Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 76622 times)

BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 07:09:05 PM »
I honestly think unionists would be treating very well under a UI. Because anytime they appear on rte, they lick their asses. Poor Orangemen can't get marching and showing their culture... That's the type of stuff I've heard from people in the south.

It's irrelevant though because it'll never happen. North and South people have two different mindsets, and have drifted in opposite directions.

I used to wish for a UI but what does it mean really? Some shower of inbred aristocrats and bankers will rule us and dictate every aspect of our lives no matter what side of the border we're on. It's all a fantasy.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 07:15:22 PM »
As I outlined here some years ago - when the Referenda are held and passed ( around 2040??) in the 26 and 6  we'll more than likely end up with a new All Ireland political entity "Irish Confederation". Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont will look after "Internal affairs" in the 2 "Semi Autonomous Regions" ( present day 6 and 26 Cos ) while the new "Congress" of the Confederation will look after major matters/foreign affairs etc.
People in the 6 Cos will still be able to have British citizenship ( whether automatically or have to apply will be a matter for the British government - if Britain still exists of course) if they so wish. One of the Windsor Family will be allocated as Prince or Princess for those folks.
I expect we'll have a bland new Anthem and flag, probably a new Capital of the Confederation - Athlone or Armagh I would suggest.
Some kind of 3 person Presidency with perhaps some Executive powers may be set up ( One from the 26, one from each "tribe" in the North).
In the meantime it would help if the likes of SF, SDLP, FF, FG, Labour etc had even one line in their policy documents as to what they'd at least like the new All Ireland set up to look like.
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LCohen

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 07:21:57 PM »
As I outlined here some years ago - when the Referenda are held and passed ( around 2040??) in the 26 and 6  we'll more than likely end up with a new All Ireland political entity "Irish Confederation". Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont will look after "Internal affairs" in the 2 "Semi Autonomous Regions" ( present day 6 and 26 Cos ) while the new "Congress" of the Confederation will look after major matters/foreign affairs etc.
People in the 6 Cos will still be able to have British citizenship ( whether automatically or have to apply will be a matter for the British government - if Britain still exists of course) if they so wish. One of the Windsor Family will be allocated as Prince or Princess for those folks.
I expect we'll have a bland new Anthem and flag, probably a new Capital of the Confederation - Athlone or Armagh I would suggest.
Some kind of 3 person Presidency with perhaps some Executive powers may be set up ( One from the 26, one from each "tribe" in the North).
In the meantime it would help if the likes of SF, SDLP, FF, FG, Labour etc had even one line in their policy documents as to what they'd at least like the new All Ireland set up to look like.


I'm not sure that it would help.

As why they don't have something like that already - the southern parties see an United Ireland as something they would facilitate if the people wanted it. They are not going to get too involved until a NI referendum is triggered and a yes vote likely. That is many, many years down the line if ever

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 09:14:44 PM »
Honestly think the Cultural differences between Northern and Southern nationalists would be difficult to reconcile without throwing unionists into the mix,at this stage.Gerry Fitt wasn't wrong all those years ago when he said he had more in common with an Ulster prod than a Cork Catholic.

LCohen

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2015, 09:16:40 PM »
Honestly think the Cultural differences between Northern and Southern nationalists would be difficult to reconcile without throwing unionists into the mix,at this stage.Gerry Fitt wasn't wrong all those years ago when he said he had more in common with an Ulster prod than a Cork Catholic.
Yes anything that didn't at the very least "throw unionists into the mix" will be difficult to reconcile

rrhf

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2015, 09:56:28 PM »
I think the South might be in trouble here.  The people in the new Southern statelet have struggled to define themselves and perhaps it has veered from being an alcohol, governmental and religiously controlled place to corruption and anarchy and internationally subservient. At least  Northern Unionists and Nationalists both have rich solid identities of which they are proud of.  Genetically the south probably need both of us down there to give a sense of direction and leadership and pride in oneself again, If we ever decide we want to let them in, we would need it renamed and it would obviously need to have more Northern than Southern influence..
Would it be called the United Kingdom of Northern and Southern Ireland.   
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 09:58:57 PM by rrhf »

An Watcher

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2015, 10:00:29 PM »
Would there ever be a situation whereby the brits would give up the north? It's bound to have crossed their minds with the problems it causes them. Self Inflicted of course. Some crying from the unionists then. Can't see it happening but how fantastic would that be!

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2015, 10:08:08 PM »
It would be great and it actually has more chance of happening under a Sinn Fein Irish government.  How likely is that though?

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2015, 10:08:29 PM »
Honestly think the Cultural differences between Northern and Southern nationalists would be difficult to reconcile without throwing unionists into the mix,at this stage.Gerry Fitt wasn't wrong all those years ago when he said he had more in common with an Ulster prod than a Cork Catholic.

So, explain some of these cultural differences between someone from Lisnaskea and Lispole? What would be an example of this?



