China Coronavirus

[armaghniac]

I'm sorry but we cannot exonerate our local politicians. We have had a review called Bengoa and Michelle O'Neill the then Health Minister promised to deliver it. The last time D'Hondt was run to decide ministries the Health was one of the last chosen and both DUP and SF wouldn't touch it. The two departments that are the most difficult to run are Infrastructure and Health. Robin Swann UUP and Nicola Mallon SDLP ended up taking them.
I do agree that the NHS is struggling but in Scotland were the SNP have at least tried to run it, it is doing better. Here no one wants the responsibility. I don't how you think we can fix it, here locally at least, without a functioning executive and a clear out of the Health Boards.

I seem to remember that 15 years ago the UU ran health and made a go of it, and Swann probably tried his best. But it isn't as if the electorate rewarded Nicola Mallon for taking Infrastructure.

[trueblue1234]

So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax

I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.

NI problems are nothing to do with Tories even though SF and others love to blame them. The reality is that Health is a devolved matter. It gets more funding in NI than anywhere else in the UK with worse outcomes. SF lock out of Stormont followed by Covid and then followed by DUP lock out has seen the service been run on a hand to mouth basis. No strategic planning, no forward thinking.
Having said all that the Health boards are run by very incapable people. People who either don't want change or cannot deliver it. We also have some of the most incapable politicians anywhere. People who are completely unemployable in everyday life put in charge of huge departments. Jim Wells for example, but there are others. People voted in because of their constitutional ideology rather than ability.
We have got the Health Service that we deserve because we have gone out and voted for it.

That's not true. The NHS is a national organisation. And it's on its knees across the UK and NI. Most sensible people would struggle to blame SF for that, tho I'm sure you'll give it a go.
A root and branch review of the NHS has to be done at a national level. It's inefficient and not fit for purpose. It can not be fixed internally. It needs an independent review (And this will cost a lot of money) by independent consultants followed by an implementation plan. The review should look at processes, infrastructure, technology, personnel, management etc.
Actually harnessing digital transformation and utilising the available technology would be a start. That's the way forward.

I'm sorry but we cannot exonerate our local politicians. We have had a review called Bengoa and Michelle O'Neill the then Health Minister promised to deliver it. The last time D'Hondt was run to decide ministries the Health was one of the last chosen and both DUP and SF wouldn't touch it. The two departments that are the most difficult to run are Infrastructure and Health. Robin Swann UUP and Nicola Mallon SDLP ended up taking them.
I do agree that the NHS is struggling but in Scotland were the SNP have at least tried to run it, it is doing better. Here no one wants the responsibility. I don't how you think we can fix it, here locally at least, without a functioning executive and a clear out of the Health Boards.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/oneill-launches-10-year-vision-health-social-care Oct 2016 - 6/7 years ago. Things have gotten worse.

I don't think anyone is exonerating the local administration. It's a shambles and at the mercy of either side throwing a hissy fit. My initial point was around the lack of funding by the tories. Not to mention the disgraceful siphoning off of money to cronies during covid.
My view is that the NHS as an organisation isn't fit for purpose as evidenced by the current clusterfuck across the UK. I don't think the major issues can be fixed locally. Certainly not to the extend of rescuing it as an organisation.

Bengoa actually pointed to improved systems across the nhs as well. That is certainly the way forward. But NI should be taking a lead here from the wider UK which has significantly more funding to spend on a review.

[grounded]

Going back to the point I made, if you want it (regardless of what the Tories did or the money is there, I doubt it) it will require us, the tax payers, to fund it, even if it was a temporary medical tax for 4 years, to generate new structure and oversee, bring in the best technology, train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever, having more availability to have medical courses here than across the water.

If we don't, and this was no doubt the Tory plan with Thatcher, it will be privatised, I'm seeing more and more people because they can't be bother with the NHS

train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever


Won't work. You might as well say newly qualified accountants must work in inland revenue for 10 years or teachers to work in the public education system for 10 years. 
       

