China Coronavirus

[Jeepers Creepers]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week’s later, they’re put down as a covid death.

Have you a reputable link for this?

I’ve heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.

Is the wording not 'died during covid-19 pandemic' or something to that effect?

[sid waddell]

Covid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.

Public Health England were reporting Covid deaths in a different way compared to the rest of the UK, and the ONS

During the summer, the UK death figure was reduced from 46k to 41k

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711

[Angelo]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

[sid waddell]

Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

Have you a reputable link for this?

I've heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.

Should be easy to provide a reputable link so

[Jeepers Creepers]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

Why wouldn't they be marked as a Covid case if they test positive?

[sid waddell]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

[Itchy]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

[Jeepers Creepers]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

I know the Den was back on but are Zig & Zag in charge of programming content now?

[Angelo]

Covid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.

You edited my initial post.

It effectively lasts 2 weeks, might be more, might be less but 2 weeks is the common timeframe given for it to be transmissable.

[Angelo]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

Why wouldn't they be marked as a Covid case if they test positive?

Because they didn't die of Covid.

If you have someone who is terminally ill in hospital and they test positive for Covid - it's not Covid that killed them.

Could you imagine if we tested for flu and attributed deaths to anyone who died with a positive test for flu - how many flu deaths we would have every winter?

[Angelo]

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.

Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.

[JoG2]

the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.

Yet there is probably no real upside.

I'm in no rush to travel abroad when this finishes. I'd be very wary of this vaccine at present and I wouldn't risk my health for the sake of a holiday until we know more about it.

I don't usually go abroad on holiday anyway so I don't care about that.

But if that was the only restriction imposed from not having the vaccine, I could live with that. But it won't be. They'll ensure that you need a vaccine to enter schools, workplaces, concerts, hospitals, doctor surgeries, sports events etc.

I honestly think this isn't about the virus anymore. There is much more going on here.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you Benny.

[tbrick18]

They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?

There'll be loads of ramifications. Only a nutter would say there wouldn't be. But believe me if the health service becomes overwhelmed all those financial and mental problems will pale into insignificance. It's not exactly about cases around takeaways it's about getting through to people that they need to stay at home. It's like closing golf courses. It probably has a 0.00000001 effect on the R number but they need to get people to stay at home.
Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown. Like I said earlier, we can argue about why that is later. For now I would encourage you to cut your interactions to the absolute bare minimum. These next two weeks will be crucial but if the number keep presenting to hospital and Nurses and other health staff are sick or isolating then it doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

Agreed.
There's two parts to this.
1) There is the number of people who die from Covid....what ever that number is (overstated or understated), it can be reduced by reducing the transmission of Covid in the short term by not interacting with other people, wearing masks and washing your hands. In the medium/long term, the Vaccine will reduce the impact of Covid both in the number of deaths and the number of people becoming seriously ill.
2) There is the number of people who require hospital treatment due to Covid. Hospitals are currently at breaking point. The knock on effect is that other services within the NHS are suffering as a result. Mostly due to staffing. Staff get re-allocated on a highest need basis to ICUs and so the NHS has to take measure to ensure they have enough staff to man those beds. Decreasing the number of Covid cases, decreases demand on all NHS services...not just the ICUs. Short term resolution is to break the chains of transmission by...not interacting with other people, wearing masksn and washing your hands. And again the Vaccine is the medium/long term solution.

No-one wants lock down. No-one wants the patient waiting for heart surgery to have the operation delayed. No-one wants their Granny to die from Covid or their sister from the flu. To listen to some on here, you would think that this is an either/or choice in terms of who to treat. My understanding of how the NHS works, is that each patient is triaged and the those of highest priority at that point in time get treated first.
At the moment, with the number of covid cases in hospital statistically the highest priority will be covid patients.

The only way to reduce pressure on the NHS and in doing so reduce the number of deaths regardless of what those numbers are and regardless of what the cause is, is to reduce the spread of Covid.

As for those who don't trust the Vaccine, well they have been approved by the same bodies who approve all other Vaccines. Vaccines which include the Flu Vaccine, Measles Vaccine, Polio Vaccine etc. If you don't trust the professionals who have the knowledge and access to the scientific data used to assess the Covid Vaccine, then why would you trust any of the other Vaccines? It's a nonsense to say the Vaccine isn't safe or that it hasn't been properly approved or tested with an in-depth comparison of how it was approved in relation to other approved Vaccine's currently in use. to say it isn't safe or to share opinions of not trusting could actually hinder the reduction in transmission of the virus as someone will always believe what they read on the internet.

The chains of transmission need to be broken AND the Vaccine needs to be rolled out en-masse to reduce the effects of Covid on the population. Otherwise we'll never get out of this cycle of lockdowns and surges.

[thebigfella]

https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't

[Rossfan]

Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!