I watched the Stardust Fire documentary during the week. Tough viewing and it's incredible the families have still not got any justice. It's incredible how little national coverage their injustice gets.
Once again, the main establishment parties have very murky dealings here. I see the FG justice minister this week quashed any hope of the families getting their justice. FF's role in this is rotten to the core as there are close links to the Butterly family and FF.
So this isn't really about the families Bomber, is it ?
Same everywhere.Ordinary people don't matter as far as the political elite are concerned.The Grenfell tower victims won't get justice either from the UK Govt.
My vivid memory up here about Stardust was Ian Paisley openly expressing heartfelt sympathy to the families.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 15, 2017, 08:19:12 AM
I watched the Stardust Fire documentary during the week. Tough viewing and it's incredible the families have still not got any justice. It's incredible how little national coverage their injustice gets.
Once again, the main establishment parties have very murky dealings here. I see the FG justice minister this week quashed any hope of the families getting their justice. FF's role in this is rotten to the core as there are close links to the Butterly family and FF.
It is desperate.
The same goes for those killed in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and those who died in the Whiddy Island explosion.
You could also add the attitude to Northern nationalists over the lifetime of the State.
You would expect better.
Quote from: Minder on December 15, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
So this isn't really about the families Bomber, is it ?
It never is.
Same as those going on about Paul Quinn, Maria Cahill, Gerry McCabe and the likes
Point scoring of a pathetic nature.
Quote from: Minder on December 15, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
So this isn't really about the families Bomber, is it ?
It's about the state thwarting justice.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/priory-hall-debacle-shows-need-for-decisive-action-1.631370
Following the 1981 Stardust disaster, the 1991 Building Control Act which introduced the Building Regulations was hailed as a significant piece of reforming legislation. But while the new regulations reflected international best practice, there was a flaw: they did not provide adequately for enforcement.
The 1991 Act gave the Minister power to introduce regulations for a series of measures relating to enforcement, but these have still not been introduced 20 years later. Two factors have contributed: (1) the determination of the Department of the Environment not to permit State officials to take responsibility, and potential future liability, for building enforcement inspections, and: (2) the unwillingness of the building industry to have statutory inspections imposed, on "efficiency" grounds.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 15, 2017, 08:36:46 AM
Same everywhere.Ordinary people don't matter as far as the political elite are concerned.The Grenfell tower victims won't get justice either from the UK Govt.
My vivid memory up here about Stardust was Ian Paisley openly expressing heartfelt sympathy to the families.
This is good therapy for you and reduces your risk of self harming so carry on.
Have you any views on the c**k Robin murder?
I think the sparrow is being set up by free state establishment figures
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 09:43:21 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/priory-hall-debacle-shows-need-for-decisive-action-1.631370
Following the 1981 Stardust disaster, the 1991 Building Control Act which introduced the Building Regulations was hailed as a significant piece of reforming legislation. But while the new regulations reflected international best practice, there was a flaw: they did not provide adequately for enforcement.
The 1991 Act gave the Minister power to introduce regulations for a series of measures relating to enforcement, but these have still not been introduced 20 years later. Two factors have contributed: (1) the determination of the Department of the Environment not to permit State officials to take responsibility, and potential future liability, for building enforcement inspections, and: (2) the unwillingness of the building industry to have statutory inspections imposed, on "efficiency" grounds.
The Free State really has been an abhorrent failure when you look at the deeds of the establishment parties of the 26. The partition of the island has been an unmitigated failure on both sides of the border.
It's startling the way the masses continue to vote in two corrupt right wing parties ever since its inception.
Quote from: Minder on December 15, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
So this isn't really about the families Bomber, is it ?
+1
Quote from: Syferus on December 15, 2017, 07:33:57 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 15, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
So this isn't really about the families Bomber, is it ?
