GAA Response to Coronavirus

[supersub]

Super sub . It's commentary like yours that really irritates, what makes you use such language as "a distinct possibility it wont go back to the way it was " throw in the drastic and all that jazz too.

If you asked me a month or two weeks ago , I'd be certainly weary of how long it would take to go back to normal because of predictions we were reading .

Now here in the 26 we are down to under 100 new cases daily , if that trajectory remains we could possibly be down to daily increase of single digit cases in two weeks time . If this continues further and we don't have any further spikes along the way into the summer I cannot for the life of me understand why there would be any restrictions bar foreign travel in and out .

Commentary that irritates? Or opinion that is realist? Sorry if you don't like my opinion, which was expressed on a forum, of debate, in response to a couple of posts that gave little thought to the past 2 months and have actually since been summed up very well in Sid's post.

The thing is, we are dealing in the unknown, that is why I said it's a distinct possibility. I didn't say it was certain, and taking into consideration the last few months I believe I'm well within my right to think and suggest so. I would love things to go back to normal tomorrow, absolutely, so the rhetoric of people not wanting it to return to the way it was certainly does not apply to me. I am just being realistic about the situation. No one answered any of my hypothetical situations about the various volunteers in the club and how they would be affected if it was all lifted tomorrow. Instead just a barrage of replies from people who didn't want to hear a harsh reality that could well play out.

It's all very well quoting the latest figures, but why is it so? Because of the guidance that has been followed. If it was all lifted tomorrow, or even u16s down as was suggested, you still have the rest of the volunteers outside these u16s who would need to be active again. That would also suggest other sports and gatherings could happen. Fair enough. But how can you be certain that it won't start to spread viciously again? Again, hypothetical - but the attitude to this was 'can't for the life of me' understand why it's not up and running etc. Surely you do understand though? You don't like it, but you still can understand the reasoning behind it? Maybe not. But I would be surprised.

[larryin89]

Missing my point which is there are far too many who say on one hand we are heading for a "new normal " but on the other hand say it's unknown but shoot down people who remain optimistic that we will back to normal this time next year .

Interesting that our very own baldy George clooney (Tony houlihan) became a tad irate himself tonight when asked why secondary school students were addressed about zoom classroom behaviour going forward , the reporter then said shur it's there last day and we are going back to school next September, he then proceeded to tell us zoom classes/ E learning could be something used in education moving forward .  Now see this shit this is what is getting to us who are finding hard to cope with changes to life , it's like there is something not been told .

I'd rather die than live in the new normal for the rest of my days and I sincerely mean that .

[larryin89]

Do you know what the new normal will be like? Try it first to see.

And another one who is promoting the "new normal " . How about fook the new normal .

[sid waddell]

No i am saying keep social distance going in every normal day life things where possible
Walking Shopping Work etc
But my point is life must start moving again for example sport
The common flu can be passed on do we stop everything? The Covid virus is not as deadly as predicted. No where near in fact

The GAA does not exist in isolation. The GAA is part of society. Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports. In a normal week you have many hundreds, probably thousands of matches up and down the country. If the GAA starts playing again, that means all sports start playing again. More soccer matches take place in an average week than GAA matches. Then there are rugby matches and other sports. There are all kinds of civic social gatherings - educational, organisational, creative.

Every single one is a potential virus-spreading event.

If sport takes place, that sets an example to everybody else - an example that social distancing is not to be taken seriously.

The common flu is a known quantity. We know what it does, we know how to treat it.

We are learning more about Covid-19 everyday, but it is still not a known quantity in the real sense, we still do not have reliable treatments for it. It is a disease our bodies do not recognise. That's why it kills people.

353,000 people have died worldwide from Covid-19 wwith 5.7 million cases, and these are only the recorded figures. The real death figures could well be several times more, the real case figures are likely many times more.

And that's with lockdowns and social distancing. God knows what it would be without it.

This is a deadly virus. There is no room for debate about that. It is a fact.

We do not know how this virus will behave in the future. We hope it goes away, but there's no real evidence to suggest it will. We hope we will have effective treatments, but we currently don't. We hope we will have a vaccine, but that will take a significant length of time to emerge, if it ever does. We have to presume the virus will stick around and that another wave is likely, and if there's another wave, it could well be during the winter. We have to behave in a way that will reduce the spread of it, because if we don't we likely will have a public health catastrophe.

