Shankill Bombing

[screenexile]

Begley's family holding a 25th Memorial. Why do the Shinners insist in attending these events, time to let them go.

No they are not, the Begley family said they have nothing to do with it, won't be going to it, but will be attending mass instead to pray for their son and the victims

Shinners quoted by Naomi Long on twitter as saying they are and that they will attend. either way my comment re SF and memorials still stands.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/shankill-bomber-tribute-snubbed-by-his-own-family-37459694.html

[haranguerer]

Begley's family holding a 25th Memorial. Why do the Shinners insist in attending these events, time to let them go.

No they are not, the Begley family said they have nothing to do with it, won't be going to it, but will be attending mass instead to pray for their son and the victims

Shinners quoted by Naomi Long on twitter as saying they are and that they will attend. either way my comment re SF and memorials still stands.

I'm sure they'd like to avoid these events and the scrutiny, but denying their roots and alienating republican activists would be disastrous in many ways, not least of which would be leaving a rather large hole for dissidents to exploit.

[Milltown Row2]

I remember Begley from going to Ardoyne at the weekends back in the day, I'd have said he was a corner boy at the time, though I didnt know him personally, but always thought that he'd have been an easy recruit, as many lads probably looked up to others as heros and joining up would have elevated him around the area... But I also know of people who joined for different reasons, I'm not sure why he did join but his family lost a son and have had the shame (possibly) of having a son known as a mass murder.

Drawing attention to it will only open up more wounds that don't need to be, would those other murders after the bomb happened? would someones father/son be still around today? The ripple effect from the tit for tat killings affected so many.

There was all sorts of rumours going round after the bomb, Begley had went in and shouted bomb and they grabbed him and the bomb went off, well who'd know that? As anyone that was there died, it was a faulty bomb, or the RA wanted a no warning bomb and no chance for anyone to get out.. Not one UFF member was hurt, not even close, they were not even in the building!

The same goes for every bomb planted here

It struck me years later how mad it was to be involved or put yourself in a position that would/could/will kill someone

[haranguerer]

Do you ever read what you post?

[Milltown Row2]

Do you ever read what you post?

"but denying their roots and alienating republican activists would be disastrous in many ways, not least of which would be leaving a rather large hole for dissidents to exploit"

Do you?

How many republican activists do you know? or are you talking about dissidents? The shinners not going to a memorial would mean nothing, plenty of dead IRA men have had memorials with no one other than their family at them or close friends.. I havent seen the dissidents exploit them

The topic is about the Shankill bomb.. I'm talking about someone who I knew of, and what happened around the time and after it that relates to it..

[haranguerer]

  Wtf are you on about now?

There was all sorts of rumours going round after the bomb, Begley had went in and shouted bomb and they grabbed him and the bomb went off, well who'd know that? As anyone that was there died, it was a faulty bomb, or the RA wanted a no warning bomb and no chance for anyone to get out.. Not one UFF member was hurt, not even close, they were not even in the building!

The same goes for every bomb planted here

Could you explain what 'the same goes for every bomb here' means in the context of the preceding paragraph?

You seem to have taken this personally - to reassure you, this isn't anything to do with you, or who you know, or how great you are, its about your post. My asking if you read it before posting seems a reasonable question in helping me try to make some sense of it. (And just on the shankill bomb, you should probably let Sean Kelly, for one, know that he didn't survive)

[Milltown Row2]

Wtf are you on about now?

There was all sorts of rumours going round after the bomb, Begley had went in and shouted bomb and they grabbed him and the bomb went off, well who'd know that? As anyone that was there died, it was a faulty bomb, or the RA wanted a no warning bomb and no chance for anyone to get out.. Not one UFF member was hurt, not even close, they were not even in the building!

The same goes for every bomb planted here

Could you explain what 'the same goes for every bomb here' means in the context of the preceding paragraph?