+1
Quelle surprise, the forum's resident brownshirt sees nothing wrong with a state-aided obstruction of justice for 48 innocent lives.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 15, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 09:43:21 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/priory-hall-debacle-shows-need-for-decisive-action-1.631370
Following the 1981 Stardust disaster, the 1991 Building Control Act which introduced the Building Regulations was hailed as a significant piece of reforming legislation. But while the new regulations reflected international best practice, there was a flaw: they did not provide adequately for enforcement.
The 1991 Act gave the Minister power to introduce regulations for a series of measures relating to enforcement, but these have still not been introduced 20 years later. Two factors have contributed: (1) the determination of the Department of the Environment not to permit State officials to take responsibility, and potential future liability, for building enforcement inspections, and: (2) the unwillingness of the building industry to have statutory inspections imposed, on "efficiency" grounds.
The Free State really has been an abhorrent failure when you look at the deeds of the establishment parties of the 26. The partition of the island has been an unmitigated failure on both sides of the border.
It's startling the way the masses continue to vote in two corrupt right wing parties ever since its inception.
What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2017, 09:32:05 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 15, 2017, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2017, 09:43:21 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/priory-hall-debacle-shows-need-for-decisive-action-1.631370
Following the 1981 Stardust disaster, the 1991 Building Control Act which introduced the Building Regulations was hailed as a significant piece of reforming legislation. But while the new regulations reflected international best practice, there was a flaw: they did not provide adequately for enforcement.
The 1991 Act gave the Minister power to introduce regulations for a series of measures relating to enforcement, but these have still not been introduced 20 years later. Two factors have contributed: (1) the determination of the Department of the Environment not to permit State officials to take responsibility, and potential future liability, for building enforcement inspections, and: (2) the unwillingness of the building industry to have statutory inspections imposed, on "efficiency" grounds.
The Free State really has been an abhorrent failure when you look at the deeds of the establishment parties of the 26. The partition of the island has been an unmitigated failure on both sides of the border.
It's startling the way the masses continue to vote in two corrupt right wing parties ever since its inception.
What a pity they wouldn't listen to your great mind and vote Provo SF.
Then we'd all be in a corruption free honourable zone where no Politician would tell a lie or own Holiday homes etc etc.
Also could you point out where the "State is obstruciting Justice" in the Stardust case.
By not opening up a new inquiry. We've found out in recent weeks how compromised the department of justice is down south. The state have shown zero interest in getting justice for the Stardust families, the fact that the club owner were wealthy donors to FF is just a coincidence though?
Hang on - wasn't the judge in the latest look at the facts not Pat McCartan - a former Workers Party TD?
He found no new evidence to open a new enquiry. In fact he tore strips off the report given to him basically calling it an amateur load of nonsense
Has he an agenda? Would he now be part of the Establishment cover-up, if there is one?
I have great sympathy for the families but where are they going with this? Do they even have the celebrity spokespeople now like Christy Moore?
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on December 16, 2017, 09:29:18 AM
Hang on - wasn't the judge in the latest look at the facts not Pat McCartan - a former Workers Party TD?
He found no new evidence to open a new enquiry. In fact he tore strips off the report given to him basically calling it an amateur load of nonsense
Has he an agenda? Would he now be part of the Establishment cover-up, if there is one?
I have great sympathy for the families but where are they going with this? Do they even have the celebrity spokespeople now like Christy Moore?
Eoghan Harris was a former Workers Party members. I certainty think the judge has an agenda. I would question the integrity of most high court judges in the country given how we've seen lately the level of political influence involved. Do you think they should just drop it and allow the state to wipe their hands clean of the murky dirt on their hands. Best of luck to them.
It seems a sizable cohort of free staters are happy to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Perhaps Bomber - I don't know any Free Staters though as most are dead.
However, when you do climb off the moral high horse, perhaps you can let me know what the families want from this.
Perhaps it's the 'truth' and fair enough. I'm all on for that.
But while on the horse consider the questions most of us so-called Free Staters would have for the Republican movement. if it's truth that's wanted let's all have some.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on December 16, 2017, 09:42:04 AM
Perhaps Bomber - I don't know any Free Staters though as most are dead.
However, when you do climb off the moral high horse, perhaps you can let me know what the families want from this.
