British State Collusion

[lynchbhoy]

Yep it is inconsequential enough alright!
I'm prob just being pedantic! - but then again I'm not the one making the unsubstantiated claim!

[thebigfella]

Listen what ever you argue Adams was/is up to his neck in it. Grow up the f**king lot of you   

[lynchbhoy]

Here is a question to the people who demand that actual proof is produced when others state that Adams was a member of the IRA........

Where is the actual proof that Thatcher personally authorised the Shoot to Kill policy in N Ireland during the troubles?

Actually people believe that if an open tribunal was allowed this may actually be proven!
If not then it would at least then be disproven.
I don't know if they could hang that one on thatcher though! I'd doubt it , but that's a personal opinion.

[Gaffer]

It may be proven if it were true. Then again it may not be true. There is no proof  just like there is no proof about Adams.

[lynchbhoy]

Listen what ever you argue Adams was/is up to his neck in it. Grow up the f**king lot of you   

Unless you can prove otherwise I don't believe the useless hoor could have done anything other than talk the length of himself.
I'd be very intrigued to see something of note on this- nothing but here say yet.
Don't be portraying this twit to be an activist when he is a self publicist at best!

[give her dixie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21283169


Pat Finucane killing: 'Far worse than anything alleged in Iraq or Afghanistan'

One of David Cameron's closest advisors described the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane as far worse than anything alleged in Iraq or Afghanistan, the High Court has heard.

Sir Jeremy Heywood also questioned whether the prime minister believed it was right to "renege" on a previous administration's commitment to hold a public inquiry into a killing.

His family are challenging that decision.

Mr Finucane was shot dead in 1989.

On Thursday, Mr Justice Stephens heard how Mr Heywood, now cabinet secretary, referred to Mr Finucane's murder as "a dark moment in the country's history".

Details of emailed correspondence between the top civil servant and another senior Downing Street official were revealed as lawyers for the Finucane family pressed for complete disclosure of notes or recordings from a series of ministerial meetings.

They want the material as part of their legal challenge to the British government's refusal to order a full, independent probe into the 1989 assassination.

A review carried out by lawyer Sir Desmond de Silva QC and published in December confirmed agents of the state were involved in the murder and that it should have been prevented.

Collusion
However, it concluded there had been no overarching state conspiracy in the shooting, carried out by the loyalist Ulster Freedom Fighters at the solicitor's north Belfast home.

Although Mr Cameron expressed shock at the level of collusion uncovered by Sir Desmond, Mr Finuncane's widow, Geraldine claimed it was a sham and a whitewash.

Opening the family's application for discovery of the documents, Barry Macdonald QC said the case was about past and present abuse of state power.

The first instance in 1989 involved the murder of a solicitor perceived to be "a thorn in the side" of the government, police and security services, he claimed.

Mr Macdonald continued: "Secondly, it's about abuse of power in 2011 by the current government when it decided to renege on a solemn commitment to conduct a public inquiry into those events in 1989."

The full scale of what went on has yet to be revealed, according to the barrister.

He told Mr Justice Stephens: "The applicant, Mrs Finucane, knows the name of the person who pulled the trigger. The question is who was pulling the strings?

"In a 500-page report by Sir Desmond de Silva, consideration of the government's role takes up five pages."

Stressing the gravity of the case, Mr Macdonald detailed an email Sir Jeremy sent to Simon King, a private secretary to the prime minister, ahead of a ministerial meeting in July 2011.

In correspondence already disclosed to the parties, he asked: "Does the prime minister seriously think that it's right to renege on a previous government's clear commitment to hold a full judicial inquiry?

"This was a dark moment in the country's history - far worse than anything that was alleged in Iraq/Afghanistan.

"I cannot really think of any argument to defend not having a public inquiry. What am I missing?"

A reply email stated that the prime minister "shares the view this is an awful case, and as bad as it gets, and far worse than any post 9/11 allegation", the court heard.

Transcripts
According to Mr Macdonald, the exchange provided a flavour of the seriousness of the alleged abuse of power in not holding a public inquiry.

Material being sought by the Finuncanes' lawyers includes original notes, minutes, recordings or transcripts of:

A meeting between the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and Prime Minister on November 5, 2011
A meeting of officials from the Northern Ireland Office, Cabinet Office and Prime Minister's Office on May 16, 2011
A meeting of ministers on July 11, 2011
A Cabinet meeting on October 11, 2011
Copies of letters from MI5 to the Northern Ireland Office in February and March 2011
Paul McLaughlin, appearing for the government, told the court that the decision taken in the Finucane case followed a detailed balancing exercise.

He said it involved weighing any commitment by a previous government against current public interest.

Mr McLaughlin also pointed out that retired Canadian Judge Peter Cory had already examined the case and concluded there should be a public inquiry.

He argued that some of the material being sought would not advance the plaintiff's cause any further.

In a statement, a spokesperson for the prime minister said: "There is nothing we want to add to this story."

Mr Finucane was shot dead by loyalists in front of his wife and children at his north Belfast home in 1989.

Mr Cameron acknowledged in 2011 there had been state collusion in Mr Finucane's murder and apologised to his family.

The hearing continues.

