Record numbers of free staters flock to join British Army

[armagho9]

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

"Freestater" is certainly a perjorative term and everyone knows it.  You only have to say it once to any southerner to see how it pisses them off, so you are being disingenuous here.

It pisses some of them off because they perceive it to be something it's not.
How would you refer to someone from the 26 counties? What would you call them?

As for being disingenuous - if I used it as a term of abuse I would say so.  Is there anything to make you think I'd have any problem with that?

OK - you didn't think it was insulting. But you know now it is insulting to large numbers of people. I assume you wouldn't want to disrespect them and therefore you'll stop using it.

No, I suggest those that get insulted by it realise that there is generally no deep dark motives behind the use of the word and get on with their lives. 
What would you prefer to be referred to as?

No? Fine. Your protestations of not intending to insult are pretty hollow, then. People have told you the term is offensive. You think it's OK to decide for yourself it's not and continue to insult them, knowing they find it offensive and why.

Try it with the "n" word and tell me the difference, should you decide for your own part that you don't mean it as offensive. Would you walk into a Harlem bar and say "hi n*****s"?

(I don't care what you refer to me as).

I actually don't mind being a Nordie as long as it includes Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, oh and North Louth.

Exactly, why do the freestaters refer to us as nordies without refering to Munster people as "southies", Leinster as "easties" or Connacht as "westies".  The brass neck of some complaining about us using "freestaters" as an insulting term.  Mind you if they keep going begging to Europe and Britain then we may not be able to even refer to them as "freestaters" for much longer.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 

What is it with republican's about how many/how long people have died for their cause being some kind of metric?

I can think of many a political idealogy or goal that people have died for.

The validity of the Republic of Ireland as a state has been tested and accepted electorally, including 1998 in an All-Ireland context.

It is quite reasonable to use that as a barometer ahead of number of deaths for a cause.

As for the term FreeStater, it has been used by many as derogatory term.  Interestingly you append your denial with an explanation that you will never accept the formal status of our state, something that doesn't fit well we your preceeding claims.

/Jim.

[thejuice]

I think Hardy's first post sums up the situation. Their are those in our society who are brought up within British (and/or American) popular culture. There is also those (who usually write for the independent) that look at aspects of our own culture as something backward or insular, which  fails to grasp the very idea of culture and why it exists.

As for being called a 'Freestater' I don't mind the term or being called it in itself.

Although when I hear/read it, it's usually within the phrase "you freestate bastards who sold us out". 

While I don't want to dispute (or engage in that fruitless debate for the millionth time) the notion of us selling out the north, you can imagine someone not taking kindly to the term when they usually only hear it accompanied in that context.

The vindictive needling between us that I see on here is most disappointing. I believe that if Nationalists North and South could pull together for once we could really achieve a United Ireland that everyone would be happy to live in.

[Tubberman]

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

"Freestater" is certainly a perjorative term and everyone knows it.  You only have to say it once to any southerner to see how it pisses them off, so you are being disingenuous here.

It pisses some of them off because they perceive it to be something it's not.
How would you refer to someone from the 26 counties? What would you call them?

As for being disingenuous - if I used it as a term of abuse I would say so.  Is there anything to make you think I'd have any problem with that?

OK - you didn't think it was insulting. But you know now it is insulting to large numbers of people. I assume you wouldn't want to disrespect them and therefore you'll stop using it.

No, I suggest those that get insulted by it realise that there is generally no deep dark motives behind the use of the word and get on with their lives. 
What would you prefer to be referred to as?

No? Fine. Your protestations of not intending to insult are pretty hollow, then. People have told you the term is offensive. You think it's OK to decide for yourself it's not and continue to insult them, knowing they find it offensive and why.

Try it with the "n" word and tell me the difference, should you decide for your own part that you don't mean it as offensive. Would you walk into a Harlem bar and say "hi n*****s"?

(I don't care what you refer to me as).

I actually don't mind being a Nordie as long as it includes Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, oh and North Louth.

Exactly, why do the freestaters refer to us as nordies without refering to Munster people as "southies", Leinster as "easties" or Connacht as "westies".  The brass neck of some complaining about us using "freestaters" as an insulting term.  Mind you if they keep going begging to Europe and Britain then we may not be able to even refer to them as "freestaters" for much longer.

Who's "they"? Are we not all the same? I thought the argument was that us 'southerners' treated you 'northerners' (not using the other terms!) differently, whereas you looked on ALL people on the island the same. There is no 'they' and 'us' I thought???
I find it strange that you (as a republican/nationalist I assume) would use the north's position as part of the British economy as something to use against us in the Republic.

