China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

[imtommygunn]

It has an uptake though.

Not sure what you are arguing at this point tbh.

Everyone thinks lockdown is bad. Things are out of control and in the absence of being able to figure out exactly wher the source of things is there is no choice. Aspects of it could be done differently yes but it needs done.

The flu thing is a nonsense. This thing is out of control. You have shown once in ten years that flu has overran the health service. This is looking at twice, minimum, in one year. That's a bit of a different magnitude of a stat really...

Then there is an understanding of flu etc. This thing is in early stages and longer term repercussions to people who got through it ok are yet to be understood.

Flu is bad and we live with an associated risk to it but it is a different beast entirely.

[Milltown Row2]

Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

So happy for family to pass away or even pass it on to them and allow them to die as it's acceptable and we live with other conditions like flu, aids, malaria?

[Angelo]

Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

So happy for family to pass away or even pass it on to them and allow them to die as it's acceptable and we live with other conditions like flu, aids, malaria?

That is a hysterical and very insulting post.

If I said you were happy for suicide rates to spike would that be true, would you take offence at such an allegation?

There are detrimental impacts of this approach we are taking with Covid and it will effect have drastic and detrimental effects on the economy and society as a result. The fact that you are going down that route to shut this debate down really typifies the type of lowlife you must be.

[restorepride]

I see everybody is hysterical now except Angelo.  Time for an Irish Lives Matter campaign?   

[highorlow]

2017/18 flu season was bad here we had nearly 12000 cases over 4700 in hospital over 190 in ICU and over 250 deaths. That's with a flu vaccine.

Those are the Undeniable Facts.

[imtommygunn]

How does that compare with the stats so far from this year though?

[restorepride]

I note Angelo is also getting more insulting - usually a sign of having admitted defeat in any discussion.  Irish Lives Matter.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

[restorepride]

Conor Glass is on!  Irish Lives Matter.

[restorepride]

More than 2,300 new cases on the island of Ireland today.  Keep safe.  Irish Lives Matter.

[Angelo]

I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

[imtommygunn]

The flu *sometimes* overwhelms the health system.

[restorepride]

I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter. 

[Angelo]

The flu *sometimes* overwhelms the health system.

Yet we live with it. The risk that the flu poses on an annual basis is deemed acceptable.