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Discuss.

Mayo/Tipp should refuse to play.
Challenge the GAA to fix the problem.

Would Tipp/Mayo get within 5/6 points of them

Jez Farr, it must be a slow day when you are starting this stream!

Dublin 1/6 to win!

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 06, 2020, 08:56:37 AM
Discuss.

The only thing to discuss is how much Dublin will win by.

Think I'll buy the TV guide and see what else is on TV that day.

Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2020, 09:14:29 AM
Mayo/Tipp should refuse to play.

That's the spirit

Presumably that's what Waterford should have done in 2008 too!

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2020, 09:14:29 AM
Mayo/Tipp should refuse to play.

That's the spirit

Presumably that's what Waterford should have done in 2008 too!

Did Dublin play Waterford in 2008?

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 06, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2020, 09:14:29 AM
Mayo/Tipp should refuse to play.

That's the spirit

Presumably that's what Waterford should have done in 2008 too!

Did Dublin play Waterford in 2008?

Again, going all sarky - the Sinn Fein media strategy

Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

This is genuinely the attitude

Modern life has made some people very, very soft and self-indulgent

It's the Celtic Tiger attitude

This board is a showcase for that attitude

Mayo should push for Tullamore for the final. Conor Lane will be down to referee final.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

Will you quit making an eejit of yourself. Kilkenny had no advantage over Waterford in 2008, unless you count their not having a football team.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

Will you quit making an eejit of yourself. Kilkenny had no advantage over Waterford in 2008, unless you count their not having a football team.

Kilkenny had the advantage of having a far superior set of players. Just like Dublin had over Cavan and Mayo have over Tipp. When you're good you're good. That Kilkenny team and this Dublin team also have in common that they are ruthless. Mayo looking pretty ruthless today too.

Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

Will you quit making an eejit of yourself. Kilkenny had no advantage over Waterford in 2008, unless you count their not having a football team.

Waterford haven't much of a football team either..

Anyways you can change this title

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 04:10:21 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

Will you quit making an eejit of yourself. Kilkenny had no advantage over Waterford in 2008, unless you count their not having a football team.

Waterford haven't much of a football team either..

Anyways you can change this title

Really looking forward to the final. Mayo are the one team physically able to match Dublin. Also the way they play with a high press creates plenty of chances for them but also means they're vulnerable at the back. Incredible scoring today.

One way or another this will be a very good final

Tommy Conroy is a game changer, this will be no hammering. Even just now having a full front three to worry about and being able to keep someone like Darren Coen on the bench

people like to talk about dublin as a problem but what the mayo and kerry problem the gaa needs at least 6  to 8 teams capable of winning an all ireland to be a good product.

Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on December 06, 2020, 05:12:46 PM
Tommy Conroy is a game changer, this will be no hammering. Even just now having a full front three to worry about and being able to keep someone like Darren Coen on the bench

Remember we played Tipperary today! Galway and Roscommon within our own province are better teams. Read nothing into todays game.

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 05:18:46 PM
people like to talk about dublin as a problem but what the mayo and kerry problem the gaa needs at least 6  to 8 teams capable of winning an all ireland to be a good product.

There's not many competitions in any sport has 6-8 teams capable of winning.

Mayo have a much better bench than in 2017

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 06, 2020, 11:09:33 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2020, 09:14:29 AM
Mayo/Tipp should refuse to play.

That's the spirit

Presumably that's what Waterford should have done in 2008 too!

Did Dublin play Waterford in 2008?

Again, going all sarky - the Sinn Fein media strategy

Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

This is genuinely the attitude

Modern life has made some people very, very soft and self-indulgent

It's the Celtic Tiger attitude

This board is a showcase for that attitude

The system is broken.
KK had won 2 in the run up.to 2008. Not 5.

You can't put unlimited amounts of X into any closed system and expect equilibrium to continue. This goes for climate as much as for gaelic football.

Dublin house prices will collapse and the Dublin machine will collapse but which will happen first ?

So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

sure nothing will happen as long bandwagoners go to games if people want change boycott matches tell them you not going anymore.

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 05:36:39 PM
sure nothing will happen as long bandwagoners go to games if people want change boycott matches tell them you not going anymore.

But what if they played the games on Friday night?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

Have Cuala not won a few Club All-Irelands recently?

Quote from: marty34 on December 06, 2020, 05:41:43 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

Have Cuala not won a few Club All-Irelands recently?

loughgiel won a club championship we won a football club championship played in two finals, club and county are chalk and cheese

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

Why have Antrim.never won the hurling?
Huge population.
Hockey skills come in handy as well..

Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2020, 05:49:25 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

Why have Antrim.never won the hurling?
Huge population.
Hockey skills come in handy as well..

Look at Belfast and half it, then half it again because of football, then more than half it as soccer is bigger then you might get a picture you numbers Participation!

Then you've the logistics of where we are... but hey I'll be dammed if I'm going to gurn about splitting counties in half

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

Yes, how can a county with 22 titles in football get some money in the early '00's and go on to get to 29?

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 05:36:39 PM
sure nothing will happen as long bandwagoners go to games if people want change boycott matches tell them you not going anymore.

So people who go to support their counties are bandwagoners now? I go to as many Armagh games as I am able it and will keep on doing so until the day I die. Dublin winning Sam every year won't change rhat

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:07:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

I'm just giving you the stats, the nearly all and teams full of says enough

Dublin hurlers were on a level with Antrim and Laois for 40+ years.
Since the €€€€as starting rolling in they've won Leinsters at 3 grades, a NHL and were a dodgy sending off away from the AIF in 2013(?).
Of the 39,000 registered GAA players in Dublin how many would be hurling only or primarily?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 07:12:34 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:07:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

I'm just giving you the stats, the nearly all and teams full of says enough

I'm just educating here beyond the stats on the page.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:14:15 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 07:12:34 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:07:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

I'm just giving you the stats, the nearly all and teams full of says enough

I'm just educating here beyond the stats on the page.

Be interesting to see the link on that

Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2020, 07:13:37 PM
Dublin hurlers were on a level with Antrim and Laois for 40+ years.
Since the €€€€as starting rolling in they've won Leinsters at 3 grades, a NHL and were a dodgy sending off away from the AIF in 2013(?).
Of the 39,000 registered GAA players in Dublin how many would be hurling only or primarily?

Not sure but it's a competitive dual county which unlike yours puts the same effort into both

Well if anyone wants to actually discuss the game... you can be sure that unlike any other team this season - Mayo will certainly give the Dubs a game.
Whether or not they have enough to get over the line is the question.
I don't think there will be much in it either way. Mayo have improved since last year - 3 quality starters introduced in Mullin, McLoughlin and Conroy.
It has the makings of a quality final - weather permitting.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:14:15 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 07:12:34 PM

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:07:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

I'm just giving you the stats, the nearly all and teams full of says enough

I'm just educating here beyond the stats on the page.

Be interesting to see the link on that

I mean it's fairly common knowledge in hurling circles. Just the way it was at the time when transport links were poor. Lads living and working in Dublin wouldn't be commuting back to training down the country every week so many just played for Dublin.

Anyway it's off topic anyway for the football final thread.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Also Dublin were the best team in Leinster in 2013. If it was all to do with funding in the last decade or so they should surely have kicked on to be challenging for all irelands. In fact the reverse is true, all that funding has seen them go into reverse where they would now be the 4th best team in Leinster behind kilkenny, galway and wexford.

hmmm. i think this will actually be an interesting game. tipp had a lot of joy on that mayo full backline with high balls as they had a height advantage up front, but i don't see dublin doing that. they like to walk it in with pace, athleticism and movement. but there is actually a lot of pace in that mayo team. the quickness with which some of the mayo forward play was happening today...they were leaving tipp for dust at times. the new lad conroy has an x factor that's been missing from mayo's forward line in previous years and o'connor is looking as good as i've ever seen him. there's a new dynamic to their attack that they really haven't had before...maybe the ciaran mcdonald effect?

a concern i'd have for mayo is that tipp were having a lot of joy in midfield. i don't think mayo's midfield is as formidable as it was circa 2014. tipp cleared out the mayo midfield plenty today, especially in the second half, which gave them a platform for those goal chances they were creating. brian fenton and james mccarthy could make hay there the next day. will mayo have a plan for that? i felt their tackling was immense today - the turnovers they were winning up in their own forward line even were phenomenal. there isn't a ball they won't contest in some way or another. maybe that's the strategy? dublin might win in the middle, but mayo to go hard in the tackle and turn over everything they can? or let dublin have the short kickout and turn them over in their own full and half back lines?

Anyone writing Mayo off could well be left surprised again. Horan gets his match up right this will be a competitive final. I'd expect Mayo to be more tuned in defensively, today they took on Tipperary in a shootout and put little focus on their defence.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

You asked why Dublin don't have the same success in hurling as they do in football, I provided a valid explanation. You're either trolling or just a moron.

Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on December 06, 2020, 07:07:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Nearly all those titles were won with teams full of lads from out the country.

That was the case in football too in the early years , in fact it be argued as there no such thing as Dublin gaa , it's all built on culchies bar the heffo era contingent of anti culchie brigade

So much to admire about Mayo today, went sweeperless at the back. Knew they would concede goal chances, but at the same time knew they had the quality of players to commit to attack, that would severely punish a limited division 3 sides defence. Compare that to gutless Kerry who never tuck on Cork in any meaningful way offensively, Cork also hadn't the balls to take on Tippeary. Cillian O Connor was excellent.
In truth while the 4 best teams didn't make it to the last 4 this year, unlike previous years with the super eights or Quater final format, the best 2 did. I believe Mayo will severely test Dublin they might even win & quite frankly this Rossie won't begrudge them one bit. Take O Horas attitude in doing a diving save with his head. Mayo must be a joy to manage.
This game is something to look forward to.

Dublin 11/10 -6 that's a licence to print money.

Won by 6 away
10 at home
8 at home

Last three games. Dublin will shit on Mayo.

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2020, 07:43:28 PM
Anyone writing Mayo off could well be left surprised again. Horan gets his match up right this will be a competitive final. I'd expect Mayo to be more tuned in defensively, today they took on Tipperary in a shootout and put little focus on their defence.

I'm not sure if I could agree with the expectation. It might be better addressed as hope.

Mayo have thrown in a performance like today every few years going back as far as I can remember. When they dethroned Tyrone in 2004 they couldn't miss. When they demolished Down in 2012 at Croke, they looked like they were playing a different sport. Same again when wiping Sligo in Connacht 2015. And of course 2013 Donegal.

When they play like that, it matters little if they're porous at the back, they attack every part of the pitch with such gusto and accuracy that they will win handsomely.

But they've never produced that level in a final.

Things that make me positive they might give Dublin their fill of it:

- no Vaughan, Cafferky or Hennelly near it. This is harsh on fine servants to Mayo, but it's going to be hard enough to beat Dublin without bringing along brain fartery. Keegan is the closest thing to a brain fart in the current side, and that's an exceptionally encouraging position.

- Durcan, E McLaughlin, DOC and Ruane, springing forward and backwards in unison. Dublin just don't come up against teams that can match athletic ability. This is the closest they'll come. If all 4 have blinders, then this will be tight. Ruane in particular might even give Fenton something to worry about for the first time in years.

- Barrett and Keegan. Mayo will go effectively man for man with Dublin. Which means that somebody somewhere has to have the power, speed and stamina put a clamp, almost by themselves, on Kilkenny and O'Callaghan. Barrett and Keegan will relish this challenge, which is unusual enough behaviour in itself.

- Then high press. Perhaps the greatest compliment you can give Dublin is that even their weakest players are composed, have balanced, and are two-footed and two-handed. Which means when you probe for a weakness it's hit to be a nullifying experience. Bug allowing Dublin to regain possession and build from the back, well that's just mad, because if you do force them into a mistake, the closer this is to the Dublin goal, the more profitable it will be. Dublin are streets ahead of Tipp, but the same principles will apply in the AI final: force the mistakes in their third, and reap what you sow.


Still I wouldn't be hopeful. Mayo might rattle the Dubs. But composure and footballing intelligence can only win out, unless the most unlikely of goal fests rains past Cluxton

Dublin 2/9
Mayo 9/2
Draw 10/1

I'd expect money to come on Dublin at those prices and their odds to shorten before the match

Where's Stephen Archer?

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 07:44:37 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

You asked why Dublin don't have the same success in hurling as they do in football, I provided a valid explanation. You're either trolling or just a moron.

You said tradition, I said that's not entirely true, someone mentioned Dublin's hurling titles were tainted with outsiders, if that was the case so would their football titles have the same issues of that time.

You've not provided the numbers. If the numbers playing hurling in Dublin is more than the numbers in the likes of Waterford Wexford Tipp Limerick then  they should be winning more.

They don't win many in hurling as it requires more natural skill, pumping iron and getting fit will take you so far, Dublin many years ago did just that in football, still couldn't beat the naturally gifted footballers, they've since developed better players.

If Dublin get their act together they could seriously challenge the top 3 teams in hurling.. but we'll wait and see.

Calling me a moron won't make you're argument any better.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 06, 2020, 08:05:49 PM
Dublin 11/10 -6 that's a licence to print money.

Won by 6 away
10 at home
8 at home

Last three games. Dublin will shit on Mayo.

Two of them league games? Last championship game Mayo led at half time and  a 10 minute blitz at the start of the 2nd half turned the game on its head allowing Dublin run out comfortable winners.

In the All Ireland finals Dublin played in since 2010 only Tyrone 2019 and the replay against Kerry last year did Dublin win comfortably.

Quote from: thewobbler on December 06, 2020, 08:05:55 PM

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2020, 07:43:28 PM
Anyone writing Mayo off could well be left surprised again. Horan gets his match up right this will be a competitive final. I'd expect Mayo to be more tuned in defensively, today they took on Tipperary in a shootout and put little focus on their defence.

But they've never produced that level in a final.

have to disagree. they were excellent in the 2017 final, one of their best ever croke park performances. they might not have had a flurry of goals, but they were tight and focused and intense all over the pitch and it was honestly the only time in the last decade that i've seen dublin properly sweating and rattled. that was the best final performance i've seen from a team that didn't actually win it. they would have beaten any other team that day and probably handily too. dublin just had that bit extra coming off the bench.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on December 06, 2020, 08:05:55 PM

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2020, 07:43:28 PM
Anyone writing Mayo off could well be left surprised again. Horan gets his match up right this will be a competitive final. I'd expect Mayo to be more tuned in defensively, today they took on Tipperary in a shootout and put little focus on their defence.

But they've never produced that level in a final.

have to disagree. they were excellent in the 2017 final, one of their best ever croke park performances. they might not have had a flurry of goals, but they were tight and focused and intense all over the pitch and it was honestly the only time in the last decade that i've seen dublin properly sweating and rattled. that was the best final performance i've seen from a team that didn't actually win it. they would have beaten any other team that day and probably handily too. dublin just had that bit extra coming off the bench.

correct

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 06:39:29 PM

Quote from: greatpoint on December 06, 2020, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
So if we look at the money and population and player participation which Dublin has over all counties in all codes why haven't they won hurling?

The hurling tradition in Dublin is not in any way comparable to that of football, hurling doesn't draw anywhere near the numbers that football does. Did you really not think of this before posting?

So it's tradition? Right there's me thinking it was the professional players and all the money given to to county from Croke that made Dublin better?

By the way, Dublin have 6 titles, more than Clare more than Wexford more than Galway more than Waterford and more than Offaly, those other traditional hurling counties

Wexford had 5 in the 1982 Gaelsport annual and they added 1 in 96.
Offaly wouldn't have been a traditional county. It was football until hurling got going in the 60s
.

who will mayo put on fenton?

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

I actually think Mayo can win. Everything is all about the Dubs which is fair enough as they are the greatest team in GAA history but Mayo are one of a few sides who can match them on their day. Don't get me wrong Dublin are also good enough to get a run on them and hammer them like they did Laois,Meath & Cavan but if Mayo can keep the goals out they surely have some chance and they have shown in the past they are not intimidated by Dublin like so many others.

Quote from: thewobbler on December 06, 2020, 05:20:04 PM

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 05:18:46 PM
people like to talk about dublin as a problem but what the mayo and kerry problem the gaa needs at least 6  to 8 teams capable of winning an all ireland to be a good product.

There's not many competitions in any sport has 6-8 teams capable of winning.

True  but obviously hurling is an exception.

So much has to go right for Mayo and wrong for Dublin for half a chance of an upset.

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 06, 2020, 09:47:01 PM
So much has to go right for Mayo and wrong for Dublin for half a chance of an upset.

Indeed Farr and an oul bit of defence tightening :-\

Quote from: reillycavan on December 06, 2020, 09:22:28 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

really? i haven't been that impressed by him this year. mayo's midfield is a weak link in general i think

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

Is it Ciaran Archer ye mean? If so - he is still u20 so probably be called in next season.
They obviously have a lot of talented players. Kilkenny, O Callaghan, Rock have been consistently excellent. Their other 3 starting forwards aren't anything special though.
Mannion, Howard and Costello all on the bench is strange unless they are deliberately holding them in reserve because of the impact they can have off the bench. 

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:59:52 PM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 06, 2020, 09:22:28 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

really? i haven't been that impressed by him this year. mayo's midfield is a weak link in general i think

I think he means in terms of being mobile and able to stick with Fenton around the pitch.
He wouldn't be hectic in the air true enough.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:59:52 PM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 06, 2020, 09:22:28 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

really? i haven't been that impressed by him this year. mayo's midfield is a weak link in general i think

Winning clean possession yes but crowding the middle 8 and winning breaking ball Mayo remain strong in that area.

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 05:36:39 PM
sure nothing will happen as long bandwagoners go to games if people want change boycott matches tell them you not going anymore.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/aig-renews-sponsorship-with-dublin-gaa-in-4m-deal-1.3487922

You could start by boycotting AIG , for a start, their 800k contribution to the Dublin coffers is helping to ruin Gaelic football, yet they expect to do business all over Ireland.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 08:32:58 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on December 06, 2020, 08:05:55 PM

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2020, 07:43:28 PM
Anyone writing Mayo off could well be left surprised again. Horan gets his match up right this will be a competitive final. I'd expect Mayo to be more tuned in defensively, today they took on Tipperary in a shootout and put little focus on their defence.

But they've never produced that level in a final.

have to disagree. they were excellent in the 2017 final, one of their best ever croke park performances. they might not have had a flurry of goals, but they were tight and focused and intense all over the pitch and it was honestly the only time in the last decade that i've seen dublin properly sweating and rattled. that was the best final performance i've seen from a team that didn't actually win it. they would have beaten any other team that day and probably handily too. dublin just had that bit extra coming off the bench.

I'd go so far as to say that Mayo's display that day would probably have won every other All-Ireland final ever played, they played at an outstanding level

Dublin have never put in the sort of 70 minute performance in a final that everybody thinks they are capable of, one where they just brush a team aside, they didn't even do it to Tyrone, they didn't do it in 2017 either, which is the problem for Mayo - once again Mayo could put in a full 70 minute outstanding performance and still come up short to a Dublin team not at their brilliant best

I wonder will Dessie Farrell's inexperience in this sort of situation be an issue, this final will be different for Dublin

He has never even experienced a real contest at senior inter-county level, whereas Horan has long experience

Even Jim Gavin made a hames of his first final in 2013, Dublin were left with 13 fit players for the last 10 minutes because he'd shot his load with subs

Stopping goals is the key for Mayo, which is why today is worrying for them despite an overall great performance

If they can restrict Dublin to one goal Mayo have a chance, though it would only be a chance

Restrict them to no goals and they have a right chance

In 2013, 2015 draw and replay, 2016 draw and replay, and 2017, Dublin got soft goals - and in all bar the 2013 final and 2019 semi-final, Dublin got early goals

Mayo must stop that happening again, they must avoid a bad start, but they must also dictate the terms like they did in 2016 and 2017 and for long stretches of the other matches

Quote from: galwayman on December 06, 2020, 10:02:47 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

Is it Ciaran Archer ye mean? If so - he is still u20 so probably be called in next season.
They obviously have a lot of talented players. Kilkenny, O Callaghan, Rock have been consistently excellent. Their other 3 starting forwards aren't anything special though.
Mannion, Howard and Costello all on the bench is strange unless they are deliberately holding them in reserve because of the impact they can have off the bench.

That's the fella alright, didn't realise he was still underage

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

He is a serious talent, his display against Ballyboden in the club championship last year was unbelievable and he has shown well in league appearances

Farrell was Na Fianna manager then

I would rate McHugh higher in talent terms than Paddy Small, in most counties he would be the star forward, I don't think that's the case with Small

I think he is not on the panel at the moment however and he's no longer young, he was minor in 2012, so it might never happen for him at this stage

God forbid the Sunday game actually discussed a bit of football, are they going to cover the mayo match at all? Surely nobody is taking this breaking up Dublin crap seriously, piss take stuff. Redistribute finances fairly, limit the commercial shite, put proper structures in all counties.

pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

Quote from: Tubberman on December 06, 2020, 10:40:45 PM
pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

+1

Pat Gilroy and Des having a chat about what's the problem with the rest of us!

McEntee is so weak!

Meath are going nowhere with that fella over them anyway, jesus christ!

Quote from: galwayman on December 06, 2020, 10:02:47 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

Is it Ciaran Archer ye mean? If so - he is still u20 so probably be called in next season.
They obviously have a lot of talented players. Kilkenny, O Callaghan, Rock have been consistently excellent. Their other 3 starting forwards aren't anything special though.
Mannion, Howard and Costello all on the bench is strange unless they are deliberately holding them in reserve because of the impact they can have off the bench.

Talk that Howard is carrying a back injury, I can't think of any other reason he wouldn't be in

Costello just isn't trusted to start, he never has been, he has the curse of the supersub forever hanging over him

Seems to be a form thing with Mannion

I think we'll see Dublin revert to experience more in the final, I'd be surprised if Paddy Small starts

Wouldn't be surprised if McAuley sees some action either, Philly McMahon definitely will, probably Kevin McManamon as well

Farrell has made a clear move to phase out some older heads this year but that could be a double edged sword

if mayo win is inter county football saved

Quote from: Tubberman on December 06, 2020, 10:40:45 PM
pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

One thing Gilroy is not is thick

Gerry McEntee clearly got the brains in his family

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: Tubberman on December 06, 2020, 10:40:45 PM
pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

One thing Gilroy is not is thick

Gerry McEntee clearly got the brains in his family

You can be smart and still a thick man.

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 10:58:22 PM
if mayo win is inter county football saved

No! And I'm from Mayo.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

He is a serious talent, his display against Ballyboden in the club championship last year was unbelievable and he has shown well in league appearances

Farrell was Na Fianna manager then

I would rate McHugh higher in talent terms than Paddy Small, in most counties he would be the star forward, I don't think that's the case with Small

I think he is not on the panel at the moment however and he's no longer young, he was minor in 2012, so it might never happen for him at this stage

The irony of you comment on McHugh is really the problem.
Guess where his father is from.
Mayo

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 06, 2020, 10:43:42 PM
Pat Gilroy and Des having a chat about what's the problem with the rest of us!

McEntee is so weak!

Chat and a laugh. What do you expect from pigs but grunts. Patronising load of shite.

Quote from: Eire90 on December 06, 2020, 10:58:22 PM
if mayo win is inter county football saved

For the sake of the future of the inter county game, Mayo winning this year would be the worse thing that could happen.

