Brexit.

[haranguerer]

My theory. Boris has no majority anymore and wants an election, preferably with Brexit sorted. DUP now no use to him. Surely the sensible thing is go for NI only backstop put that through parliament then when he's done that and can leave with a deal by 31 October, go for election

NI only backstop, but with a timelimit, say 5 years, is the obvious answer that everyone would eventually sign up to. (Even DUP could claim that as a win if they get a timelimit imposed). The 5 years (extendable if all sides agree) would give opportunity to do a new trade deal between EU and UK, such that no border would be required on our island.

There can't be a time limit on the backstop. It ceases to perform its (very necessary) purpose if there is. 'Even DUP....' nothing - they'd rip your hand off for it! And are on record as saying so.

Of course there can be a timelimit.

Insisting on a timelimit for the backstop means there ends up being no backstop at all (i.e. No Deal).

5 years gives time to move away from political nonsense and deal with social and commercial interests where nobody actually wants a border so a proper deal can be done.

The border issue and the necessity for the backstop arises because there is no solution as yet as to how a seamless border can be maintained. And until such time as it can, the backstop must remain in place, or a deal struck between the UK and EU such that there is no regulatory difference, and hence a seamless border. If you time limit it, it is utterly worthless, and serves no purpose whatever - the UK can just let the clock run down and do what they want. You say no-one wants a border - that may sound true when the tories say it, and they may even mean it, but they want a lot of things a lot less, including retaining current arrangements with the EU. A hard border here is of little consequence to them, or the DUP, and they'd cerrtainly have no issue letting any backstop run out without any better arrangements in place before pursuing their brexit utopia free of the last of the EU shackles

[trailer]

My theory. Boris has no majority anymore and wants an election, preferably with Brexit sorted. DUP now no use to him. Surely the sensible thing is go for NI only backstop put that through parliament then when he's done that and can leave with a deal by 31 October, go for election

NI only backstop, but with a timelimit, say 5 years, is the obvious answer that everyone would eventually sign up to. (Even DUP could claim that as a win if they get a timelimit imposed). The 5 years (extendable if all sides agree) would give opportunity to do a new trade deal between EU and UK, such that no border would be required on our island.

There can't be a time limit on the backstop. It ceases to perform its (very necessary) purpose if there is. 'Even DUP....' nothing - they'd rip your hand off for it! And are on record as saying so.

Of course there can be a timelimit.

Insisting on a timelimit for the backstop means there ends up being no backstop at all (i.e. No Deal).

5 years gives time to move away from political nonsense and deal with social and commercial interests where nobody actually wants a border so a proper deal can be done.

The border issue and the necessity for the backstop arises because there is no solution as yet as to how a seamless border can be maintained. And until such time as it can, the backstop must remain in place, or a deal struck between the UK and EU such that there is no regulatory difference, and hence a seamless border. If you time limit it, it is utterly worthless, and serves no purpose whatever - the UK can just let the clock run down and do what they want. You say no-one wants a border - that may sound true when the tories say it, and they may even mean it, but they want a lot of things a lot less, including retaining current arrangements with the EU. A hard border here is of little consequence to them, or the DUP, and they'd cerrtainly have no issue letting any backstop run out without any better arrangements in place before pursuing their brexit utopia free of the last of the EU shackles

Th etories cannot be trusted. They've stopped every North / South institution since they come to power. They cannot be trusted and anyone who advocates a time limited backstop is extremely naive.

[magpie seanie]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-how-mike-pence-shat-on-the-new-carpet-in-ireland-s-spare-room-1.4006979

Pence not endearing himself on his visit to Ireland..

It's an excellent piece. I was raging yesterday when I heard what he said. And of course our doofus Taoiseach stood around smiling as that's pretty much all he's fit for.

[Hound]

My theory. Boris has no majority anymore and wants an election, preferably with Brexit sorted. DUP now no use to him. Surely the sensible thing is go for NI only backstop put that through parliament then when he's done that and can leave with a deal by 31 October, go for election

NI only backstop, but with a timelimit, say 5 years, is the obvious answer that everyone would eventually sign up to. (Even DUP could claim that as a win if they get a timelimit imposed). The 5 years (extendable if all sides agree) would give opportunity to do a new trade deal between EU and UK, such that no border would be required on our island.

