM Governments files in the 70's show that the Stormont cabinet requested Westminister not to publish data about volunteers from Ireland.  Apparently the NI figures didn't compare favourably enough to those that gave addresses from the black, papist, neutral free state....oops.

Apparently we didn't all spend our time at home signalling German subs to come ashore for cups of tea.

Neither does it play well to talk about refugees helped, fire tenders sent north or any other aspects of Eire's neutrality that were pro-British.  Of course if you pick any book on that time, the pro-British bias of Irish neutrality will be acknowledged.  Even Winston buried the hatchet with Dev post war.

You are possibly correct about every contribution being needed in early 1940 but after that British intelligence continually advised Churchill not to bring Eire into the War.  Given the inflow of recruits, any further gains would have been out-balanced by the need to flood the country with defenders by making it a "beliigerent"...........

Of course when Lizzie comes to town she will acknowledge some aspect of this by paying respect to those that died in these wars. I see though that will be balanced with those who fought for our independence.  I wonder how such symmetry will go down in some quarters.

Also the EU contribution to Ireland is significant but not to the extent held in Unionist/Loyalist mythology (once again).  Probably of equal importance to the development of the Irish economy was that of American multi-nationals.   


/Jim.

[AQMP]

Some interesting section in that Wikipedia (copyright Evil Genius) article on the Belfast Blitz

By 6am, within two hours of the request for assistance, 71 firemen with 13 fire tenders from Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, and Dún Laoghaire were on their way to cross the Irish border to assist their Belfast colleagues. In each station volunteers were asked for, as it was beyond their normal duties. In every instance, all volunteered. They remained for three days, until they were sent back by the Northern Ireland government

Taoiseach Eamon De Valera formally protested to Berlin

Two hundred and twenty thousand people fled from the city. Many "arrived in Fermanagh having nothing with them only night shirts". Ten thousand "officially" crossed the border. Over 500 received care from the Irish Red Cross in Dublin

Maybe the Queen will say "Thank You" at Croke Park

Also interestingly:

The Government of Northern Ireland lacked the will, energy and capacity to cope with a major crisis when it came. James Craig, Lord Craigavon, who was Prime Minister of Northern Ireland since its inception in 1921, until his death on November 24, 1940, had become senile. Richard Dawson Bates, was the Home Affairs Minister. According to Sir Wilfred Spender, the cabinet secretary was "incapable of giving his responsible officers coherent directions on policy" – actually, he was drunk for most of each day

Lord Craigavon died on Sunday, 24 November 1940. He was succeeded by John Miller Andrews, then 70 years old, who was no more capable of dealing with the situation than his predecessor. The minutes of his cabinet meetings show more discussion on protecting the bronze statue of Carson than the provision of air-raid shelters

Should Martin McGuinness and the Executive apologise for the conduct of its predecessor...perhaps during a visit to Windsor Park

There is no doubt that the preparations for, and response to, the threat of German air attack by the Government of NI was woefully and scandalously negligent.

That does not alter my central thesis which is that for all that NI undoubtedly benefits economically from being in the UK, membership of such a Union works both ways.

Indeed, so close-run was the struggle to defy the Nazis in 1940, that in my humble opinion and with little evidence to support this conjecture it is undeniable that had it not been for the contribution* to the War Effort of (even so small a region as) NI , the War would very likely have been lost.

Which is only like pointing out to those people in ROI who are presently complaining about the financial strictures being imposed by the Germans etc, that they weren't so disgruntled when formerly the (German-financed) EU was pumping billions into the ROI during the 70's, 80's and 90's etc.

Rough with Smooth, rough with smooth...

P.S. I don't know how much Dawson Bates was drinking at the time, but of itself, that wouldn't necessarily have disqualified him from doing a job. For let's face it, it didn't seem to do this man too much harm:
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/he-was-an-alcohol-abuser


* - Ships, aircraft, food, bases, volunteers etc

Fixed that for you there EG   I think drinking on the job might disqualify you from office if you are incapble of giving coherent policy direction

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Free State

I think you will find, even that p***k Churchill called it Éire, unless the war started 2 years earlier than the history books suggest.

My mistake.

Meanwhile, terming Churchill a "p***k" is yours.

And considerably the greater... less

I will say why I believe why below, but I have a British mate who agrees but qualifies it by saying thank God he was one of their pricks.

I believe (from my perspective) Churchill was a p***k because of his involvment in Irish Partition. While I beileve parition is legitimate now due to the majority in one of the administrative regions/states in Ireland wish to preserve partition, at the time of its inception it was wrong, and Churchill was at the heart of that wrong.

Churchill was involved in the gassing of the Kurds in Iraq and creating the two false (at the time at least) states of Jordon and Iraq.

Churchill wrote blatent propeganda in British newspapers for British Imperalism in Afganistan, South Africa and India.

Churchill never truely accepted Irish Independence.

Not really his fault but Churchill took part in the Battle of Omdurman of Sudan, a henious crime.

Churchill was a sexist drunk.

He came from the House of Marlborough. Also not his fault. But as a Republican (in the European tradition) I am opposed to the Aristocracy.

He sacrificed the City of Coventy.

He allowd the excessive bombings of Dresden.

So it is fair to say that he was a bit of a p***k.

But for World War 2 he would have gone down on the wrong side of history. The much worse Joseph Stalin was saved by World War 2 in a similar way.

[Puckoon]

I'm not sure what to make of what I have heard in the last week, thought to ignore it the first time I heard a mate talk about it this week, after trying to kinda change her mind, without actually making it obvious thats what I was trying to do. Now another friend has suggested that she is thinking of doing the same.

