Priest stuns congregation by resigning over affair.

[Donagh]

Does your wife have something big she's trying to keep a lid on?

A vow is made at a point in time to be maintained with the best will in world. However, "to err is human" etc. so just because he has broken that vow after many years of, apparently sterling, service shouldn't sully the work he has done, nor does it make him a bad man overnight.

As Pints says it actually shows the public that priests are normal, they have a heart and aren't all predators preying on innocent young boys and girls.

Sounds like a loss to the Church but good luck to them.

If she does that would be between her and her priest not between her, her priest and his girlfriend.

I didn't say it makes him a bad man, but certain standards are expected from priests and that's what allows them into a position of trust. That he has failed to live up to those standards has caused damage to his Church and undermined the authority of other priests.

[Puckoon]

1. Large assumption
2. I am sure when your marriage falls apart - the fact that the archaic nature of the church "forbids" it - isnt the biggest thing on someones mind
3. Arent you a catholic? Even though your post seems to suggest that you dont believe that I am.
4. As above I guess.

Puckoon, a lot of people who have been around here long enough know my religious opinions and unlike Doogie they know better than to make unwarranted assumptions about my personal beliefs of the basis of something which challenges their cosy world view. The opinion I have presented is that of a Catholic not an 'à la carte Catholic' as they have become known. As this man is a Catholic priest who vowed obedience to Church teaching and doctrine, then I feel it is appropriate to present this view. Of course if that view is uncomfortable for some to take then so be it but not only has this man broken his vows but he has also undermined his Church and his fellow priests who struggle to keep theirs. I acknowledge he has done the correct and honourable thing by resigning but it remains that he has damaged his Church and the authority of his fellow priests by breaking his vows.

OK - Thats what I am asking. You said to ask a catholic - so as you are a firm, non wavering, fundamentalist catholic, I thought Id ask you.

Q. How can anyone who is divorced become reconciled with the church, on the basis that their irreconciliation lies firmly at the churches stance on their divorce, and not any fault of their own (other than god forbid - their wife/husband divorced them)?

Thats what I wanted to know - you said to ask a catholic, so here I am, asking one.

(I realise I may have made up a word there).

I'm not.

You just said you were?

In fairness he's on record as saying the missus is a Catholic whereas he isn't.

Oh, OK.

[Main Street]

The priest deviated from his duties/vows.
At a wild guess he is not the first priest to deviate from his vows. Afaia deviating from his strict vows in the catholic church is not enough to have a priest in the pastoral doghouse. Should the said priest still be resolved to continue as a priest then he does some form of confession, is forgiven and carries on.

The circumstances surrounding his thoughts to resign, his contact with the woman and his final decision to resign are not known.

[Tony Baloney]

Does your wife have something big she's trying to keep a lid on?

A vow is made at a point in time to be maintained with the best will in world. However, "to err is human" etc. so just because he has broken that vow after many years of, apparently sterling, service shouldn't sully the work he has done, nor does it make him a bad man overnight.

As Pints says it actually shows the public that priests are normal, they have a heart and aren't all predators preying on innocent young boys and girls.

Sounds like a loss to the Church but good luck to them.

If she does that would be between her and her priest not between her, her priest and his girlfriend.

I didn't say it makes him a bad man, but certain standards are expected from priests and that's what allows them into a position of trust. That he has failed to live up to those standards has caused damage to his Church and undermined the authority of other priests.

This is a nothing story in terms of damage to the Church in comparison to the abuse scandals.

[Donagh]

Oh, OK.

Puckoon, I'm simply putting the Catholic position as I see it and to be honest I can see the logic of that position. I may not agree with the rules of the Church but I take a keen interest in them and debate them with the wife. In doing so, I can now that my previous Marxist interpretation that they were were invented by hermits with too much time on their hands in order to subjugate people is wrong and that there is a certain logic and moral honesty in them. I also see that to the faithful, the Church and it's teachings are treasured and they are deeply hurt when the Church is betrayed by one of it's own - whether it be the breaking of vows in this case, the child abuse scandals or merely the conceitedness displayed by many Irish Bishops. 

