Author Topic: The Many Faces of US Politics...  (Read 564409 times)

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10020 on: August 10, 2017, 10:49:19 AM »
Stephen Colbert‏
59% of Americans think Trump's presidency has been a failure. The other 41% still donít have twitter.

To be honest, Stephen Colbert, and all the other 'celebrity' commentators, are a big reason why Trump got elected in my view. They managed, via their smart arsed approach to his candidacy, to make him appear a picked upon and sympathetic figure. Why people should place value in who entertainers endorse has never made sense to me.  They'd have been better off shutting their gobs.

I've heard Trump called many things (most with justification), but "picked upon" and "sympathetic"??

Besides, do many people REALLY place much stock in what celebs say? And it's not like the right doesn't have their own celebrities coming out with all kinds of hyperbole about Democratic and liberal figures.

But, I will grant you, the paranoid, persecution complex is strong on the right in general, especially the christian element.

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10021 on: August 10, 2017, 11:39:00 AM »
I'm saying that to those people who voted for him, it would almost be a 'f**k you' vote to the likes of Colbert, who would be as far away from the right as you can get. The likes of well paid, cosseted,  celebrities, ranting against a man who was saying things that his voters wanted to hear (regardless of their truth) was always likely to be a red rag to a bull.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a dangerous cretin, but America would have been better served if lads like Colbert pulled his horns in a bit.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10022 on: August 10, 2017, 11:53:18 AM »
I'm saying that to those people who voted for him, it would almost be a 'f**k you' vote to the likes of Colbert, who would be as far away from the right as you can get. The likes of well paid, cosseted,  celebrities, ranting against a man who was saying things that his voters wanted to hear (regardless of their truth) was always likely to be a red rag to a bull.

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a dangerous cretin, but America would have been better served if lads like Colbert pulled his horns in a bit.

They're voting for and standing behind a man who has slandered and falsely demonized his way to the top of politics. You can go back to his cynical full page ad calling for the death penalty for the wrongly convicted Central Park Five, to launching his run for the White House based on spreading and hyping made up lies about Obama's birthplace, to questioning John McCain's undisputed war heroism, to the ridiculous allegations about Ted Cruz's father to most recently about Richard Blumenthal.

If Colbert or whoever legitimately making fun of Trump is a primary, or in any way significant, factor in their support for this freakshow, then they're beyond a joke themselves and people with whom common cause cannot be found.

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10023 on: August 10, 2017, 11:57:24 AM »
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10024 on: August 10, 2017, 12:12:02 PM »
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.

Sorry, but I disagree. Making fun of politicians is part and parcel of life and has been for years and years. Anyone who is that resentful of "elites" that they would take such offense and vote purely out of spite was never going to not vote for Trump anyway. Comedy is a great way of shining a light on things. If someone wants to lie to themselves in the face of blatant evidence, whether delivered by a "smug" comedian or scientist or academic or journalist (but never right wing talking head or entertainer!), then they can't be reached anyway.

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10025 on: August 10, 2017, 12:16:59 PM »
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.


seafoid

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10026 on: August 10, 2017, 12:19:02 PM »
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10027 on: August 10, 2017, 12:20:54 PM »
Will you stop. I'm agreeing with all that. What I'm saying is that by coming across as so smug and terribly smart, they are alienating people who then end up voting for the knob. Did you not learn anything from that last election? You have to play the electorate, you have to speak to them, not preach to them. Colbert and the other lads were preaching. Trump was speaking to them. He was talking absolute unmitigated bullshit, but he knew what he was doing.
Trump listened to them got elected and is now betraying them. It is very sad.

No argument. And if they realise he betrayed them, it's going to be a very difficult time in American politics. If Trump continues the way he is going, you might see a very low turnout the next time around. OR else it will open the field to completely different, maybe independent, type of candidate. Ross Perot mark III anyone?

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10028 on: August 10, 2017, 12:35:43 PM »
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.

I just don't think it was a significant factor. Anyone who would be offended would never have voted for Trump anyway, especially with such a poor Democratic candidate opposing him. Anyone who would be offended would likely be an avid consumer of Fox News, talk radio, Breitbart etc. and would be fed a steady diet of anti-Hillary/immigrant/science/LGTBQ/"elite"/gun control invective which would be far more significant in their thinking.

America does have big problems, but so does the rest of the world. People can now embrace only that media which agrees with and reinforces their prejudices. They can tune all else out if they choose. It's apparently even affecting where Americans live now, with people increasingly choosing communities in which to live which suit their personal political outlook. Polarization is going to be the norm.

sid waddell

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10029 on: August 10, 2017, 12:39:23 PM »
I agree with that. I loved spitting image and scrap saturday etc. Satire is great. Some of this stuff was OTT though. They never left it alone. And I think one of the things is the humour also seemed to poke fun at those they thought were going to vote for him.

I think they genuinely thought he was a soft target, and that if they alienated his voters, so what? I think that materially affected the election.

If you think that voters weren't swayed towards Trump by the media and 'commentators' such as this, then a) I think you are wrong and b) If you are right, then America is truly fucked.
A satirist's job is not to shut their mouth because they think it might alienate some voters.

It's to savage people, and especially to savage idiocy.

The moaning from Trump and his supporters about the criticism and mocking of them, is, like pretty much everything else they say, deeply hypocritical.

They are attempting to shut down free speech.

It's snowflakeism taken to the extreme.

Everybody is free to be an idiot, but idiocy should be mocked mercilessly at every turn. Trump and his supporters, not least on this thread, are idiots.



« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 12:41:38 PM by sid waddell »

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10030 on: August 10, 2017, 12:45:35 PM »
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.

sid waddell

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10031 on: August 10, 2017, 12:48:27 PM »
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.
Yes

AZOffaly

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10032 on: August 10, 2017, 12:52:49 PM »
If your satire helps the person you are satirising to be elected, should you do it?

AS for the rest, I'm in violent agreement.
Yes

That's where I'd disagree I suppose. I'd prefer the dope to not get elected, rather than my satire actually helping him get elected. To be honest I don't think that was a conscious decision they made at the time. I don't think they believed he had the support, and so he was a safe, easy and oh-so fertile target.

Now that he's in, I'd be trying to find another way to convince the electorate to not let him in again. That's my biggest fear. That centre/left and centre/right people wouldn't learn from the last election, and leave the door open for another Trump type candidate or Trump himself for Term 2. Shudder.

playwiththewind1st

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10033 on: August 10, 2017, 01:44:43 PM »
Trump won't be getting a second term. He'll not see out the summer, once the Great Leader, Kim Jong-un, stops pussy footing around & deals with him, once and for all.

The White House is going up in smoke, once our N. Korean friends replicate the British attack in 1812.

Just a case of getting those nukes tweaked a bit, bit of a test near Guam, then bang.

Oraisteach

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #10034 on: August 11, 2017, 02:40:01 AM »
For the voter-suppression deniers:  The Indianapolis Star reports that after Obama won Indiana in 2008, early voting was nixed in heavily-black Marion County (Indianapolis) but was added to a nearby heavily-Republican county.