The IRISH RUGBY thread

Started by Donnellys Hollow, October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

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LCohen

The Welsh FA pour over team sheets from English club fixtures looking for players with Welsh sounding surnames. They approach these guys to see if they might qualify for Wales and whether they have any interest in playing for Wales. They got to a European Semi final with a lot of boys recruited by that means. Is it legitimate?

seafoid

I think it was a mark of the level of excellence achieved by the team, no different to KK a few years ago or the Dubs now.
They are a tribute to Irish sport.

As Dan Shanahan said one time it is a privilege to be playing against Cork and Tipp .. and bating them.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Donnellys Hollow

Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:35:50 PM
I honestly don't know but few other other sports define nationality so loosely. Cricket possibly.

Personally I don't think Aki, Stander or Van der Flier should be playing in a green jersey. They aren't Irish and have no bloodline connection with the country. Other than being bought by a provincial side to make a living here, they would be lining out for their own countries.

However those are the rules even if I strongly disagree with them.

There's Seán Brady going in, what dya think Seán?

bennydorano

McKenna produces some very good articles, I think sometimes he takes a pointedly contrarian view on a subject and then begins writing these particular articles, those are the ones that invariably fail imo.

LCohen

#7324
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 18, 2018, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:35:50 PM
I honestly don't know but few other other sports define nationality so loosely. Cricket possibly.

Personally I don't think Aki, Stander or Van der Flier should be playing in a green jersey. They aren't Irish and have no bloodline connection with the country. Other than being bought by a provincial side to make a living here, they would be lining out for their own countries.

However those are the rules even if I strongly disagree with them.






https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nC7s17K2uMY

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 18, 2018, 08:28:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 18, 2018, 06:07:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 18, 2018, 01:10:12 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 18, 2018, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 18, 2018, 10:56:49 AM
Am I wrong in thinking Rory Best is a weak link in that team?

Only in the minds of some Leinster and Munster people.

Cronin has some extra speed but his line outs last night prevented Ireland putting up quite a score on NZ.

Best is still the best option in terms of experience, all round game and leadership.  Look how many times he was into the ruck with O'Mahoney, how well he led the scrum and how he took the right decisions for the team.

When Sexton, he who would be captain, wanted to go again for the line out at the end of the first half, Best told him to take the score, impetuous Sexton wasn't pleased but those 3 points made it a two score game for a long time and made it more difficult for NZ.  That's what you get with Best, he may not be the best hooker but he brings much more to the team than Cronin, Scannell or Herring.

Fair play to Toner on last nights performance given being out of favour as first choice for a while.



I wouldn't know much about lineouts but it seemed to me that Cronin threw the ball exactly where he was supposed to for both lineouts that were lost. In both cases, NZ out-jumped the receiver, which wasn't happening when Toner and O'Mahony were on.

I don't know much about being a rugby captain either and leadership is an intangible concept, but Best seems to have it in abundance and more than his rivals for the hooker position. If it were not for that I'd say Cronin would be the first choice.

So by your own admission, you don't know much
???
Am I missing something?
I see nowt wrong with what Hardy observations here. Dunno about Cronin being first choice but the rest is spot on.

So if Best throws them he'd be throwing them to the right place?  And those in the line out don't catch them?

I don't think Ireland are great at line outs regardless of Toner or not. But Best isn't just there to do lineouts, but most of what you said is right, you don't know much  ;)
Geez, what am I to make of that? Best is also the pack leader and for anyone on the sideline, it can be difficult to know what goes on out on the field at times but Best fits the job description to a tee- he never goes up exhorting his colleagues and he leads from the front- all the time. Best certainly isn't just there to throw in the ball. He does an above average job at that and at every other facet of the game as well.
However, I don't see any point in nit picking or ballbagging either.
It was an historic win and let's just take it for what it's worth.

This was about Hardys post admitting he knew nothing lineouts etc... while at the same time giving an opinion on having Best on the team! Clearly more intelligent people on the sport (the manager) feel he's more important and a better player overall than the other replacements..

