Pick your team> Kinahans or Hutches ?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Cocaine is a stimulant, a lot of people would only use cocaine in association with alcohol to get through the night.

[Il Bomber Destro]

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

Matthew Macklin is in balls deep with the Kinahins, he has Macklin's Gym Marbella (MGM) which the Kinahins are heavily involved in. Jamie Moore, who was Macklin's trainer was mistakenly shot when the intended target was the father of the lad heading the fight card (Jamie Kavanagh) who the Kinahins subsequently bumped off, allegedly.

[Franko]

What's the story with the boxing connection? Kinahan is a boxing promoter? What fight was he promoting?

Nothing about pro boxing would shock me (and this story confirms some prejudices based on some of the types who populate Irish pro boxing audiences). But who runs pro boxing in Ireland? Is there an official body and are they amenable to the Sports Council and if so what has the Sports Council to say about all this and what's the National Stadium doing hosting events put up by gangsters?

Matthew Macklin is in balls deep with the Kinahins, he has Macklin's Gym Marbella (MGM) which the Kinahins are heavily involved in. Jamie Moore, who was Macklin's trainer was mistakenly shot when the intended target was the father of the lad heading the fight card (Jamie Kavanagh) who the Kinahins subsequently bumped off, allegedly.

I read this earlier in the week and I have to say that this story baffles me a little.  Why is Jamie Kavanagh still in tight with the Kinahans who, by all accounts, shot his father?

[johnneycool]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

[AZOffaly]

So what about the link that says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on Cannabis. If Cannabis wasn't there, would their first illegal drug be Cocaine or Heroin, or would they not be inclined to use either?

I would certainly see it as a possibility that someone who uses cannabis would be more predisposed to trying Cocaine. I doubt using Cannabis itself causes the urge, but I'm wondering if the initial step would be too big if they hadn't gotten comfortable using an illegal drug like cannabis.

I think we're saying More or less the same thing, AZ. But the link says that most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on cannabis. That's probably not true. Most people who are cocaine/heroin users would have started off on nicotine and alcohol. The point is that they would have used all three drugs along the way, but the study only refers to their use of cannabis.

The difference? Legality and illegality. I suggest there is no "gateway" or conduit between cannabis and harder drugs, as postulated. What there is is a barrier between legal and illegal drugs. Which is why I think the argument that legalising cannabis would expose more people to harder drugs doesn't hold any water a all. If cannabis was legal, the barrier between, on the one hand, cannabis, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, etc. and, on the other hand, hard drugs would be as significant as the barrier between, say nicotine and cannabis is now.

OK, but it's harder to get cannabis than to get alcohol. Not difficult, but certainly not as easy. If that was made legal, and more people used a drug, do you not think more people would be more curious about Cocaine.

I'm no scientist, nor am I an expert on drugs. I've never smoked pot, nor have I the inclination to do so. I do drink, and I used to smoke cigarettes years ago. I just don't think we can be sure that exposing more people to cannabis would *not* lead to more of them trying other drugs later on. Even if it's not a direct cause and effect, and is more along the lines of 'ah sure Cannabis did me no harm, an auld line of coke isn't going to hurt me'.

You live in the USA right? Do you really think it is harder for U-21's to get cannabis than alcohol? Ask them.

No I don't. I live in Ireland. I used to live in Arizona for 4 years in the late 90s early 00s.

[AZOffaly]

Does the buzz of a couple pints get weaker and have you ever thought "jeez I should consider some cocaine as the pints aren't getting it done for me"? I'd highly doubt it.

You've never gone onto the Shorts after a feed of pints? Do Alcholics not move from Beer to hard liquor quite regularly? And you've kind of added to the perception there. Most people who drink beer wouldn't jump from beer to cocaine. But a lot of people who use cocaine started out with cannabis.

I'm not sure there's causation, but I'm not sure there's not.

Alcohol is the the same drug in pints and shorts. If someone is a regular cannabis user they might move to try different strains for strength or type of effect. You know that the active ingredient in cocaine is different right?

I realise that. Lookit, I realise a lot of lads like cannabis, and I'm sure a lot of lads on here have far more knowledge about it than I. I just don't like the automatic reaction of 'It should be legalised, and then that will do away with the drugs gangs'. If you could show me that there is 100% no link between a progression from Cannabis to other drugs, then I wouldn't give a shite. But if we are legalising Cannabis, and by doing so there is a chance that we expose more people to the culture of recreational drug use, and therefore harder drugs, then I don't think it's worth it.

[AZOffaly]

I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

Possibly, but again I'd like to see the science here. In fact it's probably more than likely. When I talk of the 'culture' of recreational drug use, and the lad stuck in the middle of it with his few ecstasy tablets or whatever, it's probably reinforced because it's illegal and drives users into that scene.

[NAG1]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

I would have thought, its one of two things a) it was the tipped off journo who took the pictures that pixelated the faces b) it was the gardi to prevent reprisal shootings automatically.

Either way it is strange set of circumstances all round.

[omagh_gael]

How do you know that there was a tipped off Journo? Is this widely known? I had heard a lot of the media stayed away as they were aware something could go down.

[Zulu]

I agree with hardy - the "gateway" link is based largely on their illegality.

Possibly, but again I'd like to see the science here. In fact it's probably more than likely. When I talk of the 'culture' of recreational drug use, and the lad stuck in the middle of it with his few ecstasy tablets or whatever, it's probably reinforced because it's illegal and drives users into that scene.

But AZ, the Guardian article you posted stated what I understand to be the scientific situation, there is no known causal link between cannabis use and harder drugs. In fact, there probably is a greater link between alcohol and cocaine use than cannabis use. Besides, if a kid wants to try cannabis (or any other drug) then it is relatively easy for them to get it, so how would legalising cannabis make it more likely that those who want to try it do so?

As far as I can see cannabis has no real negative social impact in of itself but keeping it illegal helps fund crime and stigmatises thousands of people who are taking nothing more harmful than a cigarette or pint of Guinness. 

[NAG1]

How do you know that there was a tipped off Journo? Is this widely known? I had heard a lot of the media stayed away as they were aware something could go down.

Do you think that the picture was a casual passer by? 

A lot of the sport media may well have stayed away but the others......?

[AZOffaly]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..



There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Is that a man on the left? Surely that's a woman!

[thebigfella]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

Is this not a picture of Love/Hate being filmed on location?

[gallsman]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..



There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Is that a man on the left? Surely that's a woman!

One of them infamously dressed as a woman, which just adds to how surreal the while thing is

[LeoMc]

Lynn Boylan MEP ‏@LNBDublin 34m34 minutes ago South Dublin, Ireland

2 armed & dangerous men are at large in the city & gardaí pixelate their faces? Why?

I was wondering that myself, surely the Guards would want to know who they are and if they already know, then I'm sure they'd want to know where they are if any member of the public spotted them..

There seems to more to this than we're being told.

Would it be so as to not prejudice a future trial?
If there faces are published it potentially influences witnesses who have seen the photos.
Defense QC" Are you sure this is the man you saw with a gun or has your memory been tainted by this blurry photo in the papers?"
If reasonable doubt can be cast on the witnesses the photo is the only evidence. Would the photographer give it up or could it be proved it was not tampered with or taken at that time? Again the potential for reasonable doubt?