British State Collusion

[Walter Cronc]

The fact that a story about security force collusion and murder during the troubles has descended to the point of being a football to be kicked about for political point scoring within the nationalist community is pathetic.

Playing out exactly as the Unionists want it!!

[deiseach]

The fact that a story about security force collusion and murder during the troubles has descended to the point of being a football to be kicked about for political point scoring within the nationalist community is pathetic.

So how should this play out?

[Ulick]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

Bollocks it is. Alban Maginness regularly denied the extent of collusion and called for nationalists to join the RUC. Similarly Austin Currie, Gerry Fitt, Joe Hendron, Eddy McGrady and Frank Feely to name just a few that I can remember.   

[Nally Stand]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

A lie?! What planet were you living on?? Why then did they state in a news conference after Alex Maskey's attempted murder by the UDA, that he was likely shot by fellow republicans, and why did they persist with this line even after a confession by Brian Nelson? If they didn't deny collusion, why did they initially describe Flanagan as "someone they could work with" and who "wanted to edge policing forward"? Why did they encourage support for the RUC?

[dec]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

Bollocks it is. Alban Maginness regularly denied the extent of collusion and called for nationalists to join the RUC. Similarly Austin Currie, Gerry Fitt, Joe Hendron, Eddy McGrady and Frank Feely to name just a few that I can remember.   

Bullshit.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/14604

"According to state papers released by the British Government under the 30-year rule the collusion of official state forces with unofficial unionist paramilitaries had been raised by the then West Belfast MP Gerry Fitt shortly after the Newtownabbey killings. The British Minister was informed that the RUC had been alerted to the loyalist attack half an hour before the shooting but only arrived at the scene five minutes after the teenagers had been fatally wounded. "

[Hardy]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

A lie?! What planet were you living on?? Why then did they state in a news conference after Alex Maskey's attempted murder by the UDA, that he was likely shot by fellow republicans, and why did they persist with this line even after a confession by Brian Nelson? If they didn't deny collusion, why did they initially describe Flanagan as "someone they could work with" and who "wanted to edge policing forward"? Why did they encourage support for the RUC?

For completeness (from the Belfast Telegraph, 23 January, 2007):

SDLP leader Mark Durkan told the Belfast Telegraph that the Ombudsman's report had left Sir Ronnie with no option but to stand down from his position within HMIC.

He said: "He was the head of Special Branch and then the Chief Constable during the most serious episodes of collusion revealed by Nuala O'Loan. He was never a man who gave the impression of being remote or detached from what was going on in his organisation.

"Either he was not in control of a dysfunctional organisation, or he knew full well but kept the truth hidden. In either event, he should not head up the Inspectorate of Constabulary."

[Nally Stand]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

A lie?! What planet were you living on?? Why then did they state in a news conference after Alex Maskey's attempted murder by the UDA, that he was likely shot by fellow republicans, and why did they persist with this line even after a confession by Brian Nelson? If they didn't deny collusion, why did they initially describe Flanagan as "someone they could work with" and who "wanted to edge policing forward"? Why did they encourage support for the RUC?

For completeness (from the Belfast Telegraph, 23 January, 2007):

SDLP leader Mark Durkan told the Belfast Telegraph that the Ombudsman's report had left Sir Ronnie with no option but to stand down from his position within HMIC.

He said: "He was the head of Special Branch and then the Chief Constable during the most serious episodes of collusion revealed by Nuala O'Loan. He was never a man who gave the impression of being remote or detached from what was going on in his organisation.

"Either he was not in control of a dysfunctional organisation, or he knew full well but kept the truth hidden. In either event, he should not head up the Inspectorate of Constabulary."

This as a result of Nuala O'Loan's report. Why the support up to then?

[Hardy]

As I said - posted in the interest of completeness. On reflection, balance would be better, as no account can be fully complete, but it's good to strive for it.