No disrespect to Mayo.

I've said it before on this board- Mayo will always keep on coming from here on.

In a nutshell, they are afraid of no men and maybe just a very few women.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 06, 2020, 11:06:29 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 06, 2020, 10:43:42 PM
Pat Gilroy and Des having a chat about what's the problem with the rest of us!

McEntee is so weak!

Chat and a laugh. What do you expect from pigs but grunts. Patronising load of shite.

+1

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: Tubberman on December 06, 2020, 10:40:45 PM
pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

One thing Gilroy is not is thick

Gerry McEntee clearly got the brains in his family

Pat Gilroy offering reasonable suggestions and people accuse him of being thick. Pot, kettle, black ring any bells for posters here.

Dublin offered commercial help to all the other Leinster counties and they all said no. I wonder what their secrets are that they don't want the big bad Dublin lads to know?

God forbid they had actually accepted the offer of help from the dubs. The embarassment of admitting they didn't have the experience or expertise couldn't be allowed and county board members could lose face with their colleagues. Far better to pretend they know better and decline the dubs offer of assistance

Quote from: galwayman on December 06, 2020, 10:02:47 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

Is it Ciaran Archer ye mean? If so - he is still u20 so probably be called in next season.
They obviously have a lot of talented players. Kilkenny, O Callaghan, Rock have been consistently excellent. Their other 3 starting forwards aren't anything special though.
Mannion, Howard and Costello all on the bench is strange unless they are deliberately holding them in reserve because of the impact they can have off the bench.

Small and Bugler aren't anything special? Those 2 could and may well be a huge part of the Dublin front 6 for the next 8 / 10 Sams

What's the story with Mannion this year? He's as good a forward as what's in the country imo but not starting. Surely he's far better than Paddy Small?

Quote from: square_ball on December 06, 2020, 11:40:25 PM
What's the story with Mannion this year? He's as good a forward as what's in the country imo but not starting. Surely he's far better than Paddy Small?

Small is a great man to win a mark! Marks are like free frees!

Quote from: dublin7 on December 06, 2020, 11:28:45 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 11:00:22 PM

Quote from: Tubberman on December 06, 2020, 10:40:45 PM
pat Gilroy is some thick headed ****

One thing Gilroy is not is thick

Gerry McEntee clearly got the brains in his family

Pat Gilroy offering reasonable suggestions and people accuse him of being thick. Pot, kettle, black ring any bells for posters here.

Dublin offered commercial help to all the other Leinster counties and they all said no. I wonder what their secrets are that they don't want the big bad Dublin lads to know?

God forbid they had actually accepted the offer of help from the dubs. The embarassment of admitting they didn't have the experience or expertise couldn't be allowed and county board members could lose face with their colleagues. Far better to pretend they know better and decline the dubs offer of assistance

I agree with you totally up until the end as I've just said - but what about the GAA investment in Dublin players vs, their Mayo counterparts?
Yet they will be going into the final on equal terms.  Don't you agree there's an anomaly here?
You got anything to say about this?

Lookit anyway, the two best teams in the country over the last decade are in the final. Other teams were hawked and pimped up but .........

I don't imagine how Mayo can win but this whole championship has been a nice distraction in probably the most difficult time of an awful year for everybody.

Same with the other sports as well. It's been great to have the games.

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 06, 2020, 10:04:50 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:59:52 PM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 06, 2020, 09:22:28 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

really? i haven't been that impressed by him this year. mayo's midfield is a weak link in general i think

Winning clean possession yes but crowding the middle 8 and winning breaking ball Mayo remain strong in that area.

i agree that mayo are superb tacklers and winning dirty ball and forcing turnovers is a really strong area for them, probably their strongest area. but i do think fenton is a great man for winning a ball cleanly and doing away with it quickly, either laying off the pass or carrying the ball through the middle himself. he doesn't dawdle. can't see him getting bottled up too often.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 07, 2020, 12:17:58 AM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 06, 2020, 10:04:50 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:59:52 PM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 06, 2020, 09:22:28 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 06, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
who will mayo put on fenton?

Matthew Ruane is the man for the job.

Mayo have no answer to Fenton. Let's not be codding ourselves with a matchup there. Dublin can only be beaten by a team that gets them out of their comfort zone. Dublin's comfort zone though is a very high gear. To even threaten them you have to get them to up that and get them to crack. Realistically I cant really see Mayo having enough to do that. Nobody else does either so it is what it is.

really? i haven't been that impressed by him this year. mayo's midfield is a weak link in general i think

Winning clean possession yes but crowding the middle 8 and winning breaking ball Mayo remain strong in that area.

i agree that mayo are superb tacklers and winning dirty ball and forcing turnovers is a really strong area for them, probably their strongest area. but i do think fenton is a great man for winning a ball cleanly and doing away with it quickly, either laying off the pass or carrying the ball through the middle himself. he doesn't dawdle. can't see him getting bottled up too often.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 10:54:49 PM

Talk that Howard is carrying a back injury, I can't think of any other reason he wouldn't be in

Costello just isn't trusted to start, he never has been, he has the curse of the supersub forever hanging over him

Seems to be a form thing with Mannion

I think we'll see Dublin revert to experience more in the final, I'd be surprised if Paddy Small starts

Wouldn't be surprised if McAuley sees some action either, Philly McMahon definitely will, probably Kevin McManamon as well

Farrell has made a clear move to phase out some older heads this year but that could be a double edged sword

Bench v Cavan

Comerford
Howard
C Basquel
A Byrne
Costello
Lahiff
Lowndes
Mannion
McMahon
McManamon
O'Carroll

So unlikely Macauley will see any action in the final if he can't make the 26 for the semi. No Cian O'Sullivan in the 26 either.

I don't see Paddy Small being dropped at this stage, but I'd expect Mannion to get at least 20 minutes. 

I think the only selection issue Dessie is seriously considering is whether Howard starts, and who makes way. 

Quote from: Hound on December 07, 2020, 07:52:06 AM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 10:54:49 PM

Talk that Howard is carrying a back injury, I can't think of any other reason he wouldn't be in

Costello just isn't trusted to start, he never has been, he has the curse of the supersub forever hanging over him

Seems to be a form thing with Mannion

I think we'll see Dublin revert to experience more in the final, I'd be surprised if Paddy Small starts

Wouldn't be surprised if McAuley sees some action either, Philly McMahon definitely will, probably Kevin McManamon as well

Farrell has made a clear move to phase out some older heads this year but that could be a double edged sword

Bench v Cavan

Comerford
Howard
C Basquel
A Byrne
Costello
Lahiff
Lowndes
Mannion
McMahon
McManamon
O'Carroll

So unlikely Macauley will see any action in the final if he can't make the 26 for the semi. No Cian O'Sullivan in the 26 either.

I don't see Paddy Small being dropped at this stage, but I'd expect Mannion to get at least 20 minutes. 

I think the only selection issue Dessie is seriously considering is whether Howard starts, and who makes way.

Think Bugler place could be pressure for final. Howard might start ahead of him.

Quote from: square_ball on December 06, 2020, 11:40:25 PM
What's the story with Mannion this year? He's as good a forward as what's in the country imo but not starting. Surely he's far better than Paddy Small?

Mannion got injured in club semi final.  He only returned to training after the Westmeath.  Will be sub again for final. Agree is better player than Paddy Small.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 09:49:49 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2020, 09:07:51 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 06, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Where's Stephen Archer?

They don't need him. Just like they don't need Aaron Byrne nor Conor McHugh, their other U20/21 players of the year from the last six seasons. An absurd, and interminable, embarrassment of riches.

Had forgotten about McHugh, he looked like a serious talent.

He is a serious talent, his display against Ballyboden in the club championship last year was unbelievable and he has shown well in league appearances

Farrell was Na Fianna manager then

I would rate McHugh higher in talent terms than Paddy Small, in most counties he would be the star forward, I don't think that's the case with Small

I think he is not on the panel at the moment however and he's no longer young, he was minor in 2012, so it might never happen for him at this stage

McHugh lacks pace. Good man to take a score but work rate is questionable too.  Mannion and Small are better all round players.  Aaron Byrne was a very good underage player but hasn't stood out for Na Fianna in recent years years.

Heart obviously wants Mayo to win it. Nobody deserves an All Ireland more than majority of their soldiers.

Obviously would be type of cruel twist in the year that it is for their fans and Andy Moran if they were to finally do it mind you. Life can just be that at times.

Head, obviously can't look past Dublin. They are scary. Should be a good game, Dublin just seem to get it done, Mayo are probably the team with the profile to beat them, but even then, it's still a massive task for them. One thing about Mayo is, they'll have no fear of Dublin.

Probably the final we all wanted when the provincials were decided - no disrespect meant to Tipp/Cavan

Mayo have already obliged Dublin in 2013, 2016 and 2017.
There  is probably a word in German for taking part repeatedly in something that is not in your interest.

It's very very hard to make a credible case for Mayo even coming close here.

Last year, we did brilliantly for the first half, retained possession well, slowed the game down (with a view to staying fresh for the last 10 mins) and went in ahead. Dublin came out and blew us away in the first 10 mins of the second half. We'll have 7 changes from that team the next day, mostly in the forwards.

Looking at the match-ups at the back for us:

Mullin on Small?
Barrett on Callaghan
Keegan on KK?
Durcan on Bugler
Coen on Rock?
McLaughlin (assuming he's fit) on Scully

Keegan usually picks up KK but if you bring him out there, you need to put Coen back into the FB line which leaves the centre of the defense very open. Barrett is 32/33 and Keegan is 31 so where they were close to their peak back in 2017, they're getting on now - KK and Callaghan on the other hand are 27 and 24 now so they're right in their prime. Hard to see us winning one, never mind both of those duels. Say Mullin and Durcan win their match ups, Mannion and Howard will be coming off the bench as replacements.

Then you look at MF and you have Ruane v Fenton and Loftus v McCarthy and it doesn't get much better for us. Will Horan have a plan for when Dublin press up on our kickouts? We need to have something because otherwise it'll be a hammering.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 07, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
It's very very hard to make a credible case for Mayo even coming close here.

Last year, we did brilliantly for the first half, retained possession well, slowed the game down (with a view to staying fresh for the last 10 mins) and went in ahead. Dublin came out and blew us away in the first 10 mins of the second half. We'll have 7 changes from that team the next day, mostly in the forwards.

Looking at the match-ups at the back for us:

Mullin on Small?
Barrett on Callaghan
Keegan on KK?
Durcan on Bugler
Coen on Rock?
McLaughlin (assuming he's fit) on Scully

Keegan usually picks up KK but if you bring him out there, you need to put Coen back into the FB line which leaves the centre of the defense very open. Barrett is 32/33 and Keegan is 31 so where they were close to their peak back in 2017, they're getting on now - KK and Callaghan on the other hand are 27 and 24 now so they're right in their prime. Hard to see us winning one, never mind both of those duels. Say Mullin and Durcan win their match ups, Mannion and Howard will be coming off the bench as replacements.

Then you look at MF and you have Ruane v Fenton and Loftus v McCarthy and it doesn't get much better for us. Will Horan have a plan for when Dublin press up on our kickouts? We need to have something because otherwise it'll be a hammering.

You'd put Durcan on whichever of COC or KK plays out the field I'd imagine. Winning their own kickout is gonna be an issue I'd imagine.

Durcan took McCaffrey last year and nobbled him quite well, didn't he?

Think Ruane was on Fenton

I'd say Durcan will take Kilkenny, Durcan now is what Keegan was in 2016/17

Doesn't matter who takes who if Clarke & co don't do any better on their kickouts.

I don't think Coen would be too comfortable in the corner.
Durcan on Kilkenny I would say.
On Keegan - is he in the corner now because Horan doesn't believe he has the legs to attack as he used to from the half back line?
One thing I noticed yesterday which I wouldn't ever have seen before... when he was outfielded by Quinlivan for an early goal chance he just stood with the head down and made no attempt to get back and recover - Clarkes save could easily have rebounded back into play. Barrett seemed to berate him afterwards for it. Anyway that's just a side point.
The match ups will be key for sure - but I do think Horan will play a covering player (probably a rotating one) in front of his full back line this time. I think he will err on the side of caution this time around.
In saying that though, the way the Dubs play nowadays is more about being patient in their build up play and probing for an opening (which they are brilliant at).
They aren't as likely to bomb in early ball to their full forward line as other teams.

Quote from: galwayman on December 07, 2020, 12:06:47 PM
I don't think Coen would be too comfortable in the corner.
Durcan on Kilkenny I would say.
On Keegan - is he in the corner now because Horan doesn't believe he has the legs to attack as he used to from the half back line?
One thing I noticed yesterday which I wouldn't ever have seen before... when he was outfielded by Quinlivan for an early goal chance he just stood with the head down and made no attempt to get back and recover - Clarkes save could easily have rebounded back into play. Barrett seemed to berate him afterwards for it. Anyway that's just a side point.
The match ups will be key for sure - but I do think Horan will play a covering player (probably a rotating one) in front of his full back line this time. I think he will err on the side of caution this time around.
In saying that though, the way the Dubs play nowadays is more about being patient in their build up play and probing for an opening (which they are brilliant at).
They aren't as likely to bomb in early ball to their full forward line as other teams.

Yeah, that was very poor from him and not the sort of thing he'd be known for.

I'd say Keegan is in the FB line simply because we don't have anyone else good enough rather than his legs being gone - although I'd wonder why Eoin O'D isn't in and around the squad, I thought he'd be a nailed on starter by now   

Quote from: galwayman on December 07, 2020, 12:06:47 PM
I don't think Coen would be too comfortable in the corner.
Durcan on Kilkenny I would say.
On Keegan - is he in the corner now because Horan doesn't believe he has the legs to attack as he used to from the half back line?
One thing I noticed yesterday which I wouldn't ever have seen before... when he was outfielded by Quinlivan for an early goal chance he just stood with the head down and made no attempt to get back and recover - Clarkes save could easily have rebounded back into play. Barrett seemed to berate him afterwards for it. Anyway that's just a side point.
The match ups will be key for sure - but I do think Horan will play a covering player (probably a rotating one) in front of his full back line this time. I think he will err on the side of caution this time around.
In saying that though, the way the Dubs play nowadays is more about being patient in their build up play and probing for an opening (which they are brilliant at).
They aren't as likely to bomb in early ball to their full forward line as other teams.

Can't see Coen playing corner back either. He'll be put on Scully or Bugler and try to drop off and sweep a bit too.

Barrett did well on Rock last year so will probably be on him again. If he's put on Con he'll get dragged out the field which we wouldn't want.

Mullin or Keegan on Con with the other on P Small. Durcan on Kilkenny then.

Mayo subs from yesterday (ones in bold played):

Hennelly
O'Hora
Plunkett
Brickendon
Higgins
Parsons
Flynn
Boland
Carr
Coen
Towey

Didn't think any of the subs did themselves any favours really except for Coen who got a couple of points

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 07, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Mayo subs from yesterday (ones in bold played):

Hennelly
O'Hora
Plunkett
Brickendon
Higgins
Parsons
Flynn
Boland
Carr
Coen
Towey

Didn't think any of the subs did themselves any favours really except for Coen who got a couple of points

Agreed. Parsons caught a couple of kickouts I think but was quiet enough apart from that.

Flynn seemed to be tracking Feehan for one of the Tipp goals. Conor Sweeney only got his 1-1 from play when Barrett went off for O'Hora.

Last year wasn't that long ago

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-hiding-mayo-s-many-mistakes-against-dublin-1.3984163

"I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan's goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.
Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before
Not that they'd say it in public, obviously, but it would have been a generally-held view in the Dublin dressing room that Mayo had that coming to them. It took nearly the whole decade for them to get there with Mayo but they did it. And if they can do it to Mayo, to the one team that have dogged them through their glory years, they can, obviously – and will, obviously – do it to anyone."

Quote from: square_ball on December 06, 2020, 11:40:25 PM
What's the story with Mannion this year? He's as good a forward as what's in the country imo but not starting. Surely he's far better than Paddy Small?

Don't understand the Small selection. Mannion is a level above Small and I have seen nothing from Small to make me change my mind on this.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 07, 2020, 12:10:12 PM

Quote from: galwayman on December 07, 2020, 12:06:47 PM
I don't think Coen would be too comfortable in the corner.
Durcan on Kilkenny I would say.
On Keegan - is he in the corner now because Horan doesn't believe he has the legs to attack as he used to from the half back line?
One thing I noticed yesterday which I wouldn't ever have seen before... when he was outfielded by Quinlivan for an early goal chance he just stood with the head down and made no attempt to get back and recover - Clarkes save could easily have rebounded back into play. Barrett seemed to berate him afterwards for it. Anyway that's just a side point.
The match ups will be key for sure - but I do think Horan will play a covering player (probably a rotating one) in front of his full back line this time. I think he will err on the side of caution this time around.
In saying that though, the way the Dubs play nowadays is more about being patient in their build up play and probing for an opening (which they are brilliant at).
They aren't as likely to bomb in early ball to their full forward line as other teams.

Yeah, that was very poor from him and not the sort of thing he'd be known for.

I'd say Keegan is in the FB line simply because we don't have anyone else good enough rather than his legs being gone - although I'd wonder why Eoin O'D isn't in and around the squad, I thought he'd be a nailed on starter by now   

My thoughts exactly. Very surprised he is not a starter in the fullback line for Mayo these days.
Seems to not even be on the extended panel at the moment?

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 07, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Mayo subs from yesterday (ones in bold played):

Hennelly
O'Hora
Plunkett
Brickendon
Higgins
Parsons
Flynn
Boland
Carr
Coen
Towey

Didn't think any of the subs did themselves any favours really except for Coen who got a couple of points

The bench would be the biggest concern for Mayo for this upcoming final IMO. Dublin will be bringing on like for like replacements and the last number of games they finished with a stronger team.

We have a better chance this year than ever I reckon.

Dublin will have no hill to drive them on. Dublin have had no test whatsoever. There is something different about us this time, a confidence in the unit that wasn't there before, likely driven by KMcD. Add to this we are completely written off by the "pundits" which ought to create a siege mentality.

Mayo by 2 or 3. This is our year. Winning is a habit and Dublin are good at it, but without their fantastic supporters this year I feel they will fail. We will know in a few weeks and if Dublin do it again without one of their major advantages I will be the 1st to applaud them.

Maybe i'm misremembering, but it feels like the first time in years that both O'Connors are 100% fit and in form.

One problem for Mayo is that the Dubs are flying. Playing better than last year, when perhaps the 5 in a row was a weight. But as highorlow said they've perhaps been tested less than usual, particularly in defence. And our own kickouts have been pretty much uncontested. Always seems odd that it's only Mayo (most of the time) and Kerry (some of the time) who try to put pressure on Cluxton. I'm sure the Dubs will try and pressurise almost all of Clarke's kickouts.

What going on here?

https://mobile.twitter.com/mayagaa_army/status/1335629934782509057

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-how-stiff-will-mayo-test-be-for-omnipotent-dublin-1.4429796

This all originated in a GAA sponsored effort to 'fix' the Dublin situation. Well, now they have fixed Dublin but the competition is broken.
Fortunately, Mayo-Dublin finals have been so riveting, they have glossed over so much of what went before.

And if it's close this time it will be glossed over again.

I think Mayo need to man mark Fenton, someone like Coen (or even O'Hora although I doubt he has the discipline) should be told to forget about getting on the ball, supporting play, etc. and only focus on being as close as possible to Fenton at all times. Far too often, he's allowed to come through the middle and either give or receive a hand pass to create a goal chance

Quote from: Rossfan on December 08, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
And if it's close this time it will be glossed over again.

I thought the Gooch's presence on TSG talking about the elephant in Croke Park was very significant.
Kerry basically saying "this thing is too big even for us".
This year was the one that very prominent GAA people started to speak out.
The Dubs will probably hammer MGHU, like they did last year.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 08, 2020, 11:01:06 AM
I think Mayo need to man mark Fenton, someone like Coen (or even O'Hora although I doubt he has the discipline) should be told to forget about getting on the ball, supporting play, etc. and only focus on being as close as possible to Fenton at all times. Far too often, he's allowed to come through the middle and either give or receive a hand pass to create a goal chance

Whatever happened to pick up your own man??

Or at the very least pick up the nearest man to you!!

Players getting sucked into the challenge, ending up creating space for the players running in is criminal.

Cavan and Tipp were so guilty of this at the weekend that it just created gaps all over the pitch, no one picking up or being able to stay with runners.

Its lazy and I mean that, they are lazy that they haven't got themselves fit enough or too a standard that is required and mentally lazy in that, sure someone else will pick them up if they run past me.

Teams play all sorts of systems to break down man markers and styles of play, but there is noting worse in a game that someone is touch tight the whole game, its annoying and very hard to get away from

Am I right in saying that if level at FT, there's no replay?

If so, it's extra time, then penalties?

Quote from: BennyCake on December 08, 2020, 12:45:16 PM
Am I right in saying that if level at FT, there's no replay?

If so, it's extra time, then penalties?

That is right

Clarke kicked the ball long on 10 occasions, Tipp won 9 of them.

Biden be the difference 2020

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2020, 11:54:11 AM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 08, 2020, 11:01:06 AM
I think Mayo need to man mark Fenton, someone like Coen (or even O'Hora although I doubt he has the discipline) should be told to forget about getting on the ball, supporting play, etc. and only focus on being as close as possible to Fenton at all times. Far too often, he's allowed to come through the middle and either give or receive a hand pass to create a goal chance

Whatever happened to pick up your own man??

Or at the very least pick up the nearest man to you!!

Players getting sucked into the challenge, ending up creating space for the players running in is criminal.

Cavan and Tipp were so guilty of this at the weekend that it just created gaps all over the pitch, no one picking up or being able to stay with runners.

Its lazy and I mean that, they are lazy that they haven't got themselves fit enough or too a standard that is required and mentally lazy in that, sure someone else will pick them up if they run past me.

Teams play all sorts of systems to break down man markers and styles of play, but there is noting worse in a game that someone is touch tight the whole game, its annoying and very hard to get away from

Easier said than done though, esp if it's someone like Fenton

Mayo didnt win their long kick out v Tipperary.

I would have serious doubts that they will win their own short kick out v Dublin given the limitations of their keeper.

I would love to see them winning but their own kick out will be their undoing I feel

David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Where you see that?

Quote from: reillycavan on December 08, 2020, 11:07:12 PM

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Where you see that?

Colm Keys in the independent

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:13:31 PM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 08, 2020, 11:07:12 PM

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Where you see that?

Colm Keys in the independent

Brian Gavin was saying it would be Gough

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

That's the ref who's partner is employed by CP?

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Now confirmed.
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/david-coldrick-to-referee-all-ireland-sfc-final/?

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 09, 2020, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Now confirmed.
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/david-coldrick-to-referee-all-ireland-sfc-final/?

Hopefully he's no connections to Dublin, or stayed in Dublin, had a Guinness in Dublin, flew from Dublin, or went to Coppers when he was young

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 09, 2020, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 08, 2020, 11:01:58 PM
David coldrick expected to referee the final.

Now confirmed.
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/david-coldrick-to-referee-all-ireland-sfc-final/?

