Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

Started by caprea, February 13, 2020, 05:38:52 AM

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JoG2

Quote from: BennyCake on February 20, 2020, 12:11:42 AM
Speaking of rugby numbers. Spoke to someone who goes to the odd game. I asked how much, and was told about £200 a ticket. f**k off I says. I thought they were taking the piss.

So I priced a ticket v Italy in March. Sure enough, cheapest £190. Sweet mother of divine Christ! What the f**k is wrong with people?? I'm gonna give him a slap next time I see him.

eh? I've been to the 2 previous Italy games and paid no more than £48 for my ticket

caprea

So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?

Look-Up!

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?
Ah here look, we're going way off on a tangent now. I don't know what would happen there but for the IC players looking for money, to have any balance of power, they would have to have the full support of the ordinary club player and the paying customer that goes to games.
Maybe if you could explain where you think the money would come from and the format.
So 10-12 teams?
League format=22 games per year(11 home)?
Squad size=35?
Management team=10?
Average Attendance=25,000?
Entry fee=€30?
TV/Sponsorship Revenue=?
Running costs/wage percentage?
I think I'm being extremely optimistic with the numbers there but that's where you would need to be at to be able to keep the show on the road.





caprea

Quote from: Look-Up! on February 20, 2020, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?
Ah here look, we're going way off on a tangent now. I don't know what would happen there but for the IC players looking for money, to have any balance of power, they would have to have the full support of the ordinary club player and the paying customer that goes to games.
Maybe if you could explain where you think the money would come from and the format.
So 10-12 teams?
League format=22 games per year(11 home)?
Squad size=35?
Management team=10?
Average Attendance=25,000?
Entry fee=€30?
TV/Sponsorship Revenue=?
Running costs/wage percentage?
I think I'm being extremely optimistic with the numbers there but that's where you would need to be at to be able to keep the show on the road.

Why is it a tangent? Someone said the GAA/County boards won't allow pro teams and players in their ground. I showed via the current financial realities that if the GAA and county boards can't fill their grounds they become financially endangered. Not a tangent at all.

Look-Up!

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 20, 2020, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?
Ah here look, we're going way off on a tangent now. I don't know what would happen there but for the IC players looking for money, to have any balance of power, they would have to have the full support of the ordinary club player and the paying customer that goes to games.
Maybe if you could explain where you think the money would come from and the format.
So 10-12 teams?
League format=22 games per year(11 home)?
Squad size=35?
Management team=10?
Average Attendance=25,000?
Entry fee=€30?
TV/Sponsorship Revenue=?
Running costs/wage percentage?
I think I'm being extremely optimistic with the numbers there but that's where you would need to be at to be able to keep the show on the road.

Why is it a tangent? Someone said the GAA/County boards won't allow pro teams and players in their ground. I showed via the current financial realities that if the GAA and county boards can't fill their grounds they become financially endangered. Not a tangent at all.
So a few elite players constitute for the majority of the €70m taken in by the GAA and if they walk away all fans would follow them so no more revenue for GAA? Is this what you're saying? Because you still haven't told me how the professional system would work.
Here's a bit of reality for you. Some of our best players walked away from the panel this year. But we still have a full panel. We've won a few games already and we're out again playing Saturday. And people actually pay to see us.

thewobbler

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?

It actually doesn't matter who you perceive as having the balance of power financially.

It really doesn't.

The GAA, by constitution, will not permit non-GAA games in its grounds (with some leeway for Croker). A breakaway professional organisation would not be part of the GAA.

So it would require a constitutional change with over 67% of votes, before any ground apart from Croke could be used. If this motion is rejected (which if would be, as no county board in its right mind would sanction something that could signal its own demise), it would be off the table for 3 years.

There might be bit of heartache and soul searching within the GAA in that 3 year period. But the GPA's new administrative body, without any semblance of a place to showcase its product, simply wouldn't survive it. No institution in Ireland would bankroll it to take on the GAA when the result is pre-ordained. And the international appeal simply doesn't exist for the GPA to grow wings beyond Ireland.

As far as I'm concerned, bring it on lads. This is not a battle the GPA can win.


