The Haas Talks

Started by Orior, September 20, 2013, 11:41:37 AM

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lawnseed

Quote from: orangeman on January 01, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
Who is going to enforce breaches of the flegs law ? The present law enforcement agency would be useful.
there is a well paid police force here to aid property owner to remove illegal flags from their property and courts to fine those who don't comply. how are rates collected? how are fines collected? you either tackle the problem or it continues..

feel free to suggest an alternative   
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

orangeman

Quote from: lawnseed on January 01, 2014, 11:21:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 01, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
Who is going to enforce breaches of the flegs law ? The present law enforcement agency would be useful.
there is a well paid police force here to aid property owner to remove illegal flags from their property and courts to fine those who don't comply. how are rates collected? how are fines collected? you either tackle the problem or it continues..

feel free to suggest an alternative

Well paid alright. But for whatever reason don't tackle different groupings with the same vigour. That needs to change.


Myles Na G.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 01, 2014, 11:21:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 01, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
Who is going to enforce breaches of the flegs law ? The present law enforcement agency would be useful.
there is a well paid police force here to aid property owner to remove illegal flags from their property and courts to fine those who don't comply. how are rates collected? how are fines collected? you either tackle the problem or it continues..

feel free to suggest an alternative
Wise up. The Housing Executive owns about 90,000 properties, the Housing Associations about another 30,000. Say, for talks sake, about half of these are tenanted by people from the PUL community. Already, in any given summer, a good few thousand of this 60,000 stick flags outside their house. Throw into the mix a ban on doing so and what would happen? Tens of thousands of flags would go up. Explain to me then what the PSNI are supposed to do faced with such a scenario. Do you expect them to go in to areas like Rathcoole and Ballybeen and Shankill and physically remove each and every flag from each and every property? Or would they instead just drive about taking photos of each and every flag with a view to sending a case to the PPS? How do you think the courts would process these thousands of offenders? And what would happen when they all, inevitably, refused to pay the fine imposed on them for, as they see it, having the temerity to fly the flag of their country from outside their home?

If you look around, you'll see that there are already plenty of illegal murals and commemorations to various fallen 'heroes' dotted around the place, in both nationalist and loyalist areas. Nothing is done about these, because the authorities know that to try and enforce the rule of law against the will of a local community is to greatly worsen the situation. They try to deal with them through mediation and negotiation. Doesn't always work, of course, but then neither would criminalising vast swathes of the population.

JUst retired

 So then we all fly flags on our houses,at least that will make the place colourful.
When they wanted to remove 1 flag in the late sixties on the Falls road road it didnt take them too long to do it. Bring back the RUC they are the boys ;)

Count 10

Back to direct rule....the clowns on the hill couldn't run a bath!!
People are worried about jobs, health and education and these morons are arguing over a flag....time for the brits to restore order ;)

johnneycool

With the soundbites from Mike Nesbitt the other day, its not hard to see that he's aligning the Ulster Unionist party as a DUP lite.


lawnseed

Quote from: Myles Na G. on January 02, 2014, 06:36:53 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 01, 2014, 11:21:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on January 01, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
Who is going to enforce breaches of the flegs law ? The present law enforcement agency would be useful.
there is a well paid police force here to aid property owner to remove illegal flags from their property and courts to fine those who don't comply. how are rates collected? how are fines collected? you either tackle the problem or it continues..

feel free to suggest an alternative
Wise up. The Housing Executive owns about 90,000 properties, the Housing Associations about another 30,000. Say, for talks sake, about half of these are tenanted by people from the PUL community. Already, in any given summer, a good few thousand of this 60,000 stick flags outside their house. Throw into the mix a ban on doing so and what would happen? Tens of thousands of flags would go up. Explain to me then what the PSNI are supposed to do faced with such a scenario. Do you expect them to go in to areas like Rathcoole and Ballybeen and Shankill and physically remove each and every flag from each and every property? Or would they instead just drive about taking photos of each and every flag with a view to sending a case to the PPS? How do you think the courts would process these thousands of offenders? And what would happen when they all, inevitably, refused to pay the fine imposed on them for, as they see it, having the temerity to fly the flag of their country from outside their home?

