Record numbers of free staters flock to join British Army

[pintsofguinness]

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

So you prefer to use the term Freestater because you refuse to recognise that the state is actually a Republic? I don't think it's being overly-sensitive to find that insulting and also more than a bit irrational.

That's not what I said, try reading my post again, I've already clarified my position for Hardy. 

Hardy, I would always use the terms freestate and freestaters, my parents would do the same, everyone in the area I'm from would do the same and I've rarely heard the term used as an insult.  The term "nigger" isn't even in the same league and not worth bringing up.

I also hate the term "nordie". 

[pintsofguinness]

I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 

What is it with republican's about how many/how long people have died for their cause being some kind of metric?

I can think of many a political idealogy or goal that people have died for.

The validity of the Republic of Ireland as a state has been tested and accepted electorally, including 1998 in an All-Ireland context.

It is quite reasonable to use that as a barometer ahead of number of deaths for a cause.

As for the term FreeStater, it has been used by many as derogatory term.  Interestingly you append your denial with an explanation that you will never accept the formal status of our state, something that doesn't fit well we your preceeding claims.

/Jim.

None of that is true at all Jim, I would have actually expected you to read people's posts particularly when they've already clarified the point the made for someone else.

[Applesisapples]

i would never have thought of free state as an insult, it evokes that sense of freedom that we in the north yearn for

It was always referred to as that by the older generations as that is what they knew it as, my granda would aways have referred to as 'down in the free state' and the jealousy and envy would spark at the mention of these words that to us in the north equalled freedom.

it is something any southerner should be proud of imho

Very interesting. A perspective I never would have thought of to be honest.
It's out of date now anyway, and an annoyance as much as anything, but interesting to see that for many who used it, it was a term of envy or aspiration rather than a dig/insult.

Exactly what I was saying and got slated for it.

[Nally Stand]

it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties.

"In the republican political tradition, to which I belong, the State is often referred to as the 26 County State. This is a conscious response to the partitionist view, prevalent for so long and still sadly widespread, that Ireland stops at the Border. The Constitution says that the name of the State is Ireland, and Éire in the Irish language. Quite against the intentions of the framers of the Constitution, this has led to an identification of Ireland with only 26 of our 32 counties in the minds of many people."
              Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, April 2000

[gallsman]

Pints, is it unacceptable for someone from the 26 county Republic of Ireland to call you a "nordie"?

If not, why is it any more acceptable for you to call them "free stater".

[gallsman]

it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties.

"In the republican political tradition, to which I belong, the State is often referred to as the 26 County State. This is a conscious response to the partitionist view, prevalent for so long and still sadly widespread, that Ireland stops at the Border. The Constitution says that the name of the State is Ireland, and Éire in the Irish language. Quite against the intentions of the framers of the Constitution, this has led to an identification of Ireland with only 26 of our 32 counties in the minds of many people."
              Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, April 2000

An articulate speaker if ever there was one 

[pintsofguinness]

Pints, is it unacceptable for someone from the 26 county Republic of Ireland to call you a "nordie"?

If not, why is it any more acceptable for you to call them "free stater".

I wouldn't say it was "unacceptable" - I just don't like it. 
I suppose it depends on what is followed after it, sometimes it is used in good spirit which I don't mind but most of the time is will be followed by some derogatory comments, I guess it those comments I have more of an issue with. 
I don't use the term free stater in the same way.

If I wanted to insult or get a dig at a free stater I'd call them a west brit/blue shirt or talk about the "I'm alright Jack" attitude they have and how they're getting a wake up call.  More recently I'd mention that they were owned by Germany or have been bought by the brits. 

[Tubberman]

Pints, is it unacceptable for someone from the 26 county Republic of Ireland to call you a "nordie"?

If not, why is it any more acceptable for you to call them "free stater".

I wouldn't say it was "unacceptable" - I just don't like it. 
I suppose it depends on what is followed after it, sometimes it is used in good spirit which I don't mind but most of the time is will be followed by some derogatory comments, I guess it those comments I have more of an issue with. 
I don't use the term free stater in the same way.

If I wanted to insult or get a dig at a free stater I'd call them a west brit/blue shirt or talk about the "I'm alright Jack" attitude they have and how they're getting a wake up call.  More recently I'd mention that they were owned by Germany or have been bought by the brits.

Which is obviously what you wanted to do just there - very nice. Do you want to go down that road? 

[Nally Stand]

it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties.