Perhaps it's the 'truth' and fair enough. I'm all on for that.
But while on the horse consider the questions most of us so-called Free Staters would have for the Republican movement. if it's truth that's wanted let's all have some.
What do the families want from this?
Do you have to ask? Justice. For years they have been obstructed justice, the loss of life has been further smeared by unsubstantiated verdicts of arson, nobody has ever been held accountable for the fire and in fact it would look like political and judiciary have schemed together to ever stop the truth from ever emerging.
Would you have had the same outlook for members of the Hillsborough families of Bloody Sunday families in their quests for justice? The state are not interested in getting justice for the families of the Dublin/Monaghan, Stardust bombings. They look to have been heavily involved in obstructing justice in the murder of Fr Niall Molloy and the disappearance of Mary Boyle.
This seems to met with general indifference by the Free State public and media, yet they will happily give a platform to one side of the victims from a war that happened primarily in another state.
There was an individual charged in the Fr. Molloy case.
Found "not guilty" .
As far as I recall his wife had made a Statement but when she went in the witness box couldn't remember anything.
Maybe Bomber if you unwashed your brain from "SF good everyone else bad" and stopped the stupid "free state" crap someone here might take you serious.
We hear unsubstantiated allegations about the poor Mary Boyle case and the Stardust tragedy.
You've decided in your superior wisdom that they are facts.
A bit like the British Police in the Birmingham 6, Guildford and Maguire cases.
And I didn't even mention "Steak knife"
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 11:13:43 AM
There was an individual charged in the Fr. Molloy case.
Found "not guilty" .
As far as I recall his wife had made a Statement but when she went in the witness box couldn't remember anything.
Maybe Bomber if you unwashed your brain from "SF good everyone else bad" and stopped the stupid "free state" crap someone here might take you serious.
We hear unsubstantiated allegations about the poor Mary Boyle case and the Stardust tragedy.
You've decided in your superior wisdom that they are facts.
A bit like the British Police in the Birmingham 6, Guildford and Maguire cases.
And I didn't even mention "Steak knife"
He was found not guilty. A close family friend of these accused was the judge. A FF TD attended the event that night.
Didn't FF recently throw a conniption when legislation was changed recently whereby appointments of judges will now be done by an external, independent panel?
I wonder why they were so opposed?
You seem to not to want to take on board all these happy coincidences? Why is that?
Bomber's topic is corruption in the South. He is on the ball but he has very little data. Stardust is a long time ago. Kids in care have died far more recently.
The state needs a reboot.
The Stardust Relatives provided a report for Judge McCartan to examine recently. Allegedly containing new "evidence" McCartan who was a Workers Party T.D. for that area of Dublin, who would be very familiar with the Stardust tragedy and certainly wouldnt be an establishment hack
found absolutely nothing in the report to justify a new tribunal. The fact that the report was something a Transition Year student would staple together was of no help.
Is there any pure State anywhere to take poor Bomber in as both State and Statelet in Ireland are much too corrupt for him.
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 11:31:28 AM
Bomber's topic is corruption in the South. He is on the ball but he has very little data. Stardust is a long time ago. Kids in care have died far more recently.
The state needs a reboot.
Collectivism for all!
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 12:22:36 PM
Is there any pure State anywhere to take poor Bomber in as both State and Statelet in Ireland are much too corrupt for him.
I fielded a few questions your way. Any comment?
You should have sent them to FF HQ.
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2017, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2017, 11:31:28 AM
Bomber's topic is corruption in the South. He is on the ball but he has very little data. Stardust is a long time ago. Kids in care have died far more recently.
The state needs a reboot.
Collectivism for all!
Nah. Accountability
Nobody took responsibility for the crash . Nobody gives a shit about public money
Shane Ross in 2010 questioning Alan Dukes about the Anglo Board.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RbE4ZHIzvTY#
• 111125Sir, – I couldn't help but be amused while looking at the CV of Kevin Cardiff to note that while assistant secretary (banking, finance, and international division) at the Department of Finance between 2000 and 2005 one of his achievments was "Managing a major programme of financial sector legislation". – Yours, etc,
RUARY MARTIN,
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 08:35:08 PM
You should have sent them to FF HQ.