This is about basic morality. We are inconveniencing ourselves in what we hope and expect will be a temporary manner (but for how long we do not know, though it will likely be dependent on adherence to restrictions) to try and protect millions of people. Our policy makers (in some countries some of them, shamefully, do not act in good faith even on a matter of this seriousness - but in most countries they do - in Ireland they have done) are trying to create a situation where some sort of tenuous normality can occur within a framework of reducing the virus. Amateur sport comes near the bottom of priorities in that, and rightly so.

I have had little enough time for John Horan as GAA President, but on this issue he has acted in an examplary manner. He has shown leadership and has demonstrated that the GAA does not exist in isolation from society, and cannot behave as if it does. It is part of society. It cannot operate a pissing section in a swimming pool. It cannot operate a smoking section in an aeroplane.

People arguing the contrary are saying, "ah, it'll probably be grand". Wing and a prayer stuff. There is no evidence to back their rhetoric. That's not how public policy is supposed to work, it's exactly how it is not supposed to work.

There's a chance this virus may not turn out to be as not as catastrophic as feared (though it has already been catastrophic). Of course there's a chance. What chance that that chance will turn out to be the case? Nobody knows. Who operates on chances on such a matter, or advocates we operates on chances? Chancers, that's who. I don't want chancers in charge of policy. We already have a litany of evidence worldwide from contemporary politics and policy making as to why it's a very bad idea to put chancers in charge.

A lot of sense talked in this post and can't disagree with a lot of the first section of the post. However I genuinely don't understand what you think should happen. You say that we don't know about this virus, whether there will be a second wave etc...etc....  (which is all right). But you then go on the somewhat hint at praise for the Irish governments response. So I am left wondering, what you actually think should happen ? Alot of your posts have been in response to people advocating the restart of our games, yet everyone I have seen is advocating it in line with the guidelines set out (with exception to the walking paths), and you call them chancers. So if the government are doing a good job (relatively) and this is all new (therefore the medical and scientific community advising the government are best placed) then surely you should be advocating that we follow the government plan?? Or What do you think should happen?
This is not a dig it's a genuine question. It's all very well to lay out googled stats and a post big long post calling other people chancers but what do you want? What parameters do you think should be laid out before we integrate into whatever the 'new normal' is going to be? What if there is never a vaccine? 
I and others have said we should follow the guidelines which at present say we start football again in July. Personally I say this because I just don't know as I am not an expert so I am following what the experts are saying. So what's your opinion? And if it differs to the experts, why?

I think the government have made mistakes, the really big one being the care homes. Overall I would give them a low pass mark. I think their tone has been good, in practice they've been less impressive. They were slow off the mark back in February/March, everybody was, they simply couldn't believe the magnitude of the problem they were suddenly facing and the measures that would be needed. Their testing and contact tracing strategy claimed similarity to South Korea, but they were nowhere near it, because of a consistent running down of state capacity, not just by the recent Fine Gael governments, but by many governments over several decades. But I guess the cavalier and often disgraceful attitude of certain high profile governments internationally sort of helps the impression one gets of our government Small mercies.

I'm am uneasy at the prospect of sport returning on July 20th, and would prefer a later date, but I uneasily accept it on the proviso that it is still nearly two months away, and on the proviso that all reopening measures are subject to immediate reverse should numbers not continue on their current trajectory. That latter point has to be rammed home at every opportunity - that the recovery in the public health situation is very fragile. If we are down to daily single figures of cases by then, preferably low single figures, I will cautiously accept a tentative restart.

What I strongly object to is the generalised impatient rhetoric and tone of people (again, hello Colm O'Rourke) that the worst is categorically over, that we need "less caution" and it's time to "open things up ta fook". This sort of American style attitude is something that has become increasingly pervasive, particularly across social media platforms, and it has real life consequences, and puts at risk the downward trend of the numbers. Tone is everything. Tone can determine how large numbers of people think, whether they are careless or responsible. For a while now, I've felt that the tone of carelessness has been winning, the first time I heard such a tone was on the Brendan O'Connor radio show on RTE 1 as far back as April 5th. Since then, domestic professional contrarian voices have grown ever louder, and international professional contrarian voices have been deafening. Carelessness is our enemy, caution is our friend.