2 friends of mine, both 20, one from a Republican, Nationalist, GAA, 6 county background told me last week she intended to join the British army as a nurse, then today another friend also 20 from a Nationalist, Catholic, SDLP background she wanted to join the RAF as a nurse. In both cases I found myself to be a little less tollerent of the idea than I thought I was. I have a friend 21 and female who is from a Protestant & Unionist background and I didn't even bat an eyelid when she told me before Christmas that she wanted to join the RAF, even kind of supported her decision. I have not been able to find myself supportive of my friends from 6 county Nationalist backgrounds.

I think alot of lads on here don't realise that yer young women are all lining up to fight (or cure) for Queen and Country, it has surprised me quite a bit. I think that programme on Channel 4 this week may have been the catalyst.

Who the f**k are you to talk any of these people out of anything?

If some people are of the opinon that times have changed, and they are more interested in putting a good career together - who are you to even have an opinion on it - let alone voice it to them with some attempt to change their minds? What does it matter which religion they are? Some people don't give a f**k about religion - you do realise that? That there is more to life for the average young irish person now than religious and political affiliation - thank the "Lord". It's very refreshing to look at people without labels MGHU - you should try it some time.

Obviously it matters to some brainless idiots on here - but to be honest most younger people are out growing the mayhem that tortured previous generations. They are damn right to let it go - and while never forgetting it happened, I'd say those young people are to be commended - while you need a good boot in the hole.

[Nally Stand]

I'm not sure what to make of what I have heard in the last week, thought to ignore it the first time I heard a mate talk about it this week, after trying to kinda change her mind, without actually making it obvious thats what I was trying to do. Now another friend has suggested that she is thinking of doing the same.

2 friends of mine, both 20, one from a Republican, Nationalist, GAA, 6 county background told me last week she intended to join the British army as a nurse, then today another friend also 20 from a Nationalist, Catholic, SDLP background she wanted to join the RAF as a nurse. In both cases I found myself to be a little less tollerent of the idea than I thought I was. I have a friend 21 and female who is from a Protestant & Unionist background and I didn't even bat an eyelid when she told me before Christmas that she wanted to join the RAF, even kind of supported her decision. I have not been able to find myself supportive of my friends from 6 county Nationalist backgrounds.

I think alot of lads on here don't realise that yer young women are all lining up to fight (or cure) for Queen and Country, it has surprised me quite a bit. I think that programme on Channel 4 this week may have been the catalyst.

Who the f**k are you to talk any of these people out of anything?

If some people are of the opinon that times have changed, and they are more interested in putting a good career together - who are you to even have an opinion on it - let alone voice it to them with some attempt to change their minds? What does it matter which religion they are? Some people don't give a f**k about religion - you do realise that? That there is more to life for the average young irish person now than religious and political affiliation - thank the "Lord". It's very refreshing to look at people without labels MGHU - you should try it some time.

Obviously it matters to some brainless idiots on here - but to be honest most younger people are out growing the mayhem that tortured previous generations. They are damn right to let it go - and while never forgetting it happened, I'd say those young people are to be commended - while you need a good boot in the hole.

Isn't it time you turned your back on violence?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I'm not sure what to make of what I have heard in the last week, thought to ignore it the first time I heard a mate talk about it this week, after trying to kinda change her mind, without actually making it obvious thats what I was trying to do. Now another friend has suggested that she is thinking of doing the same.

2 friends of mine, both 20, one from a Republican, Nationalist, GAA, 6 county background told me last week she intended to join the British army as a nurse, then today another friend also 20 from a Nationalist, Catholic, SDLP background she wanted to join the RAF as a nurse. In both cases I found myself to be a little less tollerent of the idea than I thought I was. I have a friend 21 and female who is from a Protestant & Unionist background and I didn't even bat an eyelid when she told me before Christmas that she wanted to join the RAF, even kind of supported her decision. I have not been able to find myself supportive of my friends from 6 county Nationalist backgrounds.

I think alot of lads on here don't realise that yer young women are all lining up to fight (or cure) for Queen and Country, it has surprised me quite a bit. I think that programme on Channel 4 this week may have been the catalyst.

Who the f**k are you to talk any of these people out of anything?

If some people are of the opinon that times have changed, and they are more interested in putting a good career together - who are you to even have an opinion on it - let alone voice it to them with some attempt to change their minds? What does it matter which religion they are? Some people don't give a f**k about religion - you do realise that? That there is more to life for the average young irish person now than religious and political affiliation - thank the "Lord". It's very refreshing to look at people without labels MGHU - you should try it some time.

Obviously it matters to some brainless idiots on here - but to be honest most younger people are out growing the mayhem that tortured previous generations. They are damn right to let it go - and while never forgetting it happened, I'd say those young people are to be commended - while you need a good boot in the hole.

Puckoon, you obviously haven't read this thread. For one on countless occassions I have said I am an Atheist. I didn't state religion in regards to my Nationalist friends (I just notice I did for my Unionist friends, I meant to highlight Unionist rather than Protestant). I do not condeme those who joining the British army, what I was saying was 1. my surpise at them wanting to join from their nationalist background (esp. the girl from the Republican background) and 2. actually my discomfort with the idea, which if you had read through this thread you will see, its something I didn't think I would feel. I found myself being discouraging in a more semi-unconsious manner rather than a consious one, only realising what I had done on reflection. Really what I think I was getting to was my surprise at the interest in the British Armed Forces from 6 County Nationalist, because if this site is anything to go by and the way the lads on here swear blind otherwise. Also I was suprised at my own reaction and my deep discomfort with the British Army while I would leap into the PSNI in the morning without batting an eyelid.