China Coronavirus

[theskull1]

No one mentioned miracle cures Len 
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c

[PadraicHenryPearse]

No one mentioned miracle cures Len 
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c

McCullough is into conspiracy theory's..  joe rogan is just a podcast hosts...

what does many people on the fence mean exactly... what dogma?  how has public health been poor in the context this is a new virus that speaks very quickly and collapsed health systems in different parts of the world...

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

[theskull1]

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

[grounded]

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
Noam Chomsky

[Rossfan]

Yes indeed
Edwin Poots vs Archaeology as to how old the Earth is😆

[armaghniac]

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

We also use fear in Road Safety advertisements. No doubt some of you also think there is no harm in speeding drunk in a car with bald tyres while looking at your mobile phone. I see no reason though why your perspective should be respected.

[lenny]

No one mentioned miracle cures Len 
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c

That's the problem though, there hasn't just been dogma. Doctors have been trying lots of things since the start of the pandemic and much has been learned. There are lots of trials going on for various drugs. Pfizer seem to have a very successful anti viral drug but the UK has only ordered 250k doses. It has been shown in trials to be over 90% successful at preventing hospitalisation and it even works just as well against omicron. There are alternative opinions but things need to go through the proper trials to be accepted. Anecdotal evidence isn't enough. A good majority of people will make a good recovery so when doctors tried  things out at the start of the pandemic to treat people it wasn't certain if the person had just recovered naturally or if the treatment was helpful. At this stage the treatments are much better but some people will still struggle badly if they get sick. Vaccines are very successful at keeping people out of hospital so it's a no brainer for most sensible people.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

sorry, I should have been more accurate you have question why there has been little talk of it in msm and that "other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things"

I dont understand how you don't question the likes Dr John, you posted his YouTube on Japan miracle which was full of inaccuracies... and then there is Dr McCullough...

What panic and fear? they present facts and modelling which are estimated based on known or expected criteria..but do also use behavioual science... covid is new, still alot of unknowns with new variants and it killed and hospitalised a lot of people who would otherwise be alive or healthy. Covid in itself is not fun....

the silencing/burying alternatives, a quick Google shows you why most of it is not reported as when peer reviewed it turns out to be wrong... why report on incomplete and suspect data... most of whats posted on here comes with false narratives like the unvacced are blamed, msm this msm that, people want to be locked down and are all easily debunked with Google or common sense..

  the same posters who are skeptical of vaccines that have been through clinical trials post about drugs where no clinical trials have been completed or are inconclusive etc. against covid maybe some of these drug will be proved to help with covid and if they do they will be celebrated but without approval from regulators why would they be overly reported In the media..

you are in denial if you think you are keeping an open mind you are well down the conspiracy  route in my opinion..

grounded you won't like what Noah had to say about the unvaxxed..

[grounded]

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

sorry, I should have been more accurate you have question why there has been little talk of it in msm and that "other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things"

I dont understand how you don't question the likes Dr John, you posted his YouTube on Japan miracle which was full of inaccuracies... and then there is Dr McCullough...

What panic and fear? they present facts and modelling which are estimated based on known or expected criteria..but do also use behavioual science... covid is new, still alot of unknowns with new variants and it killed and hospitalised a lot of people who would otherwise be alive or healthy. Covid in itself is not fun....

the silencing/burying alternatives, a quick Google shows you why most of it is not reported as when peer reviewed it turns out to be wrong... why report on incomplete and suspect data... most of whats posted on here comes with false narratives like the unvacced are blamed, msm this msm that, people want to be locked down and are all easily debunked with Google or common sense..

  the same posters who are skeptical of vaccines that have been through clinical trials post about drugs where no clinical trials have been completed or are inconclusive etc. against covid maybe some of these drug will be proved to help with covid and if they do they will be celebrated but without approval from regulators why would they be overly reported In the media..

you are in denial if you think you are keeping an open mind you are well down the conspiracy  route in my opinion..

grounded you won't like what Noah had to say about the unvaxxed..

Something biblical? 
      Fire and brimstone?

[Wildweasel74]

Talking to a guy the day had the virus last Yr, all vaccinated since except his wife, she scared of needles lol

[Milltown Row2]

I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Why don't we just lock those folk up as they contribute nothing to society and only make life a miserable time for the young and fit ones lol!!

[lenny]

I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Here's a thought, why not try to protect everyone in society by giving them an opportunity to get vaccinated.  In October Bloomberg ranked Ireland as best in the world for their handling of the pandemic. That's because the public health officials and politicians have done very well in protecting people while maintaining some kind of normality.

[Milltown Row2]

I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Why don't we just lock those folk up as they contribute nothing to society and only make life a miserable time for the young and fit ones lol!!

Way off base man. Why would you do that. If they are vaccinated they are as protected as they can be. And as we can see it didn't matter about the rest getting vaccinated it doesn't stop it spreading. Made no difference, so I ask a reasonable question for discussion.

I've no idea what your point is?!  If the vaccine hasn't worked then why vaccinate at all

[David McKeown]

I'm going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.

The impact of the vaccine on spread is not a zero sum game. Just because it doesn't stop you becoming infected doesn't mean it has made no difference. The pattern of rapid growth pre and post vaccine has confirmed that.

The idea of either only vaccinating the vulnerable or of only locking them down is scary to me. Firstly it would be largely ineffective giving the interconnected world we live in. During the lockdown I was shielding. I only went out to go to the shops. An unchecked virus running wild would still have presented a huge risk to me even with my shielding because of the number of contacts I would still have when shielding be that with other shoppers, the shop assistant or delivery drivers etc. With an unchecked virus the chances of me encountering a +ve contact would have been greatly increased. That is something that would be factored into modelling but seems to have gone unconsidered by those who advocate only locking up the vulnerable.

The second issue with only vaccinating the vulnerable is that society as a whole and health care in particular simply would not have been able to cope. Not just from the increase in patients but also from the staff shortages that would have happened as medical professionals had to take time off work to tend to themselves.

It's a similar rationale to why low risk groups are still encouraged to get vaccinated.  There are likely little benefit to them individually but the benefit to society is great.

If there are sensible alternatives out there I'm more than willing to hear them but provide imperial evidence for them. Provide experts advocating them through peer review research. Don't provide YouTube videos from non experts providing inaccurate or misinformed theories based on easily debunked 'evidence'. Otherwise stop wasting time.

[theskull1]

Sorry for your loss David

I'll be saying no more on the topic.