The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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seafoid

Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU


joemamas

Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

sid waddell

Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?

omaghjoe

Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?


;D ;D ;D ;D

I dont vote but certainly wouldn't lean that way, but that is hilarious.
Tho to be fair the funniest thing about it is.... I probably thought that too at a point

But I guess it all hinges on what figure would you put on "many many" ?

Anyway maybe you give us a quick rundown of the Paelo and Neo Cons?

And when your finished would you tell me the difference between Libertarians and Anarchists?

The other aspect of it is Most Americans wouldn't give a toss about Irish or European politics. I would safely say that most Californians wouldn't even know what Northern Ireland is. And the thing is... why would they?

whitey

Quote from: sid waddell on October 08, 2018, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2018, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 07, 2018, 07:56:38 PM
Both parties are a disgrace

Garland should have gotten a hearing and should (probably) have been confirmed

The Republicans rolled the dice and it paid off for them, but it could have backfired spectacularly

Neither party has room for moderates.....the very well liked and respected Democratic SOS in MA was viciously attacked from the left by a bloody upstart in this years primary with all kinds of crazy allegations (Google Josh Zakin/Bill Galvin if you want to learn more). I was so mad I pulled a Democratic ballot so I could vote for Galvin in the primary and will vote for him in November

The Democrats tried to pull of the dirtiest of dirty tricks with Kavanaugh and it backfired spectacularly on them. They could end up losing 4-5 senate seats over this and have completely re energized the Republican base. The might now not even take the house, but they probably will

They now believe their own bvllshit as is evidenced by the amount of nonsense spouted on here......they lose elections and now all of a sudden the system isn't fair-lol.

The republicans also sicken my $hite with their faux patriotism and catering to the lowest common denominator among their base

The Republicans probably rim your hole, Whitey, based on your posting.
And there are plenty of moderates in the Dems.

The GOP is the problem.

I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here.
but then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)
It seems to me there are many, many people living in Ireland and elsewhere a hell of a lot more knowledgable about US politics than most people who live in the US.

Why is it that pro-Republican posters have such a weird paranoia complex about other people having their say?

If you regard regurgitation of CNN talking points as akin to knowledgeable I'm sure you're onto something

Oraisteach

Again, whitey, tell me the primary sources of your information.

heganboy

Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

seafoid

Quote from: Oraisteach on October 08, 2018, 06:04:01 PM
Again, whitey, tell me the primary sources of your information.
Looks like the Koch bros
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

You can't understand the US unless you live there is a version of what in philosophy  is referred to as the "practical man" fallacy, the idea that nothing can exist with any meaning outside immediate physical experience. In football it is known as the "never kicked a ball in your life" theory.

Twitter is free. The NYT is $60 for an online sub.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

sid waddell

Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2018, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.
To be fair, it's pretty much undeniable that there is a strong causative effect between lack of intellect and getting your "news" and "facts" from non-factual sources.


seafoid

#13031
Klobuchar's intro here is on the ball.  What is going on in the US right now is not normal

https://youtu.be/OSoYmY4LoX8

Take it away maestro

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1049359227003781120/video/1
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

omaghjoe

Quote from: heganboy on October 08, 2018, 07:45:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM


I love how somebody who lives in Ireland is so infatuated, and so much more knowledgeable on US politics than somebody living here. But then again likes most Dems you are probably intellectually superior to the rest of us.  ::)

I love it too, maybe you could love it enough to get as knowledgeable yourself? I don't think the issue is intellectual superiority, but probably more around level of effort to get facts from factual sources.

Thats not the issue, even if people accept facts they will elevate or demote their importance depending on wether of not it supports their point/causes/man/party.

Sure politicians speeches and retoric have always been littered with inaccuracies and fallacies to make their point. But people dont care, they like what their saying and thats that

Dolph1

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 06, 2018, 01:02:01 AM
Gmac being fast and loose with the truth again re: Franken.

He wasn't filmed groping a sleeping woman



He was just explaining to a colleague what Brett Kavanaugh did to Christine Blasey Ford.

On a related topic - Anyone hear any more about Keith Ellison (the democrat vice chair) and the allegations made against him?
I'd expect the #MeToo movement are making his life hell these days.
Trump 2020. Making America Greater Again

sid waddell

Required reading by Peter Beinart which blows the transparently bogus "false equivalence" "both sides" narrative out of the water.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/has-american-politics-hit-rock-bottom/572452/?utm_source=twb

Civility Has Its Limits
The conflict over Brett Kavanaugh's nomination centered not on tribalism, but on a lack of justice.

Peter Beinart
Professor of journalism at the City University of New York

When it comes to Brett Kavanaugh, there are three camps. The first believes it's a travesty that he was confirmed. The second believes it's a travesty that he was smeared. The third believes it's a travesty that the process was so divisive.

David Brooks is in the third camp. The Kavanaugh hearings, he wrote on Friday, constituted an "American nadir." You often hear such phrases from people who think the biggest problem with the Kavanaugh battle is that the participants weren't more courteous and open-minded. Jeff Flake said that in debating Kavanaugh, the Senate "hit bottom." Susan Collins called it "rock bottom." Think about that for a second. For most of American history, Supreme Court nominees—like virtually all powerful men—could sexually assault women with complete impunity. Now, because allegations of such behavior sparked a raucous, intemperate political fight, America has hit "rock bottom," a "nadir." How much better things were in the good old days, when sexual-assault allegations didn't polarize the confirmation process, because sexual-assault victims were politically invisible.