Disaster. Along with the likes of Deegan and Derek O Mahony, Coldrick is a classic 'soft free' ref. He doesn't allow any form of tackle and will always give a free to the man in possession as soon as there is the slightest bit of contact. There's a good chance this final will now turn into a free taking competition between O Connor and Rock.

I'm just glad it's not gutless Joe.

I wonder if Cormac Reilly will be linesman?

What's the confidence level among Mayo supporters?

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 09, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
What's the confidence level among Mayo supporters?

In relation to what?

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 09, 2020, 09:34:11 PM

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 09, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
What's the confidence level among Mayo supporters?

In relation to what?

Ryan O'Donoghue having a great season. Won a couple frees and set  up a  couple other scores. Where was he last season?? Thought would have been brought sooner.

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 09, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
What's the confidence level among Mayo supporters?

Virtually non existent I'd say. While we're typically underdogs in finals, we always believe that there's some sort of chance of winning. I honestly can't see a credible set of circumstances where we win this game - we just have too many weaknesses at the moment; if we play at the top of our game, we'll hopefully make Dublin earn it.

Obviously there's always a chance in a two horse race but it's a very very slim one.

(https://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2013/05/market-square-castlebar-stabbing-390x285.png)

The Hype is incredible, the first flag was put out on Main St Castlebar today. There is talk of another Flag being put out during the week. Throughts of Christmas have been put on hold. Many have planned on the day to get up early and to drive out the N5 or go up to the Railway station to get the feeling of the Big day!

People have been told to not talk to players to keep the hype down. I was in the Bank of Ireland today and there was no one in the queue for to be attended by Keith Higgins.

We are not letting our impressive record against Dublin since 2012 get the better of us. It's not as easy as Pat Gilroy put it ''Being the 2nd best team of all time''.

Going to be hard to keep our feet on the ground for the next 10 days!

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 09, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
(https://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2013/05/market-square-castlebar-stabbing-390x285.png)

The Hype is incredible, the first flag was put out on Main St Castlebar today. There is talk of another Flag being put out during the week. Throughts of Christmas have been put on hold. Many have planned on the day to get up early and to drive out the N5 or go up to the Railway station to get the feeling of the Big day!

People have been told to not talk to players to keep the hype down. I was in the Bank of Ireland today and there was no one in the queue for to be attended by Keith Higgins.

We are not letting our impressive record against Dublin since 2012 get the better of us. It's not as easy as Pat Gilroy put it ''Being the 2nd best team of all time''.

Going to be hard to keep our feet on the ground for the next 10 days!

;D ;D
I like  it!

If that picture really is from Mayo, surely it should be raining?

The stars are aligning for Mayo.  Jim Gavin that never lost to Mayo in a league or championship game gone, Jack Mccaffrey whom would have taken up the attention of two markers not available, Supporters especially Hill 16 that is worth 3 or 4 points to Dublin gone. Current manager Dessie Farrell who had a habit losing underage matches that few thought they could lose. Benching two of their better players in Mannion, Howard and last but not least no hype in or on Mayo.

Theres zero hype in Mayo.I dont know if thats because of covid or the fact that most supporters dont give us much hope of beating Dublin.Tipp scored 3.13 against us and could have had another 5 or 6 goals.We are also having major trouble with our kickouts.This dosent bode well when your facing the dubs in a few days time.But who knows....Sport throws up surprises from time to time.Im going to throw out a few flags and enjoy the build up to the game.I will be watching this final in hope more so than expectation.Regardless of what happens it has been a good year for Mayo.Despite relegation we have introduced several new players that look at home at the top level and a connacht title was very nice.

Would make you wonder why Mayo even started training this year

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 09, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
(https://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2013/05/market-square-castlebar-stabbing-390x285.png)

The Hype is incredible, the first flag was put out on Main St Castlebar today. There is talk of another Flag being put out during the week. Throughts of Christmas have been put on hold. Many have planned on the day to get up early and to drive out the N5 or go up to the Railway station to get the feeling of the Big day!

People have been told to not talk to players to keep the hype down. I was in the Bank of Ireland today and there was no one in the queue for to be attended by Keith Higgins.

We are not letting our impressive record against Dublin since 2012 get the better of us. It's not as easy as Pat Gilroy put it ''Being the 2nd best team of all time''.

Going to be hard to keep our feet on the ground for the next 10 days!

Be careful and try to maintain social distancing when at the train station for the big day. Don't want too big a crowd to turn up for H&S reasons. Hopefully you won't get too much stick in your Dublin gear supporting them on the day

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2020, 11:46:28 PM
Would make you wonder why Mayo even started training this year

Should we have just given up??? An analysis of the 2 teams over the last few games would have Dublin as clear favourites.

Dublin - 12 @ 9/2
Mayo to win @ 9/2

   :(

I predict a Dublin win by 8 points.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 10, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
Dublin - 12 @ 9/2
Mayo to win @ 9/2

   :(

Is that 9/2 Mayo +12 points?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2020, 11:46:28 PM
Would make you wonder why Mayo even started training this year

When Kerry got beaten , that changed everything.
Mayo are probably not good enough this year to be in an All Ireland final.
2004 and 2006 come to mind, Mayo overachieved these years also.

If they're not good enough to be in an AI final then who is??

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 09:44:02 AM
If they're not good enough to be in an AI final then who is??

Well, not good enough to take on the Dubs, then who is ?

That's different from not deserving to be in a final lol.

We all thought Kerry might have a chance then Cork beat them.

On that basis no one is good enough to be in the final bar Dublin :P

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2020, 09:02:39 AM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 10, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
Dublin - 12 @ 9/2
Mayo to win @ 9/2

   :(

Is that 9/2 Mayo +12 points?

Nope - they will be around 1/5 + 12 points

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2020, 09:02:39 AM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 10, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
Dublin - 12 @ 9/2
Mayo to win @ 9/2

   :(

Is that 9/2 Mayo +12 points?

No chance, that's mayo straight!! Mayo +12 should be around the same as Dublin straight, 2/9 or so

When was the last time Dublin faced a team who actually got in their faces for 70 minutes instead of standing off them?

Tyrone in the league back in February?

That's not great preparation

Mayo have two months of serious competitive football under their belts

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 09:44:02 AM
If they're not good enough to be in an AI final then who is??

Nobody is.
Without the EUR 18m the Dubs might have had a decent team. They might have won 2015 and 2016 but no more
because the core team would have retired just as the 2012 Donegal team did.

One of the up and coming teams , say Mayo, would have won 2017 as the Dubs were rebuilding
Mayo won nothing and are now rebuilding. Same for Tyrone. The Dubs don't have to rebuild because they have a constant stream of top class match ready players.
It's a great system but the All Ireland has become a joke. 

They're not in their faces because they can't catch them.

SF did you have a dream about that or something? You can't say definitively any of that.

There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 10, 2020, 10:12:58 PM
There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

Dublin are the first county to win a 9th provincial title in a row and 5 All Ireland titles in a row

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 10, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
I predict a Dublin win by 8 points.

Yerra yerra as the boys in An Ciarrai would say 😉

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 10, 2020, 10:12:58 PM
There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

Ah stop😂😂😂😂.....

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 10, 2020, 10:12:58 PM
There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

i dont sense much cute hoorism coming from them. they are completely up against it and i think to be fair to them, most of their fans seem to realise that. everyone can see the lay of the land for the final. mayo need everything to go right for them and several things to go wrong for the dubs to really be in with a shout.

the build up is quieter this year anyway what with everything that's going on with covid, lack of crowds at games, no ticket scramble. the whole championship has been quiet.

Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:22:38 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 10, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
I predict a Dublin win by 8 points.

Yerra yerra as the boys in An Ciarrai would say 😉

That would be an improvement on our Chshp meeting from last year!

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on December 11, 2020, 12:10:17 AM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:22:38 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 10, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
I predict a Dublin win by 8 points.

Yerra yerra as the boys in An Ciarrai would say 😉

That would be an improvement on our Chshp meeting from last year!

Hasta la victoria siempre

Aquí se queda la clara,
la entrañable transparencia,
de tu querida presencia,
Comandante Che Guevara.

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 11, 2020, 12:44:12 AM

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on December 11, 2020, 12:10:17 AM

Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:22:38 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 10, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
I predict a Dublin win by 8 points.

Yerra yerra as the boys in An Ciarrai would say 😉

That would be an improvement on our Chshp meeting from last year!

Hasta la victoria siempre

Aquí se queda la clara,
la entrañable transparencia,
de tu querida presencia,
Comandante Che Guevara.

Dublin beat Mayo by 9 points last year after blowing us off the park in a 10 minute blitz after half time, yet people are claiming it is cute hoorism suggesting a similar outcome this year
In Mayo's last game they gave up 2 goal scoring opportunities to Tipperary in the first 5 minutes - if they were to do this against Dublin it would be game over

Mayo will keep playing, will keep coming back - siempre - but there has been nothing in the last year to suggest Dublin are any weaker than last year, whereas Mayo have been relegated from D1.
Mayo conceded 3-13 v Tipp, whereas the most Dublin have conceded is 12 points.

Dublin are unbeaten in 41 championship games straight and Mayo are 9/2 outsiders

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 10, 2020, 10:12:58 PM
There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

You're doing a good job on the oul cute-hoorism yourself. Hoping to beat Mayo. In a final. When our defence is coughing up scores, and when not coughing up  giving chances, with all due respect to Galway and Tipp, Dublin would have scored most of those misses. Our forwards clicked the last day undoubtedly. As someone here said they don't usually click in a final. It's hard to find any weak links in the Dublin setup.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 11, 2020, 09:09:46 AM

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 10, 2020, 10:12:58 PM
There's a lot of cute hoorism coming from Mayo supporters this year. This contrasts with the irrational exuberance of previous years. But like all finals this is a 50/50 game, just like the previous Dublin/Mayo finals - any one of which could have gone Mayo's way. Of course I'm hoping for a Dublin win but I won't tempt fate.....

You're doing a good job on the oul cute-hoorism yourself. Hoping to beat Mayo. In a final. When our defence is coughing up scores, and when not coughing up  giving chances, with all due respect to Galway and Tipp, Dublin would have scored most of those misses. Our forwards clicked the last day undoubtedly. As someone here said they don't usually click in a final. It's hard to find any weak links in the Dublin setup.

As Billy Joel would say "You May be Right". I hope you are ...  ;)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpt57dZ2CpE

If anyone has the belief to beat Dublin its Mayo but this Mayo side are in transition.

You look at their starting XV, guys like McLaughlin, Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue have come in and done well but they are all in their first real year of Championship football. I'd have my doubts on Loftus and Ruane in the middle as well.

I think if Mayo keep the game to 6 points and force Dublin to find a couple of gears they haven't had to yet for the majority of the game they will have given as good an account of themselves as anything could have.

The transition in Mayo has been impressive as they haven't had all that much underage success in recent years, Galway actually seem to have been the dominant force in Connacht in the past 5/6 years at underage. Horan seems to have an uncanny ability to bring on and develop players on an individual basis. I'd never heard of the likes of McLaughlin until this year but he's been a revelation. Carr was similar enough last year but seems to have fallen off the scene.

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
If anyone has the belief to beat Dublin its Mayo but this Mayo side are in transition.

You look at their starting XV, guys like McLaughlin, Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue have come in and done well but they are all in their first real year of Championship football. I'd have my doubts on Loftus and Ruane in the middle as well.

I think if Mayo keep the game to 6 points and force Dublin to find a couple of gears they haven't had to yet for the majority of the game they will have given as good an account of themselves as anything could have.

The transition in Mayo has been impressive as they haven't had all that much underage success in recent years, Galway actually seem to have been the dominant force in Connacht in the past 5/6 years at underage. Horan seems to have an uncanny ability to bring on and develop players on an individual basis. I'd never heard of the likes of McLaughlin until this year but he's been a revelation. Carr was similar enough last year but seems to have fallen off the scene.

What McLaughlin was up too. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/playing-no-football-four-years-just-shows-talented-220405 Horan in his spell managing Westport knew all about him.

Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue  was all part of the Mayo U20 team that reached the U20 All-Ireland final in 2018. Mullin didn't play in the final due to injury.  The other 11 starters have the experience of playing in either All-Ireland semi or senior finals in the past.

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 11, 2020, 01:18:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
If anyone has the belief to beat Dublin its Mayo but this Mayo side are in transition.

You look at their starting XV, guys like McLaughlin, Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue have come in and done well but they are all in their first real year of Championship football. I'd have my doubts on Loftus and Ruane in the middle as well.

I think if Mayo keep the game to 6 points and force Dublin to find a couple of gears they haven't had to yet for the majority of the game they will have given as good an account of themselves as anything could have.

The transition in Mayo has been impressive as they haven't had all that much underage success in recent years, Galway actually seem to have been the dominant force in Connacht in the past 5/6 years at underage. Horan seems to have an uncanny ability to bring on and develop players on an individual basis. I'd never heard of the likes of McLaughlin until this year but he's been a revelation. Carr was similar enough last year but seems to have fallen off the scene.

What McLaughlin was up too. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/playing-no-football-four-years-just-shows-talented-220405 Horan in his spell managing Westport knew all about him.

Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue  was all part of the Mayo U20 team that reached the U20 All-Ireland final in 2018. Mullin didn't play in the final due to injury.  The other 11 starters have the experience of playing in either All-Ireland semi or senior finals in the past.

It's all the more remarkable McLaughlin has made the impact he has when he was out of football for so long at that age.

I'm a little unconvinced by O'Donoghue yet, looks nowhere near the physical levels needed and I think he could struggle badly against Dublin if he plays. I'd be surprised if Horan starts him. Think he probably needs another few years to get to that level but you had the likes of McDonagh last year who made a big impression for Mayo. Horan certainly seems to have something about him that can bring players on awful lot in a short space of time.

The turnover in the Mayo squad in the past two years is mammoth.

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 01:43:36 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 11, 2020, 01:18:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
If anyone has the belief to beat Dublin its Mayo but this Mayo side are in transition.

You look at their starting XV, guys like McLaughlin, Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue have come in and done well but they are all in their first real year of Championship football. I'd have my doubts on Loftus and Ruane in the middle as well.

I think if Mayo keep the game to 6 points and force Dublin to find a couple of gears they haven't had to yet for the majority of the game they will have given as good an account of themselves as anything could have.

The transition in Mayo has been impressive as they haven't had all that much underage success in recent years, Galway actually seem to have been the dominant force in Connacht in the past 5/6 years at underage. Horan seems to have an uncanny ability to bring on and develop players on an individual basis. I'd never heard of the likes of McLaughlin until this year but he's been a revelation. Carr was similar enough last year but seems to have fallen off the scene.

What McLaughlin was up too. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/playing-no-football-four-years-just-shows-talented-220405 Horan in his spell managing Westport knew all about him.

Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue  was all part of the Mayo U20 team that reached the U20 All-Ireland final in 2018. Mullin didn't play in the final due to injury.  The other 11 starters have the experience of playing in either All-Ireland semi or senior finals in the past.

It's all the more remarkable McLaughlin has made the impact he has when he was out of football for so long at that age.

I'm a little unconvinced by O'Donoghue yet, looks nowhere near the physical levels needed and I think he could struggle badly against Dublin if he plays. I'd be surprised if Horan starts him. Think he probably needs another few years to get to that level but you had the likes of McDonagh last year who made a big impression for Mayo. Horan certainly seems to have something about him that can bring players on awful lot in a short space of time.

The turnover in the Mayo squad in the past two years is mammoth.

Horan has picked unchanged team in the last 3 games i think the same team will start again unless any late injuries. New faces was needed after getting well beaten by Kerry, Dublin last year and knocked out of Connacht by Roscommon. After this championship one would expect a lot of retirements K Higgins, C Boyle, T Parsons, D Vaughan, S O Shea etc who saw Little or no game time this year will likely call time on their county careers.

If we're going to have a chance of beating Dublin, we'll need to disrupt Cluxton somehow. I think we need to put a few early diagonal balls in around the square (dropping just on the edge of the small rectangle) - chances are Cluxton will be well able for it but if he has a collison or two with Aido, it might give him something to think about and he won't be his usual imperious self; we might even get a score or two out of it. The hard part of that plan though is getting the right quality of ball in and I'm not sure who we really have for that, possibly McLoughlin? I think it's something we should try 4-5 times anyway; if Cluxton plays the way he normally does, it won't end well for us

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 11, 2020, 02:23:43 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 01:43:36 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 11, 2020, 01:18:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 11, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
If anyone has the belief to beat Dublin its Mayo but this Mayo side are in transition.

You look at their starting XV, guys like McLaughlin, Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue have come in and done well but they are all in their first real year of Championship football. I'd have my doubts on Loftus and Ruane in the middle as well.

I think if Mayo keep the game to 6 points and force Dublin to find a couple of gears they haven't had to yet for the majority of the game they will have given as good an account of themselves as anything could have.

The transition in Mayo has been impressive as they haven't had all that much underage success in recent years, Galway actually seem to have been the dominant force in Connacht in the past 5/6 years at underage. Horan seems to have an uncanny ability to bring on and develop players on an individual basis. I'd never heard of the likes of McLaughlin until this year but he's been a revelation. Carr was similar enough last year but seems to have fallen off the scene.

What McLaughlin was up too. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/playing-no-football-four-years-just-shows-talented-220405 Horan in his spell managing Westport knew all about him.

Mullin, Conroy and O'Donoghue  was all part of the Mayo U20 team that reached the U20 All-Ireland final in 2018. Mullin didn't play in the final due to injury.  The other 11 starters have the experience of playing in either All-Ireland semi or senior finals in the past.

It's all the more remarkable McLaughlin has made the impact he has when he was out of football for so long at that age.

I'm a little unconvinced by O'Donoghue yet, looks nowhere near the physical levels needed and I think he could struggle badly against Dublin if he plays. I'd be surprised if Horan starts him. Think he probably needs another few years to get to that level but you had the likes of McDonagh last year who made a big impression for Mayo. Horan certainly seems to have something about him that can bring players on awful lot in a short space of time.

The turnover in the Mayo squad in the past two years is mammoth.

Horan has picked unchanged team in the last 3 games i think the same team will start again unless any late injuries. New faces was needed after getting well beaten by Kerry, Dublin last year and knocked out of Connacht by Roscommon. After this championship one would expect a lot of retirements K Higgins, C Boyle, T Parsons, D Vaughan, S O Shea etc who saw Little or no game time this year will likely call time on their county careers.

I would expect one change but we'll see. I think O'Donoghue will drop out for someone like Parsons or Flynn.

I wasn't convinced before the Tipperary game but I think O'Donoghue will keep his place now. His low centre of gravity and acceleration means he draws a lot of fouls. John Small has a history of picking up cards in finals so here's hoping!

Conor Loftus is the one player who might lose out if Horan wants a bigger midfield.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2020, 03:24:07 PM
If we're going to have a chance of beating Dublin, we'll need to disrupt Cluxton somehow. I think we need to put a few early diagonal balls in around the square (dropping just on the edge of the small rectangle) - chances are Cluxton will be well able for it but if he has a collison or two with Aido, it might give him something to think about and he won't be his usual imperious self; we might even get a score or two out of it. The hard part of that plan though is getting the right quality of ball in and I'm not sure who we really have for that, possibly McLoughlin? I think it's something we should try 4-5 times anyway; if Cluxton plays the way he normally does, it won't end well for us

How to disrupt Cluxton isn't about the high ball, it's to take control of his kickouts away from him. Which is in reality 10,000 times more difficult in practice than in theory. For the theory behind it is quite simple:

1. Press up and don't allow short restarts.
2. As soon as there's a wide or a score, immediately man his left half-back and left half-forward channel, even if there's no Dubs in it yet, as that's his preferred option for quickly launching counterattacks from kickouts.
3. Once closed off, immediately swarm his far right channel at exactly midfield, as that's his fallback when 1 and 2 are closed out, and Dublin are exceptionally quick to recognise this situation and swamp this channel, to tilt the breaking ball percentage on their favour.

As I say I don't know if you can really prevent all 3 all of the time. But if Mayo force no.3 and then more than break even with these restarts, then Clucko might have to some thinking on his feet. Which, let's be honest, he rarely has to do.

Greatest keeper of all time by a distance by the way. But the patterns are there.

Quote from: thewobbler on December 11, 2020, 04:10:10 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 11, 2020, 03:24:07 PM
If we're going to have a chance of beating Dublin, we'll need to disrupt Cluxton somehow. I think we need to put a few early diagonal balls in around the square (dropping just on the edge of the small rectangle) - chances are Cluxton will be well able for it but if he has a collison or two with Aido, it might give him something to think about and he won't be his usual imperious self; we might even get a score or two out of it. The hard part of that plan though is getting the right quality of ball in and I'm not sure who we really have for that, possibly McLoughlin? I think it's something we should try 4-5 times anyway; if Cluxton plays the way he normally does, it won't end well for us

How to disrupt Cluxton isn't about the high ball, it's to take control of his kickouts away from him. Which is in reality 10,000 times more difficult in practice than in theory. For the theory behind it is quite simple:

1. Press up and don't allow short restarts.
2. As soon as there's a wide or a score, immediately man his left half-back and left half-forward channel, even if there's no Dubs in it yet, as that's his preferred option for quickly launching counterattacks from kickouts.
3. Once closed off, immediately swarm his far right channel at exactly midfield, as that's his fallback when 1 and 2 are closed out, and Dublin are exceptionally quick to recognise this situation and swamp this channel, to tilt the breaking ball percentage on their favour.

As I say I don't know if you can really prevent all 3 all of the time. But if Mayo force no.3 and then more than break even with these restarts, then Clucko might have to some thinking on his feet. Which, let's be honest, he rarely has to do.

Greatest keeper of all time by a distance by the way. But the patterns are there.

That would be a better option alright but much harder to execute and I'm not sure we have the players for it

Mayo are going into this game battle hardened with nothing to lose and it's a free hit for them. Horan has plenty of experience as he has been here before while It's Dessie Farrell's 1st final and the dubs even by there standards have strolled into the final without being tested.

While I think the dubs will win I don't think they'll stroll it like people are predicting. If Mayo can start well and get an early lead I think they'll have a great chance.

Quote from: dublin7 on December 11, 2020, 07:20:21 PM
Mayo are going into this game battle hardened with nothing to lose and it's a free hit for them. Horan has plenty of experience as he has been here before while It's Dessie Farrell's 1st final and the dubs even by there standards have strolled into the final without being tested.

While I think the dubs will win I don't think they'll stroll it like people are predicting. If Mayo can start well and get an early lead I think they'll have a great chance.

All of the above might be true, but at the end of the day Dublin will win pulling up.

Apologies if covered already ...any reason for the game being on Saturday at half 5 instead of Sunday?

Despite the difference in money and sponsorship between the two teams. One who has reached the promised land recently and the other who has had a few chances in the last decade or so of finally getting their hands on the holy grail, but not sealing the deal. Hard to believe it is something they have not done since the '50's! All the same Waterford have a great chance this weekend!

Quote from: dublin7 on December 11, 2020, 07:20:21 PM
Mayo are going into this game battle hardened with nothing to lose and it's a free hit for them. Horan has plenty of experience as he has been here before while It's Dessie Farrell's 1st final and the dubs even by there standards have strolled into the final without being tested.

While I think the dubs will win I don't think they'll stroll it like people are predicting. If Mayo can start well and get an early lead I think they'll have a great chance.

"battle hardened"?  ;D ;D

Up the Dubs.

