China Coronavirus

[Taylor]

The UK (and Ireland) have completely fucked things up.

Just look at the pictures from New Year celebrations around the world - to see how an island could have handled a pandemic

The Free State was giving itself a pat on the back not so long ago for best in Europe.

It's all panic and hysteria at the minute though.

Loads of cases but let's see how it compares to a bad winter flu season in terms of excess deaths.

Has any country had death rates per cases in line with the so called first wave?

What do we know about immunity from the science community yet? I'd say it's a fair guess that up to 10-15%+ of the O6 could have had this so far?

AFAIK the immunity only lasts for x amount of months - if that is true then its vaccine or nothing

[Maroon Manc]

Can't seem to find a figure of how many in the UK have had the vaccine so far, anyone know? It was 940,000 as of the 27th of December.

[Angelo]

We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

[Milltown Row2]

Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

[JoG2]

Can't seem to find a figure of how many in the UK have had the vaccine so far, anyone know? It was 940,000 as of the 27th of December.

Oxford vaccines to arrive with GP practices today week. Numbers should ramp up very quickly then. Cannot come quickly enough. Jan is going to be so tough on a lot of folk.

[Taylor]

Scotland effectively locking down from midnight

[Tubberman]

We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

Or let it kill the old and vulnerable and it will be much quicker.
But I'd prefer not to live in a society that sees that as preferable to protecting those groups until they're vaccinated.

[Milltown Row2]

I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

[Seaney]

So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

[thebigfella]

So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

[Tubberman]

So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

I have a friend who is immunocompromised. She's 41.
I have a niece with a heart condition. She's 6.
Time to write them off?

[Seaney]

So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

Head in sand!

[Seaney]

So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

I have a friend who is immunocompromised. She's 41.
I have a niece with a heart condition. She's 6.
Time to write them off?

Who said write them off?  What about the people in society I mentioned, write them off?

[Angelo]

Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

[Angelo]

We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

Or let it kill the old and vulnerable and it will be much quicker.
But I'd prefer not to live in a society that sees that as preferable to protecting those groups until they're vaccinated.

Covid tunnel vision.

You don't have any interest in those with need of access to support services - people with mental health problems, people in abusive relationships, recovering addicts, people who need the support of group therapies and counselors, people who live alone and their only means of social interaction and freedom taken from them?

Big two fingers to them right?

It's quite disgusting the way a certain cohort of posters try and react to any sort of reasoned and rounded point I put across. You don't countenance at all that lockdown restrictions have absolutely catastrophic implications for certain vulnerable groupings in society, do you?