Things that make you go What the F**k?

[Tony Baloney]

Same with the boy on the Ravenhill road, Belfast, who killed two people drunk driving. Hugely lenient I would have thought. I think he was 2 or 3 years?

3 years in jail, I think the same on licence and then deportation to Romania at the end of his jail sentence so the licence period would be irrelevant.

Not irrelevant or a ground to increase the sentence though, consistency will be needed to ensure justice.

I have never seen why there is a difference between death by dangerous driving and manslaughter. The former seems to carry a much lower tariff. if getting pissed and killing someone with your car isn't "unintentional killing through an unlawful act" I don't know what is.

[Armagh18]

Can't understand why it wasn't a murder charge, them lads deliberately stalked that man. And why is 50% remission still in force  here. Do the crime, do the time, 3and 4 yrs for (I call it murder, not manslaughter) is shocking. But this place long by normal. Sentencing guidelines like everything else needs serious overhaul!

It wasn't murder because the prosecution need to prove an intention to kill or do really serious harm. In this case the prosecution knew they couldn't do that which is often the case so the offence had to be manslaughter. 50% remission no longer applies in Northern Ireland for any sentence of 12 months or more. Murder carries an automatic life sentence manslaughter does not. Given the plethora of ways Manslaughter can be committed it's hard to have any real definitive guidelines on it.

Would someone who killed an intruder in self defence be charged with the same then depending on level of force used? That really doesn't sit right with me, I think those lads knew what they were doing and maybe they didnt intend to kill him but definitely intended to do serious harm. Then going back the next day to him still lying in the same spot and not raising the alarm.

[Armagh18]

Same with the boy on the Ravenhill road, Belfast, who killed two people drunk driving. Hugely lenient I would have thought. I think he was 2 or 3 years?

3 years in jail, I think the same on licence and then deportation to Romania at the end of his jail sentence so the licence period would be irrelevant.

Not irrelevant or a ground to increase the sentence though, consistency will be needed to ensure justice.

I have never seen why there is a difference between death by dangerous driving and manslaughter. The former seems to carry a much lower tariff. if getting pissed and killing someone with your car isn't "unintentional killing through an unlawful act" I don't know what is.

Agreed

[seafoid]

Can't understand why it wasn't a murder charge, them lads deliberately stalked that man. And why is 50% remission still in force  here. Do the crime, do the time, 3and 4 yrs for (I call it murder, not manslaughter) is shocking. But this place long by normal. Sentencing guidelines like everything else needs serious overhaul!

It wasn't murder because the prosecution need to prove an intention to kill or do really serious harm. In this case the prosecution knew they couldn't do that which is often the case so the offence had to be manslaughter. 50% remission no longer applies in Northern Ireland for any sentence of 12 months or more. Murder carries an automatic life sentence manslaughter does not. Given the plethora of ways Manslaughter can be committed it's hard to have any real definitive guidelines on it.

Manslaughter sounds like US Justice Potter Stewart's test in 1964 on hard core pornography: "I know it when I see it."

[David McKeown]

Same with the boy on the Ravenhill road, Belfast, who killed two people drunk driving. Hugely lenient I would have thought. I think he was 2 or 3 years?

3 years in jail, I think the same on licence and then deportation to Romania at the end of his jail sentence so the licence period would be irrelevant.

Not irrelevant or a ground to increase the sentence though, consistency will be needed to ensure justice.

I have never seen why there is a difference between death by dangerous driving and manslaughter. The former seems to carry a much lower tariff. if getting pissed and killing someone with your car isn't "unintentional killing through an unlawful act" I don't know what is.

I don't think it is anymore. There's been a real increase in tariffs for death by dangerous in recent years whilst the range for manslaughter is widening. Both though will turn heavily on the facts.

[David McKeown]

Can't understand why it wasn't a murder charge, them lads deliberately stalked that man. And why is 50% remission still in force  here. Do the crime, do the time, 3and 4 yrs for (I call it murder, not manslaughter) is shocking. But this place long by normal. Sentencing guidelines like everything else needs serious overhaul!