You seem to have taken this personally - to reassure you, this isn't anything to do with you, or who you know, or how great you are, its about your post. My asking if you read it before posting seems a reasonable question in helping me try to make some sense of it. (And just on the shankill bomb, you should probably let Sean Kelly, for one, know that he didn't survive)

That was for the paragraph above it, my bad! every bomb had a ripple effect, causing more hurt, suffering and death.

Sean wasnt in the building when it went off he was outside the door, Begley, to my knowledge went in with the bomb alone, the driver was in the next street.

[seafoid]

I read somewhere that an unexpected death hits about 41 people significantly. An awful lot of civilians died in NI.
The Unionists have always been a problem people. Settlers are usually paranoid. There were no rational choices in 1969 after they said no.

[Milltown Row2]

joining up would have elevated him around the area...

his family lost a son and have had the shame (possibly) of having a son known as a mass murder.

Joining up to be elevated in the area?? Do you think this guy just wanted to boost his ego? This guy, whilst carrying out a disastrous operation, risked and gave his life for something he obviously believed in and went out to wipe out the leadership of the UFF. I think its an absolute insult to call his joining a movement as some sort of ego drive.

I know of his family and I know a few of his close friends. Ashamed of him they most certainly are not. The opposite in fact.

I said possibly, and I don't know the family.. I knew of him and seen him a lot around Ardoyne.. If they are not ashamed then grand.

I now of plenty kids that joined up from school who didnt have the ideology you speak of, i also now hoods who joined up to not get a beating or shot in the knees..

[awideisneverasgood]

Begley's family holding a 25th Memorial. Why do the Shinners insist in attending these events, time to let them go.

Begley was an ordinary young man who had an extraordinary life thrusted upon him. He died because of the circumstances of growing up during a war. His family and friends have every right to remember him. He is dead. He is a victim of the vile state that created the conditions for him wanting to wipe out the UFF who murdered hundreds.

Ultimately you or nobody else has the right to tell his family whether or not they can remember and commemorate him. And the Shinners (hypocritcally in my opinion) commemorating him is also their right just as other parties lay poppies for their war dead.

He didn't die because of the circumstances he was born into, he died because he chose to transport a bomb into a busy area putting innocent lives at risk.  They didn't have any choice.

[Itchy]

joining up would have elevated him around the area...

his family lost a son and have had the shame (possibly) of having a son known as a mass murder.

Joining up to be elevated in the area?? Do you think this guy just wanted to boost his ego? This guy, whilst carrying out a disastrous operation, risked and gave his life for something he obviously believed in and went out to wipe out the leadership of the UFF. I think its an absolute insult to call his joining a movement as some sort of ego drive.

I know of his family and I know a few of his close friends. Ashamed of him they most certainly are not. The opposite in fact.

Maybe they should be, he murder a lot of innocent civilians - that is the bottom line. Republican, of which I am one, are quick to point to disgusting loyalist memorials of mass murderers of catholics. Maybe we should take a look in the mirror too.

[J70]

Begley's family holding a 25th Memorial. Why do the Shinners insist in attending these events, time to let them go.

Begley was an ordinary young man who had an extraordinary life thrusted upon him. He died because of the circumstances of growing up during a war. His family and friends have every right to remember him. He is dead. He is a victim of the vile state that created the conditions for him wanting to wipe out the UFF who murdered hundreds.

Ultimately you or nobody else has the right to tell his family whether or not they can remember and commemorate him. And the Shinners (hypocritcally in my opinion) commemorating him is also their right just as other parties lay poppies for their war dead.

He didn't die because of the circumstances he was born into, he died because he chose to transport a bomb into a busy area putting innocent lives at risk.  They didn't have any choice.

Nor did the likes of Patsy Gillespie with IRA scum holding his family hostage back home.

