Things that make you go What the F**k?

[imtommygunn]

When you start to bring things like NHS and housing into it then they aren't.

The why not stay in France etc is different yes.

[Tony Baloney]

Immigration in the uk is a big bogey man. It's not immigrants fault the nhs is chronically underfunded - it's governments. Uk wide at present it is currently the most corrupt government on record. I don't think here we are much better with the "big two" either. Look at rhi, red sky etc etc. Politicians are unaccountable for anything they do and then immigrants and dole seekers get the blame for being a drain on society when they cost a fraction of what is , let's be honest, outright corruption.

People would ask where the money would come from to fund these things. Well billions upon billions are being wasted.

More than one thing can be true at the same time. It is an irrefutable fact that if you have more people demanding a resource than the supply can sustain you will have major issues. An element of that demand comes from people not born in the country. People always blame underresourcing but the people in the NHS never like to advertise their woeful mismanagement of resources. Too many people, Covid, mismanagement and Tory underfunding are all factors.

[imtommygunn]

Excessive middle management is a huge problem enforced by government and not the NHS itself. Politicians trying to run it. Those middle managers cost money that could be better spent. Also as most of us are probably aware the more layers of management the more shite workers have to deal with needlessly and that is absolutely draining the staff.

[Tony Baloney]

But it's a bit silly to think that doctors and nurses should be running hospitals. They should be doctoring and nursing.

[Milltown Row2]

But it's a bit silly to think that doctors and nurses should be running hospitals. They should be doctoring and nursing.

I know some middle management and senior management in hospitals who are not from a medical background ..

[Kidder81]

But it's a bit silly to think that doctors and nurses should be running hospitals. They should be doctoring and nursing.

I know some middle management and senior management in hospitals who are not from a medical background ..

Do they need to be though if they are involved in workforce planning and various other areas to ensure the business is operating efficiently ?

[Milltown Row2]

But it's a bit silly to think that doctors and nurses should be running hospitals. They should be doctoring and nursing.

I know some middle management and senior management in hospitals who are not from a medical background ..

Do they need to be though if they are involved in workforce planning and various other areas to ensure the business is operating efficiently ?

Not at all but all school principals are heads of schools and we don't seem to bat an eyelid at that

[imtommygunn]

But it's a bit silly to think that doctors and nurses should be running hospitals. They should be doctoring and nursing.

That's not what I think. Jeremy Hunt etc as head of health. That is the crux of a big part of the problem.

Everyone needs managers I understand. How many do you need? How many layers of paperwork do people on the ground need? Why are there so many job vacancies and the list goes on.

It is couped and Brexit losing so many immigrants will probably have significantly expedited that.

Anyway I diverge...

[johnnycool]

Immigration in the uk is a big bogey man. It's not immigrants fault the nhs is chronically underfunded - it's governments. Uk wide at present it is currently the most corrupt government on record. I don't think here we are much better with the "big two" either. Look at rhi, red sky etc etc. Politicians are unaccountable for anything they do and then immigrants and dole seekers get the blame for being a drain on society when they cost a fraction of what is , let's be honest, outright corruption.

People would ask where the money would come from to fund these things. Well billions upon billions are being wasted.

More than one thing can be true at the same time. It is an irrefutable fact that if you have more people demanding a resource than the supply can sustain you will have major issues. An element of that demand comes from people not born in the country. People always blame underresourcing but the people in the NHS never like to advertise their woeful mismanagement of resources. Too many people, Covid, mismanagement and Tory underfunding are all factors.

When people talk of immigrants its almost always in a bad light, spongers taking our houses, clogging up the NHS etc etc, a lot of Daily Mail readers on here evidently, but fail to forget it was the Phillopino nurses, Indian doctors etc etc that kept the NHS going especially during the pandemic.

The fúcking spongers you should be targeting are the rich f**kers like the Sunaks who pay next to nothing in tax, much like Rees Mogg and Co, the very same owners of said Daily Mail not to mention those who got big contracts during the pandemic purely for the fact they were mates with the Torys, that is why your National Insurance is going up and the NHS is on it's knees, not because of some refugees who've been denied a legal right to seek asylum in the UK so are desperate enough to get on a f**king dingy to cross one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world...

Even the Israeli's stopping shipping people to Rwanda as it was that bad there and that says something...

[Kidder81]

Would you just open the floodgates Johnneycool? No limits? The more the merrier ?

[Eire90]

The tories are just using it as a way to distract from cost of living its ok i am happy to starve to death and have my children to death as long dinghy people are sent to Rwanda thats what the daily mail types be saying. 

[Milltown Row2]

Would you just open the floodgates Johnneycool? No limits? The more the merrier ?

If it's not already immigration should be encouraged, obviously it needs looked at in terms of the just having people here that live off the social payments. Contributing through employment earning a wage and paying taxes will at the very least improve the country...

It's getting jimmy up the street who complains about immigrants stealing his job, (that he never had in the first place) and getting him to find a job, but it needs to be slightly better than the benefits he gets for doing nothing.

As Johnny says taxing the ultra rich would be a good start, not allowing companies like Apple and Google get away with tax breaks would also be a good start.

And controversially we are over populated in terms of families with four or five kids, I grew up in a house of 9! How my parents afforded things I'll never know, but we had little outgoings then, how families afford things now with all the current demands is crazy!

Btw I'm not saying do a China lol

[general_lee]

But why should France/Germany and other countries be burdened with taking all those looking safe haven or a better way of life?

People say stay in the first safe country you come to. in many cases that would be Turkey. When it comes to taking refugees they've something like 3.5m. Why should Turkey take them all? Especially when it's British built arms that's probably forcing these people to flee in the first place.

[johnnycool]

Would you just open the floodgates Johnneycool? No limits? The more the merrier ?

Do you genuinely think refugees are flooding over here because it's the land of milk and honey? There's working people needing benefits and going to food banks to survive currently...

No, it's because a lot of western bombs have blown the shit out of their homes, towns and villages in Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Ukraine ably assisted by despot leaders in their own countries

Refugees need sorting without a doubt, immigrants should be vetted based on need, I'd agree on that, but not this blanket ban like the UK Gov has more or less put in place.

The Brits are fúcking up their own economy purely for racist reasons and are too thick to see it but still people buy into this mantra of "coming over here and taking our jobs", it's utter balls and needs called out and evidently that's creeping in over here as well.

I linked an article in an earlier comment that shows that in the round immigrants prove to be a positive for an economy, but that might require reading something that doesn't have a set of tits on page 3.

[michaelg]

Would you just open the floodgates Johnneycool? No limits? The more the merrier ?

If it's not already immigration should be encouraged, obviously it needs looked at in terms of the just having people here that live off the social payments. Contributing through employment earning a wage and paying taxes will at the very least improve the country...

It's getting jimmy up the street who complains about immigrants stealing his job, (that he never had in the first place) and getting him to find a job, but it needs to be slightly better than the benefits he gets for doing nothing.

As Johnny says taxing the ultra rich would be a good start, not allowing companies like Apple and Google get away with tax breaks would also be a good start.

And controversially we are over populated in terms of families with four or five kids, I grew up in a house of 9! How my parents afforded things I'll never know, but we had little outgoings then, how families afford things now with all the current demands is crazy!

Btw I'm not saying do a China lol

Part of the problem is that asylum seekers are unabvle to work for up to a year or more before they are given refugee status - Through my work I have come across a lot of really capable and motivated guys who are desperate to get working but aren't able to due to the red tape and bureaucracy that holds up the process.