It wasn't murder because the prosecution need to prove an intention to kill or do really serious harm. In this case the prosecution knew they couldn't do that which is often the case so the offence had to be manslaughter. 50% remission no longer applies in Northern Ireland for any sentence of 12 months or more. Murder carries an automatic life sentence manslaughter does not. Given the plethora of ways Manslaughter can be committed it's hard to have any real definitive guidelines on it.

Would someone who killed an intruder in self defence be charged with the same then depending on level of force used? That really doesn't sit right with me, I think those lads knew what they were doing and maybe they didnt intend to kill him but definitely intended to do serious harm. Then going back the next day to him still lying in the same spot and not raising the alarm.

Well I don't really know the facts of this case but an intention to commit really serious harm as opposed to simply harm can be very difficult to prove. Going back the day after isn't relevant to a proving what the intention was at the time of the initial attack.

[David McKeown]

Can't understand why it wasn't a murder charge, them lads deliberately stalked that man. And why is 50% remission still in force  here. Do the crime, do the time, 3and 4 yrs for (I call it murder, not manslaughter) is shocking. But this place long by normal. Sentencing guidelines like everything else needs serious overhaul!

It wasn't murder because the prosecution need to prove an intention to kill or do really serious harm. In this case the prosecution knew they couldn't do that which is often the case so the offence had to be manslaughter. 50% remission no longer applies in Northern Ireland for any sentence of 12 months or more. Murder carries an automatic life sentence manslaughter does not. Given the plethora of ways Manslaughter can be committed it's hard to have any real definitive guidelines on it.

Would someone who killed an intruder in self defence be charged with the same then depending on level of force used? That really doesn't sit right with me, I think those lads knew what they were doing and maybe they didnt intend to kill him but definitely intended to do serious harm. Then going back the next day to him still lying in the same spot and not raising the alarm.

Defence of property is a bit of a controversial one. Following the Tony Martin case the UK inserted a section into the Criminal Justice and immigration Act that allowed homeowners to use force that was not grossly disproportionate to defend their property. So killing an intruder either in self defence or in defence of property would now rarely result in a prosecution at all.

[Wildweasel74]

Far as I see, the law not about justice for persons killed, but multi options to reduce sentencing. Man slaughter should be a case where somebody accidentally killed. Even when these lads knew the man was dead, they didn't report it and denied all, to manslaughter was offered. The fact that they done nothing, hoped to get off with it, and denied it, up to the last second, should be criteria for increasing sentencing.

[seafoid]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/maghera-manslaughter-sentences-could-be-referred-to-court-of-appeal-by-the-pps-42282351.html

[Saffrongael]

Reading a report on the ex Charlton footballer Richard Rufus who was jailed for 7 and a half years for scamming people in a ponzi scheme, mitigation in sentencing was his "Christian faith"............Even though he scammed the church he was attached to.

[imtommygunn]

Just read that very thing. 7.5 million he scammed. sc**bag.

[J70]

WTF does "christian faith" have to do with anything?

Has someone demonstrated a correlation and causation between Christianity (or indeed any religious faith) and morality and good character?

[trailer]

WTF does "christian faith" have to do with anything?

Has someone demonstrated a correlation and causation between Christianity (or indeed any religious faith) and morality and good character?

Closer people are to their "god" the bigger the ****.

[David McKeown]

Far as I see, the law not about justice for persons kilked but multi options to reduce sentencing. Man slaughter should be a case where somebody accidentally killed. Even when these lads knew the man was dead they didn't report it and denied all to manslaughter was offered. The fact that they done nothing, hoped to get off with it, and denied it, up to the last second, should be criteria for increasing sentencing.

Those things will have been aggravating factors. All I'm saying is that the offence is too wide to have anymore prescriptive sentencing.

[Truth hurts]

WTF is going on in Lurgan?