Quote from: ballinaman on December 11, 2020, 09:43:25 PM
Apologies if covered already ...any reason for the game being on Saturday at half 5 instead of Sunday?

So the Dublin lads can have a good lie in and to make it as awkward as possible for the Rhubarbs.

Quote from: ballinaman on December 11, 2020, 09:43:25 PM
Apologies if covered already ...any reason for the game being on Saturday at half 5 instead of Sunday?

I think it starts at 5 pm on Saturday, wouldn't want you to miss the first few Dublin goals !

Quote from: Halfquarter on December 12, 2020, 12:12:48 PM

Quote from: ballinaman on December 11, 2020, 09:43:25 PM
Apologies if covered already ...any reason for the game being on Saturday at half 5 instead of Sunday?

I think it starts at 5 pm on Saturday, wouldn't want you to miss the first few Dublin goals !

I'd be just in time for the gallant fight back against the AIG blue Dubs franchise

Dublin by a massive margin . in fairness to the players of Dublin I pity what they are going to have to listen to if they do annihilate  us which I do expect them to do.  Football is obviously not an exact science but Fenton against our midfield and con o callaghan against our FB line , holy God it's scary thinking about it . Keegan is playing rubbish and I just dont see what people are raving about as if chris barrett is safe as houses , hes not , well past it . Mullen is a great prospect but again his man marking is poor . Clarkes kickouts , I have this awful thought of us conceding lots of goals early and Clarke losing the plot completely kicking balls into Dublin attackers chest .

16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Larry. . . Yea but tell us what you really think

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
Dublin by a massive margin . in fairness to the players of Dublin I pity what they are going to have to listen to if they do annihilate  us which I do expect them to do.  Football is obviously not an exact science but Fenton against our midfield and con o callaghan against our FB line , holy God it's scary thinking about it . Keegan is playing rubbish and I just dont see what people are raving about as if chris barrett is safe as houses , hes not , well past it . Mullen is a great prospect but again his man marking is poor . Clarkes kickouts , I have this awful thought of us conceding lots of goals early and Clarke losing the plot completely kicking balls into Dublin attackers chest .

16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

If you give me odds on Mayo +16 I'd bite your hand off!

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
Dublin by a massive margin . in fairness to the players of Dublin I pity what they are going to have to listen to if they do annihilate  us which I do expect them to do.  Football is obviously not an exact science but Fenton against our midfield and con o callaghan against our FB line , holy God it's scary thinking about it . Keegan is playing rubbish and I just dont see what people are raving about as if chris barrett is safe as houses , hes not , well past it . Mullen is a great prospect but again his man marking is poor . Clarkes kickouts , I have this awful thought of us conceding lots of goals early and Clarke losing the plot completely kicking balls into Dublin attackers chest .

16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Sorry but you're not the first. It's going to be competitive for most of the first half and once the Dubs get a few points up and then the first goal goes in an it will suddenly dawn on the Mayo players that there's no way of getting back into it and it'll be steady procession towards the inevitable Dublin win by whatever number takes their fancy.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/ae11665e2ae726f15bd9359a1a7dbb4f/tenor.gif)

Quote from: thejuice on December 12, 2020, 07:09:44 PM

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
Dublin by a massive margin . in fairness to the players of Dublin I pity what they are going to have to listen to if they do annihilate  us which I do expect them to do.  Football is obviously not an exact science but Fenton against our midfield and con o callaghan against our FB line , holy God it's scary thinking about it . Keegan is playing rubbish and I just dont see what people are raving about as if chris barrett is safe as houses , hes not , well past it . Mullen is a great prospect but again his man marking is poor . Clarkes kickouts , I have this awful thought of us conceding lots of goals early and Clarke losing the plot completely kicking balls into Dublin attackers chest .

16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Sorry but you're not the first. It's going to be competitive for most of the first half and once the Dubs get a few points up and then the first goal goes in an it will suddenly dawn on the Mayo players that there's no way of getting back into it and it'll be steady procession towards the inevitable Dublin win by whatever number takes their fancy.

Will we all give up predicting though if mayo went out and beat Dublin?

Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

Jim McGuinness has.

(https://e1.365dm.com/20/10/768x432/skysports-gaa-predictions-all_5152428.png?20201027205329)

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

It's a final, it's a two-horse race - so of course either team can win. There has to be a favourite and next weekend for obvious reasons Dublin are favourites. But that guarantees nothing. Mayo have suffered a lot at the hands of Dublin over the past ten years so maybe Mayo supporters are taking the attitude of "once bitten twice shy" and are reluctant to hope out loud.

There you go, looks like The Hill is Blue is backing Mayo!

That's a turn up for the books!

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on December 12, 2020, 08:39:12 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

It's a final, it's a two-horse race - so of course either team can win. There has to be a favourite and next weekend for obvious reasons Dublin are favourites. But that guarantees nothing. Mayo have suffered a lot at the hands of Dublin over the past ten years so maybe Mayo supporters are taking the attitude of "once bitten twice shy" and are reluctant to hope out loud.

And we're the team that's come closest!
God help all others

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2020, 09:16:00 PM
There you go, looks like The Hill is Blue is backing Mayo!

That's a turn up for the books!

You've nothing to fear but fear itself  ;)

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Westmeath lost by 11 points a few weeks ago to Dublin. Mayo losing by more than Westmeath did would say more about Mayos performance in the final than Dublins.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

19 people here are.

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2020, 12:06:00 AM

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Westmeath lost by 11 points a few weeks ago to Dublin. Mayo losing by more than Westmeath did would say more about Mayos performance in the final than Dublins.

Westmeath game was in Portlaoise. Dubs rarely dish out as high a score outside Croke Park. Despite what some might make you believe  playing on your own patch has familiarity and easier to implement practiced tactics.

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
Dublin by a massive margin . in fairness to the players of Dublin I pity what they are going to have to listen to if they do annihilate  us which I do expect them to do.  Football is obviously not an exact science but Fenton against our midfield and con o callaghan against our FB line , holy God it's scary thinking about it . Keegan is playing rubbish and I just dont see what people are raving about as if chris barrett is safe as houses , hes not , well past it . Mullen is a great prospect but again his man marking is poor . Clarkes kickouts , I have this awful thought of us conceding lots of goals early and Clarke losing the plot completely kicking balls into Dublin attackers chest .

16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

That's the difference, isn't it, Dublin won't be going with any weak links, there are three or four  players ready to step in to each position.

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 10:28:50 AM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2020, 12:06:00 AM

Quote from: larryin89 on December 12, 2020, 06:27:12 PM
16 plus in favour of Dublin,  you heard it here first .

Westmeath lost by 11 points a few weeks ago to Dublin. Mayo losing by more than Westmeath did would say more about Mayos performance in the final than Dublins.

Westmeath game was in Portlaoise. Dubs rarely dish out as high a score outside Croke Park. Despite what some might make you believe  playing on your own patch has familiarity and easier to implement practiced tactics.

The fact Croke Park pitch is much better for their style of football, the Westmeath game was their first of the season and Westmeath put everyone behind the ball and played to keep the score down are some of the actual reasons for the scoreline.

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
Westmeath game was in Portlaoise. Dubs rarely dish out as high a score outside Croke Park. Despite what some might make you believe  playing on your own patch has familiarity and easier to implement practiced tactics.

familiarity is no such problem when it comes to Croke Park for Mayo and its believed they play their best football on that pitch.

Quote from: dublin7 on December 13, 2020, 01:35:23 PM


The fact Croke Park pitch is much better for their style of football, the Westmeath game was their first of the season and Westmeath put everyone behind the ball and played to keep the score down are some of the actual reasons for the scoreline.

Dublin had played two league games going into that match, 22 scores Dublin got not a lot different from the amount of scores in the other Leinster championship matches the main difference is Westmeath didn't allow Dublin in for easy goals unlike Laois, Meath.

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2020, 02:56:05 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
Westmeath game was in Portlaoise. Dubs rarely dish out as high a score outside Croke Park. Despite what some might make you believe  playing on your own patch has familiarity and easier to implement practiced tactics.

familiarity is no such problem when it comes to Croke Park for Mayo and its believed they play their best football on that pitch.

Quote from: dublin7 on December 13, 2020, 01:35:23 PM


The fact Croke Park pitch is much better for their style of football, the Westmeath game was their first of the season and Westmeath put everyone behind the ball and played to keep the score down are some of the actual reasons for the scoreline.

Dublin had played two league games going into that match, 22 scores Dublin got not a lot different from the amount of scores in the other Leinster championship matches the main difference is Westmeath didn't allow Dublin in for easy goals unlike Laois, Meath.

Mayo play much better football inside of Croke Park than they do outside of it

The main players all have had serious game time there over the past few years

Even some of the younger lads have played there with their clubs and schools

The Croke Park pitch looks in poor enough shape today.

Quote from: whitey on December 13, 2020, 03:08:25 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 13, 2020, 02:56:05 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
Westmeath game was in Portlaoise. Dubs rarely dish out as high a score outside Croke Park. Despite what some might make you believe  playing on your own patch has familiarity and easier to implement practiced tactics.

familiarity is no such problem when it comes to Croke Park for Mayo and its believed they play their best football on that pitch.

Quote from: dublin7 on December 13, 2020, 01:35:23 PM


The fact Croke Park pitch is much better for their style of football, the Westmeath game was their first of the season and Westmeath put everyone behind the ball and played to keep the score down are some of the actual reasons for the scoreline.

Dublin had played two league games going into that match, 22 scores Dublin got not a lot different from the amount of scores in the other Leinster championship matches the main difference is Westmeath didn't allow Dublin in for easy goals unlike Laois, Meath.

Mayo play much better football inside of Croke Park than they do outside of it

The main players all have had serious game time there over the past few years

Even some of the younger lads have played there with their clubs and schools

So what?

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 13, 2020, 09:42:19 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

19 people here are.

Really?
Even the kids I'm listening to don't believe that Mayo can win. It's a first for me. The kids always used to believe we could win. Now they are like kids that realise there is no Santa anymore. It's kinda sad.

After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The one thing Dublin do have is the knowledge that they have been troubled by better Mayo teams in the past which should at least help them go into the game with more confidence.

Quote from: moysider on December 13, 2020, 10:35:04 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 13, 2020, 09:42:19 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

19 people here are.

Really?
Even the kids I'm listening to don't believe that Mayo can win. It's a first for me. The kids always used to believe we could win. Now they are like kids that realise there is no Santa anymore. It's kinda sad.

There must be some Kerry lads making a serious killing in Mayo with their "School Of Yerra"

Seems the whole county has been taking classes in playing the poor mouth

They're learnin' yis well

Meanwhile the Mayo squad is deep in concentration preparing to be Dubsleighers

Santa Claus may not be coming this year but Samta Claus might be

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 11:37:31 PM

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The one thing Dublin do have is the knowledge that they have been troubled by better Mayo teams in the past which should at least help them go into the game with more confidence.

The one hope the rest of us have is that this might be a better Mayo team.

It clearly isn't at midfield (in terms of ball winning potential anyway, but it is more athletic now), and probably isn't in defence (not quite as clearcut; for there's no madness like Vaughan about this year) but probably is better up front (4 experienced and flying fit players in good form, 2 young lads who seem to thrive in big spaces).

We would also hope that unlike in previous finals, if the game is in the balance, Mayo can reinforce at 55 minutes, with players - Higgins, Boyle, Parsons - who are proven at the level, and a shooting forward in Coen. It's not Dublin's bench, but it doesn't have to be. They're only playing for 15-20 mins.

It's the hope that kills you.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:44:59 PM

Quote from: moysider on December 13, 2020, 10:35:04 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 13, 2020, 09:42:19 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

19 people here are.

Really?
Even the kids I'm listening to don't believe that Mayo can win. It's a first for me. The kids always used to believe we could win. Now they are like kids that realise there is no Santa anymore. It's kinda sad.

There must be some Kerry lads making a serious killing in Mayo with their "School Of Yerra"

Seems the whole county has been taking classes in playing the poor mouth

They're learnin' yis well

Meanwhile the Mayo squad is deep in concentration preparing to be Dubsleighers

Santa Claus may not be coming this year but Samta Claus might be

Why would there be confidence?

Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 11:37:31 PM

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The one thing Dublin do have is the knowledge that they have been troubled by better Mayo teams in the past which should at least help them go into the game with more confidence.

The one hope the rest of us have is that this might be a better Mayo team.

It clearly isn't at midfield (in terms of ball winning potential anyway, but it is more athletic now), and probably isn't in defence (not quite as clearcut; for there's no madness like Vaughan about this year) but probably is better up front (4 experienced and flying fit players in good form, 2 young lads who seem to thrive in big spaces).

We would also hope that unlike in previous finals, if the game is in the balance, Mayo can reinforce at 55 minutes, with players - Higgins, Boyle, Parsons - who are proven at the level, and a shooting forward in Coen. It's not Dublin's bench, but it doesn't have to be. They're only playing for 15-20 mins.

It's the hope that kills you.

But there is no hope! There is no Hype. It reminds me of 2006. We knew our fate that year and were only hoping to stay in the game for as long as possible.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 11:44:59 PM

Quote from: moysider on December 13, 2020, 10:35:04 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 13, 2020, 09:42:19 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 12, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
Is there anyone anywhere predicting a Rhubarb victory??

19 people here are.

Really?
Even the kids I'm listening to don't believe that Mayo can win. It's a first for me. The kids always used to believe we could win. Now they are like kids that realise there is no Santa anymore. It's kinda sad.

There must be some Kerry lads making a serious killing in Mayo with their "School Of Yerra"

Seems the whole county has been taking classes in playing the poor mouth

They're learnin' yis well

Meanwhile the Mayo squad is deep in concentration preparing to be Dubsleighers

Santa Claus may not be coming this year but Samta Claus might be

But it's honestly not yerra, of course there is always a little hope in your heart , that's what being a supporter is all about imo.

My sister a very staunch supporter all her life , living in the UK,  travels over to all championship games and is the most positive person I have ever known , she is off the scale positive personality , she is genuinely of the opinion we will be bet out the gate . It really took me by surprise,  everyone I know is of the opinion we are not up to the task this year but most of us think Horan could very well be building a very good side for the next couple of years. 

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 14, 2020, 12:01:02 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on December 13, 2020, 11:53:44 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2020, 11:37:31 PM

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The one thing Dublin do have is the knowledge that they have been troubled by better Mayo teams in the past which should at least help them go into the game with more confidence.

The one hope the rest of us have is that this might be a better Mayo team.

It clearly isn't at midfield (in terms of ball winning potential anyway, but it is more athletic now), and probably isn't in defence (not quite as clearcut; for there's no madness like Vaughan about this year) but probably is better up front (4 experienced and flying fit players in good form, 2 young lads who seem to thrive in big spaces).

We would also hope that unlike in previous finals, if the game is in the balance, Mayo can reinforce at 55 minutes, with players - Higgins, Boyle, Parsons - who are proven at the level, and a shooting forward in Coen. It's not Dublin's bench, but it doesn't have to be. They're only playing for 15-20 mins.

It's the hope that kills you.

But there is no hope! There is no Hype. It reminds me of 2006. We knew our fate that year and were only hoping to stay in the game for as long as possible.

If this was a league game I'd expect Mayo to lose gallantly while making a game out of it 6 times out of 10, to draw 1, win 1, and get demolished twice.

For reasons that's hard to explain, in championship I'd expect two of those gallant defeats to be converted into Dublin demolitions.

So I'm going 40% chance of a demolition and 60% chance this game will be in the balance at 60 minutes.

They're not great odds. But there is hope.

It's the hope that kills you.

It's 3 years since 2017!

Most of the Big stalwarts of that 2013-2017 group are retired, dropped from the panel, peripheral squad members or are just an older version of that player.

We have the weakest midfield we've had in a generation. Our Full back line is thrown together. Our Goalkeeper is weak at kick outs.

We have not beaten Dublin in Championship or League in 8 years.

Any confidence in this game borders on stupidity.

Only a month or so ago we were third favourite behind Kerry and Donegal to give Dublin a game this year.

We were relegated from Division One.

We barely beat an average Galway team and would have lost only for a last minute intervention from McLoughlin.

Last year we were hammered in the semi-final by this team.

We are playing away against a team who have not lost a Championship game in 6 years.

Quote from: larryin89 on December 14, 2020, 12:03:22 AM
most of us think Horan could very well be building a very good side for the next couple of years.

Clarke, Barrett, Keegan, McLoughlin, O Shea will not be around in a couple of years. Cillian O'Connor will be in his 30s and likely past his best by then. Now is the time for those players. The backdoor returning for 2021 who knows when Mayo will reach another All Ireland final and Horan could well step down after a early exit from the championship next year.

dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 14, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
It's 3 years since 2017!

Most of the Big stalwarts of that 2013-2017 group are retired, dropped from the panel, peripheral squad members or are just an older version of that player.

We have the weakest midfield we've had in a generation. Our Full back line is thrown together. Our Goalkeeper is weak at kick outs.

We have not beaten Dublin in Championship or League in 8 years.

Any confidence in this game borders on stupidity.

Only a month or so ago we were third favourite behind Kerry and Donegal to give Dublin a game this year.

We were relegated from Division One.

We barely beat an average Galway team and would have lost only for a last minute intervention from McLoughlin.

Last year we were hammered in the semi-final by this team.

We are playing away against a team who have not lost a Championship game in 6 years.

Mayo don't have 500 championship standard subs orbiting the team to fill gaps as soon as they emerge.
Mayo depend on the 19th century approach of using players until they can no longer perform.
Meath and Kildare are exactly the same.
They should all concentrate harder and stop complaining. 
And it's not about money.

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 14, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
It's 3 years since 2017!

Most of the Big stalwarts of that 2013-2017 group are retired, dropped from the panel, peripheral squad members or are just an older version of that player.

We have the weakest midfield we've had in a generation. Our Full back line is thrown together. Our Goalkeeper is weak at kick outs.

We have not beaten Dublin in Championship or League in 8 years.

Any confidence in this game borders on stupidity.

Only a month or so ago we were third favourite behind Kerry and Donegal to give Dublin a game this year.

We were relegated from Division One.

We barely beat an average Galway team and would have lost only for a last minute intervention from McLoughlin.

Last year we were hammered in the semi-final by this team.

We are playing away against a team who have not lost a Championship game in 6 years.

Yerra

You will find pundits trying to build the game up this week when the reality is that Mayo have little hope. Cillian O'Connor scored 4-9 against Tipperary but I'd be surprised if he gets more then a couple of points from play against the Dubs. The Dubs don't concede too many scoreable free kicks either. Then where does the rest of the Mayo scores come from given that you would expect that they will need close to 20 points to win this match. They don't appear to have enough prolific forwards. Their best chance is to make it a chaotic game, score a few goals and hope that they can rattle Dublin particularly on the Cluxton kick out. Unfortunately I just can't see this happening, Dublin have too many aces up their sleeve, I just hope Mayo can at least make it competitive and that we get a decent match that is at least in the balance with 20 minutes to go.   

Mayo are probably 2 years away from a team that can win Sam.
By the time they get to 2022 the Dubs will be 3 years ahead of them.

Mayo and everyone else are playing a game they can't win.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 11:09:13 AM
Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC andAOS would win their battles?

Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The gap between Limerick and Waterford is bigger than the gap between Dubs and Mayo.

Although there are at least 3 other teams as good as Waterford, maybe more.

Close to certain in my view that Limerick with 3 or 4 of the next 5.

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:49:30 PM

Quote from: Joeythelips on December 13, 2020, 11:34:25 PM
After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The gap between Limerick and Waterford is bigger than the gap between Dubs and Mayo.

Although there are at least 3 other teams as good as Waterford, maybe more.

Close to certain in my view that Limerick with 3 or 4 of the next 5.

Are you sure the gap between dublin and mayo is bigger than limerick waterford? Probably worth revisiting that post after the game as I am not so sure...

Yes Limerick will dominate as much as you say I think. Tipp or Galway probably a bit better than Waterford so Waterford not necessarily the second best team whereas I think Mayo are.

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:42:21 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 11:09:13 AM
Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

Quote from: StPatsAbu on December 14, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything.  Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 12:54:53 PM

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:42:21 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 11:09:13 AM
Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

Hadn't noticed that re Cillian. Fair enough. Rock doesn't get all his, but it is unexpected when he misses.

If Dublin don't start Howard then Mayo will definitely have more kickouts options than Dublin if keepers are forced to kick long. Hard to imagine us not starting Howard, but I've been saying that for the last 2 games too!

Mayo tend to make the mistake of leaving AOS isolated. They can do that against anyone else and Aidan still has a big impact.  Against the Dubs he needs to have his collegagues close so he can 1v1 versus his opponent.

It wouldn't suprise me if the Dubs start Philly McMahon for Cooper in this match in a horses for courses selection. Cooper tends to panic under high balls as we have seen previously, most notably in last years AI final and again in the first half against Cavan when he should have been black carded. O'Se against Cooper in the air is one area where Mayo could get some success, the problem is going to be in getting enough quality ball into him.   

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 01:04:54 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 12:54:53 PM

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:42:21 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 11:09:13 AM
Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

Hadn't noticed that re Cillian. Fair enough. Rock doesn't get all his, but it is unexpected when he misses.

If Dublin don't start Howard then Mayo will definitely have more kickouts options than Dublin if keepers are forced to kick long. Hard to imagine us not starting Howard, but I've been saying that for the last 2 games too!

Mayo tend to make the mistake of leaving AOS isolated. They can do that against anyone else and Aidan still has a big impact.  Against the Dubs he needs to have his collegagues close so he can 1v1 versus his opponent.

Yeah, in previous games against Dublin, he's been left very isolated. He took two high balls against Tipp and Conroy was very close to him even if he didn't receive the ball so I'd be hopeful that the two of them can play off each other like that.

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:56:20 PM

Quote from: StPatsAbu on December 14, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything.  Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

Emergence of Cluxton?

Cluxton was a Dublin player for over a decade before he won an All Ireland and just shy of his 30th birthday for his first win.

Not surprisingly we have a Dublin unionist talking out of his hole again to defend the inadequacies in the funding system.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 14, 2020, 01:53:27 AM
dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

If you arent taking the piss I will humour you Angelo.

Who are the 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better?

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 01:50:43 PM
One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Quote from: Taylor on December 14, 2020, 02:22:18 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

If you arent taking the piss I will humour you Angelo.

Who are the 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better?

Morgan
Beggan
Patton
Galligan


Patton has probably the best kickouts in the business but is very iffy under a high ball. How well do you think Cluxton would do on kickouts if he had to hit Tyrone players against a full Dublin press? How much easier would Morgan's job be if he had Fenton, James McCarthy, Brian Howard and Kilkenny to hit?

Cluxton's job as a goalkeeper is some much easier than any other keeper in Ireland has it.

Quote from: yellowcard on December 14, 2020, 02:36:11 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 01:50:43 PM
One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

Luck and experience are two of the most important factors of being good on the line. Dessie certainly doesn't have as much of the latter as Jim had. Jim got away with a couple of howlers in the earlier part of his career, like taking off Fenton v Mayo in a semi final and emptying the bench too early in the final the following year I think.

While our bench is strong this year, I don't think it's a strong as in some years. But the team itself is full of leaders and capable of making adjustments on the pitch, which has to be a help.