[The Iceman]

OK - Thats what I am asking. You said to ask a catholic - so as you are a firm, non wavering, fundamentalist catholic, I thought Id ask you.

Q. How can anyone who is divorced become reconciled with the church, on the basis that their irreconciliation lies firmly at the churches stance on their divorce, and not any fault of their own (other than god forbid - their wife/husband divorced them)?

Thats what I wanted to know - you said to ask a catholic, so here I am, asking one.

(I realise I may have made up a word there).

Puck I think they only way they can become reconciled with the Church is if they seek an annulment of the marriage.  I am not a big fan of these as I think they are thrown out left right and center much too easily but that's for another topic.

In fairness I think Donagh is only taking the official Church stance here and I tend to agree with him.  I am a firm believer - you are either in or your not, no 'a la carte' or 'pick and mix', its all or nothing. 

With that said I have actually met the Priest in question and as was remarked before he was/is a decent man.  He did the wrong thing in breaking his vows, in abusing his position but he also did the right thing in resigning and I tip my hat to him for that.

I don't for a second believe that Maynooth would be building an extension to house trainees if Priests were allowed to Marry.  It isn't just a job its a vocation.  This is a huge topic that will certainly not be solved on a GAA board.  I have a lot of friends who are priests and I have asked them all and discussed it extensively with them and only one would have loved to have been married.

Most of these arguments are about our own definition of "Roman Catholic" or "Christian".  We all have different definitions to suit ourselves.  The only definition that matters at the end of the day though is the Church's definition.  You can dance around it and huff and puff as much as you like - if you are not following the Church's teachings or at least trying to then you are not a Roman Catholic.  As one poster put it though it isn't up to us to judge - it's between you and God and your conscience.

[ardmhachaabu]

But maybe she doesnt want direction or pastoral care donagh.  Most seperated or divorced people these days don't care what they church think of them and don't look to the church for anything. 
Maybe she's perfectly happy, was perfectly happy when she started going with him.  You're making awful big assumptions to condemn the man.

Maybe, but sometimes a sick person may not want healed. That would be the view of a Catholic and as such the duty of a Catholic priest would be to attempt to give her guidance.

I'm not condemning the man, simply pointing out that by expected standards, his actions were wrong.

A lot of Catholics think that would be nonsense.  I mean is there many out there who would expect someone to stay in a unhappy marriage? and I'd include priests in that.  It may be the official church policy but I don't see or hear of it in practice too often, not this century anyway.

pints, you know I am a practicing Catholic.  As such, I think the sacrament of marriage has to be respected, it's not simply between man and woman, they take oaths before God to promise various things, depending on the rite they choose.  Marriage is a life-long committment, not to be ended when one party gets tired of the hum-drum of ordinary-day life.

[pintsofguinness]

But maybe she doesnt want direction or pastoral care donagh.  Most seperated or divorced people these days don't care what they church think of them and don't look to the church for anything. 
Maybe she's perfectly happy, was perfectly happy when she started going with him.  You're making awful big assumptions to condemn the man.

Maybe, but sometimes a sick person may not want healed. That would be the view of a Catholic and as such the duty of a Catholic priest would be to attempt to give her guidance.

I'm not condemning the man, simply pointing out that by expected standards, his actions were wrong.

A lot of Catholics think that would be nonsense.  I mean is there many out there who would expect someone to stay in a unhappy marriage? and I'd include priests in that.  It may be the official church policy but I don't see or hear of it in practice too often, not this century anyway.

pints, you know I am a practicing Catholic.  As such, I think the sacrament of marriage has to be respected, it's not simply between man and woman, they take oaths before God to promise various things, depending on the rite they choose.  Marriage is a life-long committment, not to be ended when one party gets tired of the hum-drum of ordinary-day life.

