Stormont gravy train : “Amazing” increases in MLA staff & office costs

[sid waddell]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

[Angelo]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

[sid waddell]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics

By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all

But that wouldn't be very sensible

What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics

If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well

[imtommygunn]

Did they not give a massive payrise over the last few years to the taoiseach?

[haranguerer]

Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.

I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.

Is it not just picking your friends/family/relative into a job they may not be in anyway qualified for or be in a function to carry out and get paid a handsome (more handsome) salary to do so?

That is wrong.

Not sure how it is dealt with, but agree there should be accountability and justification round the recruitment and employment. I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility at all that in some cases it is family members who are best for the job though.

I agree also that politicians salaries should be such that they attract people who are suitably qualified/experienced. Things are a bit skewed in the north and in general i think the quality of politician is poor, but I don't see how cutting salaries or giving them shit about it etc is going to improve that. I guess we need to think about the type of people we'd like to see in charge of govt departments. For some on here its seems to be those who are independently wealthy and so have no need of the salary a demanding role would justify. I'm sure there'd be no problems there 

If that isn't to be the case, then we need to think about how we attract people who will make good ministers, and what sort of salaries would attract those people.

[Angelo]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?

Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.

[Angelo]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics

By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all

But that wouldn't be very sensible

What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics

If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well

I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.

You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?

[sid waddell]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics

By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all

But that wouldn't be very sensible

What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics

If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well

I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.

You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?

You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts

What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics

You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background

Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy

This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose

This is fairly basic stuff

If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?

Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.

is this a joke question

[Milltown Row2]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?

Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.

I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)

[Angelo]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics

By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all

But that wouldn't be very sensible

What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics

If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well

I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.

You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?

You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts

What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics

You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background

Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy

This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose

This is fairly basic stuff

If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you

Was John Hume not paid peanuts when he entered politics?

When you look at the class of politician don't south, paying them a kings ransom also seems to attract monkeys, monkeys who are only interested in lining their own pockets too.

What I am proposing is the end of career politicians and the returns of community activists and open it up for those who see it as a vocation to change society for the better and not an avenue where they can use government jets, stay in top hotels, get wined and dined in the finest restaurants and further line their own pockets. We currently have a system of politics where politicans are extremely well remunerated and seem to be completely and utterly incompetent in fixing or addressing the failings in society.

So I fail to see any semblance of credibility when you are reinforcing a system that is already a proven failure.

[Angelo]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?

Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.

I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)

There's certainly merit to that when there was no assembly there for a huge amount of time, but in general terms MLAs are the equivalent of a TD.

[Milltown Row2]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.

Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?

Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.

I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)

There's certainly merit to that when there was no assembly there for a huge amount of time, but in general terms MLAs are the equivalent of a TD.

Jesus, there are some fuckwits earning handy money for 3 years before they came back! to a pay rise 

[sid waddell]

What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?

Actual figures, like

You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north

Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid

I'd suggest the average industrial wage 

(barring book deals and the likes)

That doesn't seem very sensible to me

Why?

Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.

If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.

Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?

For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that

If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit

And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.

It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.

Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?

You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics

By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all

But that wouldn't be very sensible

What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics

If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well

I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.

You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?

You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts

What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics

You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background

Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy

This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose

This is fairly basic stuff

If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you

Was John Hume not paid peanuts when he entered politics?

When you look at the class of politician don't south, paying them a kings ransom also seems to attract monkeys, monkeys who are only interested in lining their own pockets too.

What I am proposing is the end of career politicians and the returns of community activists and open it up for those who see it as a vocation to change society for the better and not an avenue where they can use government jets, stay in top hotels, get wined and dined in the finest restaurants and further line their own pockets. We currently have a system of politics where politicans are extremely well remunerated and seem to be completely and utterly incompetent in fixing or addressing the failings in society.

So I fail to see any semblance of credibility when you are reinforcing a system that is already a proven failure.

This is just sloganeering with no handle on reality