Implying, as Brooks, Flake, and Collins do, that America's real problem is a lack of civility rather than a lack of justice requires assuming a moral equivalence between Brett Kavanaugh's supporters and Christine Blasey Ford's. "What we saw in these hearings," writes Brooks, "was the unvarnished tribalization of national life." The term tribe implies atavistic, amoral group loyalty: Huns versus Franks, Yankees versus Red Sox, Hatfields versus McCoys. There are no larger principles at stake. "There was nothing particularly ideological about the narratives," laid out by Kavanaugh and Ford, Brooks declares, "nothing that touched on capitalism, immigration or any of the other great disputes of national life."


But gender is indeed one of the "great disputes of national life." The Kavanaugh fight pitted people who worry that #MeToo hasn't changed America enough, that it's still too easy for men to get away with sexual assault, against people who fear that #MeToo has changed America too much, that it's become too easy for women to ruin men's lives by charging them with sexual assault. That's not a tribal struggle; it's an ideological one. It involves competing visions of the relationship between women and men.

Describing Democrats and Republicans as warring tribes has become a political cliché, but it's wrong. If tribal implies unthinking or inherited group loyalty, then Democrats and Republicans were actually more tribal in the mid-20th century. Back then, when being a Democrat or a Republican signified less about your view of the world, party identity was more a function of regional or ancestral ties. Whether or not they supported civil rights or higher taxes or the Korean War, Irish Catholics from Boston were mostly Democrats; Presbyterians from Kansas were mostly Republicans. Today, party identity is more a function of what you believe. The parties are so bitterly polarized not because they've become more tribal but because they've become more ideological.

But for Brooks, depicting the supporters of Kavanaugh and Ford as tribes is useful because it doesn't only suggest moral equivalence, it also implies an equivalence of power. The "tribalization" of American politics, Brooks argues, "leads to an epidemic of bigotry. Bigotry involves creating a stereotype about a disfavored group and then applying that stereotype to an individual you've never met. It was bigotry against Jews that got Alfred Dreyfus convicted in 1894. It was bigotry against young black males that got the Central Park Five convicted in 1990. It was bigotry against preppy lacrosse players that led to the bogus Duke lacrosse scandal."


This is misleading. There is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by preppy lacrosse players and that faced by black males. There's no equivalence, because preppy lacrosse players, in general, enjoy far more privilege and power and thus, the stereotypes people hold of them don't generally land them in jail or dead. Similarly, there is no equivalence between the "bigotry" faced by men accused of sexual assault and the "bigotry" faced by women who suffer it. There's no equivalence, because men wield far more power. If you don't think that matters, try imagining Kavanaugh getting confirmed by a Senate composed of 79 women.

The struggle over Kavanaugh was, at its core, a struggle between people who want gender relations to change and people who want them to remain the same. And throughout American history, whenever oppressed groups and their supporters have agitated for change, respectable moderates have warned that they were fomenting incivility and division. In April 1963, seven white Alabama ministers and one rabbi wrote a letter to Martin Luther King Jr.. The letter articulated no position on segregation and the right to vote. It assumed, instead, a moral equivalence between blacks who wanted race relations to change and whites who wanted them to remain the same. Both sides held "honest convictions in racial matters." Both "our white and Negro citizenry" should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."

The real danger, the authors claimed, was "friction and unrest." Averting it required "forbearance" and "restraint" on both sides. King, whose Birmingham campaign was titled "Project C"—for confrontation—was purposefully fomenting such friction and unrest through marches, sit-ins, and boycotts. While "technically peaceful," the ministers and rabbi warned, the "extreme measures" adopted by King and his supporters "incite to hatred and violence."


In his response, written from jail, King argued that the white clergymen were mistaking symptom for disease. The problem wasn't "friction and unrest" between Birmingham's two tribes. It was centuries of oppression, which there was no frictionless way to overcome. "I am not afraid of the word 'tension,'" King explained. "We must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

Even as Bull Connor's men savagely beat black protesters in the streets, King recognized that Birmingham was not hitting "rock bottom." It was rising from an almost century-long nadir in which white supremacy—no matter how murderous—was barely even a subject of political controversy, in which black powerlessness was the foundation on which comity between two of America's white-dominated political parties rested.

The problem that the Kavanaugh struggle laid bare is not "unvarnished tribalism." The problem is that women who allege abuse by men still often face male-dominated institutions that do not thoroughly and honestly investigate their claims. That problem is not new; it is very old. What is new is that this injustice now sparks bitter partisan conflict and upends long-standing courtesies. Rape survivors yell at politicians in the Senate halls. The varnish—the attractive, glossy coating that protected male oppression of women—is coming off. Brooks, Collins, and Flake may decry the "tension" this exposes. But, as King understood, the "dark depths of prejudice" can't be overcome any other way.