"In the republican political tradition, to which I belong, the State is often referred to as the 26 County State. This is a conscious response to the partitionist view, prevalent for so long and still sadly widespread, that Ireland stops at the Border. The Constitution says that the name of the State is Ireland, and Éire in the Irish language. Quite against the intentions of the framers of the Constitution, this has led to an identification of Ireland with only 26 of our 32 counties in the minds of many people."
              Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, April 2000

An articulate speaker if ever there was one 

Rolling Eyes Smiley. An articulate piece of input if ever there was one.

(Always thought he comes across as very articulate myself, not that you comments on his level of speaking skills has anything to to with the topic of discussion which my post relates to).

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties.

Sorry MGHU, but that's just bollix.

The constitution was framed incorporating Articles 2 and 3 of Bunreacht na hÉireann, which asserted that Ireland's territory was the whole island. So the terms 'Ireland' and 'Éire' did indeed encapsulate all 32 Counties of Ireland, as per Articles 2 and 3, and sensibly so.

Since the GFA, when Articles 2 and 3 were rescinded, to use 'Ireland'  (or 'Eire') for the 26 Counties (only) is nonsensical: the second word in northern Ireland is IRELAND! It's yet another example of the incompetence of the previous Dáil incumbents where they couldn't even consider something as fundamental as the State's moniker.

And, by the way, the 'Republic of Ireland' is nonsensical too, since part of Ireland is not a republic (yet). The correct term would be the 'Irish Republic', as is used by a good number of overseas reporting organisations in any case, who obviously don't feel too comfortable abusing the english language.

[Dinny Breen]

Upon leaving school and moving to Dublin, the attitude of (what I perceive to be a majority) people of my generation in the south toward the north, its people and its constitutional status both shocked and apalled me. Apathy is about as politely as I could put it. Nobody cared about the Troubles, nobody knew the history post-partition, nobody was interested in any northern politics. Maybe the last bit is understandable.

From my school, one guy shunned going to uni and went off to the Curragh to join the cadets. Upon graduating he was swiftly sent off to NUIG, where he and a load of other recently graduated officers, spent two years drinking and failing exams for their Arts degrees, on the taxpayer's dime whilst receiving their full salary. This is something that needs to be reviewed. Obviously I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush.

Another fella, who I was quite friendly with, went to Queen's to study Aeronautical Engineering. Always fascinated by planes, particularly fighter jets, he buggered off to join the RAF and is now a few flying hours away from full qualification. Entitled to dual citizenship like anyone born in the north, I no longer consider him Irish and certainly not a friend.

Gallsman there has been a policy change in regards to Cadet recruitment - the majority of cadets recruited these days has a degree already and very few are been sent to Galway to study. It has been recognised that the further studies were as surmised a waste of tax payers monies.

[gallsman]

Gallsman there has been a policy change in regards to Cadet recruitment - the majority of cadets recruited these days has a degree already and very few are been sent to Galway to study. It has been recognised that the further studies were as surmised a waste of tax payers monies.

Cheers Dinny, didn't know that. This fella would have been starting college for the 2007/08 year having been, like the rest of his class, recruited straight out of school. The change has been since then?

[Banana Man]

Pints, is it unacceptable for someone from the 26 county Republic of Ireland to call you a "nordie"?

If not, why is it any more acceptable for you to call them "free stater".

gallsman before you take any further part in this 'debate' i think it's time you decided where you stand, you were the one started this whole debate and now you are slating pints for using the term that you used!!!

[Banana Man]

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

So you prefer to use the term Freestater because you refuse to recognise that the state is actually a Republic? I don't think it's being overly-sensitive to find that insulting and also more than a bit irrational.

That's not what I said, try reading my post again, I've already clarified my position for Hardy. 

Hardy, I would always use the terms freestate and freestaters, my parents would do the same, everyone in the area I'm from would do the same and I've rarely heard the term used as an insult.  The term "nigger" isn't even in the same league and not worth bringing up.

I also hate the term "nordie".

that is basically my point, everyone in the area uses, always has since the formation of the state and it has stuck, again, not in a derogatory way but we all wish we had been part of it, i genuinely fail to see how someone from the 26 counties could take offence at that unless it was used with another word as someone else suggested e.g. ''freestate bastard''.

[gallsman]

Pints, is it unacceptable for someone from the 26 county Republic of Ireland to call you a "nordie"?

If not, why is it any more acceptable for you to call them "free stater".

gallsman before you take any further part in this 'debate' i think it's time you decided where you stand, you were the one started this whole debate and now you are slating pints for using the term that you used!!!

You do, do you? Well, I'd better just drop everything, hadn't I?

Decide where I stand? On what? What debate? My initial post in this thread stated my opinion on Irishmen serving in the Birtish Armed Forces.

Then a separate discussion arose about the use of the term "free state" and I provided my opinion on it.

What have you missed out on?