[Nally Stand]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

[Hardy]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

How often?

[Rossfan]

By the way the  money the 26 County State ( hope that doesnt offend anyone) may get from Europe and GB is only a loan and has to be paid back.
That is not begging.

[Nally Stand]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

How often?

Well I'm not going to count for you but if you go to the gaaboard.com home page and search for "free stater", five pages of results come up. Now search for "nordie". Sixteen pages of results.

[armagho9]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/record-numbers-of-irish-recruits-join-british-army-2597027.html


RECORD numbers of Irish people are joining the British armed forces, with the levels increasing by upwards of 10pc each year for the past six years.
It is now estimated that 4,000 Irish citizens are in the Royal Navy, Royal Air Force or the British army.
Separately, figures obtained by the Irish Independent show the Irish Defence Forces received 79 applications for every officer cadetship position on offer this year.
A total of 2,365 people applied for just 30 officer cadetship places, a similar scenario to last year when 2,553 people applied for 32 places.
The 30 new cadets will get 15 months training before becoming officers, or "decision- makers", within the army. The numbers applying for positions in the Defence Forces has soared in the past two years, with 1,000 applications received in one week alone last year.
With a starting salary of €30,000, the positions within the air corps, army and navy are coveted as job availability falls off elsewhere.
Recruitment

But with just 30 places on offer this year, many are turning to the British army.
Last year, Irish and Commonwealth nationals formed 5pc of Britain's entire overall recruitment.
Precise numbers are not available for the total number of people joining from the Republic each year -- but it is estimated that upwards of 4,000 Irish citizens are now in the British armed forces.
One British army source said that recruits from the Republic were especially prized because most boast a decent education and all want to make the military their career.
"It is no surprise that a significant number of non-commissioned officers are from Ireland," he said.
In 2006 -- 12 months after British troops largely withdrew from patrolling the streets of Northern Ireland -- people from the Republic already made up 4pc of recruitment in the province.
In 2008, recruitment figures for Northern Ireland showed that 16pc of those joining the British defence forces had addresses in the Republic.
Each year from 2005 to today, the numbers joining the British army from the Republic have increased.
Initial indications are that the recruitment number will increase again this year.
- Ralph Riegel and Edel Kennedy

Maybe its Jack Lynchs' threat of "not standing idly bye" finally swinging into action.  Infiltrating the British Army to protect nationalists in the 6 counties.  Better late than never lads 

[Hardy]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

How often?

Well I'm not going to count for you but if you go to the gaaboard.com home page and search for "free stater", five pages of results come up. Now search for "nordie". Sixteen pages of results.

That's not an answer to the question I asked. You stated that it's "often" the same people using one term who are insulted by the other. If you feel able to make such a statement, you must have some feeling for the frequency of such instances. Otherwise you'd be talking shite and you wouldn't do that, would you?

Anyway, the point is not how often we insult each other here. The point is the pretence of not wishing to insult by using the “freestater” term, having been told that it is, in fact, an insult.

I wouldn’t have really thought of “nordie” as an insulting term. Now I've been told some people find it insulting. From now on, when I use it, it’ll be either to insult someone or because I genuinely forgot, in which case I’ll apologise. In neither case will I pretend it’s not insulting because I have decided it isn’t, no matter how insulted the insultee is.

[Bingo]

A local lad joined the British Army, doesn't bother me at all to be honest, he can make his own decisions.

[armagho9]

Or maybe you just don't know people from the 26 counties find that term offensive as it is the Irish Republic.

Why? You were originally the Irish Free State. It is a term spoken out of envy in this part of the world.

It comes across as a clear denial of the correct status of the Irish State as a Republic. It comes across as a bitter comment on the people of the Republic, who are 100% Irish (as you) and who don't deserve your nasty attitude for just living their lifes. By the way we were Southern Ireland for a few weeks before being the Irish Free State, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland before that, the Kingdom of Ireland before that and the Lordship of Ireland before that. So it make us no sense to call the 26 counties anything but their official title of Ireland or Éire. If those correct terms seem partitionist or too easily confused with the island of the same names why not refer to the 26 as the acceptable name of Irish Republic or the inoffensive description of the 26 Counties. It can get a bit tiring when everything someone from the Republic says is screamed down as bigoted or partitionist, but people from the 6 counties can shout Mexican, FreeStater, WestBrits etc. and find it perfectly acceptable.