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2020, 02:14:31 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 14, 2020, 01:53:27 AM
dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

Form in semi finals especially is almost entirely irrelevant.
I'm not sure what happened to the Mayo defence v Tipp in that it was so open for so many goal chances. But I would imagine they would have been able to figure out what went wrong and fix it for Saturday. It's not like the Mayo lads don't know how to defend.

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 14, 2020, 02:23:22 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 01:50:43 PM
One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

Was Farrell manager when Mayo beat Dublin in the U21 semi in 2016?

Filled with nerves about this one, thinking this is where it ends. it will be tight but Mayo have a great shout and lets be honest, a lot of the pressure is off them this year.

No Fans, no tickets, some baggage gone.

Hoping for a good open entertaining game. Mayo always bring it.

Quote from: Crete Boom on December 14, 2020, 02:58:39 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on December 14, 2020, 02:23:22 PM

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 14, 2020, 01:50:43 PM
One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

He was poor in tight matches at underage level. 2011 All Ireland minior final against Tipperary. 2013 Leinster U21 championship v Longford and All-Ireland U21 semi final in 2015 against Tipperary.

Was Farrell manager when Mayo beat Dublin in the U21 semi in 2016?

Indeed he was.

Quote from: Hound on December 14, 2020, 12:56:20 PM

Quote from: StPatsAbu on December 14, 2020, 12:46:20 PM
Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything. Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

I know this is definitely off-topic and I don' want to create any more cul de sacs but the reasons decentralisation failed can't be blamed on rural politicians' infighting.
That's what Berit said after a feed of beer one night in Fagan's anyway.
The main reason, sez he, was that senior civil servants resisted the change. By and large, they enjoyed a comfortable way of life in Dublin and would have to forego their golf club memberships etc. Another big baulk was the certainty that they would henceforth have to pay accommodation for their children, who without doubt would most likely be going on to third level education.
Furthermore, it is inconceivable that Bertie o. did not know that the proposal would be a definite non-starter, given the resistance of the civil service.
It was an election ploy that codded the electorate and returned FF to power once more.

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:45:05 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on December 14, 2020, 02:36:11 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

The keepers you named are all good keepers in their own right and in fact I'd give Galligan the All Star goalkeeper right now if the awards were being handed out. However I wouldn't take any of them over Cluxton who has performed at the highest level under the greatest scrutiny for the best part of 2 decades. And I don't think many would, you are simply allowing anti Dublin sentiment to cloud your judgement. Some of them may play better over a 3-4 game spell and the gap is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago but I think you do a great disservice to Cluxton who will go down as the greatest goalkeeper in GAA history. 

Quote from: yellowcard on December 14, 2020, 03:44:35 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:45:05 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on December 14, 2020, 02:36:11 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?

You need to take the blinkers off, I certainly don't see any never mind 4 or 5.

Why don't you see them?

Galligan's display against Dublin was absolutely immense a couple of weeks back.

People have been conditioned or brainwashed into thinking Cluxton is far ahead of the rest and Dublin will crumble without him

It's absolute nonsense.

If Tyrone played Fermanagh in a Championship game, Morgan is going to put on a clinic because Tyrone have that edge on the Fermanagh players and he will be able to find them again and again and again.

How do you think Cluxton would fair if he was in goals for Roscommon or Fermanagh or Westmeath?

Why did Dublin's success only really take off 10 years after he made his Championship debut?

The keepers you named are all good keepers in their own right and in fact I'd give Galligan the All Star goalkeeper right now if the awards were being handed out. However I wouldn't take any of them over Cluxton who has performed at the highest level under the greatest scrutiny for the best part of 2 decades. And I don't think many would, you are simply allowing anti Dublin sentiment to cloud your judgement. Some of them may play better over a 3-4 game spell and the gap is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago but I think you do a great disservice to Cluxton who will go down as the greatest goalkeeper in GAA history.

So you are making no allowance for the team Cluxton is in?

It's not an anti-Dublin sentiment. It's the opposite in fact. I think this Dublin team is far and away better than any other team in the country and that's one of the reasons people overrate Cluxton, their outfield players are so much better than every other team.

Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

Because they didn't let him take the frees until 2011.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Why didn't Peter Canavan not win and all Ireland from 1989 to 2003 if he was one of the greatest forwards of all time, sorry man but your argument is flawed.

" THE DUBS ROBBED HIM IN 1995 ETC ETC "

Also Dublin underachieved in the 2000s, for a few different reasons.

For me, Cluxton has been the most influential goalkeeper of all time; his influence on the development of no, 1 position can't be matched by anyone else.
His pinpoint kickouts were unheard oif before his arrival on the scene. It's quite possible that others may have had accurate restarts but he brought the art centre stage.
Possession football which plagues us today can be blamed on Stephen Cluxton! ;D
He also was the first goalie of note to take 45s and other long range frees and look at how many other keepers have followed his lead.
How many years now since he became Dublin's captain?
I can't imagine that sentiment has been a factor for any of the Dublin managers he has played under.
Above all else, he must be the oldest player by a distance that has played intercounty for a top county in the history of the GAA.
Keep in mind that I am not a Dub's fan and that Dublin's dominance will ruin the GAA but, to give credit where it's due, Cluxton has been the most influential keep of all time.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:15:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Why didn't Peter Canavan not win and all Ireland from 1989 to 2003 if he was one of the greatest forwards of all time, sorry man but your argument is flawed.

" THE DUBS ROBBED HIM IN 1995 ETC ETC "

Also Dublin underachieved in the 2000s, for a few different reasons.

Because Tyrone were a one man team playing in the best footballing province in the country in a time where no backdoor existed.

Five different Ulster counties won an All Ireland during Canavan's county career. Paddy Russell fucked us over in 95 and the Meath tried to end Canavan's career through pure thuggery and trampishness the year after.

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Cluxton is a master at kick outs and can kick long range frees, but he can't kick points for the forwards or play in the full back line as a man marker at the same time. It's factors like this that meant Dublin didn't win an All Ireland until 2011, not Cluxton letting the team down.

I'm convinced you're just trolling people at this stage on this and all the other threads and laughing at all of us for taking your click bait. 

Quote from: dublin7 on December 14, 2020, 04:26:34 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Cluxton is a master at kick outs and can kick long range frees, but he can't kick points for the forwards or play in the full back line as a man marker at the same time. It's factors like this that meant Dublin didn't win an All Ireland until 2011, not Cluxton letting the team down.

I'm convinced you're just trolling people at this stage on this and all the other threads and laughing at all of us for taking your click bait.

I didn't say it was a case of Cluxton letting the team down or that it was a case that he still wasn't the best keeper in the country.

But there is a narrative built up that without Cluxton Dublin are not half the team they are which is pure scutter.

Dublin will be no worse off when Comerford or whoever succeeds him in goals. The real success of this Dublin teams is the absolute quality they have across every line.

Cluxton was the first but there are now a number of keeper at his level.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:15:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Why didn't Peter Canavan not win and all Ireland from 1989 to 2003 if he was one of the greatest forwards of all time, sorry man but your argument is flawed.

" THE DUBS ROBBED HIM IN 1995 ETC ETC "

Also Dublin underachieved in the 2000s, for a few different reasons.

The main reason was because Dublin was flaky in the 2000s

Clarke v Cluxton
Mullin v Small
Barrett v Rock
Keegan v O'Callaghan
Durcan v KK
Coen v Bugler
McLaughlin v Scully
Loftus v McCarthy
Ruane v Fenton
McLoughlin v McDaid
ROD v Small
DOC v Murchin
Conroy v Bryne
AOS v Cooper
COC v Fitzsimons

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2020, 05:08:02 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:15:19 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:14:01 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 14, 2020, 04:03:30 PM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 14, 2020, 03:58:49 PM
Should all we heard over the last 7 or 8 years is how do you stop Cluxtons kick outs.  Have they give up or? :)

Not only is he up there with one of the greatest Keepers of all time, he is up there with one of the greatest Players of all time.

You must take everything into account i.e he may not be the best shop stopper in the country, but you have to take in longevity, medals, leadership on and off the field, how to go about your business.

I heard numerous Inter county keepers saying they follow the Cluxton model, or inspire to be close to his talent.

Why did Dublin not win an All Ireland in his first 10 seasons if he was one of the greatest players of all time?

1 player does not make a team.

But surely if he's one of the greatest players of all time he should have won an All Ireland for Dublin in that time? Dublin and Kerry have always been the two heavyweights of the game.

There's no doubt Cluxton has been the best keeper of his generation or that he revolutionised the role of a keeper.

But that does not mean that his importance is overstated. His job is made so much easier than any other keeper about because of the players around him, when that quality of player wasn't there he never appeared in an All Ireland final. It took him his 11th season as Dublin no 1 to get there.

It's easier for Cluxton to look better than other keepers because he plays with better players. It's easier for Cluxton to get his kickouts right because he is passing the best coached and best physically conditioned team in the country.

You swap Beggan, Morgan, Patton, Galligan in for Cluxton and Dublin are no worse off. His worth is hugely overstated.

Why didn't Peter Canavan not win and all Ireland from 1989 to 2003 if he was one of the greatest forwards of all time, sorry man but your argument is flawed.

" THE DUBS ROBBED HIM IN 1995 ETC ETC "

Also Dublin underachieved in the 2000s, for a few different reasons.

The main reason was because Dublin was flaky in the 2000s

Absolutely.

Quote from: Hound on December 06, 2020, 04:10:13 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2020, 03:58:46 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2020, 02:41:50 PM
Kilkenny beat Waterford by 23 points in the 2008 All-Ireland final

By the reckoning of some on this board, Waterford should have refused to play rather than face a Kilkenny team which was going to massacre them

Will you quit making an eejit of yourself. Kilkenny had no advantage over Waterford in 2008, unless you count their not having a football team.

Kilkenny had the advantage of having a far superior set of players. Just like Dublin had over Cavan and Mayo have over Tipp. When you're good you're good. That Kilkenny team and this Dublin team also have in common that they are ruthless. Mayo looking pretty ruthless today too.

Dublin's ruthlessness is counterproductive.
The GAA spent €18 m on them.

They didn't develop into a superb team fair and square. Everyone knows that

So what if they win 6 in a row. The GAA destroyed their own competition.

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2020, 02:14:31 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 14, 2020, 01:53:27 AM
dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

their 2016/17 team was better than the current incarnation, in my opinion. they had a stronger midfield and had better defenders. i actually tipped mayo to win that final in 2016 as i felt there was just something about them that year. they were very steely, an experienced squad, andy moran had an indian summer, lee keegan was in great form. their performance against tyrone that year sealed it in my mind that they were going to give it a proper rattle, and they did. i still feel they should have gotten over the line that year.

comparatively, this year, i think their midfield has massively regressed - there was a time when mayo wouldn't be bested by any team in the country at midfield, except maybe dublin, but that's no longer there to my eye. the current pairing can't seem to field a ball between them. they also don't have the same caliber of defender as boyle in that back 6. barrett is aging, harrison seems to have vanished, higgins off the pace it seems. the young lad mullin has pace, but doesn't seem to have any sense of what it means to actually mark someone, he could get an awful land on saturday. keegan is absolutely wasted in the corner and fouls too much for that position.

in comparison, dublin don't seem to have dipped at all, in fact i think they've improved since 2017, especially at midfield. fenton is borderline unmarkable at this stage. kilkenny pulling all the strings and seems to have learned how to do a bit more than just handpass the ball about the place. feel sorry for whoever has to mark o'callaghan. and even if mayo manage to get the measure of those three, you can be sure three others will pop up somewhere else to shine on the day. that's the problem with dublin - you can't really target two or three players and gain an upper hand through match-ups, because there's always other players who will see it as an opportunity to take the game by the scruff of the neck. you're constantly plugging holes against them, all over the pitch.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 15, 2020, 02:30:30 AM

Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2020, 02:14:31 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 14, 2020, 01:53:27 AM
dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

their 2016/17 team was better than the current incarnation, in my opinion. they had a stronger midfield and had better defenders. i actually tipped mayo to win that final in 2016 as i felt there was just something about them that year. they were very steely, an experienced squad, andy moran had an indian summer, lee keegan was in great form. their performance against tyrone that year sealed it in my mind that they were going to give it a proper rattle, and they did. i still feel they should have gotten over the line that year.

comparatively, this year, i think their midfield has massively regressed - there was a time when mayo wouldn't be bested by any team in the country at midfield, except maybe dublin, but that's no longer there to my eye. the current pairing can't seem to field a ball between them. they also don't have the same caliber of defender as boyle in that back 6. barrett is aging, harrison seems to have vanished, higgins off the pace it seems. the young lad mullin has pace, but doesn't seem to have any sense of what it means to actually mark someone, he could get an awful land on saturday. keegan is absolutely wasted in the corner and fouls too much for that position.

in comparison, dublin don't seem to have dipped at all, in fact i think they've improved since 2017, especially at midfield. fenton is borderline unmarkable at this stage. kilkenny pulling all the strings and seems to have learned how to do a bit more than just handpass the ball about the place. feel sorry for whoever has to mark o'callaghan. and even if mayo manage to get the measure of those three, you can be sure three others will pop up somewhere else to shine on the day. that's the problem with dublin - you can't really target two or three players and gain an upper hand through match-ups, because there's always other players who will see it as an opportunity to take the game by the scruff of the neck. you're constantly plugging holes against them, all over the pitch.

There had to be a team in the final to play Dublin. None of them are ready. None of them could be ready.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-dublin-may-be-a-bridge-too-far-but-mayo-s-spirit-will-never-be-broken-1

Kevin McStay: Dublin may be a bridge too far but Mayo's spirit will never be broken
Mayo will be defined by football as long as the game exists – there will always be another year


One of the unexpected joys of lockdown was that I found music again. Like most teenagers, I was nuts about music. But then I lost it. So during the first lockdown – the fine weather and endless walks – I started listening to old heroes like Ry Cooder and Bob Dylan and Neil Young. Why did I stop? Life got in the way. Instead of putting music on in the car you'd stick on a podcast or the news. So it felt like finding an old friend.

And this time I began to listen to Leonard Cohen properly for the first time and, in particular, his end of life album, You Want It Darker. No question mark. It's been the soundtrack to my winter and it occurred to me that it is almost the perfect soundtrack and title to the last decade of following Mayo's All-Ireland final story. They have been played an unholy hand of cards in those games.

In the first three years from 2011 to 2013, they beat the reigning champions but failed to win a final. In 2015, they a lost semi-final to Dublin who went on to win and start this historic sequence. I think the 2017 All-Ireland final might well be the best game of football I have ever seen. That Mayo team took us to the brink and they were breathtakingly close to taking the final magical step. But by autumn, the All-Ireland winners were somewhere else and we had to wait for Mayo to come again. If you want it darker, give us another 12 months.

That sense of failing or not quite getting there goes back all the way back to 1951 in terms of All-Ireland senior finals we have lost. But there is a contradiction in the recent chapter. Those 10 years also provided so many great, great days. The days of our lives. It is impossible to break the faith of a Mayo supporter. They may grouse and swear never again and admit that it is too much to keep going "up" to see them fall short in some final or other. But try and keep them away! Only a pandemic could keep Mayo people away from Dublin on an All-Ireland final weekend in which the green and red is flying. If this was a normal year, there'd be bucks landing in from JFK and Heathrow all week.

It's a funny thing. We think of 1951 as an untouchable past. But I was raised with All-Ireland winners all around me. Gerald Courell and Jackie Carney lived in Ballina. I was Gerald's messenger boy in his drapery shop when I was in national school. And he had talked to me for ages about winning All-Irelands as if that was the most natural thing in the world. But for him, it was. Seán Wynne was chairman of Bord Na nÓg and he was the goalkeeper on that double team. I met Seán Flanagan as a child. My father knew him and he was captain of those teams. And the confidence Seán exuded about Mayo's place in football was just magnificent.

When I was seven I got a brand new set of Mayo gear. I felt dynamite wearing it. I had to use elastics to keep the sleeves up and the white sole of the socks rolled up above my ankles and the shorts were far too loose. But I loved that rig-out. The only Mayo player I knew was Tommy O'Malley. I assumed he was the greatest footballer in Ireland. It was only when I grew up that I realised how tough his Mayo experience was. Tommy played from 1969 to 1981 when the team failed to win a single Connacht championship. It was barren. And I remember my father often saying, 'come on we will go to Tuam'. That was the height of adventure for Mayo supporters then.

And another highlight was doing the scoreboard in the park in Ballina during league games. I saw Seán O'Neill of Down play and that was a thrill. My first actual championship match was the Connacht final in 1975. A silver Ford driven by Mr Maughan, our teacher. Three kids squeezed into a car already filled with adults. Mayo had resurgent under age teams: an All-Ireland minor title in 1971 and an under-21 All-Ireland title in 1974.
     
The future looked brilliant. We were playing Sligo that day. The feeling was that it would be a handy one. They drew on a hot day. And a week later they were dumped out in Castlebar. A year after that, they lost to Leitrim. After that defeat, I later heard of a player and his mates who headed to Achill so they could nurse their wounds unnoticed. Fat chance. In the hotel toilets, the player was rumbled by a few irate islanders who wanted to have words and more over the disgrace brought to the jersey. They had to fight their way out of the jacks. That's what playing for Mayo was like then.

Tradition
And yet it pulls you in. Why? I keep coming back to the colours and that tradition and the oversized crest on the shirt – too big and uncool but gorgeous at the same time. And we kind of knew, as children, we were good or supposed to be good at this game. 'The double' was a conversation piece. The photographs were everywhere.

And 10 short years after that '75 game, I found myself playing for Mayo. And I remember we drew with Dublin in the 1985 All-Ireland semi-final. We were in the Ashling Hotel on the Liffey that evening. The squad was there and there was a lovely afterglow: a sense that we were back. When was the replay, someone asked. Who cares, he was told. I worked 200 yards from the Ashling, up in Collins Barracks. I was expected to report for duty at 09.00 hours the next morning. But by 21.00 hours that night I was in the Beaten Path outside Balla in the heart of Mayo. For the recovery session! I think we lost the replay around then.

In later years, when I was a pundit, I stopped going to Mayo finals. I volunteered to stay in the RTÉ studio. And often, when it looked as if the impossible might happen, I began to entertain ideas of grabbing a taxi over to Croke Park from Montrose, to hear the end of the speech or just breathe the air. But then the final whistle went and we would be back in the same place, all of us.

It is an addiction. If I stop for petrol in Swinford or Ballindine this week, someone will bump into me and want to know what I think about the game. Everyone wants to talk about football all the time in the county. And I admit: we become half mad with excitement and anticipation because we are very proud of our place in the game. Every town has their specific hero. Belmullet has Willie Joe. Ballindine has Colm Boyle. Ballintubber has Prendergast. Ballinrobe has O'Malley. Ballyhaunis has Zippy Higgins. Balla has TJ. Ballina has Liam Mc. Ballycastle has Tom Langan. Ballagh' has Johnno. That's just the Bs! Claremorris has John P. Crossmolina has McDanger. Moygownagh has Larry. Shrule has the Morts. Gilvarry from Killala. And the Flying Doctor in Swinford.

They are everywhere. But when you remove yourself from the lifelong connection and love for Mayo and try and be rational, it is very difficult to look at Saturday four days out and coldly say: this is the year.

Now, this Mayo team has a lot going for them. They are full of pace and youth and running and I think we have a proper full forward line maybe for the first time since . . . ever. But for all that, it appears like an almost impossible challenge. So many things have to happen.

Can they find the right players to mark Fenton, Kilkenny, O'Callaghan and Rock and James McCarthy? Can we get our long kick out sorted? Can we function at midfield like you have to function in an All-Ireland final? Can we have several key players give the performance of a lifetime? Can we get any kind of kick from the bench? We have got 0-3 from our bench so far using 20 substitutes. All of these are real concerns and reasons to steel yourself for another year of waiting.

So what if we lose again on Saturday? Well, Mayo will keep going on. I was training Mayo in 1995 and we took an awful trimming against Galway. Marty Morrissey asked me: what now? And I remember saying on television: what do you think we will do? Will we give it up and try cricket or something? This is what we do.

No choice
There is no choice here. Mayo will be defined by Gaelic football for as long as the game exists. There will always be another year. Toby McWalter is a famous Mayo supporter. We had lost a final again. It was '04 or '06 and he came up to a gang of us in Citywest. It was late. We were shook. And he said: "Come on lads. Chin up. I just checked. You are all under age again next year."

And maybe I am just steeling myself here in this column. It's a process you go through as a Mayo supporter. You rationalise why the team probably won't win. Then, by Friday, you have produced a counter logic and you are convinced they can do it.

All I do know is that thankfully the players and management are in a bubble that this mood or this stuff does not permeate. They are thinking, as all teams must, that everything is going to just fall right and that they have a plan and are going to beat this crowd of Invincibles. And, of course, that is the point of sport. Sports people have unreasonable belief in themselves. The evidence is that this will be Dublin's sixth title. But unreasonable belief sometimes triumphs over logic.

Every so often I wonder about the collective experience the county has undergone since we flew home after losing the 1989 final. It was a dismal night but as the plane descended into Knock we could see the crowd, vast and loyal, in the drizzle. It was one of the most affecting things I have ever seen. We weren't favourites to win in 1989.

And the peculiar truth is that we have never been favourite to win any of the All-Ireland finals we played in since. No Mayo team has lost an All-Ireland final it was 'supposed' to win. But there were a few days when they could have won anyway. And I just wish we had experienced that joy that other counties have had.

Just that sense of accomplishment and completion and radiant happiness for your group of footballers and people. And yet there is outrageous pride that we keep on coming back. I absolutely take my hat off to that fearlessness.

There are players on that Mayo team who have every reason not to want to put themselves through another All-Ireland final against Dublin. But I know they can't wait for it and I know they believe just as much now as they did the first time. It's probably their greatest strength.

I know I love that about Mayo. And that I wouldn't be from anywhere else.

Kevin McStay

But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

Powerful piece. And it's all true as well.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

Makes it all the more logical that despite all the final defeats and ridicule that goes along with it he is till proud to be from Mayo!

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 15, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
Powerful piece. And it's all true as well.

Very powerful,  gave me the aul lump in the throat

Arah it's a lovely article and all that, but there's a match to be won. If the team has that attitude of "we love our football so we'll be back again after we lose", then we've no hope whatsoever.

Quote from: Tubberman on December 15, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Arah it's a lovely article and all that, but there's a match to be won. If the team has that attitude of "we love our football so we'll be back again after we lose", then we've no hope whatsoever.

Hup ya boy ya tubber , that's the attitude we need . Feel like a right windy fokker now after getting caught up in sentiment .

Quote from: larryin89 on December 15, 2020, 01:21:01 PM

Quote from: Tubberman on December 15, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Arah it's a lovely article and all that, but there's a match to be won. If the team has that attitude of "we love our football so we'll be back again after we lose", then we've no hope whatsoever.

Hup ya boy ya tubber , that's the attitude we need . Feel like a right windy fokker now after getting caught up in sentiment .

Great piece but by God I hope ye win it Saturday

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

It has to be quite challenging to live life with saying Roscommon in every sentence...a day in the life

"How's the form ? Ah not too bad, grand morning now Roscommon but afternoon isn't promised great"

"50 Diesel on pump 8 Roscommon, Thanks"

"Lamb chops Roscommon for dinner is it?"