[armaghniac]

Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

[trueblue1234]

It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp

[Armagh18]

Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

How are you going to get that off them. Sounds like you're making the job look less attractive!

Paying students at least minimum wage for working while on placement would be a start. Nurses doing full time hours and not getting a bob. Then expected to work a part time job to fund their lives, plus study and try to have some kind of social life as well? Madness.

[johnnycool]

Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

How are you going to get that off them. Sounds like you're making the job look less attractive!

Paying students at least minimum wage for working while on placement would be a start. Nurses doing full time hours and not getting a bob. Then expected to work a part time job to fund their lives, plus study and try to have some kind of social life as well? Madness.

A certain Crumlin (Antrim) based Tory party sponsor makes staff pay back "training" if they leave within a certain period of time post training....

Nurses, Junior doctors, GP's, Consultants won't leave if they're not run into the ground and a decent work/life balance can be struck, but currently they're in a death spiral where it's getting worse because they just can't cope, resign, retire or whatever and the problem is exacerbated.

The Bengoa report highlighting the structural reform needed locally also needed a huge cash injection of capital funding to be put into place along with some delicate political decisions to close some regional hospitals which the NI Assembly in it's current form is incapable to making.

Imagine the Shinners having to close Omagh or the DUP Lagan Valley...

[grounded]

Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

Same would have to apply for all courses then. Better to incentivise them to stay.

[grounded]

It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp

I think this is the best way. The most of them are coming out in massive debt. Pay part of their course fees in return for a minimum time working in the NHS. The working time wouldnt have to be continous either.
       Those first five years after qualification are key. If you can retain them they are more likely to find an area of specialisation in medicine and stay in the NHS. They will have developed roots to the area, possibly bought a property or be in long term relationship and think of settling down.
       One of the more difficult things to change is the increasing move away from the idea that being a doctor is not just a job, but also a vocation.

[Milltown Row2]

It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp

I think this is the best way. The most of them are coming out in massive debt. Pay part of their course fees in return for a minimum time working in the NHS. The working time wouldnt have to be continous either.
       Those first five years after qualification are key. If you can retain them they are more likely to find an area of specialisation in medicine and stay in the NHS. They will have developed roots to the area, possibly bought a property or be in long term relationship and think of settling down.
       One of the more difficult things to change is the increasing move away from the idea that being a doctor is not just a job, but also a vocation.

My friends daughter is a doctor, fully qualified and now in Oz, will probably come back, but in regards to the money for fees, he said after 25 years regardless of how much they borrowed it was stopped? Not sure tbh

[trailer]

"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

[armaghniac]

Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

Same would have to apply for all courses then. Better to incentivise them to stay.

It could, but medical training is a multiple of the cost of other courses and I would hazard a guess that a higher proportion of accountants, programmers etc choose to stay in Ireland. You could justify some requirement to repay those amounts beyond that spent on the average student if the person leaves.

[Milltown Row2]

"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

No the better option is train them so they can practice elsewhere and bring in oversee student's (cause they pay more) to be trained and go elsewhere as the money is better and the weather too!!

And we end up with waiting lists as we haven't the staff!!

While not trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer some sort of system needs to be adopted as what's being used now is clearly not working

[Armagh18]

"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

No the better option is train them so they can practice elsewhere and bring in oversee student's (cause they pay more) to be trained and go elsewhere as the money is better and the weather too!!

And we end up with waiting lists as we haven't the staff!!

While not trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer some sort of system needs to be adopted as what's being used now is clearly not working

Jaysus you're speaking sense whats going on lol.

Would the simplest solution not be to fecking pay them a decent wage for their service and give them good working conditions/decent working hours. 30 years ago a nurse was one of the best paid jobs about. Boys labouring on sites getting better pay and more sociable hours. No wonder staff are leaving ffs.

[Gmac]

Zero Covid jacinda resigns