There can't be a time limit on the backstop. It ceases to perform its (very necessary) purpose if there is. 'Even DUP....' nothing - they'd rip your hand off for it! And are on record as saying so.

Of course there can be a timelimit.

Insisting on a timelimit for the backstop means there ends up being no backstop at all (i.e. No Deal).

5 years gives time to move away from political nonsense and deal with social and commercial interests where nobody actually wants a border so a proper deal can be done.

The border issue and the necessity for the backstop arises because there is no solution as yet as to how a seamless border can be maintained. And until such time as it can, the backstop must remain in place, or a deal struck between the UK and EU such that there is no regulatory difference, and hence a seamless border. If you time limit it, it is utterly worthless, and serves no purpose whatever - the UK can just let the clock run down and do what they want. You say no-one wants a border - that may sound true when the tories say it, and they may even mean it, but they want a lot of things a lot less, including retaining current arrangements with the EU. A hard border here is of little consequence to them, or the DUP, and they'd cerrtainly have no issue letting any backstop run out without any better arrangements in place before pursuing their brexit utopia free of the last of the EU shackles

You do understand No Deal = No Backstop ?

[haranguerer]

You do understand a Time limited backstop = no backstop?

[trailer]

My theory. Boris has no majority anymore and wants an election, preferably with Brexit sorted. DUP now no use to him. Surely the sensible thing is go for NI only backstop put that through parliament then when he's done that and can leave with a deal by 31 October, go for election

NI only backstop, but with a timelimit, say 5 years, is the obvious answer that everyone would eventually sign up to. (Even DUP could claim that as a win if they get a timelimit imposed). The 5 years (extendable if all sides agree) would give opportunity to do a new trade deal between EU and UK, such that no border would be required on our island.

There can't be a time limit on the backstop. It ceases to perform its (very necessary) purpose if there is. 'Even DUP....' nothing - they'd rip your hand off for it! And are on record as saying so.

Of course there can be a timelimit.

Insisting on a timelimit for the backstop means there ends up being no backstop at all (i.e. No Deal).

5 years gives time to move away from political nonsense and deal with social and commercial interests where nobody actually wants a border so a proper deal can be done.

The border issue and the necessity for the backstop arises because there is no solution as yet as to how a seamless border can be maintained. And until such time as it can, the backstop must remain in place, or a deal struck between the UK and EU such that there is no regulatory difference, and hence a seamless border. If you time limit it, it is utterly worthless, and serves no purpose whatever - the UK can just let the clock run down and do what they want. You say no-one wants a border - that may sound true when the tories say it, and they may even mean it, but they want a lot of things a lot less, including retaining current arrangements with the EU. A hard border here is of little consequence to them, or the DUP, and they'd cerrtainly have no issue letting any backstop run out without any better arrangements in place before pursuing their brexit utopia free of the last of the EU shackles

You do understand No Deal = No Backstop ?

Yeah but better to have No deal for a short time than a bad deal forever.
No Deal is just No deal for now. The Brits will have to come back to the negotiating table and payment of the divorce bill and backstop will be the starting points for any future deal. So like unionism, with every deal they reject, they eventually return to the table weaker than when they left it.

[Hound]

You do understand a Time limited backstop = no backstop?

That's amazing 

A no deal means no backstop right now.

A 5 year NI only backstop means a backstop for 5 years, with option to extend. That gives the time to do a proper deal, where politics is pushed to the side and social and commercial interests are to the fore.

[Eamonnca1]

You do understand a Time limited backstop = no backstop?

That's amazing 

A no deal means no backstop right now.

A 5 year NI only backstop means a backstop for 5 years, with option to extend. That gives the time to do a proper deal, where politics is pushed to the side and social and commercial interests are to the fore.

A 5-year backstop means a backstop for 5 years followed by a hard border.