I think its fairly clear to see which way your bread is buttered.
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
I've proven my own theory, free stater like to turn a blind eye to the murky dealings of the establishment parties they vote in. Who do you vote for?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 17, 2017, 08:34:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
I've proven my own theory, free stater like to turn a blind eye to the murky dealings of the establishment parties they vote in. Who do you vote for?
Will you be coming round with a baseball bat if I choose not to respond to your interrogation? :P
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 17, 2017, 08:34:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
I've proven my own theory, free stater like to turn a blind eye to the murky dealings of the establishment parties they vote in. Who do you vote for?
Will you be coming round with a baseball bat if I choose not to respond to your interrogation? :P
I think your refusal to display transparency on who you vote for adds clarity to your defence/indifference of the establishment parties and their murky dealings.
I just find it odd that there are posters who here who are not outraged at these incidents, the outrage from the masses here can be very loud when republicans committed violent acts during their conflict with the British government.
I suppose you deserve credit for engaging directly, which is more than your fellow cowardly countyman can claim.
The Stardust families have been searching for answers and accountability for 36 years, the state has consistently obstructed their search for justice and the media/public have displayed indifference to it, just like they've done with Mary Boyle, Fr Niall Molloy, Grace, Dublin/Monaghan bombings etc etc.
Over the course of this thread, we've had posters look to avoid commenting on the case, saying the families should drop it, dismissing the claims out of hand, upholding the credibility of the department of justice (yes, really). I haven't seen any, bar Seafoid, speak with any degree of compassion or empathy with the victims of the Stardust fire and how the State have actively tried to obstruct justice.
We've recently seen how far the political establishment have gone with trying to discredit a Garda whistleblower - top brass Gardai, ministers for Justice, journalists, child welfare state bodies all compromised in a hideous smear campaign and you guys are still going around like a bunch of ostriches?
At the time of the Stardust I was living in Coolock at the time, I know some of the families who lost loved ones and who had to bring home people so changed by the fire, both physically and mentally, that they may as well have been different people altogether. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is a bit sickening to see "grown ups" on here trying to score political points on each other about an incident which is possibly one of the worst the Irish State will ever see, instead of actually debating the incident itself, the causes, the damage, the ramifications since then. I have seen first hand the scars some people were left with, maybe if the clowns on here saw them they might stop acting like children
Quote from: Tyrdub on December 18, 2017, 09:02:06 AM
At the time of the Stardust I was living in Coolock at the time, I know some of the families who lost loved ones and who had to bring home people so changed by the fire, both physically and mentally, that they may as well have been different people altogether. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is a bit sickening to see "grown ups" on here trying to score political points on each other about an incident which is possibly one of the worst the Irish State will ever see, instead of actually debating the incident itself, the causes, the damage, the ramifications since then. I have seen first hand the scars some people were left with, maybe if the clowns on here saw them they might stop acting like children
Just finished watching the Charlie Bird documentary about it, apart from the obvious lives lost, the cost to those left behind was huge. It makes for tough watching
The original verdict of arson seems like it was a complete stitch up, designed to get compensation for the owners. It must really stick in the craw of the relatives that "Butterly business park" is now located there. At least that verdict has since been quashed and changed to unknown cause
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2017, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics.
Interesting.
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2017, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics.
Interesting.
I'm afraid you've managed to find something that doesn't help your case at all.
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2017, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics.
Interesting.
I'm afraid you've managed to find something that doesn't help your case at all.
Hypocrite.
Quote from: Syferus on January 13, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2018, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 17, 2017, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2017, 08:03:42 PM
Yer a great buck for jumping to conclusions.
You have a rant about FF and connections and then ask me to answer your theory.
When I don't play your game you jump to another conclusion.
It's disgusting to use something like the Stardust tragedy as a flimsy excuse to play party politics.
Interesting.