If you look around, you'll see that there are already plenty of illegal murals and commemorations to various fallen 'heroes' dotted around the place, in both nationalist and loyalist areas. Nothing is done about these, because the authorities know that to try and enforce the rule of law against the will of a local community is to greatly worsen the situation. They try to deal with them through mediation and negotiation. Doesn't always work, of course, but then neither would criminalising vast swathes of the population.
yeah.. I'll wise up when I read your plausible alternative.

its possible to fine householders for not burning smokeless coal.. fining them for fly a flag with a couple of photos of their flag would seem a lot easier. if they don't pay it then take it out of their benefits. lets see whether they're loyal to the crown of the pown

as regards murals if planning is sought and granted without objection.. no problem paint away.. the owner of the property needs to contribute something toward its up keep and maybe pay more rates
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

orangeman

Getting rid of centuries of institutionalised bias and discrimination on both sides will be easier said than done never mind enforced.

I know your examples about rates collection agency and planning department are sound in principle but in practice they're not exactly like for like.

lawnseed

#128
Quote from: orangeman on January 02, 2014, 10:54:17 AM
Getting rid of centuries of institutionalised bias and discrimination on both sides will be easier said than done never mind enforced.

I know your examples about rates collection agency and planning department are sound in principle but in practice they're not exactly like for like.

well the alternative is to just keep on at what we are doing.. unless someone has a better idea.. I'm all ears..
do you know that England is booming and I mean booming. but for the fact that the place is coming down with foreign workers the place would come to a standstill. for now and as part of the uk I'm looking for signs of that boom coming here and I don't see it.. I passed a brand new industrial estate near Birmingham a couple of months ago the billboard read 2550 new jobs coming soon apply now www... No business is going to bring that kind of investment here with the shite that goes on here. I have kids I want to see them grow up here and get work here not Skype them.
I fukn sick of this shite and but for the mrs I'd pull the plug on nordieland in seconds. d**kheads here think this is a great place- its not. you can talk it up as much as you like the football.. the hurling.. the scenery.. bullshit can you eat a hurly stick or a flag try it.

I know a lad whos working in England hes not smart but hes a good worker he had 900 the week before Christmas and yer man gave him 900 as a bonus.. he drives a digger fer fuksake.. guys here cant get 300 a week doing the same job.

MAYBE and it is maybe if this place was a bit more civilised we could get some of these companies to give us- even a portion of their jobs.. just a wee bit- a hundred jobs around here would make a serious difference. these pricks fighting with the police are all people think about when they look at the map. IT HAAS TO CHANGE
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

lynchbhoy

the issues were never gong to obtain agreement on from unionist/loyalist side -they couldnt be seen byt their electorate to agree withanything as the unionist/loyalists are already unhappy with too many 'concessions' (equality) being made
..........

lawnseed

if I were dandy dave I'd tell them no agreement no fukn cheque!! see if they resign. haas is working for nothing persay lets see if our crowd will do the same.
no more messing bring this to a head now
A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

orangeman

Quote from: lawnseed on January 02, 2014, 11:53:44 AM
if I were dandy dave I'd tell them no agreement no fukn cheque!! see if they resign. haas is working for nothing persay lets see if our crowd will do the same.
no more messing bring this to a head now

LS. You're talking and making a lot of sense and fully understand your frustrations. I think the no agreement no cheque one has been threatened a few times but those with this often cited mandate know they can take it to the wire and beyond cos they've called the governments' bluffs a few times and won. So they're like the smart child who knows that the parents might shout at them but they'll never take the stick out even though they say they're going to.


Jeepers Creepers

I see unionists didnt agree to the Haas Proposals after consultation with Willie Frazier & Jamie Bryson!? Holy F**k, heard it all now.

deiseach

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 06, 2014, 02:02:10 PM
I see unionists didnt agree to the Haas Proposals after consultation with Willie Frazier & Jamie Bryson!? Holy F**k, heard it all now.

Is that just something the dogs on the street are saying or is it official?

imtommygunn

Yeah - is that official?

I'd like to think unionists, as bad as they are, aren't listening to those 2 loonies. Them boys should be fading into obscurity soon enough but if this is true that may no happen or happen so quickly anyway :-(