[Cluborcountywhynotboth]

No i am saying keep social distance going in every normal day life things where possible
Walking Shopping Work etc
But my point is life must start moving again for example sport
The common flu can be passed on do we stop everything? The Covid virus is not as deadly as predicted. No where near in fact

The GAA does not exist in isolation. The GAA is part of society. Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports. In a normal week you have many hundreds, probably thousands of matches up and down the country. If the GAA starts playing again, that means all sports start playing again. More soccer matches take place in an average week than GAA matches. Then there are rugby matches and other sports. There are all kinds of civic social gatherings - educational, organisational, creative.

Every single one is a potential virus-spreading event.

If sport takes place, that sets an example to everybody else - an example that social distancing is not to be taken seriously.

The common flu is a known quantity. We know what it does, we know how to treat it.

We are learning more about Covid-19 everyday, but it is still not a known quantity in the real sense, we still do not have reliable treatments for it. It is a disease our bodies do not recognise. That's why it kills people.

353,000 people have died worldwide from Covid-19 wwith 5.7 million cases, and these are only the recorded figures. The real death figures could well be several times more, the real case figures are likely many times more.

And that's with lockdowns and social distancing. God knows what it would be without it.

This is a deadly virus. There is no room for debate about that. It is a fact.

We do not know how this virus will behave in the future. We hope it goes away, but there's no real evidence to suggest it will. We hope we will have effective treatments, but we currently don't. We hope we will have a vaccine, but that will take a significant length of time to emerge, if it ever does. We have to presume the virus will stick around and that another wave is likely, and if there's another wave, it could well be during the winter. We have to behave in a way that will reduce the spread of it, because if we don't we likely will have a public health catastrophe.

This is about basic morality. We are inconveniencing ourselves in what we hope and expect will be a temporary manner (but for how long we do not know, though it will likely be dependent on adherence to restrictions) to try and protect millions of people. Our policy makers (in some countries some of them, shamefully, do not act in good faith even on a matter of this seriousness - but in most countries they do - in Ireland they have done) are trying to create a situation where some sort of tenuous normality can occur within a framework of reducing the virus. Amateur sport comes near the bottom of priorities in that, and rightly so.

I have had little enough time for John Horan as GAA President, but on this issue he has acted in an examplary manner. He has shown leadership and has demonstrated that the GAA does not exist in isolation from society, and cannot behave as if it does. It is part of society. It cannot operate a pissing section in a swimming pool. It cannot operate a smoking section in an aeroplane.

People arguing the contrary are saying, "ah, it'll probably be grand". Wing and a prayer stuff. There is no evidence to back their rhetoric. That's not how public policy is supposed to work, it's exactly how it is not supposed to work.

There's a chance this virus may not turn out to be as not as catastrophic as feared (though it has already been catastrophic). Of course there's a chance. What chance that that chance will turn out to be the case? Nobody knows. Who operates on chances on such a matter, or advocates we operates on chances? Chancers, that's who. I don't want chancers in charge of policy. We already have a litany of evidence worldwide from contemporary politics and policy making as to why it's a very bad idea to put chancers in charge.

A lot of sense talked in this post and can't disagree with a lot of the first section of the post. However I genuinely don't understand what you think should happen. You say that we don't know about this virus, whether there will be a second wave etc...etc....  (which is all right). But you then go on the somewhat hint at praise for the Irish governments response. So I am left wondering, what you actually think should happen ? Alot of your posts have been in response to people advocating the restart of our games, yet everyone I have seen is advocating it in line with the guidelines set out (with exception to the walking paths), and you call them chancers. So if the government are doing a good job (relatively) and this is all new (therefore the medical and scientific community advising the government are best placed) then surely you should be advocating that we follow the government plan?? Or What do you think should happen?
This is not a dig it's a genuine question. It's all very well to lay out googled stats and a post big long post calling other people chancers but what do you want? What parameters do you think should be laid out before we integrate into whatever the 'new normal' is going to be? What if there is never a vaccine? 
I and others have said we should follow the guidelines which at present say we start football again in July. Personally I say this because I just don't know as I am not an expert so I am following what the experts are saying. So what's your opinion? And if it differs to the experts, why?