Rossfan

When did the GPA set up a breakaway body?
Must have missed that.
Or is it just some lad on this forum musing on what a professional Gaelic football set up might look like.
In the unlikely event of it happening it will be about 2080 when the population of all Ireland might reach 10m.
It would be an official GAA set up.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Look-Up!

Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 04:39:26 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 11:38:47 AM
So suppose the players strike as they want to go pro. The county boards say go ahead but you can't use our grounds. An impasse occurs.

No repayments can be made by say cork for Pairc hi caiomh and Cork GAA goes bankrupt as it's uncome is decimated. No games in Croke Park. The GAA's financial burden escalates as the 70 million the county players bring in annually is gone.

You think it's the GAA and the county board who hold the balance of power in this impasse?

It actually doesn't matter who you perceive as having the balance of power financially.

It really doesn't.

The GAA, by constitution, will not permit non-GAA games in its grounds (with some leeway for Croker). A breakaway professional organisation would not be part of the GAA.

So it would require a constitutional change with over 67% of votes, before any ground apart from Croke could be used. If this motion is rejected (which if would be, as no county board in its right mind would sanction something that could signal its own demise), it would be off the table for 3 years.

There might be bit of heartache and soul searching within the GAA in that 3 year period. But the GPA's new administrative body, without any semblance of a place to showcase its product, simply wouldn't survive it. No institution in Ireland would bankroll it to take on the GAA when the result is pre-ordained. And the international appeal simply doesn't exist for the GPA to grow wings beyond Ireland.

As far as I'm concerned, bring it on lads. This is not a battle the GPA can win.
You are quite correct wobbler. An even if a highly advanced extra terrestrial civilization landed over night and in the morning there were 10-12 brand new stadia available for a new association free of charge, they would still have revenue issues and they would still need a talent pool to draw from.
Talent scouting local club matches would not suffice. There would still need to be a high amateur level for the best amateurs to showcase their talents. So underage IC competitions and IC senior competitions would be the most obvious. County boards would not necessarily go the way of the dodo. And county football would still have a big draw of support. So I still cannot see where the pro game would get the foot fall from.

caprea

So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

thewobbler

Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2020, 05:06:12 PM
When did the GPA set up a breakaway body?
Must have missed that.
Or is it just some lad on this forum musing on what a professional Gaelic football set up might look like.
In the unlikely event of it happening it will be about 2080 when the population of all Ireland might reach 10m.
It would be an official GAA set up.

If their demands finally arrive at semi-professionalism (or professionalism) there are only two ways for this demand to be met.

1. Constitutional change in the GAA.
2. A breakaway organisation, which would probably die anyway without constitutional change in the GAA.

Neither is happening.

The GPA has much, much less sway than it thinks.

thewobbler

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

caprea

Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

caprea

Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?

Rossfan

What us the GAA "constitution"?
An Treóir Oifigiúil?
60% required to change things in the TO.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

thewobbler

Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 20, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: caprea on February 20, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
So a body that reports 70 million revenue in the current climate where Dublin are virtually unbeatable and most counties' fans don't go to games in numbers anymore can't support a professional game? Ireland is too small?

And the GAA won't open up grounds to the pro game? They would rather go bankrupt and in ruin because they can no longer service their debts due to have a annual hole in their accounts of 60-70 million?

Yes is basically your answer to both those questions?

The answer is in the constitution.

Whether you like it or not, it was devised to protect the interests of our members. I'm sure there are umpteen times central council would have love to rail against parts of it over the past 130 years, but that simply proves its purpose.

You can make up fantasy doomsday scenarios to your heart's content. But first you have to get past the constitution.

So Yes is your answer, members will stand by while their organisation goes into ruin because it's stadiums are empty?

The constitution is designed to prevent knee jerk decisions, and designed to prevent a minority of members changing the direction of the organisation for their own needs.

That is something very, very different to "standing back and watching while their organisation goes to ruin".

By the way I don't know want planet you're from. But it seems to be a planet in which one day Paul Flynn leads a strike, and the next day the GAA, with its hundreds of thousand of members, and thousands of clubs, is burning to the ground. I don't want to visit that planet. It's far too swift, volatile and conclusive to be anything like here on Earth.