Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

[Angelo]

He created a couple of serious chances, from not very much,  that Allison had to put in a top class performance to stop.

Very quick to put that boot in there.

We're meant to be talking about a guy who is meant to be the greatest here. It's another case of him not delivering when he is really needed.

That type of performance in adversity is what I've come to expect for him and it doesn't cut it for one of the all time greats.

Angelo, you had me thinking that you might have a point about Messi with regards to his international record, something I didn't accept before.

However, you're letting yourself down big time here. Barcelona were abysmal tonight. Messi got on the ball on a number of occasions and drove forward with little or no support and crowded out by an excellent Liverpool each time.

As mentioned above, is it the case the Maradona always produced the goods in every big game. Here's a Champions' League semi-final video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fFP9Rp3yxE. It's not to prove any point but just to refresh your memory.

If you genuinely think that Maradona or, somehow, Ronaldo from Brazil was a better player than Messi then fair enough. But please don't be telling us that tonight's performance shows that Messi isn't great.

Tonight's performance allied with all the other no shows when Barca were up against it and moreso when Argentina needed that inspirational guy to change a game for them just keep stacking up.

I'm merely pointing toward the fact it happened again tonight. Critical situations that pass him by again and again.

[imtommygunn]

Also irrespective of whether or not anyone thinks he's better than maradona etc anyone who doesn't think he is a great footballer knows little to nothing about football.(not directed at you Angelo)

[mouview]

In a must-win WC game v Brazil in 1982, Maradona got himself sent off. Got himself sent home from USA '94 for propping up Colombia's economy. Did SFA in the '90 final bar rub up everyone the wrong way. Wasn't he on the field when Barce' also let slip a 2-0 first-leg lead to MU way back when?

[thewobbler]

All shitting aside. Anyone who watches football trying to find flaws or arguments against Messi being one of the greatest players of all time must be an extraordinarily joyless soul.

Leave aside the personal statistics and trophy haul that would have to put him into any equation. He's absolutely magic to watch. He makes passes that us at home, in panoramic HD, cannot see. And then he weights them perfectly, so perfectly that you presume it's easy. He weaves and dusts past the very best players in the world as if they're pub footballers. He scores each and every kind of goal. And he's done all this for over a decade.

Joyless, joyless c***ts should find another sport to watch.

[screenexile]

Here Angelo wise up Ronaldo wasn't able to beat Ajax so where does that leave him??

You've lost the plot!!

[Wildweasel74]

Maradona? What did Napoli ever win before he came along in a league where juventus,  inter, ac milan, lazio, and parma, all were stronger than most teams in Europe at the time. Messi and Ronaldo played in stronger club teams. I don't think u get anybody on here steadily watching football from the 80's would say either, were better than Maradona. Brazil 1982 had a better team than many a team that won the world cup. Hungary also. Who, but an older generation(well with Brazil anyway) remember these teams.I never seen enough of the Pele as I was too young plus he played all club football in Brazil, but for 10yrs Maradona was the top footballer in the world. I seen nothing since to change my mind.

[Angelo]

Here Angelo wise up Ronaldo wasn't able to beat Ajax so where does that leave him??

You've lost the plot!!

Who mentioned Ronaldo?

I don't think either Messi or CR7 are in the level of Maradona or the Brazilian Ronaldo.

I think it's a weak era of football right now.

[thewobbler]

What did Napoli ever win before he came along in a league where juventus,  inter, ac milan, lazio, and parma, all were stronger than most teams in Europe at the time. Messi and Ronaldo played in stronger club teams. I don't think u get anybody on here steadily watching football from the 80's would  say either, were better than Maradona. Brazil 1982 had a better team than many a team that won the world cup. Hungary also. Who, but an older generation(well with Brazil anyway) remember these teams I never seen enough of them Pele as I was too young plus he played all club football in Brazil but for 10yrs Maradona was the top footballer in the world. I seen nothing since to change my mind.

Maradona won an Italian league when 90% of the players were Italian.

He was an absolutely brilliant player, and one of the greatest of all time. But the EU and the Bowman rulings changed football forever. When you win a top 4 league now you're doing so against the best players in the world, not from one country. Common sense should tell you which is a greater achievement.

By the way I'm not demeaning old football. As in all sport, you can only beat what's in front of you. But football has had its own Darwinism over the past 30 years.

[Angelo]

Also irrespective of whether or not anyone thinks he's better than maradona etc anyone who doesn't think he is a great footballer knows little to nothing about football.(not directed at you Angelo)

I think his character and inability to adapt to the mechanics outside of his Barcelona comfort zone is what stifles Messi from being considered one of the best ever. Along with CR7 he is the best around now but I think their standing is more reflective of the current malaise of the game at this point.

[Wildweasel74]

Just go have a look at the team milan and inter had at the time. I think Milan from 89-94 is in the top 3 club teams of all time. And Italian fball then was stronger than anywhere else.

[thebuzz]

Here Angelo wise up Ronaldo wasn't able to beat Ajax so where does that leave him??

You've lost the plot!!

Who mentioned Ronaldo?

I don't think either Messi or CR7 are in the level of Maradona or the Brazilian Ronaldo.

I think it's a weak era of football right now.

The thread is about Messi and the Portuguese Ronaldo. Messi got two goals at home when Liverpool were all over them. It just didn't work out for him tonight. Every time he had the ball in the Liverpool half my nerves were shot. He is still a brilliant player.

[thewobbler]

Just go have a look at the team milan and inter had at the time. I think Milan from 89-94 is in the top 3 club teams of all time. And Italian fball then was stronger than anywhere else.

Milan of 89/90 consisted of 20 Italians and 3 Dutch. They may have been 3 outstanding Dutch, which made them the best team of their day on the continent. But I'll repeat my point: the top teams across the top leagues nowadays are all full of the world's beat players, not a country's best players. Simple mathematics tells you which approach will create better sides.

[Taylor]

After last night I can safely say I would rather have Ronaldo on my team going into a tough game.

That would not have happened last night if he had been on the Barca team IMHO

[thewobbler]

After last night I can safely say I would rather have Ronaldo on my team going into a tough game.

That would not have happened last night if he had been on the Barca team IMHO

Something that bothers me greatly. We now have more research power than every before at our fingertips. Yet people seem more keen than ever to make absurd proclamations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/9235260.stm

I guess that game wasn't big enough for Ronaldo to stand up in?

Or is it possible to concede that even the greatest players of all time occasionally can't turn it around?

[Angelo]

Here Angelo wise up Ronaldo wasn't able to beat Ajax so where does that leave him??

You've lost the plot!!

Who mentioned Ronaldo?

I don't think either Messi or CR7 are in the level of Maradona or the Brazilian Ronaldo.

I think it's a weak era of football right now.

The thread is about Messi and the Portuguese Ronaldo. Messi got two goals at home when Liverpool were all over them. It just didn't work out for him tonight. Every time he had the ball in the Liverpool half my nerves were shot. He is still a brilliant player.

And Messi went missing once again in the face of adversity. People can make all the excuses in the world about his goals, his talent and ability. He's 31 now and last night adds to a long list of his disappearing acts in the face of adversity. When the chips are he hides and that's the reason why his legacy should not measure up to the true greats.