[Harold Disgracey]

Worth a read.

http://www.spinwatch.org/images/Countergangs1971-76.pdf

[Nally Stand]

Letter to The Irish Times by the brother of Vol. Mairead Farrell, who while unarmed and with her hands in the air, was shot dead at close range by the SAS (eight times in the back and face), alongside Vols Sean Savage (shot between 16 & 18 times) & Daniel McCann (shot 5 times) 25 years ago.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/gibraltar-killings-recalled-1.1340634#.UVPom40Xjcg.twitter

A chara, –
Some things seem never to change: 25 years since the Gibraltar killings and the only reference we find in The Irish Times is a preview of a London play setting out how the British establishment would prefer the shootings to be remembered. All other cultural events marking the anniversary are ignored: from a play on the life of my sister Mairead Farrell to the re-publication in e-format of the epic satirical poem on those shootings, Gib: A Modest Exposure by a Scots academic, the late Jack Mitchell.
Mark Hennessy (Weekend Review, March 23rd) uncritically presents a hackneyed thesis in the play placing the blame for the killings on IRA "doves", who wanted the three hardliners killed. Unsettling for the British lawyer playwright no doubt is that the European Court of Human Rights didn't see it that way. It found the British government guilty of the "unlawful killing" of the trio, who were unarmed – something your report fails to make clear. The report attempts to dilute that powerful verdict by noting the Strasbourg court did not grant "compensation" to the families – nothing could have compensated my elderly parents for the loss of their only daughter.
What should stand centre stage 25 years on, is that the IRA's guns have fallen silent, but not the weaponry of the other protagonist, the British state. We have just marked the 10th anniversary of the US and British illegal Iraq war. More than one million innocent people have been killed. And the British state continues to wage war in foreign lands.
Sinn Féin is regularly baited in the Dáil by Enda Kenny Eamon Gilmore for IRA murders. What rank hypocrisy; their Government, like consecutive Irish coalitions, is an accomplice in the US's imperial wars by allowing Shannon airport to be turned into a US military hub.
In one way, times have changed. Twenty-five years ago, Margaret Thatcher denied there was a shoot-to-kill policy. Today, Barack Obama does not. Every Tuesday he picks his "kill list" for the week. Mass killings by drones are good. They even transport the weaponry via Shannon.
The playwright Brendan Behan grasped the difference between terrorism and state violence, when he said: It is easy to spot the terrorist. He's the one with the small bomb. –   Is mise,
NIALL FARRELL,
Oranmore,
Co Galway.

[AQMP]

Last Sunday while all the furore over Thomas Begley was going on the British Army paraded through the centre of Enniskillen to mark the end of the Royal Inniskillings as a separate regiment (or something like that).  The event finished with a religious service in the local Church of Ireland church.

Insensitive??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24645945

[Nally Stand]

Good to see unionism coming out and condemning this widespread state murder campaign. So far this morning I've heard Tom Elliot say that collusion didn't happen and he should know because he was in the UDR for 18 years and that any time a weapon "went missing", that "they were always recovered and recovered quickly". Oddly, innocent Catholics seemed to get shot while they were missing but that's just coincidence, right Tom?  The other unionist i've heard from today was Wee Jeffrey Donaldson who said he was worried that this book is just making an attempt to rewrite history.

[Hardy]

That's just funny. He doesn't seem to realise he's confirming that weapons went missing on a somewhat regular basis.

[Shamrock Shore]

How can any sane person come out and say there was no collusion between loyalist murder gangs and the state forces?

Or have I answered my own question?

[No Soloing]

Good to see unionism coming out and condemning this widespread state murder campaign. So far this morning I've heard Tom Elliot say that collusion didn't happen and he should know because he was in the UDR for 18 years and that any time a weapon "went missing", that "they were always recovered and recovered quickly". Oddly, innocent Catholics seemed to get shot while they were missing but that's just coincidence, right Tom?  The other unionist i've heard from today was Wee Jeffrey Donaldson who said he was worried that this book is just making an attempt to rewrite history.

Jeff is laughable. He admitted he hadnt seen the evidence of collusion, yet he is happy to go on the radio and spout on dismissing it.
I turned off when he started his 'rewrite history' spiel as I did want to listen to his horsesh*t yet again. Its his new mantra. When different narratives come out that dont fit with the cosy Unionist/British view of things it cant just be dismissed as an attempt to re-write history. History has been wrong and rewritten many times in the past. So, in NI it is imperative that attempts are made to 'rewrite history' - then we might actually get a version that is somewhere close to the truth. The old saying that history is written by the winners is so true - and for a long time the Unionist/British version of the truth was the only version because they were in authority. Are there still people out there who will only accept the official version of something and never question it?

NI will never move on until all politicians accept that there was wrong done by republicans, loyalists and the security forces. It doesnt matter who started what, or who was the worst, it matters that all sides, by their on nefarious ways, kept the conflict going for decades.

"I was never aware of any other option but to question everything." - Noam Chomsky (and definitely not Jeffery Donaldson)

[Applesisapples]

What would you expect from Jeffrey and Tom, two fine examples of UDR soldiery. I slept safe in my bed knowing these two last action heroes were out at night keeping us safe from men wielding hurling sticks and O'Neills "All Ireland Footballs"...lethal weapons...oh and sure didn't Aidan McAnespie shoot first!

[Feckitt]

Jeffrey Donaldson has no class whatsoever, and Tom Elliot actually is a simpleton.

In this new book, it details overwhelming evidence of RUC and UDR collusion in 120 murders.  120!!!!!  The vast majority of the information is not actually new at all, and has been well known and documented for years.  So how can Elliot say this morning that there was no collusion.  He is entitled to argue the point on any individual case as to whether there was collusion or not, but he is actually saying that he will ignore the evidence of 120 murders and stick to the line that there was no collusion

As i've already said, Elliot is actually a fool, but Jeffrey Donaldson isn't.  Both of them should be ashamed of themselves.