I agree but that said do you think someone should be expected to stay in a unhappy marriage? 
Should that person leave the marriage or is it a case of "tough"?

[Tony Baloney]

But maybe she doesnt want direction or pastoral care donagh.  Most seperated or divorced people these days don't care what they church think of them and don't look to the church for anything. 
Maybe she's perfectly happy, was perfectly happy when she started going with him.  You're making awful big assumptions to condemn the man.

Maybe, but sometimes a sick person may not want healed. That would be the view of a Catholic and as such the duty of a Catholic priest would be to attempt to give her guidance.

I'm not condemning the man, simply pointing out that by expected standards, his actions were wrong.

A lot of Catholics think that would be nonsense.  I mean is there many out there who would expect someone to stay in a unhappy marriage? and I'd include priests in that.  It may be the official church policy but I don't see or hear of it in practice too often, not this century anyway.

pints, you know I am a practicing Catholic.  As such, I think the sacrament of marriage has to be respected, it's not simply between man and woman, they take oaths before God to promise various things, depending on the rite they choose.  Marriage is a life-long committment, not to be ended when one party gets tired of the hum-drum of ordinary-day life.

Do people get divorced when they get tired of everyday life together? The Church basically forced previous generations of women to stick by their man no matter what was thrown their way. Women who were abused and could take no more left their husbands in times gone by. What did they get from the Church and its medieval ways? Treated like a leper, that's what.

[ardmhachaabu]

But maybe she doesnt want direction or pastoral care donagh.  Most seperated or divorced people these days don't care what they church think of them and don't look to the church for anything. 
Maybe she's perfectly happy, was perfectly happy when she started going with him.  You're making awful big assumptions to condemn the man.

Maybe, but sometimes a sick person may not want healed. That would be the view of a Catholic and as such the duty of a Catholic priest would be to attempt to give her guidance.

I'm not condemning the man, simply pointing out that by expected standards, his actions were wrong.

A lot of Catholics think that would be nonsense.  I mean is there many out there who would expect someone to stay in a unhappy marriage? and I'd include priests in that.  It may be the official church policy but I don't see or hear of it in practice too often, not this century anyway.

pints, you know I am a practicing Catholic.  As such, I think the sacrament of marriage has to be respected, it's not simply between man and woman, they take oaths before God to promise various things, depending on the rite they choose.  Marriage is a life-long committment, not to be ended when one party gets tired of the hum-drum of ordinary-day life.

I agree but that said do you think someone should be expected to stay in a unhappy marriage? 
Should that person leave the marriage or is it a case of "tough"?

That's a very complicated question in all fairness, it depends on what you mean by unhappy - if it's a case of being tired of your partner's habits etc then tough sh!t

OTHO, if it transpired that one party didn't live up to their commitments to the marriage, and it could be proven, (there are other reasons I am unsure of) then an annulment could be obtained, but only in extreme circumstances

[pintsofguinness]

OTHO, if it transpired that one party didn't live up to their commitments to the marriage, and it could be proven, (there are other reasons I am unsure of) then an annulment could be obtained, but only in extreme circumstances

Annulment can't be obtained if someone is cheating or abusive can it?

[Tony Baloney]

OK - Thats what I am asking. You said to ask a catholic - so as you are a firm, non wavering, fundamentalist catholic, I thought Id ask you.

Q. How can anyone who is divorced become reconciled with the church, on the basis that their irreconciliation lies firmly at the churches stance on their divorce, and not any fault of their own (other than god forbid - their wife/husband divorced them)?

Thats what I wanted to know - you said to ask a catholic, so here I am, asking one.

(I realise I may have made up a word there).

Puck I think they only way they can become reconciled with the Church is if they seek an annulment of the marriage.  I am not a big fan of these as I think they are thrown out left right and center much too easily but that's for another topic.

In fairness I think Donagh is only taking the official Church stance here and I tend to agree with him.  I am a firm believer - you are either in or your not, no 'a la carte' or 'pick and mix', its all or nothing. 