I'm afraid you've managed to find something that doesn't help your case at all.
I don't have a case but I find it interesting what you think can and cannot be used for political point scoring
Peter Casey claims the Stardust families asked him to work for them
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1028/1007202-politics/
They want the case reopened and they want the cause of the fire to be defined.
You can feel the contempt the judge had for the families by reading his report on the third review
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2017/11/mccartan-report-into-stardust-fire.pdf
A new inquest into the deaths of 48 people killed in the fire in the Stardust nightclub, in Artane, north Dublin in 1981 has begun.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/why-were-our-children-brought-into-a-fire-trap-stardust-families-seek-answers-1.4483097Each of the families who spoke to The Irish Times describe their gratitude for the tenacity of Antoinette Keegan and her mother, Christine (85), who died last year.
They, supported by Maurice Frazer and Gertrude Barrett who lost her son Michael (17), kept the tragedy in the public consciousness.
"There were times when I did turn around and say, 'Ma we are banging our head off a brick wall. We need to forget about this'", says Antoinette. "She'd say, 'No. They were our beautiful daughters, they were ours and they were taken. I will not be told to forget about this'. And of course then, I promised to stand by her 110 per cent.
"I am glad now she had the push that she gave me that drive . . . If it had not been for my ma there would be no inquests."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/13/pat-gilroy-i-couldnt-do-a-managers-job-now-everything-has-changed-since-2011/
Pat Gilroy looked around the room and apologised that things were a small bit rushed. Alongside him were James McCarthy, Evan Comerford and Paddy Small, northsiders who weren't even born when the Valentine's Night fire in an Artane nightclub claimed 48 lives in February 1982. Sitting in front of them, the families cradled portraits of their lost people, framed and frozen in time.
"This is very important to us," Gilroy told the families. "I can't even begin to understand the upset that you have for this length of time. This was a horrendous thing to happen and it affected everyone from the northeast part of Dublin.
"I was 10 years old, living in Raheny. My first cousin was in the fire and got badly injured. My mother fostered a girl and after she got married, her husband's brother died in the fire. It was the worst thing that happened in our lives."
Gilroy spoke for a while without notes, about justice and loss and all the wrongs of all the years. Holding the room with humanity. The reason they invited the families was to present them with a specially-designed training top. The Dubs wanted to put something on the jersey for the year but a new GAA rule precludes that type of thing now.
So this was what they came up with – training tops with the Stardust 48 logo on them, produced for the families alone. They'll never be for sale. They'll never be for anyone else. They're nothing much and they're everything at the same time. A reminder to the families as they head into months of inquests that the Dublin football team has their backs.
Quote from: seafoid on May 13, 2023, 12:02:21 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/13/pat-gilroy-i-couldnt-do-a-managers-job-now-everything-has-changed-since-2011/
Pat Gilroy looked around the room and apologised that things were a small bit rushed. Alongside him were James McCarthy, Evan Comerford and Paddy Small, northsiders who weren't even born when the Valentine's Night fire in an Artane nightclub claimed 48 lives in February 1982. Sitting in front of them, the families cradled portraits of their lost people, framed and frozen in time.
"This is very important to us," Gilroy told the families. "I can't even begin to understand the upset that you have for this length of time. This was a horrendous thing to happen and it affected everyone from the northeast part of Dublin.
"I was 10 years old, living in Raheny. My first cousin was in the fire and got badly injured. My mother fostered a girl and after she got married, her husband's brother died in the fire. It was the worst thing that happened in our lives."
Gilroy spoke for a while without notes, about justice and loss and all the wrongs of all the years. Holding the room with humanity. The reason they invited the families was to present them with a specially-designed training top. The Dubs wanted to put something on the jersey for the year but a new GAA rule precludes that type of thing now.
So this was what they came up with – training tops with the Stardust 48 logo on them, produced for the families alone. They'll never be for sale. They'll never be for anyone else. They're nothing much and they're everything at the same time. A reminder to the families as they head into months of inquests that the Dublin football team has their backs.