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

I'm sure an erudite chap like you (ie total know-all) has heard of Lord Castlereagh.
He was once asked if he had  been born in Ireland and his classic retort was, "Being born in a  pig sty doesn't make one a pig."
Irrefutable logic.
By the same token, he could have added than living in one didn't make him one either.
The same applies to Kevin McStay.
Living in such an ungodly place didn't turn him into a sheepophile.
               

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 15, 2020, 03:06:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

I'm sure an erudite chap like you (ie total know-all) has heard of Lord Castlereagh.
He was once asked if he had  been born in Ireland and his classic retort was, "Being born in a  pig sty doesn't make one a pig."
Irrefutable logic.
By the same token, he could have added than living in one didn't make him one either.
The same applies to Kevin McStay.
Living in such an ungodly place didn't turn him into a sheepophile.
             

Love it 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

A glorious article.
Would love to read it in Ballina.

Quote from: ballinaman on December 15, 2020, 02:15:31 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

It has to be quite challenging to live life with saying Roscommon in every sentence...a day in the life

"How's the form ? Ah not too bad, grand morning now Roscommon but afternoon isn't promised great"

"50 Diesel on pump 8 Roscommon, Thanks"

"Lamb chops Roscommon for dinner is it?"

Mayowestros can't be left out either surely?

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 15, 2020, 03:06:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

I'm sure an erudite chap like you (ie total know-all) has heard of Lord Castlereagh.
He was once asked if he had  been born in Ireland and his classic retort was, "Being born in a  pig sty doesn't make one a pig."
Irrefutable logic.
By the same token, he could have added than living in one didn't make him one either.
The same applies to Kevin McStay.
Living in such an ungodly place didn't turn him into a sheepophile.
             

Ahhh Lairín he chose to live in Roscommon  ;)
A man in his position could have chosen to live 40 or so km further West in his own County.
If Ros is a pig sty what does it say about Meeyo?
Anyway our revenge is the laughter of his Ros supporting children  ;D

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 04:33:35 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 15, 2020, 03:06:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

I'm sure an erudite chap like you (ie total know-all) has heard of Lord Castlereagh.
He was once asked if he had  been born in Ireland and his classic retort was, "Being born in a  pig sty doesn't make one a pig."
Irrefutable logic.
By the same token, he could have added than living in one didn't make him one either.
The same applies to Kevin McStay.
Living in such an ungodly place didn't turn him into a sheepophile.
             

Ahhh Lairín he chose to live in Roscommon  ;)
A man in his position could have chosen to live 40 or so km further West in his own County.
If Ros is a pig sty what does it say about Meeyo?
Anyway our revenge is the laughter of his Ros supporting children  ;D

His wife a Roscommon woman I believe also. Three daughters are big Roscommon supporters, interesting household when Roscommon are playing Mayo no doubt.

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 04:33:35 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 15, 2020, 03:06:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

I'm sure an erudite chap like you (ie total know-all) has heard of Lord Castlereagh.
He was once asked if he had  been born in Ireland and his classic retort was, "Being born in a  pig sty doesn't make one a pig."
Irrefutable logic.
By the same token, he could have added than living in one didn't make him one either.
The same applies to Kevin McStay.
Living in such an ungodly place didn't turn him into a sheepophile.
             

Ahhh Lairín he chose to live in Roscommon  ;)
A man in his position could have chosen to live 40 or so km further West in his own County.
If Ros is a pig sty what does it say about Meeyo?
Anyway our revenge is the laughter of his Ros supporting children  ;D

I guess it is an unfortunate fact of life that, while we can choose our friends, we cannot select our neighbours.

Quote from: ballinaman on December 15, 2020, 02:15:31 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

It has to be quite challenging to live life with saying Roscommon in every sentence...a day in the life

"How's the form ? Ah not too bad, grand morning now Roscommon but afternoon isn't promised great"

"50 Diesel on pump 8 Roscommon, Thanks"

"Lamb chops Roscommon for dinner is it?"

Nice to see some of the old legends being remembered and honoured  ;)

Quote from: stephenite on December 15, 2020, 08:34:00 PM

Quote from: ballinaman on December 15, 2020, 02:15:31 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

It has to be quite challenging to live life with saying Roscommon in every sentence...a day in the life

"How's the form ? Ah not too bad, grand morning now Roscommon but afternoon isn't promised great"

"50 Diesel on pump 8 Roscommon, Thanks"

"Lamb chops Roscommon for dinner is it?"

Nice to see some of the old legends being remembered and honoured  ;)

Ya, always good to see the name. I'm sure he'd happy if the torch is passed...badly overdue !

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 14, 2020, 04:20:22 PM
For me, Cluxton has been the most influential goalkeeper of all time; his influence on the development of no, 1 position can't be matched by anyone else.
His pinpoint kickouts were unheard oif before his arrival on the scene. It's quite possible that others may have had accurate restarts but he brought the art centre stage.
Possession football which plagues us today can be blamed on Stephen Cluxton! ;D
He also was the first goalie of note to take 45s and other long range frees and look at how many other keepers have followed his lead.
How many years now since he became Dublin's captain?
I can't imagine that sentiment has been a factor for any of the Dublin managers he has played under.
Above all else, he must be the oldest player by a distance that has played intercounty for a top county in the history of the GAA.
Keep in mind that I am not a Dub's fan and that Dublin's dominance will ruin the GAA but, to give credit where it's due, Cluxton has been the most influential keep of all time.

Yep, can't argue with any of that. Given his conditioning and position he could play a few more years!
       

Quote from: ballinaman on December 15, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

Quote from: stephenite on December 15, 2020, 08:34:00 PM

Quote from: ballinaman on December 15, 2020, 02:15:31 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 12:34:30 PM
But has lived in Roscommon for many years ;D

It has to be quite challenging to live life with saying Roscommon in every sentence...a day in the life

"How's the form ? Ah not too bad, grand morning now Roscommon but afternoon isn't promised great"

"50 Diesel on pump 8 Roscommon, Thanks"

"Lamb chops Roscommon for dinner is it?"

Nice to see some of the old legends being remembered and honoured  ;)

Ya, always good to see the name. I'm sure he'd happy if the torch is passed...badly overdue !

For sure he would be. For a county that has produced good footballers it's hard to believe it's 69 years since we won it. Anyways as Tubberman said there's a game to be won.

For lads living in Dublin - what's the weather been like the past few days?
Saturday itself is due dry in the capital but if it's been raining all week in the lead up the pitch could be a mess.
It didn't look great for the hurling final.

Quote from: galwayman on December 16, 2020, 09:52:40 AM
For lads living in Dublin - what's the weather been like the past few days?
Saturday itself is due dry in the capital but if it's been raining all week in the lead up the pitch could be a mess.
It didn't look great for the hurling final.

Not a lot of rain thus far but its promised today apparently and the skies over north Dublin are very dark in fairness the last few hours . I'd say it will belt down at some stage .

23 people now predicting a Rhubarb victory  :o

Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2020, 05:37:36 PM
23 people now predicting a Rhubarb victory  :o

With good reason, I got mayo at 20/1 back in Mayo, I'm going to enjoy this! Got Mayo by 1-3 at 9/1 too, handy 200 there

Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on December 16, 2020, 09:25:43 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2020, 05:37:36 PM
23 people now predicting a Rhubarb victory  :o

With good reason, I got mayo at 20/1 back in Mayo, I'm going to enjoy this! Got Mayo by 1-3 at 9/1 too, handy 200 there

I barely know the output end of a horse from it's input end so see odds quoted are like football scores to me. ;D
But I am curious all the same.
What realistic odds on a Mayo win would I get if I went to the nearest bookie?

9/2 Lar

You can get 2/1 with paddy power on Dublin ladies men and under 20's to win.. better odds

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 16, 2020, 10:40:59 PM
9/2 Lar

and if you're not familiar with odds, that means if you put down €20 you lose €20

Mayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them. 

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

That's an honest appraisal coming from yourself. I'm relatively optimistic but would've preferred a windy day in Dublin to mess with Cluxtos kickouts. Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

Taking away the home supporters must be worth something for the away team, particularly if it's close.

I think we will do it this year, Mayo by 5+

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
Mayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

At least two of those would be starters for Mayo I'd say, maybe all 3

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

That's an honest appraisal coming from yourself. I'm relatively optimistic but would've preferred a windy day in Dublin to mess with Cluxtos kickouts. Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

Taking away the home supporters must be worth something for the away team, particularly if it's close.

I think we will do it this year, Mayo by 5+

Yeah look you have to fair, and as i said above, there were no tough games for Dublin this year, lets be honest they strolled them, they are going to get hit with a hurricane here and i hope they are ready for it.

Just on the fans thing, i was thinking no fans would help Mayo more, but now i am not so sure, as the Mayo Fans Drive them on too, Very loud an boisterous throughout all their battles with Dublin.

Hoping for good game. You will get no begrudgery from me if Mayo win it but obviously hoping the Dubs do it, my feeling is the dominance will not last and this could be our last one for a couple of years maybe, who knows. Cluxton 39 today too . . . could be his last.....

Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 17, 2020, 10:18:08 AM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
Mayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

At least two of those would be starters for Mayo I'd say, maybe all 3

If I'm picking the best 15 in the country 2 of them would be in the reckoning.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Mise?

Not going to go through whos a better player etc at this stage but people have short memories, if your only thinking of the last few years. He's a key part of it but obviously not the only reason for it.

Also people not taking into consideration outside of playing ability of what he brings to the set up, whether leadership skills or mentoring etc.

We're probably going to come under serious pressure on our own kickouts. Clarke isn't a brilliant kicker of the ball but when you look at the options he has to aim at, they're not great either:

Mullin/Barrett/Keegan - this is where Clarke would like to go but I presume Dublin will push right up and cut off these esp. if the game is in the balance

Coen/McLoughlin/Durcan - all decent options in the air but if one of these loses a high ball on the 45, the Dublin runner is straight in on goal, draws the cover, pops it inside and it's a goal

Ruane/Loftus - the best you can hope for here is that Ruane pulls Fenton away, Loftus/AN Other can break it and we swarm in to pick up the loose ball

DOC/ROD/McLoughlin - of these three, only DOC is likely to win a high ball and imo this should be our out ball if we're under pressure - midfield pulls to one wing, high ball to Diarmuid on the far touchline with a half back supporting

It doesn't make for hopeful reading tbh

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:45:54 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Mise?

Not going to go through whos a better player etc at this stage but people have short memories, if your only thinking of the last few years. He's a key part of it but obviously not the only reason for it.

Also people not taking into consideration outside of playing ability of what he brings to the set up, whether leadership skills or mentoring etc.

Cluxton has plenty of brainfarts but gets away with them because he plays for Dublin and the outfield lads make the difference. Think he had a horror show early on against Galway in the semi final two years back.

Who do yis put on Fenton? Durcan I think

Keegan on Kilkenny

Barrett on O'Callaghan

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 11:50:19 AM
Who do yis put on Fenton? Durcan I think

Keegan on Kilkenny

Barrett on O'Callaghan

Ruane on Fenton

Duncan on OCallaghan

Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:22:04 AM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:45:54 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Mise?

Not going to go through whos a better player etc at this stage but people have short memories, if your only thinking of the last few years. He's a key part of it but obviously not the only reason for it.

Also people not taking into consideration outside of playing ability of what he brings to the set up, whether leadership skills or mentoring etc.

Cluxton has plenty of brainfarts but gets away with them because he plays for Dublin and the outfield lads make the difference. Think he had a horror show early on against Galway in the semi final two years back.

You love singling out a negative like they are the rule as opposed to the exception.

You could point out the penalty saves in recent years against Geaney and Harte - AI final (2019) and semi-final (2017).
Made decent stops against O'Brien, Doherty, Murphy in recent finals as well. You could say that other keepers could have saved those, but that is his job... and he does it well.

You could point out Patton's mistake against Cavan that gifted them a goal and his poor fist pass that lead to Canavan's goal... or Beggan's daft kick at the end of the AI semi-final v Tyrone.. None of those incidents mean they are poor at their job or a liability either.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:45:54 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Mise?

Not going to go through whos a better player etc at this stage but people have short memories, if your only thinking of the last few years. He's a key part of it but obviously not the only reason for it.

Also people not taking into consideration outside of playing ability of what he brings to the set up, whether leadership skills or mentoring etc.

I don't see the leadership on the pitch and he comes across as being quiet enough, I don't doubt what you are saying btw, I just feel at times if Dublin threw in a junior b club keeper, they'd still win those All Irelands, that's how good they are

Quote from: Estimator on December 17, 2020, 12:01:20 PM

Quote from: Angelo on December 17, 2020, 11:22:04 AM

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:45:54 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Its crazy that you are looking at Cluxton as being one of the main reasons for Dublins dominance, teams nowadays just give up the kickouts, which automatically give the team possession. As a shot stopper he's been asked to do it less that the other keepers out there, but when he does he does it well.

I'm not knocking keepers btw

Mise?

Not going to go through whos a better player etc at this stage but people have short memories, if your only thinking of the last few years. He's a key part of it but obviously not the only reason for it.

Also people not taking into consideration outside of playing ability of what he brings to the set up, whether leadership skills or mentoring etc.

Cluxton has plenty of brainfarts but gets away with them because he plays for Dublin and the outfield lads make the difference. Think he had a horror show early on against Galway in the semi final two years back.

You love singling out a negative like they are the rule as opposed to the exception.

You could point out the penalty saves in recent years against Geaney and Harte - AI final (2019) and semi-final (2017).
Made decent stops against O'Brien, Doherty, Murphy in recent finals as well. You could say that other keepers could have saved those, but that is his job... and he does it well.

You could point out Patton's mistake against Cavan that gifted them a goal and his poor fist pass that lead to Canavan's goal... or Beggan's daft kick at the end of the AI semi-final v Tyrone.. None of those incidents mean they are poor at their job or a liability either.

Harte's penalty save was inconsequential and would have made no difference.

I pick out the negative in Cluxton as people overhype his performance to Dublin. His teammates have got him out of jail on many occasions.

Patton gets panned for his mistakes, Patton has probably the best kickouts in the game but he's a worry in the fact he makes mistakes. When those guys make mistakes, we hear about them but we really hear about Cluxton's meltdowns because his teammates are so good at getting him out of jail and therein lies the real reason.

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Exactly.

Mayo have been the only team to really put it up to Dublin since Donegal beat them in 2014.

The red card helped Kerry keep it competitive last year and a Cluxton meltdown gifted Kerry 2 goals in a 5 minutes spell in 2016 and Kerry couldn't get the job done on either occasion.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 17, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
Mayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Could well be an error by Dessie Farrell if he doesn't start Mannion, Howard.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

as i said, mayo could have and probably should have beaten them at least once in the last decade. they left 2013 in particular behind them. but kerry have never been quite on the same level as dublin in the last decade and despite attempts to drum up a rivalry between the two, i've never watched a kerry dublin game in the last 10 years and really thought that it was a game of equals. dublin have always been comfortably the better team.

Mayo have reached the final nine times since they last won the All-Ireland in 1951, and lost each time

In a desperate attempt to get a crucial edge ahead of Saturday's final, James Horan has turned to the one man who knows exactly how to stop ten in a row - Neil Lennon

Dublin beware

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

In all the cases you have mentioned. Not once did Mayo hold the lead going into the last 5 minutes! They were never in control. Never once has a referee made a big decision against Dublin.

That boat has now sailed. The present Mayo team are only a shadow of the 2013-17 version.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

+1
Have to agree with all that, sid.
The record is clear to see- Dublin rode their luck and were lucky to pull through at times. But where draws were concerned, they didn't make the same mistake and they never lost their cool when they had to dig deep and the result went down to the wire - as happened the '18 final.
I know that, for many, Kerry is being touted as the only viable threat to Dublin's dominance but I don't see this is the case. I'm going by the two games last year when Kerry, with their long tradition of success, could close out a game that Dublin seemed hell bent on throwing away.
Lesson learnt, Dublin made no mistake in the replay.
I've seen nothing since to indicate that Kerry have made progress and could pose a serious threat to Dublin. All the more so as they have dissension in the camp.
This may be at least a year too soon for Mayo but they won't get a better opportunity to end 69 years of waiting.
Frankly, I can't see any of the rest posing a threat to anyone- except possibly themselves.

2 days out from the all Ireland and not a single article from a Dublin pundit about how the ref needs to be cute enough for Mayo's cynicism; normally you'd expect the Keegan (v Tipp) and McLaughlin (v Galway) incidents to be the topic of several pieces by Brogan, Whelan, etc.

That's how little we worry the Dubs this year  :(

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 17, 2020, 07:44:02 PM
2 days out from the all Ireland and not a single article from a Dublin pundit about how the ref needs to be cute enough for Mayo's cynicism; normally you'd expect the Keegan (v Tipp) and McLaughlin (v Galway) incidents to be the topic of several pieces by Brogan, Whelan, etc.

That's how little we worry the Dubs this year  :(

+1

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 17, 2020, 07:33:13 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

+1
I've seen nothing since to indicate that Kerry have made progress and could pose a serious threat to Dublin. All the more so as they have dissension in the camp.

kerry are way off dublin at present and were way off them last year too. i see nothing to suggest that that will improve next year either. dublin simply have better players all over the pitch - better conditioning, better tackling, better athletes, better defending, better scorers, the whole lot. they've had better players all over the pitch against mayo too over the years (with the exception of a couple of the mayo lads here and there who were definitely as good as their dublin conterparts), but mayo's style over the last decade would have gotten under their skin a lot more than kerry's. kerry don't play with the wild intensity of mayo, they've never been as good at tackling as mayo have been. crucially, mayo just have never seemed to be that daunted by playing dublin. they're just not afraid of them. and i think that bothers dublin - they're used to teams just rolling over and being able to play every game on their own terms. mayo have often turned the tables on them in unexpected ways. kerry have neither the personel nor the playing style to really rattle dublin.

i think dublin would only love to hammer mayo in a final and put manners on them once and for all. i wouldn't be surprised to see that unfold on saturday. i think they'd like to dole out a beating that would even set them back a few years. i expect them to come charging out the gate and try to put it to bed early.

Dublin to win senior, under 20 and Ladies over the weekend is 2/1!

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 17, 2020, 07:44:02 PM
2 days out from the all Ireland and not a single article from a Dublin pundit about how the ref needs to be cute enough for Mayo's cynicism; normally you'd expect the Keegan (v Tipp) and McLaughlin (v Galway) incidents to be the topic of several pieces by Brogan, Whelan, etc.

That's how little we worry the Dubs this year  :(

LOL-remember the year the Dubs commercial director was given a guest slot on the Sunday Game to highlight some infringement by COC

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 09:40:10 PM
i think dublin would only love to hammer mayo in a final and put manners on them once and for all. i wouldn't be surprised to see that unfold on saturday. i think they'd like to dole out a beating that would even set them back a few years. i expect them to come charging out the gate and try to put it to bed early.

I'll be surprised if that happens as it 70s against Armagh since they hammered a team in All-Ireland final.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 17, 2020, 07:44:02 PM
2 days out from the all Ireland and not a single article from a Dublin pundit about how the ref needs to be cute enough for Mayo's cynicism; normally you'd expect the Keegan (v Tipp) and McLaughlin (v Galway) incidents to be the topic of several pieces by Brogan, Whelan, etc.

That's how little we worry the Dubs this year  :(

When have the dubs lads ever wrote a article  flagging Mayo cynicism outside Lee Keegan constant fouling in 2016?  Cant win if Whelan and Brogan  wrote article on Mayo constant fouling  this place(wouldn't take much) would go into meltdown.

I think Mayo need to catch themselves on here. They should have won 3 or 4  in the last 10 years alone only they messed up the opportunities. Now they are back with another cracking team.  Are they going to roll over again or win the damn thing.

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 09:40:10 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 17, 2020, 07:33:13 PM

Quote from: sid waddell on December 17, 2020, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: WhoDat on December 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM

Quote from: highorlow on December 17, 2020, 10:15:58 AM

QuoteMayo by 1 to 3 points, Dublin haven't been tested at all this year, Mayo a different animal, the intensity they bring to their Dublin games is unreal, Dublin could be caught out, However Dublin will probably require Mannion, Howard and Costello of the bench to save them.

Looking back at last year Dublin were not all that great and Kerry had them in the final only for David Morans fatigued passage of play.

would strongly disagree there. people seem to be very revisionist about the 2019 final already. dublin were completely in control of the first match and would have ran out very comfortable winners on the first day if they hadn't played an entire half with one man less. that kerry could only summon a draw in those circumstances speaks to the fact that it wasn't really a close game between equals. dublin wrapping it up comfortably the second day was a truer reflection of the reality of the gulf between the teams. both finals dublin played against kerry were nowhere near the same standard as those they played against mayo. mayo could have and should have beaten them at least once. kerry were never going to beat them realistically.

Dublin only won by one in 2013 despite getting at least one ridiculously soft goal - arguably two

Dublin could only summon a draw in 2016 even with two own goals

Dublin only won by a point in the replay in 2016 even though Mayo were down their best player for the entire second half, and only scored a goal because of penalty from a goalkeeping mistake, while Mayo were denied what should have been a penalty

Dublin only won by a point in 2017 despite scoring a goal in the first minute, - they should have played the last half an hour with a man less, Mayo should have had a penalty - so therefore Dublin should probably have lost

One could also argue that Dublin's goal in the 2019 replayed final should have been disallowed - which it should have been - it was clear overcarrying by Murchan

And that Kerry missed a penalty in the drawn final

Revisionism

+1
I've seen nothing since to indicate that Kerry have made progress and could pose a serious threat to Dublin. All the more so as they have dissension in the camp.

kerry are way off dublin at present and were way off them last year too. i see nothing to suggest that that will improve next year either. dublin simply have better players all over the pitch - better conditioning, better tackling, better athletes, better defending, better scorers, the whole lot. they've had better players all over the pitch against mayo too over the years (with the exception of a couple of the mayo lads here and there who were definitely as good as their dublin conterparts), but mayo's style over the last decade would have gotten under their skin a lot more than kerry's. kerry don't play with the wild intensity of mayo, they've never been as good at tackling as mayo have been. crucially, mayo just have never seemed to be that daunted by playing dublin. they're just not afraid of them. and i think that bothers dublin - they're used to teams just rolling over and being able to play every game on their own terms. mayo have often turned the tables on them in unexpected ways. kerry have neither the personel nor the playing style to really rattle dublin.

i think dublin would only love to hammer mayo in a final and put manners on them once and for all. i wouldn't be surprised to see that unfold on saturday. i think they'd like to dole out a beating that would even set them back a few years. i expect them to come charging out the gate and try to put it to bed early.

Yerra .ye are nearly as good as lads below in kerry for the yerra talk. Mayo to do a Donegal 92. I read somewhere Des farrell has never won All Ireland in first in previous Dubs roles.

I think that Mayo if they go all out to win and take their opportunities and don't shit the nest to win by 6 points. I really do...no distractions no big heads no excuses.

Quote from: macdanger2 on December 17, 2020, 07:44:02 PM
2 days out from the all Ireland and not a single article from a Dublin pundit about how the ref needs to be cute enough for Mayo's cynicism; normally you'd expect the Keegan (v Tipp) and McLaughlin (v Galway) incidents to be the topic of several pieces by Brogan, Whelan, etc.

That's how little we worry the Dubs this year  :(

Dublin are a very cynical and streetwise team, as much if not moreso than Mayo.