I think the government have made mistakes, the really big one being the care homes. Overall I would give them a low pass mark. I think their tone has been good, in practice they've been less impressive. They were slow off the mark back in February/March, everybody was, they simply couldn't believe the magnitude of the problem they were suddenly facing and the measures that would be needed. Their testing and contact tracing strategy claimed similarity to South Korea, but they were nowhere near it, because of a consistent running down of state capacity, not just by the recent Fine Gael governments, but by many governments over several decades. But I guess the cavalier and often disgraceful attitude of certain high profile governments internationally sort of helps the impression one gets of our government Small mercies.

I'm am uneasy at the prospect of sport returning on July 20th, and would prefer a later date, but I uneasily accept it on the proviso that it is still nearly two months away, and on the proviso that all reopening measures are subject to immediate reverse should numbers not continue on their current trajectory. That latter point has to be rammed home at every opportunity - that the recovery in the public health situation is very fragile. If we are down to daily single figures of cases by then, preferably low single figures, I will cautiously accept a tentative restart.

What I strongly object to is the generalised impatient rhetoric and tone of people (again, hello Colm O'Rourke) that the worst is categorically over, that we need "less caution" and it's time to "open things up ta fook". This sort of American style attitude is something that has become increasingly pervasive, particularly across social media platforms, and it has real life consequences, and puts at risk the downward trend of the numbers. Tone is everything. Tone can determine how large numbers of people think, whether they are careless or responsible. For a while now, I've felt that the tone of carelessness has been winning, the first time I heard such a tone was on the Brendan O'Connor radio show on RTE 1 as far back as April 5th. Since then, domestic professional contrarian voices have grown ever louder, and international professional contrarian voices have been deafening. Carelessness is our enemy, caution is our friend.

Thanks for such a well reasoned and detailed response and I agree with almost all of what you say. I think your correct in your summation of the governments response. They have appeared and sounded very assured but when you actually analyse the impact then it's slightly less impressive. Having said that, I would still give them a pass mark as a lot of what they got wrong are things which have been gotten wrong across the world (with obvious exceptions).
With regards easing of restrictions again I tend to agree with most of what you say, but I would add that, as I have said on other posts, this isn't a black and white case of be cautious or be careless there are so many aspects to this, not least the impact that lockdown is having on the physical and mental health of the population. It is not an easy solution by any means but we have to ensure that the cure (lockdown) does not end up worse than the disease. Hence why I would be keen to ease as much as possible as soon as possible but most importantly as safe as possible. It's all about the balance for me, and I suppose I am putting faith in the government and their advisers getting that balance right.

[Captain Obvious]

Do you know what the new normal will be like? Try it first to see.

And another one who is promoting the "new normal " . How about fook the new normal .

Theres lots of the normal that we shouldn't ever be returning too. The last few months was a real eyeopener to the rat race the so called normal was.

GAA also need to look at what was considered as normal, Did we really need amateur teams doing over the top training whereby some teams are fitter and more conditioned than some professional sports teams across the water?

[supersub]

Missing my point which is there are far too many who say on one hand we are heading for a "new normal " but on the other hand say it's unknown but shoot down people who remain optimistic that we will back to normal this time next year .

Interesting that our very own baldy George clooney (Tony houlihan) became a tad irate himself tonight when asked why secondary school students were addressed about zoom classroom behaviour going forward , the reporter then said shur it's there last day and we are going back to school next September, he then proceeded to tell us zoom classes/ E learning could be something used in education moving forward .  Now see this shit this is what is getting to us who are finding hard to cope with changes to life , it's like there is something not been told .

I'd rather die than live in the new normal for the rest of my days and I sincerely mean that .

Sorry but the more you explain your feelings, the clearer it is to me that you are in denial that there is going to be immediate change. I don't think either of your two points in bold are even debatable. In my opinion there will be changes to life over the next while and we are uncertain about the extent to which they will be..Would you not agree?

You have introduced a new timescale here however. You now say people who are optimistic about being back to normal this time next year are being shot down. From my point of view that simply is not the case. The point I was making was about the here and now, about the imminent changes to everyday life which are going to unfold over the next few weeks and months. By this time next year yes I would say there is a great chance we will be back to normal as we know it. However that was not the original sentiment here, it was those who wanted it to go back to normal right now were being questioned.