[NAG1]

I tend not to enter into these debates because of the stupid petty point scoring that goes on within here on the board and within the so called nationalist constituency. However this one takes the biscuit, on the day where a book has been released (maybe nothing new or that we didnt know) highlighting the fact that the 'State' authorities more or less sanctioned the killing of people from within our own community, it is a bit of a disgrace the petty squabbles that are on here.

Firstly we should remember the lives cut short by these murderous squads and the families left behind.

Secondly we should be putting the message out to the world that this is what the British government engaged in within our country and against the Irish people.

[gallsman]

The fact that a story about security force collusion and murder during the troubles has descended to the point of being a football to be kicked about for political point scoring within the nationalist community is pathetic.

So how should this play out?

Uncover the truth. Prosecute those responsible. Honour the victims.

No faction on the nationalist side has the right to use this issue to batter another to score cheap points

[Nally Stand]

For what it's worth, nothing said here will impact on party politics. Anything I posted about the SDLP was posted out of sheer disgust at them and I stand by it, not only for their dismissive attitude to concerns about collusion in murders around the local area, but also of their treatment of families since. But of course it should be about honouring the victims. This story should be getting a lot more coverage than it has been. Not even a mention of it on RTE News website.

[Feckitt]

It was on RTE last night at 9.00pm

[Applesisapples]

No lover of the SDLP myself, I cannot however let them all be tarred with the one brush on this. Seamus Mallon was quite clear on Radio Ulster in recent days that he had raised state collusion at the highest levels. He also attributed blame to those at the highest levels in both the security forces and cabinet level. But those on here bleating about collusion are the same people who would claim that Thomas Begley was a soldier in a war and that the people on the Shankill Road were civilian casulties. A little consistency is required. If you are going to condemn (as they should be) the actions of the state then lets also condemn thae actions of the IRA and others who took innocent life.

[Ulick]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

Bollocks it is. Alban Maginness regularly denied the extent of collusion and called for nationalists to join the RUC. Similarly Austin Currie, Gerry Fitt, Joe Hendron, Eddy McGrady and Frank Feely to name just a few that I can remember.   

Bullshit.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/14604

"According to state papers released by the British Government under the 30-year rule the collusion of official state forces with unofficial unionist paramilitaries had been raised by the then West Belfast MP Gerry Fitt shortly after the Newtownabbey killings. The British Minister was informed that the RUC had been alerted to the loyalist attack half an hour before the shooting but only arrived at the scene five minutes after the teenagers had been fatally wounded. "

I'm sure that copy and paste is supposed to be a retort to something, what, I can't quite tell. Certainly nothing that I posted previously.

[dec]

Deiseach, I lived through it and listened to that from a stream of sdlp people. It was their line. I will never forget that. You have just ignored every point I made above, which says a lot.

You can't provide a single reference for it, because it's a lie.

Bollocks it is. Alban Maginness regularly denied the extent of collusion and called for nationalists to join the RUC. Similarly Austin Currie, Gerry Fitt, Joe Hendron, Eddy McGrady and Frank Feely to name just a few that I can remember.   

Bullshit.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/14604

"According to state papers released by the British Government under the 30-year rule the collusion of official state forces with unofficial unionist paramilitaries had been raised by the then West Belfast MP Gerry Fitt shortly after the Newtownabbey killings. The British Minister was informed that the RUC had been alerted to the loyalist attack half an hour before the shooting but only arrived at the scene five minutes after the teenagers had been fatally wounded. "

I'm sure that copy and paste is supposed to be a retort to something, what, I can't quite tell. Certainly nothing that I posted previously.

"Alban Maginness regularly denied the extent of collusion and called for nationalists to join the RUC. Similarly Austin Currie, Gerry Fitt, Joe Hendron, Eddy McGrady and Frank Feely to name just a few that I can remember.   "

Rather than denying collusion Gerry Fitt actually raised the subject with the Brits in 1974.