The O'Gara eyegouge barely got a mention on the coverage of the game a few years back, it was blatantly clear he knew what he was doing. When you compare and contrast that with the furore over Tiernan McCann who was vilified and correctly suspended as a result then you see it is one rule for one and another for another.

Some good podcasts from Ah Ref this week - the one from video analyst Paul Jennings was interesting, the amount of detail they go into is unreal

Dublin: Stephen Cluxton; David Byrne, Jonny Cooper, Michael Fitzsimons; Jack McCaffrey, James McCarthy, John Small; Brian Fenton (1-01), Michael Darragh Macauley; Niall Scully (0-01), Con O'Callaghan (2-00), Brian Howard (0-01); Paul Mannion (0-05), Dean Rock (0-06, 6f), Ciarán Kilkenny.

Subs: Cian O'Sullivan for MacAuley 49 mins; Eoin Murchan for Small 62 mins; Cormac Costello for Mannion 65 mins; Philly McMahon for Cooper 68 mins; Diarmuid Connolly for for Scully 70 mins;Paddy Andrews for O'Callaghan 70 mins.

Mayo: Rob Hennelly; Chris Barrett, Brendan Harrison, Stephen Coen (0-01); Lee Keegan (1-00), Colm Boyle (0-01), Patrick Durcan (0-02); Aidan O'Shea Séamus O'Shea (0-01); Fionn McDonagh, Donal Vaughan, Matthew Ruane; Cillian O'Connor (0-03, 2f), Diarmuid O'Connor, James Carr (0-01).

Subs: Keith Higgins for Vaughan 28 mins; Kevin McLoughlin for McDonagh 49 mins; Andy Moran for Carr 52 mins; Eoin O'Donoghue for Boyle 57 mins; Tom Parsons for Séamus O'Shea 60 mins; Fergal Boland (0-01, 1f) for Diarmuid O'Connor 68 mins.

The bolded players look like the starters.

I think it's fair to say both teams are probably a little below last year? Dublin have lost McCaffrey and phased a number of the old guard out.

Mayo seem to have gone into full transition, are they stronger or weaker? I really don't know, a lot of their players are on the wane and while the likes of Mullin, Conroy and McLaughlin have been very impressive and added a real freshness it's hard to guage. They could rightly to with the likes of Harrison and Doherty there if they were fit. Also worth noting last year that Diarmuid O'Connor and Ruane came in from the cold after long term injuries so should be much more in form this time around.

Dublin gave Mayo their first trimming last year in all the times they met in that decade and my gut tells me it could be similar tomorrw. I'll go with Dublin between 6-10 points.

Dublin play a very patient game where they like to move the ball about until they have a banker scoring opportunity, they don't take risky shots on. Mayo in contrast play a frenetic, blitzreig game which has unsettled the Dublin tempo in the past. I just think this Mayo side, with a lot of young and inexperienced players there might not have the physicality to enact that this time around.

Is it Coldrick in the middle tomorrow? I think letting it flow will suit Mayo.

The Arctic Monkeys do Mayo

This is excellent

The power pop-punk tune on a GAA theme we've always waited for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukg3xv9r4Ko&feature=emb_title

I posted this on the 2019 all ireland final thread last year. Nothing has changed. It will probably be valid next year as well.

You can't run a sports competition when one team wins way in advance and the administrators don't care.

"The sight of a once vicious rivalry surviving on life support is the GAA's primetime product on the third weekend of June in 2019.
So finishes the decade with the Leinster football championship in ruin as any sense of competitiveness is lost. An era that begun with Meath thumping Dublin to the tune of 5-9 to 0-13 in this very fixture concludes with no provincial rivalry to speak about."

"Dublin are a long, long way in front of anyone else," said Colm O'Rourke.
"And maybe the gap is getting bigger all the time. There's no semblance of Dublin being sated by their success so far. It looks as if they want to win, win, win.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/gaelic-football-news/dublin-already-odds-six-row-18920594

I don't think Dublin all Ireland wins are valid any more, in fact. Because they get advantages nobody else does.
Why not take the tournament out of the hands of the GAA and put some decent sports administrators in control ?

Il sign off for the weekend gents, best of luck to sound reasonable ungrudging Mayo Folk on here. If its not us, I'm glad its you.

Up the Dubs.

Quote from: TheGreatest on December 18, 2020, 01:42:22 PM
Il sign off for the weekend gents, best of luck to sound reasonable ungrudging Mayo Folk on here. If its not us, I'm glad its you.

Up the Dubs.

Good man yourself!

Really hoping for this to be a tight affair, a sin bin or two may help a team (Mayo mainly) so discipline in the tackle is paramount. Underfoot conditions will play a part.

Mayo need two goals to win this, can't score them too early mind you, before half time and straight after the final water break.

May the best team on the day win!

If I were a Dub, I'd be hummin' the Rare oul' Times right now.

But I'm from Mayo, God help us and while my thoughts won't be Sean Dempsey's, I will be sharing his sentiments.

Gaelic football for me was an all-inclusive game where postemen and pilots could play side by side and maybe with a few farm labourers and fishermen on their team as well.
Today you'd need to be either a full time student or employed in a few select professions almost without exception, to find the time to train and play for an average club team.

Yet, we cod ourselves that it's still an amateur sport as pure and unsullied as envisaged by the bewhiskered gentlemen in Hayes' Hotel back in , well, the rare oul' times.

I remember a Connacht final, maybe 25 years ago, when Mayo played Galway in Tuam, (I think.)
Galway won but the most outstanding player on show was Vincent Nally, Mayo's chb.
At the end, several Galway lads came up to him to shake his hand or pat him on the shoulder but, as soon as he got the chance, he turned around and bolted for the dressing rooms.
With my agricultural train of thought, I imagined he was just bursting for a pee and thought no more of it but, as he later explained, his only thought was to get back home to harvest his wheat before the rain started to fall.
He spent more time watching the clouds darken overhead than he did on watching the state of play going in around him!
I don't think the likes of Vincent Nally would get on a sub's bench in Leitrim, never mind Mayo in the present times and Gaelic football is the poorer for the passing of innocence.
Play for the love of the game?...Me arse!

It's biff, bite, boot and bollack all the way to win by all means, legal and  illegal, nowadays. The proverbial last straw for me was the advent of gps harnesses.
This is an amateur sport for God's sake!
Money talks in GAA land today and anyone who says otherwise needs to be psychoanalysed  - most intercounty teams have enough of these to do the needful.
I did a google for the GAA's development to the various counties  but one of the links I got back was equally interesting. This one purported to give the scale of sponsorship money each county brought in last year.
Naturally, Dublin led the way by a country mile but guess who came second and third?
Mayo came second, followed by Kerry. (It's irrelevant here to mention that Mayo, and most likely Kerry, have to look to emigrants around the world to get the vast majority of what they take in.)
Now, is it pure coincidence that the three most high profile counties in the land are the most successful at attracting sponsorship money?
Nah, players may be amateurs and I assume most are, but Professionalism overhangs every other aspect of the once innocent game, once played for the love of the game and the pride of the parish. (etc, etc,)
I will always follow Mayo as it's bred in my DNA but my interest in the once beautiful game stops at that.
If I should meet Sean Dempsey in the equivalent of Croke Park in the sky, I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint.

Finally, Hup Mayo! ;D

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
If I were a Dub, I'd be hummin' the Rare oul' Times right now.

But I'm from Mayo, God help us and while my thoughts won't be Sean Dempsey's, I will be sharing his sentiments.

Gaelic football for me was an all-inclusive game where postemen and pilots could play side by side and maybe with a few farm labourers and fishermen on their team as well.
Today you'd need to be either a full time student or employed in a few select professions almost without exception, to find the time to train and play for an average club team.

Yet, we cod ourselves that it's still an amateur sport as pure and unsullied as envisaged by the bewhiskered gentlemen in Hayes' Hotel back in , well, the rare oul' times.

I remember a Connacht final, maybe 25 years ago, when Mayo played Galway in Tuam, (I think.)
Galway won but the most outstanding player on show was Vincent Nally, Mayo's chb.
At the end, several Galway lads came up to him to shake his hand or pat him on the shoulder but, as soon as he got the chance, he turned around and bolted for the dressing rooms.
With my agricultural train of thought, I imagined he was just bursting for a pee and thought no more of it but, as he later explained, his only thought was to get back home to harvest his wheat before the rain started to fall.
He spent more time watching the clouds darken overhead than he did on watching the state of play going in around him!
I don't think the likes of Vincent Nally would get on a sub's bench in Leitrim, never mind Mayo in the present times and Gaelic football is the poorer for the passing of innocence.
Play for the love of the game?...Me arse!

It's biff, bite, boot and bollack all the way to win by all means, legal and  illegal, nowadays. The proverbial last straw for me was the advent of gps harnesses.
This is an amateur sport for God's sake!
Money talks in GAA land today and anyone who says otherwise needs to be psychoanalysed  - most intercounty teams have enough of these to do the needful.
I did a google for the GAA's development to the various counties  but one of the links I got back was equally interesting. This one purported to give the scale of sponsorship money each county brought in last year.
Naturally, Dublin led the way by a country mile but guess who came second and third?
Mayo came second, followed by Kerry. (It's irrelevant here to mention that Mayo, and most likely Kerry, have to look to emigrants around the world to get the vast majority of what they take in.)
Now, is it pure coincidence that the three most high profile counties in the land are the most successful at attracting sponsorship money?
Nah, players may be amateurs and I assume most are, but Professionalism overhangs every other aspect of the once innocent game, once played for the love of the game and the pride of the parish. (etc, etc,)
I will always follow Mayo as it's bred in my DNA but my interest in the once beautiful game stops at that.
If I should meet Sean Dempsey in the equivalent of Croke Park in the sky, I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint.

Finally, Hup Mayo! ;D

Lar,

You are only off by 25 years LOL

Both unchanged teams named.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 18, 2020, 05:34:00 PM
Both unchanged teams named.

Any news on the subs?

Quote from: joemamas on December 18, 2020, 05:05:52 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
If I were a Dub, I'd be hummin' the Rare oul' Times right now.

But I'm from Mayo, God help us and while my thoughts won't be Sean Dempsey's, I will be sharing his sentiments.

Gaelic football for me was an all-inclusive game where postemen and pilots could play side by side and maybe with a few farm labourers and fishermen on their team as well.
Today you'd need to be either a full time student or employed in a few select professions almost without exception, to find the time to train and play for an average club team.

Yet, we cod ourselves that it's still an amateur sport as pure and unsullied as envisaged by the bewhiskered gentlemen in Hayes' Hotel back in , well, the rare oul' times.

I remember a Connacht final, maybe 25 years ago, when Mayo played Galway in Tuam, (I think.)
Galway won but the most outstanding player on show was Vincent Nally, Mayo's chb.
At the end, several Galway lads came up to him to shake his hand or pat him on the shoulder but, as soon as he got the chance, he turned around and bolted for the dressing rooms.
With my agricultural train of thought, I imagined he was just bursting for a pee and thought no more of it but, as he later explained, his only thought was to get back home to harvest his wheat before the rain started to fall.
He spent more time watching the clouds darken overhead than he did on watching the state of play going in around him!
I don't think the likes of Vincent Nally would get on a sub's bench in Leitrim, never mind Mayo in the present times and Gaelic football is the poorer for the passing of innocence.
Play for the love of the game?...Me arse!

It's biff, bite, boot and bollack all the way to win by all means, legal and  illegal, nowadays. The proverbial last straw for me was the advent of gps harnesses.
This is an amateur sport for God's sake!
Money talks in GAA land today and anyone who says otherwise needs to be psychoanalysed  - most intercounty teams have enough of these to do the needful.
I did a google for the GAA's development to the various counties  but one of the links I got back was equally interesting. This one purported to give the scale of sponsorship money each county brought in last year.
Naturally, Dublin led the way by a country mile but guess who came second and third?
Mayo came second, followed by Kerry. (It's irrelevant here to mention that Mayo, and most likely Kerry, have to look to emigrants around the world to get the vast majority of what they take in.)
Now, is it pure coincidence that the three most high profile counties in the land are the most successful at attracting sponsorship money?
Nah, players may be amateurs and I assume most are, but Professionalism overhangs every other aspect of the once innocent game, once played for the love of the game and the pride of the parish. (etc, etc,)
I will always follow Mayo as it's bred in my DNA but my interest in the once beautiful game stops at that.
If I should meet Sean Dempsey in the equivalent of Croke Park in the sky, I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint.

Finally, Hup Mayo! ;D

Lar,

You are only off by 25 years LOL

Bejaysus, you're right.
I think I might have mixed him up with Willie but even he was more than 25 years ago.
Ah, well, you lose some, you win some.  :-X

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
If I were a Dub, I'd be hummin' the Rare oul' Times right now.

But I'm from Mayo, God help us and while my thoughts won't be Sean Dempsey's, I will be sharing his sentiments.

Gaelic football for me was an all-inclusive game where postemen and pilots could play side by side and maybe with a few farm labourers and fishermen on their team as well.
Today you'd need to be either a full time student or employed in a few select professions almost without exception, to find the time to train and play for an average club team.

Yet, we cod ourselves that it's still an amateur sport as pure and unsullied as envisaged by the bewhiskered gentlemen in Hayes' Hotel back in , well, the rare oul' times.

I remember a Connacht final, maybe 25 years ago, when Mayo played Galway in Tuam, (I think.)
Galway won but the most outstanding player on show was Vincent Nally, Mayo's chb.
At the end, several Galway lads came up to him to shake his hand or pat him on the shoulder but, as soon as he got the chance, he turned around and bolted for the dressing rooms.
With my agricultural train of thought, I imagined he was just bursting for a pee and thought no more of it but, as he later explained, his only thought was to get back home to harvest his wheat before the rain started to fall.
He spent more time watching the clouds darken overhead than he did on watching the state of play going in around him!
I don't think the likes of Vincent Nally would get on a sub's bench in Leitrim, never mind Mayo in the present times and Gaelic football is the poorer for the passing of innocence.
Play for the love of the game?...Me arse!

It's biff, bite, boot and bollack all the way to win by all means, legal and  illegal, nowadays. The proverbial last straw for me was the advent of gps harnesses.
This is an amateur sport for God's sake!
Money talks in GAA land today and anyone who says otherwise needs to be psychoanalysed  - most intercounty teams have enough of these to do the needful.
I did a google for the GAA's development to the various counties  but one of the links I got back was equally interesting. This one purported to give the scale of sponsorship money each county brought in last year.
Naturally, Dublin led the way by a country mile but guess who came second and third?
Mayo came second, followed by Kerry. (It's irrelevant here to mention that Mayo, and most likely Kerry, have to look to emigrants around the world to get the vast majority of what they take in.)
Now, is it pure coincidence that the three most high profile counties in the land are the most successful at attracting sponsorship money?
Nah, players may be amateurs and I assume most are, but Professionalism overhangs every other aspect of the once innocent game, once played for the love of the game and the pride of the parish. (etc, etc,)
I will always follow Mayo as it's bred in my DNA but my interest in the once beautiful game stops at that.
If I should meet Sean Dempsey in the equivalent of Croke Park in the sky, I'll shake his hand and buy him a pint.

Finally, Hup Mayo! ;D

Remember the time it was written in the Connaught Final program that Jimmy Burke was injured due to throwing his back out pulling a calf

Joanne Hayes has just been offered an apology and compensation for events that happened 35 years ago which were wrong.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/kerry-babies-suffering-and-stress-of-ordeal-finally-behind-us-joanne-hayes-1.4440521

Mayo will probably be granted at least 1 Sam and an apology by a future Taoiseach for events happening now which are nonsense

Seafoid remove that shite. That is ridiculous.

WTF is that lad on?

I haven't a clue who's going to win tomorrow but having watched the Dubs for sixty years I never tire of seeing them win. Dublin's success over the past ten years goes only some way in compensating for the decades of dismal underachievement.

Of course Mayo are well capable of taking Sam tomorrow. If they do I'll be gutted but I won't for a minute begrudge Mayo their victory. They would have had a long and painful wait.

COYBIB

Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2020, 07:43:58 PM
Joanne Hayes has just been offered an apology and compensation for events that happened 35 years ago which were wrong.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/kerry-babies-suffering-and-stress-of-ordeal-finally-behind-us-joanne-hayes-1.4440521

Mayo will probably be granted at least 1 Sam and an apology by a future Taoiseach for events happening now which are nonsense

You are an a disgusting individual. 

Quote from: reillycavan on December 18, 2020, 09:12:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2020, 07:43:58 PM
Joanne Hayes has just been offered an apology and compensation for events that happened 35 years ago which were wrong.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/kerry-babies-suffering-and-stress-of-ordeal-finally-behind-us-joanne-hayes-1.4440521

Mayo will probably be granted at least 1 Sam and an apology by a future Taoiseach for events happening now which are nonsense

You are an a disgusting individual.

You know what his nickname means, don't you?

Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2020, 05:58:13 PM


Remember the time it was written in the Connaught Final program that Jimmy Burke was injured due to throwing his back out pulling a calf

Bedad, I remember that well. Jimmy was prone to make the news for all the wrong reasons. Another time he jumped for a ball and fell backwards. Unfortunately, he managed to swallow his tongue and the game had to be stopped while the medics worked on him.
Do you remember the goal he scored against the Rossies in a Connacht final? (I can't recall the year.)
There was an almighty shemozzle in the goal mouth, as Micheal O'Hehir used to say , bodies sprawled on the ground and Jimmy literally walked the ball over the line.He was on his hand and knees at the time, pushing the ball in front of him. It was with his forearms I think so the ref judged that it was not a hand ball and the goal was allowed.

Results in the championship matches played between Mayo and Dublin in the last few decades, with a manager other than Jim Gavin? ;)

Mayo subs;

Hennelly
O'Hora
Plunkett
Brickenden
Higgins
Parsons
Flynn
Boland
J Durcan
Carr
D Coen

Dublin subs:

Comerford
C Basquel
A Byrne
Costello
Howard
Lahiff
Lowndes
Macauley
Mannion
Philly
Kev Mac

Andrews, Cian and O'Carroll among those not making the cut. Bit of a bolt that MDMA has worked his way onto the bench after missing out in semi and Leinster final.

As far as I know the 26 can't be changed (unless a keeper gets injured ) but anyone of the 26 could start.

Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 11:13:53 PM
Dublin subs:

Comerford
C Basquel
A Byrne
Costello
Howard
Lahiff
Lowndes
Macauley
Mannion
Philly
Kev Mac

Andrews, Cian and O'Carroll among those not making the cut. Bit of a bolt that MDMA has worked his way onto the bench after missing out in semi and Leinster final.

As far as I know the 26 can't be changed (unless a keeper gets injured ) but anyone of the 26 could start.

I believe that is gone for this year, iirc Comer wasn't named in the Galway 26 against Mayo but still featured

Quote from: Hound on December 18, 2020, 11:11:15 PM
Mayo subs;

Hennelly
O'Hora
Plunkett
Brickenden
Higgins
Parsons
Flynn
Boland
J Durcan
Carr
D Coen

Disappointing for Boyler not to make it. Surprised to see James Durcan included

Could be the end of the road for Boyle now you'd imagine. He'll be 35 next summer.
Where has Eoin O Donoghue disappeared to?
The fullback line is one area where Mayo don't have huge options.
Keegan and Mullin both half backs really

Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 18, 2020, 10:48:15 PM

Quote from: whitey on December 18, 2020, 05:58:13 PM


Remember the time it was written in the Connaught Final program that Jimmy Burke was injured due to throwing his back out pulling a calf

Bedad, I remember that well. Jimmy was prone to make the news for all the wrong reasons. Another time he jumped for a ball and fell backwards. Unfortunately, he managed to swallow his tongue and the game had to be stopped while the medics worked on him.
Do you remember the goal he scored against the Rossies in a Connacht final? (I can't recall the year.)
There was an almighty shemozzle in the goal mouth, as Micheal O'Hehir used to say , bodies sprawled on the ground and Jimmy literally walked the ball over the line.He was on his hand and knees at the time, pushing the ball in front of him. It was with his forearms I think so the ref judged that it was not a hand ball and the goal was allowed.

1989 replay that went to extra time......  epic game

Quote from: galwayman on December 18, 2020, 11:50:07 PM
Could be the end of the road for Boyle now you'd imagine. He'll be 35 next summer.
Where has Eoin O Donoghue disappeared to?
The fullback line is one area where Mayo don't have huge options.
Keegan and Mullin both half backs really

Dunno tbh, I'd have thought he'd be starting by now, always looks quality imo

In a normal year there would be a lot of players on extended panels who would have either already played their last championship match or who would probably bow out tomorrow

McAuley
O'Sullivan
McManamon
Andrews
O'Carroll (in truth his return has been a total damp squib)
McMahon possibly

Higgins
Parsons
Boyle
Seamus O'Shea
Vaughan
Jason Doherty would be in there as well but for injury

Cluxton and Clarke could be in there too

These panels will change drastically over the next couple of years

But if there's another All-Ireland final next July, Herbie could ride again for some them at least

In Argentine parlance this is almost like the Apertura All-Ireland with next July being the Clausura

December 19th to the start of the next championship in April is not a long time, not much more than three months

Anybody predicting Mayo to win needs to lay off the drugs.

i was going to say on here before  but did not cause most probably see it as a crazy idea could you have two all irelands per  year if you go straight knockout and a summer all ireland and winter all ireland that would eliminate those saying its not fair we got one game well they get two championship games per year at least.As you said some  football in latin america does a split championship and boxers usually  defend title two times  per year at least.Tho having two all irelands a year would maybe  make it less of an occasion.

In a way we do have two all  irelands per year cause the league is like an all ireland just a different format.

Best of luck to the Mayo team later on today.

Not expecting the win, but hoping for it. If one looks long and hard at both camps, only one outcome is viable. Matches are not won on paper, nor on previous games. Tradition and history don't take the field, so it'd be nice to have the gods smiling down on us for a change this evening later on. But it needs to be earned. Players will need to play out of their skin and make it happen. Not much more to be said by me I'm afraid. It's over to the panel now. Please God Mayo will do it.

Up Mayo.

Gusty winds, posiibly some heavy rain, not going to say it'll favour either team but hopefully it'll disrupt dublin in some shape or fashion. C'mon Mayo

I was impressed with Mayo in the semis, especially their running game and joined up play going forward. There were slack moments in defence which could be costly against a team as deadly as the Dubs.

I think Mayo have more about themselves this year. Durcan flying, O Loughlin on the other flank, Conroy a new handful up front, COC flying and AOS turning into an improved team player. (I though he was trying to do too much himself in previous years).

Throw in mixed weather, the lack of supporters which may have an effect (hard to quantify because Mayo also bring massive support) and all in all I see a thriller which could go either way.

I sincerely hope if Mayo lose it is by 6 and not by a point. That would just be too cruel on what has been a superb bunch of stalwarts on the Mayo panel, some as mooted above who may retire after this.

Come on Mayo.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Bernard Brogan: 'Finances didn't win five All-Irelands in a row'
Capital Gains: The former Dublin star on why the money debate needs to find some middle ground
about 3 hours ago Updated: 27 minutes ago

Malachy Clerkin



Oh no. Not another article about money and the Dubs. Turn the page, Mammy. Make the bad man stop. It's All-Ireland final day. It's nearly Christmas week. It's been the worst year of our lives. Seriously, can we not?