A great touch by Dublinn GAA.
So very sad they still have to fight for this.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/06/14/draughtsman-who-drew-up-stardust-renovation-plans-had-not-read-fire-standards-inquests-hear/
Draughtsman who drew up Stardust renovation plans had not read fire standards, inquests hear
Harold Gardner, now dead, gave evidence in 1981 that 'fire department knew' what was being recommended
Expand
The aftermath of the Stardust fire in Artane, photographed in 1981. Photograph: Tom Lawlor
Kitty Holland Social Affairs Correspondent
Wed Jun 14 2023 - 16:18
The draughtsman who drew up plans for the Stardust nightclub in north Dublin, where 48 young people died in a fire in 1981, had not read statutory fire-protection standards for buildings when the venue was being refurbished, inquests into the deaths have heard.
Fresh inquests into the deaths of the 48, aged between 16 and 27, who died in a fire at the Artane ballroom in the early hours of February 14th, 1981 are being heard in Dublin Coroner's Court, following a recommendation in 2019 by then attorney general Séamus Woulfe.
On Wednesday, testimony from Harold Gardner, a draughtsman who drew up plans for the conversion of a former food factory into an entertainment venue, was read into the record. Mr Gardner, who is dead, gave evidence at the 1981 tribunal of inquiry chaired by Mr Justice Ronan Keane.
Mr Gardner told the 1981 inquiry he had not specified seating-upholstery should be fireproof and had not checked whether carpet tiles being placed on the Stardust walls complied with fire regulations. At that inquiry it was stated carpet tiles on the walls contributed to the rapidity with which fire engulfed the venue.
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Asked in 1981 whether he recommended to Patrick Butterly, who owned the venue and who is also dead, installing a sprinkler system, Mr Garner said: "I believe I suggested it on one occasion... but he wasn't interested."
"Did you consider recommending that to Mr Butterly, that you should install hydraulic hose reels?" he was asked by counsel. "No," answered Mr Gardner.
Learn more
"Do you think in retrospect that might be a good idea?" "I don't think so."
Later he was asked: "Had you read the fire protection standards issued by the Department of Local Government in 1967?"
"I hadn't," he said. "You've never read them?" "No."
He said while he designed the Stardust's 1,460 seats he did not specify the foam to be used in their upholstery, or that the PVC covering should be "flame retardant".
"Should you not have done so?" he was asked at the 1981 tribunal. "Looking back possibly. At the time it seemed to be satisfactory," said Mr Gardner. "The fire department knew what we were recommending."
He had specified plaster be used on the walls as a fire-retardant and he was not consulted by Eamon Butterly, Stardust manager, about plans to use carpet tiles instead. When he saw them being stuck on the walls he asked Eamon Butterly if they were fire-resistant.
"I knew they should have a certain amount of flame-proofing," he told the tribunal. When asked if he understood what "surface-spread flame-rating" [a stipulation in the planning permission for the Stardust] meant, he said it meant if a tile did catch fire "it would not go all over the place". While he had known there were fire standards, he said, "I can't remember what they were."
He hadn't examined the tiles himself or interrogated what Eamon Butterly understood by "fireproof".
"I accepted him when he said they were fireproof. I did not have any reason to carry the matter any further," said Mr Gardner.
Elizabeth Marley, aged 17 at the time of the disaster, told the inquests she had been a waitress in the Stardust. She was collecting plates at about 1.35am when she "got the smell of smoke" as she passed a screened-off area known as the west alcove.
She told her mother, who managed the kitchen, and they went into the ballroom where they saw flames on a seat towards the back of the west alcove, through a gap in the blinds.
Edward McNamee, aged 16 at the time, worked as a lounge boy and glass-washer. He told the inquests the bar closed at 1.30am and he went to use the toilet. On his way back to the bar "a bloke" ran past looking for a fire-extinguisher.
One of the blinds over the west alcove went up, he said. "I saw the back of a chair on fire. The carpet under the chair was on fire as well. It spread towards the wall at the back which was also carpeted and that started to go on fire," he said.