With that said I have actually met the Priest in question and as was remarked before he was/is a decent man.  He did the wrong thing in breaking his vows, in abusing his position but he also did the right thing in resigning and I tip my hat to him for that.

I don't for a second believe that Maynooth would be building an extension to house trainees if Priests were allowed to Marry.  It isn't just a job its a vocation.  This is a huge topic that will certainly not be solved on a GAA board.  I have a lot of friends who are priests and I have asked them all and discussed it extensively with them and only one would have loved to have been married.

Most of these arguments are about our own definition of "Roman Catholic" or "Christian".  We all have different definitions to suit ourselves.  The only definition that matters at the end of the day though is the Church's definition.  You can dance around it and huff and puff as much as you like - if you are not following the Church's teachings or at least trying to then you are not a Roman Catholic.  As one poster put it though it isn't up to us to judge - it's between you and God and your conscience.

Many people see teaching, nursing, farming as a vocation rather than a job. They're allowed to marry. Allowing them to marry would hopefully normalise the priesthood and the creeps would eventually see it was no place for them. By practicing what they preach with regards to marriage and family and the challenges they both bring people would have more respect for what they say.

[ardmhachaabu]

OTHO, if it transpired that one party didn't live up to their commitments to the marriage, and it could be proven, (there are other reasons I am unsure of) then an annulment could be obtained, but only in extreme circumstances

Annulment can't be obtained if someone is cheating or abusive can it?

I think it can though I am not 100% on that...

An aunt of mine works in the office that deals with it, will ask her next time I am talking to her and get back to you

[ardmhachaabu]

But maybe she doesnt want direction or pastoral care donagh.  Most seperated or divorced people these days don't care what they church think of them and don't look to the church for anything. 
Maybe she's perfectly happy, was perfectly happy when she started going with him.  You're making awful big assumptions to condemn the man.

Maybe, but sometimes a sick person may not want healed. That would be the view of a Catholic and as such the duty of a Catholic priest would be to attempt to give her guidance.

I'm not condemning the man, simply pointing out that by expected standards, his actions were wrong.

A lot of Catholics think that would be nonsense.  I mean is there many out there who would expect someone to stay in a unhappy marriage? and I'd include priests in that.  It may be the official church policy but I don't see or hear of it in practice too often, not this century anyway.

pints, you know I am a practicing Catholic.  As such, I think the sacrament of marriage has to be respected, it's not simply between man and woman, they take oaths before God to promise various things, depending on the rite they choose.  Marriage is a life-long committment, not to be ended when one party gets tired of the hum-drum of ordinary-day life.

Do people get divorced when they get tired of everyday life together? The Church basically forced previous generations of women to stick by their man no matter what was thrown their way. Women who were abused and could take no more left their husbands in times gone by. What did they get from the Church and its medieval ways? Treated like a leper, that's what.

Tony, I think these days people do get divorced because they are tired of their partner - their ways or personality or whatever excuse they use

I know in previous times the Church was more regimental about this but it has softened its approach to annulments when the cases they are looking at are genuine ones

[Puckoon]

Oh, OK.

Puckoon, I'm simply putting the Catholic position as I see it and to be honest I can see the logic of that position. I may not agree with the rules of the Church but I take a keen interest in them and debate them with the wife. In doing so, I can now that my previous Marxist interpretation that they were were invented by hermits with too much time on their hands in order to subjugate people is wrong and that there is a certain logic and moral honesty in them. I also see that to the faithful, the Church and it's teachings are treasured and they are deeply hurt when the Church is betrayed by one of it's own - whether it be the breaking of vows in this case, the child abuse scandals or merely the conceitedness displayed by many Irish Bishops.

Agree wholeheartedly - but also believe these rules are somewhat unascertainable for the majority of men. I know that priests are a particular breed, but with the vocational numbers dying out, the scandals, and the basic fact that men are of their very nature - I think that the logica and moral honesty may be better placed elsewhere (in this particular instance).