China Coronavirus

[theskull1]

Backbench MP Esther McVey asking Government for an investigation last week in Westminster and got swatted away with a nothing answer
https://youtu.be/Ll8GxuqmApQ

The BBC weren't interested enough to report on the exchange.

I can only conclude, unless provided with evidence that for some reason they don't want to go there. Strange to my eyes but then we should all know how governments and state media have worked in the past to control narratives.

[armaghniac]

Sorry for being pedantic but i don't think there are any vaccines currently in use that contain an attenuated form of the Covid 19 virus. I think Codagenix is in clinical trials which is an attenuated Vaccine like the oral Polio vaccine.

Fair enough. Nevertheless, all vaccines contain elements present in the Covid virus, otherwise the immune system could not be trained to recognise it.

I think the point really is that there doesn't seem to be any real interest and certainly no urgency by National Health authorities to demonstrate that they have commissioned any studies into these excess deaths.

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

[grounded]

Sorry for being pedantic but i don't think there are any vaccines currently in use that contain an attenuated form of the Covid 19 virus. I think Codagenix is in clinical trials which is an attenuated Vaccine like the oral Polio vaccine.

Fair enough. Nevertheless, all vaccines contain elements present in the Covid virus, otherwise the immune system could not be trained to recognise it.

I think the point really is that there doesn't seem to be any real interest and certainly no urgency by National Health authorities to demonstrate that they have commissioned any studies into these excess deaths.

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/

[armaghniac]

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/

These governments closer to home may well be hiding from blame for lack of ambulances etc. But if the vaccine has any effect then some country will identify this.

[lenny]

I'm certainly not dismissing anything ITG. A reasonable question to consider as part of any detailed investigation AFAIC.

Surely everyone by now is seeing and reflecting on the gaslighting of the excess deaths question by both governments and MSM in cahoots around the world? They should be as interested in getting to the bottom of this as anyone you would have thought?

Are opposition parties in on these big secrets as well? Because there are elections happening all around the world and governments change. Also the MSM don't all support the same parties although in the UK almost all MSM are very conservative and right wing. So how does uniformity of opinion happen on this kind of topic throughout MSM.

[imtommygunn]

I discussed this early on in the pandemic with someone. If covid is the scam that *some* people think it is / was then whoever project managed the whole scam to the level it is/was must be the best project manager in the history of the entire world.

I would tend to think along the same lines about the vaccine tbh in reference to your uniformity point.

Don't get me wrong I think there's a fair bit of corruption around the likes of Sunak(and that is only in the UK) and his vested interests etc and there has been plenty go on but a cover up of mass proportions around excess deaths is not something I think is humanly possible to pull off.

[bennydorano]

Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I read the article, I have read unherd articles before and it wasn't far off how shite I thought they were too.

I think it could be summaried by the excess deaths are believed to be cause by x y z in countries 1, 2 and 3. We don't agree with x y z. Maybe  a b c are the causes, we have no evidence of a b c but no evidence it isn't a b c either but we have dismissed x y z so that means it must be a b c. Investigate!!!

there was little to no mention of the long term effects of covid in the article, there was mention as the outcome for the health system If there was no lockdown and how many might have died when hospitals were overran with patients while understaffed due to covid.

there are articles on BBC about this, so it is reported but a common theme is to point to no MSM coverage... if there is too much is scaremongering and too little they are in league with govt. and hiding it...

I do believe lockdown is probably a contributing factor to some deaths (moreso from a delayed treatment and now overburden healthcare system perspective), heat waves, cold snaps, cost of living, poor healthcare systems, influenza, strep, rsv etc. covid, long covid and vaccines  are likely to have caused a few too, I don't think that is in dispute.

I disagree with the lack of evidence is evidence argument.

[grounded]

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/

These governments closer to home may well be hiding from blame for lack of ambulances etc. But if the vaccine has any effect then some country will identify this.

I think that is a fair point as regards governments, particularly the UK government. They have a multitude of problems including cost of living, health, Economy, Ukraine War most of their own making through the folly of Brexit. 
        At this stage they are still blaming Covid 19 infections, the lockdown and delayed diagnosis etc. A study into the causes of excess deaths is likely to be very damaging to the Tories. A conservative health Secretary announcing an enquiry into the reasons for excess deaths figures is like a turkey voting for Christmas.
       The truth is, there aren't enough excess deaths over a long enough period yet,  to really put pressure on the government to commission any studies into it.
        and yes I think in time( i think it will be a very long time given the complexity of any studies and the thorny issue of who will fund this research) that any links between the Covid 19 vaccination programme and adverse effects will come to light.

[Seamus]

The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

Do you admire Dr Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci?

[Gmac]

Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.

I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?

[Milltown Row2]

Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.

I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?

If we waited on the trials more people could have died?

[bennydorano]

Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.

I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?

If we waited on the trials more people could have died?

Yes, abundantly clear, but the dividing line in the for & against will be very familiar. No one had the benefit of hindsight.

[imtommygunn]

You can't have years of trials. Also side effects are not from a controlled set and trials are. It is way harder to deduce.

The years of trial thing the easiest non argument to make against the vaccine.

[theskull1]

That was very much part of the media/the science fear narrative at the time. "Protect granny" (which was a lie) drove it all the way down to 5 year olds. Time will tell