China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

So the WHO estimated about a month back that 10% of the world's population had Covid.

That's a rough guess that 780m people had been infected.

At that time, worldwide Covid deaths were at about the 1m mark.

That's a mortality rate of 0.13%

We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

The WHO estimate that circa 400k people die with flu every year.

The mortality rate of flu is estimated to be around 0.1%.

We don't shut society down every winter to save people from dying from flu. Are the lockdown merchants ashamed of this or is death, consumption of the health service and long term impacts on people who catch it acceptable?

[Seaney]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

[Angelo]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

There is also this issue where deaths where there was no evidence of Covid being the primary cause of death being account for as a Covid related death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JkwDH7okM&ab_channel=OnePalProductions

[armaghniac]

We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

If 10% of people had Covid, then at any one time no more than 0.5% had it. Therefore you would expect 0.5% of people who die to have Covid if it had no effect on mortality, so by all means subtract 0.5% if you think you must. The reality of course is that in many countries people have died because of Covid without effective diagnosis, as shown by the excess deaths.

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?

[Seaney]

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?

Who mentioned care homes, care homes are like fort knox at the moment, be easier to get into the Queens bed, I am talking about hospital!

[Milltown Row2]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

[Seaney]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

There is also this issue where deaths where there was no evidence of Covid being the primary cause of death being account for as a Covid related death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JkwDH7okM&ab_channel=OnePalProductions

The 28 day lag is a joke, you could get covid today and in 4 weeks get killed by a bus - you would be a registered covid death.

[Angelo]

We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

If 10% of people had Covid, then at any one time no more than 0.5% had it. Therefore you would expect 0.5% of people who die to have Covid if it had no effect on mortality, so by all means subtract 0.5% if you think you must. The reality of course is that in many countries people have died because of Covid without effective diagnosis, as shown by the excess deaths.

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?

So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

[Seaney]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

[Milltown Row2]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

[Seaney]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

[armaghniac]

So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

Flu deaths are mostly estimates, few people are tested. If you use tested flu fatality rates then you have no case at all.

What I am saying regarding undetected Covid deaths was published in a highly respected scientific outlet, not bizzareconspiracytheories.com. If Covid is not the reason then why are some many people dying at the same time as the Covid epidemic, have we July flu epidemic that nobody noticed?

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

Given your attitude to the spread of Covid that is a good thing.

[Angelo]

We subject the elderly and vulnerable to seasonal flu every year without any remorse of guilt. There are a huge level of hypocrites active on this thread.

I've asked this question countless times now, not one of those guys has had the balls to address it.

At what point does the level of death, consumption of the health service and long-term impact on people's health become an acceptable level of risk with Covid? Someone please step up to the plate here, qualify it.

[Angelo]

So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

Flu deaths are mostly estimates, few people are tested. If you use tested flu fatality rates then you have no case at all.

What I am saying regarding undetected Covid deaths was published in a highly respected scientific outlet, not bizzareconspiracytheories.com. If Covid is not the reason then why are some many people dying at the same time as the Covid epidemic, have we July flu epidemic that nobody noticed?

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

Given your attitude to the spread of Covid that is a good thing.

Yes, few people are tested - therefore the probabiltity of flu related deaths are much, much more likely to be understated than overstated. We already have a litany of examples of Covid being wrongly attributed as being the cause of death. We have numerous examples of this which is not speculative.

We don't have data on excess deaths in July so I don't know what you're talking about? Care to enlighten me?

A highly respected scientific outlet is a very subjective comment.

Have a read of this, I suppose you might classify it as a highly respected medical outlet.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=27335

[GetOverTheBar]

I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.