This is a result business and Ireland are number 2 beating the number 1 team if he was wrong and results went against him he'd know about it! Plus people with limited knowledge (like myself btw) will look at Best as the weak link!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

yellowcard

Quote from: Armaghtothebone on November 18, 2018, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:18:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 18, 2018, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 07:52:02 PM
Those claiming that McKenna is a tit, an idiot, a ball bag and a clown are only doing so because they disagree with him. Which is fine. However McKenna is an excellent journalist and whilst I don't always agree with him, he never takes the populist approach and is willing to ask the hard questions that a proper journalist should. Some people mightn't always like this as it is human nature to want to join in with the team that is winning but the likes of McKenna and Kimmage are rarely ever too far off the mark either.

Rather than attack McKenna with personal insults it would be better if the points he raised were dissected and debunked where relevant. It's easy to join in with the mob and particularly in the aftermath of a victory like last nights but it doesn't make some of the points that he made in last weeks article any less relevant.

Post 7327

Fair enough, that was one of his points and one I would disagree with him on. But it's not enough for me to think he is an idiot either.

He did make some other good points about player welfare, player nationality and the medicalisation of the sport that media and former players ever rarely get asked about.


For players nationally, is he consistent across all sports?

I honestly don't know but few other other sports define nationality so loosely. Cricket possibly.

Personally I don't think Aki, Stander or Van der Flier should be playing in a green jersey. They aren't Irish and have no bloodline connection with the country. Other than being bought by a provincial side to make a living here, they would be lining out for their own countries.

However those are the rules even if I strongly disagree with them.

Josh van der Flier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_van_der_Flier

You twat

Fair enough Van der Flier is Irish so, easy mistake.

Doesn't make the nationality argument any less relevant though.

Milltown Row2

Easy to make? If they ain't called O'Toole eh ;D
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

LCohen

Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:49:42 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on November 18, 2018, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 08:18:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 18, 2018, 07:56:14 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 18, 2018, 07:52:02 PM
Those claiming that McKenna is a tit, an idiot, a ball bag and a clown are only doing so because they disagree with him. Which is fine. However McKenna is an excellent journalist and whilst I don't always agree with him, he never takes the populist approach and is willing to ask the hard questions that a proper journalist should. Some people mightn't always like this as it is human nature to want to join in with the team that is winning but the likes of McKenna and Kimmage are rarely ever too far off the mark either.

Rather than attack McKenna with personal insults it would be better if the points he raised were dissected and debunked where relevant. It's easy to join in with the mob and particularly in the aftermath of a victory like last nights but it doesn't make some of the points that he made in last weeks article any less relevant.

Post 7327

Fair enough, that was one of his points and one I would disagree with him on. But it's not enough for me to think he is an idiot either.

He did make some other good points about player welfare, player nationality and the medicalisation of the sport that media and former players ever rarely get asked about.


For players nationally, is he consistent across all sports?

I honestly don't know but few other other sports define nationality so loosely. Cricket possibly.

Personally I don't think Aki, Stander or Van der Flier should be playing in a green jersey. They aren't Irish and have no bloodline connection with the country. Other than being bought by a provincial side to make a living here, they would be lining out for their own countries.

However those are the rules even if I strongly disagree with them.

Josh van der Flier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_van_der_Flier

You twat

Fair enough Van der Flier is Irish so, easy mistake.

Doesn't make the nationality argument any less relevant though.

Maybe McKenna should interview Brent Cockbain about the legitimacy of his Welsh caps. Could be interesting

Hardy

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 18, 2018, 08:28:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 18, 2018, 06:07:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2018, 01:19:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on November 18, 2018, 01:10:12 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on November 18, 2018, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 18, 2018, 10:56:49 AM
Am I wrong in thinking Rory Best is a weak link in that team?

Only in the minds of some Leinster and Munster people.

Cronin has some extra speed but his line outs last night prevented Ireland putting up quite a score on NZ.

Best is still the best option in terms of experience, all round game and leadership.  Look how many times he was into the ruck with O'Mahoney, how well he led the scrum and how he took the right decisions for the team.

When Sexton, he who would be captain, wanted to go again for the line out at the end of the first half, Best told him to take the score, impetuous Sexton wasn't pleased but those 3 points made it a two score game for a long time and made it more difficult for NZ.  That's what you get with Best, he may not be the best hooker but he brings much more to the team than Cronin, Scannell or Herring.

Fair play to Toner on last nights performance given being out of favour as first choice for a while.



I wouldn't know much about lineouts but it seemed to me that Cronin threw the ball exactly where he was supposed to for both lineouts that were lost. In both cases, NZ out-jumped the receiver, which wasn't happening when Toner and O'Mahony were on.