We've been through this argument countless times, when will freestaters get it through their thick heads that people in the north refer to the south as the "freestate" and the people there as "freestaters" and the easiest term to use, it's not said with bitterness or anything else. Could you engage your brain for a minute to get that through?
You want people to call the 26 counties Ireland or Eire? What does that make the 6 counties? If someone says Ireland or Eire to me I assume they're talking about 32 counties. 
I will not call the 26 counties the Irish Republic either, people have died for hundreds of years for a 32 county Irish Republic, the only time I feel comforable referring to an Irish Republic is when it's a 32 county Irish republic. 
I suggest you don't be so sensitive.

"Freestater" is certainly a perjorative term and everyone knows it.  You only have to say it once to any southerner to see how it pisses them off, so you are being disingenuous here.

It pisses some of them off because they perceive it to be something it's not.
How would you refer to someone from the 26 counties? What would you call them?

As for being disingenuous - if I used it as a term of abuse I would say so.  Is there anything to make you think I'd have any problem with that?

OK - you didn't think it was insulting. But you know now it is insulting to large numbers of people. I assume you wouldn't want to disrespect them and therefore you'll stop using it.

No, I suggest those that get insulted by it realise that there is generally no deep dark motives behind the use of the word and get on with their lives. 
What would you prefer to be referred to as?

No? Fine. Your protestations of not intending to insult are pretty hollow, then. People have told you the term is offensive. You think it's OK to decide for yourself it's not and continue to insult them, knowing they find it offensive and why.

Try it with the "n" word and tell me the difference, should you decide for your own part that you don't mean it as offensive. Would you walk into a Harlem bar and say "hi n*****s"?

(I don't care what you refer to me as).

I actually don't mind being a Nordie as long as it includes Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, oh and North Louth.

Exactly, why do the freestaters refer to us as nordies without refering to Munster people as "southies", Leinster as "easties" or Connacht as "westies".  The brass neck of some complaining about us using "freestaters" as an insulting term.  Mind you if they keep going begging to Europe and Britain then we may not be able to even refer to them as "freestaters" for much longer.

Who's "they"? Are we not all the same? I thought the argument was that us 'southerners' treated you 'northerners' (not using the other terms!) differently, whereas you looked on ALL people on the island the same. There is no 'they' and 'us' I thought???
I find it strange that you (as a republican/nationalist I assume) would use the north's position as part of the British economy as something to use against us in the Republic.

I do look on all people on this island the same but whether i like it or not there is two governments on this island, so i would say it is pretty clear who i am refering to when i say "they", clearly the freestate government.  As far as norths part of the british economy goes i would say the freestaters pump as much into it as we in the six counties do, you only have to look at the amount of freestate cars up here every day of the week, all up here doing their shopping etc whilst the freestate ecomomy is in tatters.  But just with the guys joining the Bitish Army, money is more important than nationality.

[muppet]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

How often?

Well I'm not going to count for you but if you go to the gaaboard.com home page and search for "free stater", five pages of results come up. Now search for "nordie". Sixteen pages of results.

That's because the nordies here never shut up and the freestate bastards need to stand up for themselves more.

[Nally Stand]

Was going to bring up the whole thing of "nordies" but armagh 09 beat me to it. It never comes as surprise to see that the same people who regularly use the term nordie are often the first to get uppity at being referred to as a freestater. If you cant take an insult, don't give an insult.

How often?

Well I'm not going to count for you but if you go to the gaaboard.com home page and search for "free stater", five pages of results come up. Now search for "nordie". Sixteen pages of results.

That's not an answer to the question I asked. You stated that it's "often" the same people using one term who are insulted by the other. If you feel able to make such a statement, you must have some feeling for the frequency of such instances. Otherwise you'd be talking shite and you wouldn't do that, would you?

Anyway, the point is not how often we insult each other here. The point is the pretence of not wishing to insult by using the "freestater" term, having been told that it is, in fact, an insult.

I wouldn't have really thought of "nordie" as an insulting term. Now I've been told some people find it insulting. From now on, when I use it, it'll be either to insult someone or because I genuinely forgot, in which case I'll apologise. In neither case will I pretend it's not insulting because I have decided it isn't, no matter how insulted the insultee is.

Telling you I'm not going to run off counting references to "nordies" throughout 16 pages of search results is an answer as far as I'm concerned. Telling me I'm chatting shite by not doing so for you does not disprove my point in the slightest.

I also stopped using the term free stater here and have (many times on this board) remarked at how being referred to as a "nordie" is partitionist and insulting. I have still been seen the term used regularly and have also been told that I am wrong to be insulted by it.

[Hardy]

Why did you say it's "often" the same people, then? Are we to take you at your word? You must have a basis for it or surely you wouldn't say it. Because that would be talking shite.