A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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marty34

Quote from: t_mac on August 15, 2019, 03:07:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 15, 2019, 03:01:18 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 15, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 15, 2019, 11:02:29 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 14, 2019, 08:07:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 14, 2019, 07:51:15 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 14, 2019, 06:53:08 PM
I suspect her opinion originates with the pro business economic model in the South and radiates from there. Homelessness and the state of the Health Service in the South probably confound her opinion. Im guessing she probably doesnt have a good gauge of the severity of the present homelessness problem across the developed World.

I dont think she is typical of a sizable section of middle class Catholics who are unionist when it comes to sovereignty. Typically they are more worried about firstly their pensions and secondly distancing themselves from Republicanism which they see as undignified and lacking IQ. Tho the weak pound and immigration controls could affect their holidays on the continent could begin to influence their opinion.

In short Bernie has her opinion but its only that, her politics would not appeal to the the unionist leaning Catholics nor the left wingers as the vast majority are Sinn bots, even more so as when it comes to sovereignty its the glue that keeps them together.

There would never be a united Ireland if the ROI had not made itself prosperous with a pro business model. Homelessness does reflect poorly on the Irish government, but it is largely because people want to live in the 26 counties, there is less in places like Derry because people move away. As for the health service, the limitations of the 26 county health service are rightly publicised, but people live longer in the 26 counties and things like cancer survival rates are noticeably better. If anyone thinks the health service is not a reason for unity then they are very ignorant. Even this week, ambulances from the south have had to be based in Derry and Newry as there aren't enough locally.

McAliskey is like the Shinners, eloquent on how money should be spent, while silent on how the money is to be made in order to have some to spend. It is essentially teenage politics and as you said this low IQ politics puts middle of the ground people off.

It's more the perception that the South s health service is bad and that you have to pay for it.

But yes knowing/idealizing  how to spend money is simple but knowing how to raise it is the real trick. In saying that tho, being constrained and consequently proped up by London is no healthy or sustainable state of affairs either.
The UK NHS is in crisis and it is unlikely to continue in the same model, free at the point of delivery. Brexit quite likely will be the final nail. A hybrid system such as the South's is coming down the tracks at people currently under 40. at the very least charges for prescriptions and GP visits are inevitable in the course of the next few years.

Big fan of the NHS but I do think some sort of nominal charge for a GP visit should be applied, if only to root out the timewasters.

Stick in some sort of clause whereby you didn't pay more for multiple visits for the same condition (on the Doctor's say-so).

There are a serious amount of people who wouldn't actually need an antibiotic for a head cold if they had to pay a tenner for it.

I agree - £5 for each visit for U50's say. I remembering being with doctors last year and there was stats up on an electronic board in reception stating how many people missed appointments in that particular clinic last year.  I can't remember the figure but I remember thinking, that's crazy.  Some waste of money there if replicated in every surgery.

Yes, well i agree with charging for missed appointments. Next time they ring up for one, tell them the doctor won't be seeing you until you settle your bill.

And can you claim if your appointment is late, like flights, people very readily accept sitting for hours in a waiting room past their appointment time as some gobshite is in wasting the doctors time.

I think it was more a case of people booking appointments, then not turning up iirc.  Loads of people needing an appointment, but time slots were booked, but then nobody turning up.

A simple issue like this of charging, not making money but just cost and more importantly, time effective.

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: Franko on August 15, 2019, 01:14:11 PM

Big fan of the NHS but I do think some sort of nominal charge for a GP visit should be applied, if only to root out the timewasters.

Stick in some sort of clause whereby you didn't pay more for multiple visits for the same condition (on the Doctor's say-so).

There are a serious amount of people who wouldn't actually need an antibiotic for a head cold if they had to pay a tenner for it.

Same here. Despite the doom mongers the NHS in N.Ireland does an unbelievable job.

The problem that has developed is that people are so used to feeling entitled to everything being free that they now want no restriction on provision. An example is free prescriptions, there needs to be a restriction on what can be prescribed for free and those who can pay should make some contribution to at least pay for the prescription charges. 

The waste in prescribing is an on-going and uncontrolled issue. Also the waste in items that can be reused is an issue, e.g. crutches, moon boots, zimmer frames, rollators, etc are all non-returnable or collected for recycling as scrap metal rather than re-use.

Missed appointments are the major cost to the NHS and severely decrease its efficiency. They play an important part in keeping waiting list longer as doctors are left sitting doing nothing during planned clinical sessions that can never be recovered. Those who miss appointments should face a penalty to make major inroads. All clinics and doctors' surgeries are now showing the number of missed appointments and they are a concern.


screenexile

Sure there was talk of bringing in a nominal prescription charge to try and weed out people taking the piss but when they looked at it they saw it couldn't work because the administration of it would cost more than the money it would bring in!

I'm guessing it's likewise with a charge to see the doctor. If you had to pay a tenner you would soon see GP surgeries clear out and waiting lists disappear!!