I don't know much about being a rugby captain either and leadership is an intangible concept, but Best seems to have it in abundance and more than his rivals for the hooker position. If it were not for that I'd say Cronin would be the first choice.

So by your own admission, you don't know much
???
Am I missing something?
I see nowt wrong with what Hardy observations here. Dunno about Cronin being first choice but the rest is spot on.

So if Best throws them he'd be throwing them to the right place?  And those in the line out don't catch them?

I don't think Ireland are great at line outs regardless of Toner or not. But Best isn't just there to do lineouts, but most of what you said is right, you don't know much  ;)
Geez, what am I to make of that? Best is also the pack leader and for anyone on the sideline, it can be difficult to know what goes on out on the field at times but Best fits the job description to a tee- he never goes up exhorting his colleagues and he leads from the front- all the time. Best certainly isn't just there to throw in the ball. He does an above average job at that and at every other facet of the game as well.
However, I don't see any point in nit picking or ballbagging either.
It was an historic win and let's just take it for what it's worth.

This was about Hardys post admitting he knew nothing lineouts etc... while at the same time giving an opinion on having Best on the team! Clearly more intelligent people on the sport (the manager) feel he's more important and a better player overall than the other replacements..

This is a result business and Ireland are number 2 beating the number 1 team if he was wrong and results went against him he'd know about it! Plus people with limited knowledge (like myself btw) will look at Best as the weak link!

How did you think this was going to go when you started?

Itchy

If that game should not be considered a friendly and should instead be considered a very important test match, Can someone explain to me why Ireland often win these test matches yet fail so miserably in world cups so far. I read someone saying that will be most important match before the world cup which to me is just nonsense. No trophy was handed out and surely, for example, a winner takes all game for example hrs England for grand slam would be more important. Strikes me rugby over hypes the shite out of every game, there are warriors everywhere etc etc. As someone said there are 10 odd top teams in the world and the fact it took 100 years for one to beat another says more about Ireland than anything. It was a great win, enthralling game but for f**k sake take a chill pill and stop hyping it up to something it's not.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2018, 09:05:41 PM
If that game should not be considered a friendly and should instead be considered a very important test match, Can someone explain to me why Ireland often win these test matches yet fail so miserably in world cups so far. I read someone saying that will be most important match before the world cup which to me is just nonsense. No trophy was handed out and surely, for example, a winner takes all game for example hrs England for grand slam would be more important. Strikes me rugby over hypes the shite out of every game, there are warriors everywhere etc etc. As someone said there are 10 odd top teams in the world and the fact it took 100 years for one to beat another says more about Ireland than anything. It was a great win, enthralling game but for f**k sake take a chill pill and stop hyping it up to something it's not.

It's a measure of where you are in the pecking order and beating the best means you are at the very least competitive, Ireland have not had good tournament management that includes depth of squad and having the luxury of resting players and having a fully fit squad! And you need serious luck also
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Itchy

One other thing. Just because rugby tells you November is in Autumn doesn't mean it is!!

LCohen

Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2018, 09:14:18 PM
One other thing. Just because rugby tells you November is in Autumn doesn't mean it is!!

What season is it?

LCohen

Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2018, 09:05:41 PM
If that game should not be considered a friendly and should instead be considered a very important test match, Can someone explain to me why Ireland often win these test matches yet fail so miserably in world cups so far. I read someone saying that will be most important match before the world cup which to me is just nonsense. No trophy was handed out and surely, for example, a winner takes all game for example hrs England for grand slam would be more important. Strikes me rugby over hypes the shite out of every game, there are warriors everywhere etc etc. As someone said there are 10 odd top teams in the world and the fact it took 100 years for one to beat another says more about Ireland than anything. It was a great win, enthralling game but for f**k sake take a chill pill and stop hyping it up to something it's not.

It's not a friendly because the game places so much significance on the game.

Historically we have not only struggled to win World Cup quarterfinals but also to beat Southern Hemisphere top tier countries in Autumn Internationals. The latter has now changed and the last 2 or 3 RWCs have been even more frustrating. Injuries were a big thing the last time but we have a big hurdle to get over next year

It was me who contended that yesterday's game was the most important game until the 2019 RWC q/f. If we are in the trenches in the RWC and in need of that bit extra where do you think players and management will be going to for evidence to build self belief to strive for that but extra? Possibly last night? I think so