Okay, wait. Just wait. This one is different. For a start, we come in peace. The worst thing about the Dublin funding debate is always the refusal of either side to give an inch. State that the Dublin players are supremely talented and you're accused of ignoring the money. Mention that the five-in-a-row might have been influenced by Dublin's financial might and you're insulting the players. If there ever was a middle ground, it has long been grown over.

Well, this is a dispatch from that middle ground. Or at least an attempt to locate it. Our guide for the journey is someone uniquely placed to give a view. Bernard Brogan comes to the debate wearing two hats. One is that of a player who lived inside the bubble for the best part of 15 years and experienced all the changes along the way. The other is that of someone who was deeply involved at the planning stage when Dublin set about becoming a financial powerhouse.

Actually, he has a third hat. He is a Dubs fan. Outside the tent for a Dublin All-Ireland final for the first time since he was 11 years old. A fortnight ago, after the Cavan game, that new status allowed him break the habit of a lifetime and he got involved in a bit of Twitter to-and-fro on the subject of the day.

"Clinical display from Dublin," he wrote, "my argument is that this Dublin financial debate is masking the conversation about how good these Dublin players are, Once in a generation players in full flow!"

     
There followed the sort of calm and civil back and forth that has made Twitter such a force for good in the world. One lad told him to go home to bed. Another said they said the same things about Lance Armstrong. Another told him if he wanted his opinion, he'd ask what the specials were down at SuperValu. Which was pretty funny, in fairness.

"Ah look," he says "The middle ground is where I'd like to be on this. That's what I would love to be able to find with people. I got involved in a debate on Twitter because I felt annoyed that the Dublin players were being dismissed and not getting the credit for the work they've put in over the years.

"I know that I come from a position of bias. Obviously I do – I have been in a bubble with those players for a long time. I've seen their development all the way along. So I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping. I'm not saying I know everything – I definitely don't. But what I can bring to it is the view from what it means to be a player in the middle of it. Maybe that can help find that middle ground."

So let's get into it. Can we start by admitting, on some level, that finance is a factor? That feels like an important thing for anyone involved in Dublin GAA to come out and say. If money is the great unmentionable in the GAA, that is exponentially the case when it comes to the Dubs. Can we at least say it matters?

"Of course it does, yeah," says Brogan. "Dublin have brought in a lot of finance over the past decade, plenty of it. It was got for a good reason and it worked. I wouldn't go knocking something that worked. There's loads of counter-arguments, absolutely, I accept that. And I know it's easy for me to say it because I'm a Dub. But this is something that worked. My feeling would be that we should take the learnings from it and apply that to other areas of the GAA.


"Loads of counties are doing it well. Dublin aren't the only success story when it comes to raising finance. Kerry have been able to go to the States and raise half a million quid here and there when they've needed to build their centre of excellence. They have as much finance at the high-performance level as Dublin would have."

At this point, it's probably worth trying to nail down what we are talking about. We could spend the day talking about the ins and outs of the GAA's funding of Dublin being multiples of what other counties get. But in fairness, not even the most fervent critic of the system can claim that funding made Bernard Brogan. It's not really in the scope of his experience.

Brian Fenton at the announcement of a partnership between Dublin GAA and Mitsubishi Motors Ireland. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
Brian Fenton at the announcement of a partnership between Dublin GAA and Mitsubishi Motors Ireland. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
No, the area where he can speak with authority is what it's like to be in the Dublin senior football set-up and the role finance plays in it. In the bubble, he says, the conversation just doesn't exist. He is visibly surprised to find out that the debate isn't any more heated this year than in other years, which just goes to show how little headspace players have for it.

"I know there are Dublin fans who, as soon as anyone mentions money, they take that as saying, 'Well, anyone could win All-Irelands for Dublin.' And it annoys me a bit now that I'm removed from it. Because I just feel that it is questioning the team, even if it isn't meant that way. I have seen the efforts of everyone there and I am able to say how small a factor the financial side of it is.

.....unless you dont have it. End of article.

Mayo can't compete against Dublin  in the Duracell Bunny stakes . Nobody can

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-look-to-have-one-trick-too-many-for-rejuvenated-mayo-1.4441038

On each occasion that Mayo recorded big wins in 2019, against Galway in the qualifiers and Donegal in the quarter-finals, they had to face Kerry and Dublin within a week and were simply unable to find the gas to keep going.

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 01:14:21 AM
In a normal year there would be a lot of players on extended panels who would have either already played their last championship match or who would probably bow out tomorrow

McAuley
O'Sullivan
McManamon
Andrews
O'Carroll (in truth his return has been a total damp squib)
McMahon possibly

Higgins
Parsons
Boyle
Seamus O'Shea
Vaughan
Jason Doherty would be in there as well but for injury

Cluxton and Clarke could be in there too

These panels will change drastically over the next couple of years

But if there's another All-Ireland final next July, Herbie could ride again for some them at least

In Argentine parlance this is almost like the Apertura All-Ireland with next July being the Clausura

December 19th to the start of the next championship in April is not a long time, not much more than three months

A bit surprising the way O Sullivan has went from a key part of the defence as a sweeper under Gavin, to not making the 26.

Had he any injury or just the competition for places? McAuley named in the 26, first time in this years championship I think

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-all-over-the-park-1.4439920

Jim McGuinness: Mayo need to create pressure and mayhem all over the park
James Horan's side need to challenge Dublin kick-outs and make sure their own is solid
about 3 hours ago

Jim McGuinness





What do Mayo need to do? What can James Horan try? I suppose it's a question that will be going through the minds of thousands of nervous Mayo supporters around the world this morning. That and: can Christmas come early for once?
Well, maybe.
A moment will have come where James sat down with a pen and paper and thought about what needs to happen to cause a malfunction in this Dublin machine. It's a word that is used a lot about Dublin. But, of course, the truth is, they are only human.
So for me the most important thing about Mayo's game plan is pressure. How many different ways can they create pressure situations on Dublin?
The first area is on Dublin's kick-out. The number of column inches and broadcast airtime devoted to Stephen Cluxton is vast. But it is because his influence has not waned and doesn't change. So it leaves Mayo with a clear choice. To take them on or not. I feel it is vital that Mayo take them on. That doesn't mean you necessarily win possession off their kick-out. The chances of doing that are not great. But you would create that sense of pressure. Can you force the players who receive the ball to make decisions they wouldn't take with less pressure? Can you force Stephen Cluxton to take his second or third option – and then make winning that ball combative and apply pressure? It has to be full-on commitment. But the athletic profile of their younger players gives me reason to believe they can challenge Dublin in this area.
The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them.
•   Jim McGuinness: Cavan need illogical courage and variety to down the Dubs
•   Jim McGuinness: Pray the advanced mark doesn't ruin another Mayo-Dublin epic
•   Jim McGuinness: There is a way to save championship and make it competitive
CLICK HERE: Irish Times guide to sport on TV this week
So Mayo must be very organised and disciplined and work in twos and threes where possible. You decide when you go and then you trap aggressively and squeeze them towards the sideline. The Mayo forwards have a big part to play as well: their inside forward line can stop the Dublin ball carriers from freely going back out the pitch when they don't fancy the options in front of them. Ciarán Kilkenny does this brilliantly, backpedaling to buy space and change the angle of attack. In short, they must be harassed and hurried all evening.
When Dublin attack now, they are simultaneously preparing to defend in the event of losing the ball. So if you do win the ball on your defensive 21 you are facing 13 Dublin players suddenly in defensive mode just to get downfield. So the first two or three passes out of pressure by Mayo become critical. The squeeze goes towards the ball so if they can work the ball smartly back to the middle of the field and out the weak side, the space will open up. The hand-passing needs to be sharp and slick to find a way through that pressure. That is something that Mayo have to be conscious of. But if they can do this, they could reap rewards.
Then you come to the midfield dilemma. James McCarthy and Brian Fenton are a colossal force. Conor Loftus is going to be at a physical disadvantage and I think they are going to have to supplement their midfield on David Clarke's kick-out. So Conor Loftus goes left, Matthew Ruane centre and Aidan O'Shea goes right and you go to those two if you can't get the short kick away. And from a running point of view, Conor has good legs and will enjoy that aspect. So he should be used as a decoy.
Tommy Conroy should play close to Aidan O'Shea to make the most of his finishing skills. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Mayo's kick-out is a major issue. It could unravel for them and I see Dublin zeroing in on that. If the kick-out does collapse then Mayo are in trouble. It is vital they get the ball in their hands on their kick-outs.
And having studied Mayo they usually start well but the longer it goes on, it tends to dissipate. For me, it is just about process. And one of Dublin's best strengths is their ability to work you out. If you get joy from one strategy, they will figure it out and close it down. So you need another plan.
In the event of a collapse, I think a protectionist kick-out could work best for Mayo rather than precision, short- or mid-range. You kick the ball over the top of your own six defenders and you drop your midfielder into that pack so that you have seven players where the ball is going to break and your half forwards coming the other way and it becomes a chase for the breaking ball. And even if you don't win them all, you still have bodies behind the ball to slow down Dublin's transition. It gives Mayo an out if they are getting murdered on short to medium kick-outs. It is a good go-to in a bad situation– and that bad situation will probably materialise at some stage.
And that complements the overall pressure game you are trying to apply on Dublin. Even if you don't win the ball, you have your biggest players competing for the ball – and you will win some of those. And Dublin will match that. They will commit men to that break. So suddenly, you are dictating Dublin's structure.
And therefore, they can't be set up in those few seconds. And if and when Mayo get the ball, the opportunity to get their transition running game going will present itself. That's when the fun could start.
All of this is predicated on Mayo's determination to drag Dublin into the trenches: to psychologically ruffle them and create as many dynamics and as much mayhem as possible. They have a lot of pace in the backline, highly effective aerobic runners in Loftus at 9, O'Connor at 12 and Kevin McLoughlin at 10 in that midfield triangle. The option of the long ball into Aidan O'Shea is there and I would play Tommy Conroy close to him because he is so sharp and heads-up and is a true finisher.
Dublin have been the hardest hitting and, in my opinion, the most defensive team in the championship. They have a man to man/totally zonal system with a serious emphasis on covering space. Their awareness of covering space is excellent. Watch how often their full forwards drop back into their own half.
Dublin's intensity and work rate and turnovers is superior to those of their challengers. It should be the other way. It must be if you are to live with them. And thus we are back to pressure. I believe if Mayo can tick all these pressure boxes, then they do have a realistic of becoming All-Ireland champions.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 19, 2020, 10:08:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

He comes across as fairly bitter, must have had his eye wiped by a Mayo man in his younger days  ;D ;D

Quote from: MayoBuck on December 19, 2020, 10:08:00 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40193160.html

Is that how people inside the Dublin camp feel about Mayo?

In my experience that,s how most Dublin posters feel about the rest of the teams.
Dublin work harder , Kerry should concentrate, Meath should get organised , everyone is just jealous agus mar sin de.
The GAA have created a dystopia.

Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 09:43:39 AMMcAuley named in the 26, first time in this years championship I think

That will put the fear of god into Aidan O'Shea

Cmon Mayo

I don't see this game being as one sided as some predict. Dublin will not give up their quest for 6 easily and won't want the 5 in a row tarnished by a heavy defeat. Expect them to scrap for everything even when the game is beyond them. The problem for the Dubs is that they are way under cooked coming in to this game and their main source of possession, turnovers, will not yield much against a team that are even better at turnovers. Nor will their patient, probing game yield much against a team that will not tire as easily as the likes of Westmeath or Cavan.

I expect we will prevail by 5 or 6 points - such a pity I and thousands can't be there and I wonder will it feel like an AI.

Good luck Mayo. Fingers and toes crossed for you

What's the mood like in Mayo?

Is it much more downbeat than other years where they were in an All Ireland final.

The hurling last week had a very damp feel about it.

Quote from: Angelo on December 19, 2020, 02:38:17 PM
What's the mood like in Mayo?

Is it much more downbeat than other years where they were in an All Ireland final.

The hurling last week had a very damp feel about it.

Raring to go 😁

I remember the excitement when Mayo reached the all Ireland final in 2012.
What a strange ride it has been since.

David Hickey comes across as a right arrogant p***k. I remember well the day he rugby tackled a protester on the pitch during the All Ireland final. Think it was 1975 or 1976.

Colm O'Rourke just said on The Saturday Game that Peter Canavan picked the ball off the ground in 1995.

Was it not Sean Mc Laughlin?

How does he get a gig like this?

Surely Brian Howard will start. Better footballer than Small or McDaid.

Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
Colm O'Rourke just said on The Saturday Game that Peter Canavan picked the ball off the ground in 1995.

Was it not Sean Mc Laughlin?

How does he get a gig like this?

McLaughlin got the score but think Canavan was penalised (incorrectly) for playing the ball on the ground.

O'Rourke lets his bias cloud him again and again when it comes to Tyrone. He's an embarrassment.

Unpopular opinion coming up.

I think Mayo will do it.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on December 19, 2020, 04:21:17 PM
Surely Brian Howard will start. Better footballer than Small or McDaid.

Wouldn't expect so. Imagine Dublin will go with what they have and both Mannion and Howard on standby to change the game.

It could be ugly or Mayo could do it. You just never know with Mayo. I just don't think this Mayo team will have the physicality of previous teams to ask that question, they are light in the middle compared to previous teams of theirs.

The reason Mayo have caused Dublin so much problems in that past is that they've have played their own game, done it at a high tempo, showed Dublin no respect and got wired in. That has put Dublin off their rhythm, Dublin like to be patient, keep ball and create the high percentage chance before they execute. Mayo will play the same football but I don't think they have the same quality of player they had 3/4/5 years ago. The likes of Higgins, Boyle, Vaughan, SOS, Andy Moran have all been phased out, a few other guys are getting on and they are also missing the likes of Doherty and Harrison with injuries.

Dublin by 8.

Scores anyone?

Dublin 2-21
Mayo 1-16

Hard to see us winning unfortunately but we live in hope.

Maigh Eo abú

Quote from: Angelo on December 19, 2020, 04:23:52 PM

Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 04:17:20 PM
Colm O'Rourke just said on The Saturday Game that Peter Canavan picked the ball off the ground in 1995.

Was it not Sean Mc Laughlin?

How does he get a gig like this?

McLaughlin got the score but think Canavan was penalised (incorrectly) for playing the ball on the ground.

O'Rourke lets his bias cloud him again and again when it comes to Tyrone. He's an embarrassment.

Thanks. I was wrong.

Any changes to the starting teams announced?

Mayo 3-14
Dublin 1-17

Ger Canning!!! Arghh!!!

It's Irish language commentary for me... again!

Quote from: Angelo on December 19, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Any changes to the starting teams announced?

None. Expected from Mayo. A little surprisingly Howard and Mannion are both not starting..

Cahair O'Kane is saying on Twitter that the Mayo warm up is not going well

"A few boys getting ratty"

Game over

Well now!!

Some start for Dublin. Fastest ever goal in AI final.

Quickest ever AI final goal?

2 minutes in and already 2017 revisited

2 points in response

This is gonna be good.

Level!

Great recovery by Mayo. Level within 2 minutes

Great response.

Finally we might have a proper, good game of football. Dublin will probably win but at least Mayo have shown belief.

Turnovers all over the place

Mayo are letting Dublin get away again

That bet  Angelo put up was bate Twice already  >:(

Ryan O'Donoghue could be getting the curly finger fairly soon

Cillian O'Connor with two points from play so far

That 4/1 bet was 4/1 for a reason

Fentonesque run by Loftus

Needs to be going for goal there

MUCH better by O'Donoghue

Dublin look low energy

Water break 18 minutes played. Dublin 1-3 Mayo 0-6.  As usual a competitive final between these two sides.

Cillian O'Connor is on it

Byrne in trouble

Mayo doing very well on midfield breaks

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
Ryan O'Donoghue could be getting the curly finger fairly soon

Cillian O'Connor with two points from play so far

That 4/1 bet was 4/1 for a reason

I hope they all lost money on it

This really is almost exact repeat of the 2017 final so far

Dublin 2nd goal totally against the run of play. Back in front 2-3 to 0-8 23 minutes played.

Another goal with the hand for Dublin

There is nothing so attractive to watch as a goal with the hand from close range

Like a volleyball smash

Is Angelo on the board tonight?

Very impressive from Mayo, soft hand ball goals killing them. Fenton no where to be seen. Murchan, Bugler and 13 are not woth their places on team. Dublin are their for the taking.

Ryan O Donahue get him off, Darren Coen on

How long does a player get to take the shot after claiming a mark?

Oisin Mullin is having some game

Aidan O'Shea is going to kn**ker himself, he's all around the pitch

Classic Dublin Mayo 2010s pattern, Mayo much the better team in the first half but expending huge energy and not making it count on the scoreboard

Fantastic point by O'Donoghue

Tommy Goals a bit disappointing so far

Mayo playing really well after a disastrous start. The subs will be the difference a great game.

Paddy Small how can he make the team ahead of Mannion or Costello

Aidan O'Shea should just accept he's never going to score in an All-Ireland

Defo fouled though

McDaid black card

Potentially big decision

Half time Dublin 2-6 Mayo 0-10. A harsh scoreline on Mayo but they'll have a man advantage for the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half. 

Mayo the better team by a fair bit but yet they are 2 points behind.

Fair play to Mayo playing well, but not protecting the centre 14  yard line, in the way a Mick Lyons or Darren Fay would have, that's a must against Dublin. Soft goals killing them.

It's all well and good until you see the bench that Dublin have to bring on. Mannion, Howard, McManamon, Costello... they will win comfortably in the end.

Mayo need goals
Tús maith

Mayo the better team but got sloppy towards the end of the half. Dublin getting wiped out in midfield. Expect to see Howard and Mannion on at half time for Bugler and Paddy Small.

Con causing Mayo problems and there's more goals there for Dublin. That black looked really harsh. Dubs were just starting to get on top at HT

Keith Higgins knocking f**k out of Philly mouthpiece, respect for you Keith.

Some tr**p Philly mc Mahon.Good to see somebody finally stand up to them.

The elf has moved!!!

Quote from: BennyCake on December 19, 2020, 05:46:51 PM
The elf has moved!!!

Quote from: Rudi on December 19, 2020, 05:44:51 PM
Keith Higgins knocking f**k out of Philly mouthpiece, respect for you Keith.

Philly has a coupon on him you'd never tire of batin' ;D

Rows out in the tunnel.

Tommy Goals is having a bad day

Lost Scully for O'Callaghan's goal, went ball watching

That's lack of experience

O'Donoghue is mixing the ridiculous with the sublime

Durcan is mostly neutralising Kilkenny but Kilkenny started coming into it towards the end of the half

McDaid, Byrne and Paddy Small are not having good games

Fenton not brilliant so far either

You just feel Dublin have at least two more gears to go through

First ten minutes of the second half are crucial - there's scarcely a better time for Mayo for a Dublin defender to have got one, as the first ten of the second half is when Dublin will want to make their move

Mayo need to smash in two goals in that period

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
McDaid black card

Potentially big decision

Need two of them and 2 goals

Still, like the senior hurling final, it's lacking bite due to no atmosphere/supporters, surely da f**k they couldn't have had family of players at the ground ffs!

Quote from: Rudi on December 19, 2020, 05:44:51 PM
Keith Higgins knocking f**k out of Philly mouthpiece, respect for you Keith.

This is exactly what Mayo have to do

What's a broken jaw between friends if you win the All-Ireland

It's the law of the jungle

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1340353078751576066

You can see fairly clearly that Aido strikes at the back of Philly's head.

Quote from: greatpoint on December 19, 2020, 05:53:29 PM
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1340353078751576066

You can see fairly clearly that Aido strikes at the back of Philly's head.

O Rourke says he got worse hits from his ma.

If it was tyrone we all know what he would say.

Let's dance!!

Dublin look like they're going to play keep ball for 10 minutes

Mayo got lucky there

Con looked like he was about to repeat 2019

How the f*** does Cooper not get a card there?

That was Jackie Tyrell stuff

Disgraceful

46 minutes played Dublin 2-8 Mayo 0-13

Frontal hit from Fitz to add to the Copper black card

The ref was right in front of that. How did he miss it

Frontal charge. Free in

2 big decisions going against Mayo there.

Mayo hard done by there. Not a fair shoulder.

Quote from: RedHand88 on December 19, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
How the f*** does Cooper not get a card there?

Is that not the tackle that the black card was literally introduced for?

Bar Con, that Dublin forward line is not functioning

Rock has barely been seen since his goal

I like Carr, has moxey

Does he have enough football under his belt though

Level again 50 mins played.

Copper is another liability, Paul Mannion on

Small would want to have a word with himself

Basquel for Cooper

Does that mean McCarthy back to defence

Small rolling around like a player in the champions league final then hopping up perfectly ok to give off to the referee

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 06:15:58 PM
Basquel for Cooper

Does that mean McCarthy back to defence

I would guess so.

2nd water break 55 mins and still all to play for. Dublin 2-9 Mayo 0-14.

Colm Copper is a likeable pundit game on indeed, this is entertaining

This is there for Mayo

But it's going to take an Armagh 2002 100 years of helicopters type effort

Farrell has trusted Basquel

If Dublin lose, that substitution will be pointed to

Logic still says Dublin will pull away

Bad first play for Mannion though

What is Gooch Cooper talking about the big shoulder on Lee Keegan- he forgot to mention that it was shoulder to chest - full on. Dangerous and deliberate.

Too many mistakes and turnovers, Mayo have 20 mins I reckon to put in a shift!

Con O' callaghan is some operator.

Power, pace and works so hard.

The surge has come

Quote from: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 05:52:42 PM

Quote from: Rudi on December 19, 2020, 05:44:51 PM
Keith Higgins knocking f**k out of Philly mouthpiece, respect for you Keith.

This is exactly what Mayo have to do

What's a broken jaw between friends if you win the All-Ireland

It's the law of the jungle

Aren't you the true gael

Howard or Bugler, not even close, Mayo sloppy now

The last three minutes have won it for Dublin

The gap is starting to getting bigger. At least for 60 odd minutes Mayo laid a glove on them.

Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 06:19:39 PM
What is Gooch Cooper talking about the big shoulder on Lee Keegan- he forgot to mention that it was shoulder to chest - full on. Dangerous and deliberate.

fair hit. keegan is done

Dublin 4 ahead. 64 mins played. Better bench making a difference.

Quote from: Armagh18 on December 19, 2020, 06:27:25 PM

Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 06:19:39 PM
What is Gooch Cooper talking about the big shoulder on Lee Keegan- he forgot to mention that it was shoulder to chest - full on. Dangerous and deliberate.

fair hit. keegan is done

That was nowhere close to being a fair hit

Dublin are so difficult to dispossess

Just when you think you've nicked it off them, they somehow retain possession

Quote from: tonto1888 on December 19, 2020, 06:28:33 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on December 19, 2020, 06:27:25 PM

Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 06:19:39 PM
What is Gooch Cooper talking about the big shoulder on Lee Keegan- he forgot to mention that it was shoulder to chest - full on. Dangerous and deliberate.

fair hit. keegan is done

That was nowhere close to being a fair hit

Not a hope was it a fair hit. But I do think the ref got in right on Cooper/O'Shea just beforehand. It was pathetically theatrical. Felt the foul and went for more