THe problem is though how do you decide who the most vulnerable are who should get it for free. The govt have made a complete mess of universal credit I don't see how they can't c**k this one up as well!!

armaghniac

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on August 15, 2019, 04:35:52 PM


The waste in prescribing is an on-going and uncontrolled issue. Also the waste in items that can be reused is an issue, e.g. crutches, moon boots, zimmer frames, rollators, etc are all non-returnable or collected for recycling as scrap metal rather than re-use.

Shocking that these cannot be re-used, but even if NI does not want them they should not go to recycling but to Syria or someplace.


Quote
Missed appointments are the major cost to the NHS and severely decrease its efficiency. They play an important part in keeping waiting list longer as doctors are left sitting doing nothing during planned clinical sessions that can never be recovered. Those who miss appointments should face a penalty to make major inroads. All clinics and doctors' surgeries are now showing the number of missed appointments and they are a concern.

The flip side of this that they need to embrace technology at all venues and ensure reminders and automatic calendar entries etc. Even if they are running late they could notify you and tell you to come in 20mins rather than making you sit around pointlessly.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

omaghjoe

The free at point of service is a rallying call for Corbyn. IT will run the NHS into the ground

One free appointment per year for checkup and a charge if you need additional. U13 and O60 obviously should be given more/completely free. Would be a good starting point

As for antibiotics dont get me started, if you take a sick wean to the doctor they'll tell you its a virus and then proceed to superscribe antibiotics!!! 7 years trainng for that... WTF

Denn Forever

I thought antibiotics didn't work on Viruses.
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

Mossy Bruce

LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

Applesisapples

Quote from: omaghjoe on August 15, 2019, 05:09:34 PM
The free at point of service is a rallying call for Corbyn. IT will run the NHS into the ground

One free appointment per year for checkup and a charge if you need additional. U13 and O60 obviously should be given more/completely free. Would be a good starting point

As for antibiotics dont get me started, if you take a sick wean to the doctor they'll tell you its a virus and then proceed to superscribe antibiotics!!! 7 years trainng for that... WTF
Bullshit and disingenuous, GP's train for 4 years after graduation and none of us would put up with the crap they have to go through to get there. I have never met a GP yet who would dish out unwarranted Ab's. There is a shortage of GP's for very obvious reasons.

t_mac

In my surgery they have left a prescription at reception for antibiotics without seeing me, they have also done this for other members of my family, this is from a triage of a minute over the phone.

Rossfan

Meanwhile back to United Ireland... 
Will you folks in the 6 be having a Census in 2021?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

6th sam

Quote from: t_mac on August 16, 2019, 10:15:53 AM
In my surgery they have left a prescription at reception for antibiotics without seeing me, they have also done this for other members of my family, this is from a triage of a minute over the phone.
The nhs is a brilliant concept which is under serious pressure with an ageing population, relatively reducing resources , and unreasonable expectations/demands from the public

johnnycool

Quote from: Rossfan on August 16, 2019, 10:39:12 AM
Meanwhile back to United Ireland... 
Will you folks in the 6 be having a Census in 2021?

Yes, but expect some gurning about how certain questions are worded.

armaghniac

Quote from: michaelg on May 27, 2015, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: dec on May 27, 2015, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: dec on May 27, 2015, 06:00:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 05:38:24 PM
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.

Rather than recognise their identity and look to ways that it could be incorporated into a united Ireland you simply tell them "No you're not British" and expect them to agree to it. If you can't understand why that won't persuade them into a united Ireland then there is nothing I can say that will get you to understand.

They may consider themselves as being of British heritage if they wish, but that has no implications for political structures any more than Irish Americans required to be actually ruled from Dublin. All I want is normality.
Except for the fact that Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom.

And a lot of people still die from cancer, but progress will be made in both situations.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

johnnycool

Quote from: armaghniac on August 16, 2019, 11:12:57 AM
Quote from: michaelg link=topic=25844.msg1472844#msg1472844 date=b]1432749027[/b]]
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: dec on May 27, 2015, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: dec on May 27, 2015, 06:00:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 05:38:24 PM
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.

Rather than recognise their identity and look to ways that it could be incorporated into a united Ireland you simply tell them "No you're not British" and expect them to agree to it. If you can't understand why that won't persuade them into a united Ireland then there is nothing I can say that will get you to understand.

They may consider themselves as being of British heritage if they wish, but that has no implications for political structures any more than Irish Americans required to be actually ruled from Dublin. All I want is normality.
Except for the fact that Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom.

And a lot of people still die from cancer, but progress will be made in both situations.

4 Years later.

I think there's significant progress on both.

Applesisapples

Quote from: t_mac on August 16, 2019, 10:15:53 AM
In my surgery they have left a prescription at reception for antibiotics without seeing me, they have also done this for other members of my family, this is from a triage of a minute over the phone.
Presumably not before ascertaining that you actually need them.