Quote
It would be great and it actually has more chance of happening under a Sinn Fein Irish government.  How likely is that though?


It has no chance of happening under an SF government, as they have zero capacity to resolve the economic issues involved.
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winghalfback

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2015, 10:24:41 PM »
I'm thinking that there will be tough pills to swallow on both sides. Its up to nationalists and republicans to encourage unionists to think about a 32 county Ireland. I think the things like flag, national anthem personal identity would be things where compromise would have to be made. A new flag, a different flag, a more inclusive national anthem something along the lines of the rugby I would assume. I can envisage something like a federal Ireland like something muted before in a previous comment. Possibly 4 states run by their separate councils ie. Ulster Munster Leinster Connaught and a Federal Government run out of somewhere that makes the bigger calls. Possibly a way out of the British identity problem would be for the new country to join the commonwealth in a way anyone who wanted to claim allegiance to lizzie could apply for their brit passport.
As for economy we have a first class agriculture structure one of the best in the world we have some of the best engineering companies in the world, corporation tax would have to be discussed and obviously things would have to be a lot tighter than I have stated. Education and health being run as one entity each is bound to be an advantage instead on 2 health services and 2 education systems on this island.
In my view religion should have no bearing on this as there are so many religious denominations everyone has their own view or no view on it.
Its a massive discussion lots to discuss many people will have differing opinions on it that's the whole beauty of the debate no one is totally right on it.
As for the unionists they would have a great say in the running of the country as they would win plenty of votes in an election on both sides. BUT the decision has to be made by civic society by the community groups the various organisations around the country all have to have their input into it. I suppose this is just another avenue for the discussion.

winghalfback

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2015, 10:26:55 PM »
Would there ever be a situation whereby the brits would give up the north? It's bound to have crossed their minds with the problems it causes them. Self Inflicted of course. Some crying from the unionists then. Can't see it happening but how fantastic would that be!

I genuinely don't believe they want it, its a noose around their neck, only for northern unionists I think they would have got rid of it long ago.

laoislad

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2015, 10:29:01 PM »
I'm thinking that there will be tough pills to swallow on both sides. Its up to nationalists and republicans to encourage unionists to think about a 32 county Ireland. I think the things like flag, national anthem personal identity would be things where compromise would have to be made. A new flag, a different flag, a more inclusive national anthem something along the lines of the rugby I would assume. I can envisage something like a federal Ireland like something muted before in a previous comment. Possibly 4 states run by their separate councils ie. Ulster Munster Leinster Connaught and a Federal Government run out of somewhere that makes the bigger calls. Possibly a way out of the British identity problem would be for the new country to join the commonwealth in a way anyone who wanted to claim allegiance to lizzie could apply for their brit passport.
As for economy we have a first class agriculture structure one of the best in the world we have some of the best engineering companies in the world, corporation tax would have to be discussed and obviously things would have to be a lot tighter than I have stated. Education and health being run as one entity each is bound to be an advantage instead on 2 health services and 2 education systems on this island.
In my view religion should have no bearing on this as there are so many religious denominations everyone has their own view or no view on it.
Its a massive discussion lots to discuss many people will have differing opinions on it that's the whole beauty of the debate no one is totally right on it.
As for the unionists they would have a great say in the running of the country as they would win plenty of votes in an election on both sides. BUT the decision has to be made by civic society by the community groups the various organisations around the country all have to have their input into it. I suppose this is just another avenue for the discussion.
Seems like a lot of effort.
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Farrandeelin

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2015, 10:43:25 PM »
What sort of flag though? Cross of St. Patrick perhaps? Or is that too 'unionist' because it's represented on the union flag itself?
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BennyCake

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2015, 10:57:14 PM »
Lately I've been thinking about what the Irish anthem and tri colour mean to me. Less and less to be honest. Like the Union flag, it's a divisive thing, used and abused by some to annoy others.

I was always a keen supporter of the flag and anthem at GAa matches. Now I'm not. It's not because banning them would entice more unionists to support GAA. I just feel there's no need for them. It's a political thing and should have no place in sport. There are better ways to represent our Irishness; music, dance, language, literature.

muppet

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2015, 11:46:16 PM »
I think the South might be in trouble here.  The people in the new Southern statelet have struggled to define themselves and perhaps it has veered from being an alcohol, governmental and religiously controlled place to corruption and anarchy and internationally subservient. At least  Northern Unionists and Nationalists both have rich solid identities of which they are proud of.  Genetically the south probably need both of us down there to give a sense of direction and leadership and pride in oneself again, If we ever decide we want to let them in, we would need it renamed and it would obviously need to have more Northern than Southern influence..
Would it be called the United Kingdom of Northern and Southern Ireland.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Genius.

I particularly love the bit where we need you 'genetically' to give 'leadership and pride'. I couldn't agree more.

I think Martin McGuinness should genetically mate with Gerry Adams for that very reason. The more little Merry McAdams we have the better.
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