[GetOverTheBar]

Do you know what the new normal will be like? Try it first to see.

And another one who is promoting the "new normal " . How about fook the new normal .

Theres lots of the normal that we shouldn't ever be returning too. The last few months was a real eyeopener to the rat race the so called normal was.

GAA also need to look at what was considered as normal, Did we really need amateur teams doing over the top training whereby some teams are fitter and more conditioned than some professional sports teams across the water?

The fitness arms race will never stop in the GAA.

[Angelo]

Do you know what the new normal will be like? Try it first to see.

And another one who is promoting the "new normal " . How about fook the new normal .

Theres lots of the normal that we shouldn't ever be returning too. The last few months was a real eyeopener to the rat race the so called normal was.

GAA also need to look at what was considered as normal, Did we really need amateur teams doing over the top training whereby some teams are fitter and more conditioned than some professional sports teams across the water?

Is this not a myth?

Didn't Aaron Kernan look way out of place on the fitness levels with the Sunderland youth team that time?

I think it's the sort of back slapping the GAA likes to give itself about it's amateur status.

Association football requires far higher levels of fitness than a GAA player, you'll always have players in association football than can survive to a degree on their ability and brain because it's a cerebral game but the ones whose game is based on their engine would absolutely destroy the top GAA player in fitness terms.

[five points]

I think it's the sort of back slapping the GAA likes to give itself about it's amateur status.

And back in the day, the new Croke Park.

[Square Ball]

Ulster secretary, Bryan McAvoy was on Frank's U105 phone in this morning, diddnt catch it all, anyone know if it's available online?

[Captain Obvious]

Do you know what the new normal will be like? Try it first to see.

And another one who is promoting the "new normal " . How about fook the new normal .

Theres lots of the normal that we shouldn't ever be returning too. The last few months was a real eyeopener to the rat race the so called normal was.

GAA also need to look at what was considered as normal, Did we really need amateur teams doing over the top training whereby some teams are fitter and more conditioned than some professional sports teams across the water?

Is this not a myth?

Didn't Aaron Kernan look way out of place on the fitness levels with the Sunderland youth team that time?

I think it's the sort of back slapping the GAA likes to give itself about it's amateur status.

Association football requires far higher levels of fitness than a GAA player, you'll always have players in association football than can survive to a degree on their ability and brain because it's a cerebral game but the ones whose game is based on their engine would absolutely destroy the top GAA player in fitness terms.

Highly unlikely would all players across the water destroy the likes of Brian Fenton,Ciarán Kilkenny, Jack McCaffrey for fitness

Are you referring to something about 5 or 6 years ago with Kernan in his 30s and retired from inter County? If so He had this to say about his experience.

There is little difference between Sunderland and Armagh's physical preparations and is convinced GAA players' fitness levels are up there with the professional sportsmen.

Comparing the two, he said of soccer: "It's tougher in that they are picking from the whole world now – it's obviously a bigger pool. But is it tougher to get yourself in top condition to perform as an inter-county footballer? It is. Because that's their job and everything is laid on for them, whereas we can get to the same fitness level, same endurance level and all that without the same time to put in

Fitness and conditioning levels has ramped up again since Aaron left the county scene. We hear it often about the serious commitment required to be a county player nowadays especially for lads working full time and traveling long distances to training. It all results in some lads with years left deciding to retire early others opting out and some not returning.

[screenexile]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0528/1143212-counties-plan-as-gaa-clarify-social-distancing-stance/

Not exactly sure what this means... is it just Senior??

Surely they can't expect underage players to all arrive seperately to games?? Will it just be championship?

[Smurfy123]

Might get parents to go watch matches that they have kids involved in
As I said before Horan went on a solo run which he should not have done
The government give out a road map of return to play July 20
Return to train June 8 whilst keeping social distancing measures
Why he went on a solo nobody knows

[Last Caress]

Might get parents to go watch matches that they have kids involved in
As I said before Horan went on a solo run which he should not have done
The government give out a road map of return to play July 20
Return to train June 8 whilst keeping social distancing measures
Why he went on a solo nobody knows

Smurfy I Think it's time you got yourself back to the Down Discussion Board and defended that club of yours. It's just been named and shamed.