[omaghjoe]

Breaking news****Boris won a vote in he Commons***

......Except it didnt matter

Was this a major miscalculation by Downing St? I really think they were sure that Corbyn would bite their hand off for an election. Looks like they are using up all their subs rather quickly. Gotta wonder what their next move is? seems like yer man Cummings is a wee bit too smart for is own good

Fair play to Corbyn he resisted and appears to be getting somewhere at last with this cross party cooperation

[tyrone08]

Breaking news****Boris won a vote in he Commons***

......Except it didnt matter

Was this a major miscalculation by Downing St? I really think they were sure that Corbyn would bite their hand off for an election. Looks like they are using up all their subs rather quickly. Gotta wonder what their next move is? seems like yer man Cummings is a wee bit too smart for is own good

Fair play to Corbyn he resisted and appears to be getting somewhere at last with this cross party cooperation

I cant figure out what is the end goal for any PM. If the  no deal bill is passed it means the uk cant leave without a deal so only option is for the already rejected eu offer. If Corbyn gets elected nothing changes. So it's set that the uk has go leave the eu with a bad deal?

[thewobbler]

If we, the world, can learn one thing from Brexit is that 52% of the vote is not actually enough to force through a constitutional change.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I cant figure out what is the end goal for any PM. If the  no deal bill is passed it means the uk cant leave without a deal so only option is for the already rejected eu offer. If Corbyn gets elected nothing changes. So it's set that the uk has go leave the eu with a bad deal?

The current deal (Theresa's deal) is the only logical end point for the EU given all their existing treaties and Theresa's limitations on the scope of the negotiations due to her "red-lines".

However, if Jeremy Corbyn were to get in and restart the whole negotiation - removing Theresa's "red-lines" at the very start* - then there is much more freedom (and no doubt, willingness) for the EU to negotiate a more favourable outcome for both sides.

*which he has often talked about. He wants to go back to the days of the EC and the common market.

[tyrone08]

I cant figure out what is the end goal for any PM. If the  no deal bill is passed it means the uk cant leave without a deal so only option is for the already rejected eu offer. If Corbyn gets elected nothing changes. So it's set that the uk has go leave the eu with a bad deal?

The current deal (Theresa's deal) is the only logical end point for the EU given all their existing treaties and Theresa's limitations on the scope of the negotiations due to her "red-lines".

However, if Jeremy Corbyn were to get in and restart the whole negotiation - removing Theresa's "red-lines" at the very start* - then there is much more freedom (and no doubt, willingness) for the EU to negotiate a more favourable outcome for both sides.

*which he has often talked about. He wants to go back to the days of the EC and the common market.

That could make sense actually but after years of failed or lack of negotiations not sure how willing the eu may be. If a ge is called I dont think corbyn would win which is why he wants the no deal bill passed first as he knows his party wudnt win a ge

[Minder]

I cant figure out what is the end goal for any PM. If the  no deal bill is passed it means the uk cant leave without a deal so only option is for the already rejected eu offer. If Corbyn gets elected nothing changes. So it's set that the uk has go leave the eu with a bad deal?

The current deal (Theresa's deal) is the only logical end point for the EU given all their existing treaties and Theresa's limitations on the scope of the negotiations due to her "red-lines".

However, if Jeremy Corbyn were to get in and restart the whole negotiation - removing Theresa's "red-lines" at the very start* - then there is much more freedom (and no doubt, willingness) for the EU to negotiate a more favourable outcome for both sides.

*which he has often talked about. He wants to go back to the days of the EC and the common market.

That could make sense actually but after years of failed or lack of negotiations not sure how willing the eu may be. If a ge is called I dont think corbyn would win which is why he wants the no deal bill passed first as he knows his party wudnt win a ge

Saw something earlier that according to Labours internal polling they are pretty sure they wouldnt win a GE at the minute

[haranguerer]

You do understand a Time limited backstop = no backstop?

That's amazing 

A no deal means no backstop right now.

A 5 year NI only backstop means a backstop for 5 years, with option to extend. That gives the time to do a proper deal, where politics is pushed to the side and social and commercial interests are to the fore.

This is pointless. Read up on why a time limited back stop isn't an option. Its fact, not opinion. Read up on Brexit when you're at it.