[trailer]

Trailer you seem like an intelligent person, warped but intelligent none the less. WOuld it be fair to say that the IRA came out of Bloody Sunday with a renewed purpose and support? So peaceful protests and walks end up with regular human beings being shot? So if you can't protest, you can't vote fairly, you can't rent a house, what exactly was your solution? Walk with cap in hand to Westminster and ask politely for the above? You would have been laughed home. It is, was and always will be the only solution to the situation at the time.

He'd rather sit in his Ivory tower and cast judgement on Irish men and women who fought just like the Irish men and women before them. His refusal to say where he is from can only be translated to an admission that he certainly isn't from the North and didn't suffer under British occupation but will cast judgement on those from afar. He believes the IRA were the cause and that those in it got out of bed to blow babies up. Amadan

Thank you for your comment. That's twice you've insulted me.
FYI I don't sit in an Ivory Tower casting judgement. I am from the North. Maybe it's me but I'm always a bit edgey when discussing the IRA and someone asks me where I live. Suppose it's a change from the IRA saying 'I know where you live'

Next time SF starts talking about Palestine or anyone talks about any conflict, I'll be sure to remind them that their opinion doesn't count as they weren't there and they shouldn't cast opinions from their "Ivory tower" (Vietnam? You wouldn't know! You weren't there man!!!)

I also loved your comment about the British being the "main protagonists" Gerry Kelly would be proud lol!

[Applesisapples]

Trailer you seem like an intelligent person, warped but intelligent none the less. WOuld it be fair to say that the IRA came out of Bloody Sunday with a renewed purpose and support? So peaceful protests and walks end up with regular human beings being shot? So if you can't protest, you can't vote fairly, you can't rent a house, what exactly was your solution? Walk with cap in hand to Westminster and ask politely for the above? You would have been laughed home. It is, was and always will be the only solution to the situation at the time.

He'd rather sit in his Ivory tower and cast judgement on Irish men and women who fought just like the Irish men and women before them. His refusal to say where he is from can only be translated to an admission that he certainly isn't from the North and didn't suffer under British occupation but will cast judgement on those from afar. He believes the IRA were the cause and that those in it got out of bed to blow babies up. Amadan

Thank you for your comment. That's twice you've insulted me.
FYI I don't sit in an Ivory Tower casting judgement. I am from the North. Maybe it's me but I'm always a bit edgey when discussing the IRA and someone asks me where I live. Suppose it's a change from the IRA saying 'I know where you live'

Next time SF starts talking about Palestine or anyone talks about any conflict, I'll be sure to remind them that their opinion doesn't count as they weren't there and they shouldn't cast opinions from their "Ivory tower" (Vietnam? You wouldn't know! You weren't there man!!!)

I also loved your comment about the British being the "main protagonists" Gerry Kelly would be proud lol!

The British certainly created the circumsatnces, but if you were looking for a main protagonist it would surely be the Unionist Parliament at Stormont.

[Therealdonald]

joining up would have elevated him around the area...

his family lost a son and have had the shame (possibly) of having a son known as a mass murder.

Joining up to be elevated in the area?? Do you think this guy just wanted to boost his ego? This guy, whilst carrying out a disastrous operation, risked and gave his life for something he obviously believed in and went out to wipe out the leadership of the UFF. I think its an absolute insult to call his joining a movement as some sort of ego drive.

I know of his family and I know a few of his close friends. Ashamed of him they most certainly are not. The opposite in fact.

Maybe they should be, he murder a lot of innocent civilians - that is the bottom line. Republican, of which I am one, are quick to point to disgusting loyalist memorials of mass murderers of catholics. Maybe we should take a look in the mirror too.

But is it not case that the IRA didn't intentionally kill civilians 95% of the time? The targets of their shootings/bombings were for the most part security forces or Paramilitaries? There are obvious glaring exceptions like Enniskillen, but for the most part they didn't go for Civilians. Likely opening myself up to the Anti-brigade here but whatever. Someone said above about how a person was shot through the window after the Shankill bomb and he in fact turned out to be a protestant, there's not too many examples of this on the other side.