Presidential Election Vote

[snoopdog]

I dont really believe that Casey or alot of his voters are racist.  Like i dont believe in the sterotype on travellers. However the housing issue in tipp and looking for free land did them no favours. Especially when others are on housing lists living in hotel rooms or struggling to pay a mortgage. Why do ww pay higher mortgage interest rates than or european neighbours? This is a problem created by the lack of ability from the govt. They are the ones who need a shake up from the ballot box. Put the only problem there is the crowd that would benefit are those that brought the xountry to its knees.

[seafoid]

The existence of crooks in the cabinet is no reason to tolerate other people sponging off the system. It is like saying that because there are murderers that you needn't worry about burglaries. Both are wrong.

If you talk to sociologists the problem is social exclusion . Niamh Hourigan wrote a book about Moyross called Understanding Limerick. Putting people on social welfare is not good enough anywhere. Social exclusion is insidious. Big issue in NI as well.

Disadvantaged families come in 2 flavours. Advantaged of the disadvantaged and disadvantaged  squared. The latter group provides content for the Indo. The social problems they generate can be inter generational.
The Irish State is very poor at managing this risk.

The Public Sector is a long way from excellence and a big part of the problem. The crisis exposed an awful lot of incompetence.  How are projects managed. How is spending monitored. There is an awful lot of shite.

In 2011 or so the teachers voted to cut salaries for new teachers instead of their own. Everyone for themselves. The legal system is rotten . And then you have casino financing of government spending.

If you wanted to fix the social welfare issue the public services and legal system would need to be rebooted and disadvantaged squared would need to be addressed properly and become a core focus of public policy.  It is a lot less glamorous than signing guarantees or dying for Ireland.

"to get the government they have now, I wouldn't have lost a night's sleep."  Dan Breen

[stephenite]

Shocking result for the Shinners

[Hardy]

And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.

That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!

[seafoid]

I dont really believe that Casey or alot of his voters are racist.  Like i dont believe in the sterotype on travellers. However the housing issue in tipp and looking for free land did them no favours. Especially when others are on housing lists living in hotel rooms or struggling to pay a mortgage. Why do ww pay higher mortgage interest rates than or european neighbours? This is a problem created by the lack of ability from the govt. They are the ones who need a shake up from the ballot box. Put the only problem there is the crowd that would benefit are those that brought the xountry to its knees.

Mortgage rates are higher so banks can rebuild their balance sheets after the crisis that they caused. Property prices are high to suit the banks as well. Otherwise they would be in trouble.
High property prices lead to high rents. This is linked to homelessness. Vulture funds have recently been sold non performing mortgages. It is a big mess.

[Franko]

And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.

That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!

I don't disagree at all but I think it's important to answer... Who are 'they'? 

Is it the politicians?  If so, at what level of politics do you move from being a 'we' to a 'they'.

Is it the banks?  How far up the scale do you have to be in a bank to become a 'they'?

Is it big business in general?  If so, what does your turnover have to be before you stop being a 'we'?

Is it the wealthy people?  How much do you have to be worth to become a 'they'?

The reason that people don't understand orders of magnitude is because it's not tangible to them.  It's the same here.  People don't know who they are.  Who do I blame for this?  How do I stop them doing it again?  How can these questions be answered when nobody can tell them who 'they' are.  Show me some proof and give me some names.

Now, those travellers in that new transit who stole a chainsaw from Paddy's shed and started a fight in the pub... I know who they are and I don't like them.  And this guy here says he doesn't like them either.  So I'm going to vote for him.

[Tubberman]

And the populism agenda wins again. Casey has this forum debating the behaviour of travellers and welfare abusers as if that was the big problem facing the nation. As seafoid says, people are bad at numbers. We don't get the difference between first order and second order effects. We don't understand orders of magnitude.

That's what allows the productivity/wages ratio to multiply obscenely in the space of a generation – we watch them robbing us because we listen and believe them when they tell us that the big problem is travellers and a few little people fiddling the dole. That's what gives us Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen. And Peter Casey FFS!

I don't disagree at all but I think it's important to answer... Who are 'they'? 

Is it the politicians?  If so, at what level of politics do you move from being a 'we' to a 'they'.

Is it the banks?  How far up the scale do you have to be in a bank to become a 'they'?

Is it big business in general?  If so, what does your turnover have to be before you stop being a 'we'?

Is it the wealthy people?  How much do you have to be worth to become a 'they'?

The reason that people don't understand orders of magnitude is because it's not tangible to them.  It's the same here.  People don't know who they are.  Who do I blame for this?  How do I stop them doing it again?  How can these questions be answered when nobody can tell them who 'they' are.  Show me some proof and give me some names.

Now, those travellers in that new transit who stole a chainsaw from Paddy's shed and started a fight in the pub... I know who they are and I don't like them.  And this guy here says he doesn't like them either.  So I'm going to vote for him.

Well put

[Farrandeelin]

Yes well put by franko. I voted for Casey, on the basis the Taoiseach told him to quit and people not to vote for him. Wasn't going to give the dragons anything. Is Leo one of 'those'?  It was an anti-establishment vote. Are the establishment 'they'? If that's not an anti-establishment vote, then what is?

[Rossfan]

Shocking result for the Shinners

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/presidential-election/fionnn-sheahan-marylou-the-biggest-loser-as-contenders-fail-to-ignite-37463983.html

[Syferus]

Yes well put by franko. I voted for Casey, on the basis the Taoiseach told him to quit and people not to vote for him. Wasn't going to give the dragons anything. Is Leo one of 'those'?  It was an anti-establishment vote. Are the establishment 'they'? If that's not an anti-establishment vote, then what is?

Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements because you're annoyed and ignoring the implications is the fast way to ending up like all the rest of the late capitalism western democracies that are going through a vaguely or overtly xenophobic mid-life crisis.

I really cannot fathom how you witnessed a wave of far right fascism in the US, UK and Europe and still figured it was defendable to vote for Peter fûcking Casey. You're the problem because you're exactly the sort of person who should know better.

[armaghniac]

Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements

Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?

[Syferus]

Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements

Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?

Not surprising to see you here.

[armaghniac]

Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements

Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?

Not surprising to see you here.

With quick responses like that you should run for President yourself.
Maybe, you'd answer my question though.

[Syferus]

Voting for a candidate who is making openly racist statements

Which race did he make statements about, other than the Presidential race?

Not surprising to see you here.

With quick responses like that you should run for President yourself.
Maybe, you'd answer my question though.

No.

[Rossfan]

Shinners very quiet today 
Pearse Doherty smiling quietly I suspect.