Gooch Retires

Started by Gold, April 04, 2017, 08:48:07 AM

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Avondhu star

After a lenghty investigation The Irish Examiner can reveal in an exclusive interview today the real reason why Cooper retired.
Apparently his body is no longer up to the level of intensive training required.
No shit Sherlock.
Do these journalists actually draw wages?
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

vallankumous

Quote from: Avondhu star on April 08, 2017, 08:35:03 AM
After a lenghty investigation The Irish Examiner can reveal in an exclusive interview today the real reason why Cooper retired.
Apparently his body is no longer up to the level of intensive training required.
No shit Sherlock.
Do these journalists actually draw wages?

Yip. It's probably an excuse to have a dig at, or, inform the world that GAA training is intense.

The Stallion

Modern GAA training is ridiculous in the extreme tbf.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: lenny on April 07, 2017, 09:38:11 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.





Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.

And since 08 I can list you numerous games where Sean Cavanagh has failed to step up to the plate when needed. In fact in the really important tight games which tyrone have lost poor decision making, being too greedy and poor discipline from Cavanagh has contributed to tyrone losing all those tight games.

But there's many big games where Cavanagh delivered in the crunch throughout the years, many big games where he came up with the goods when Tyrone were tottering.

With Cooper there is none, while you can reference Cavanagh not delivering they are countered by the many times he did deliver when needed, when Tyrone face adversity.

Cooper doesn't have those games to counter those many disappearing acts he did when his side needed him.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 07, 2017, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.





Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.

Unsurprising that Jordan comes out in show glowing praise of Cooper so after he starts writing a column for RTE. Do you not remember the hysteria Martin McHugh got himself in for when he made a quite fair comment on Cooper? Free speech and critique is banned when ti comes to Cooper from the mainstream media down south.

Sean Cavanagh has a track record of producing the goods when it really, really mattered. I can list you numerous big games when he came to the fore to save a Tyrone side on the ropes. The problem people have with Cooper is there's very few instances when those big games that were in the melting pot involving Kerry, did Cooper manage to pull it out. I'll ask you to recall a few for me.

It's a fair point and rather than dismiss it, I'd like you to address it. What was Cooper's best performance? When did he really dig Kerry out of a hole? For me it was guys like Tomas and Darragh O'Se, Kieran Donaghy and Declan O'Sullivan who were the guys who really stepped up and delivered when Kerry were in needs. That was substance over style.
Tomás and Darragh Ó Sé, Declan O'Sullivan were usually out around the centre of the pitch, therefore had more of a chance to turn things around. Donaghy was a big man for the long high balls in. Gooch was usually in the corner.  But if you reckon Donaghy is better than Cooper, I disagree.

What would a leader do though? They would get on the ball, did management not trust him going further out, he has played a fair bit of football at 11. Dublin in 2013 is a good example, he played at 11, he was very prominent in the first half when he was allowed play when Ger Brennan stood off him and allowed him time and space. Second half they stuck a different man on him, marked him tightly not a peep as Dublin turned around a big deficit, 35 minutes + of the game slipping away from Kerry and nothing from Cooper, he was deep that day but it followed the usual narrative.

It depends what you mean by better, I won't argue with people who want to cite Gooch as one of the most skillful players to play the game. But Donaghy was the guy who produced the goods when it mattered, time and time again he delivered big performances for Kerry when it mattered, he produced performances when it mattered. A Mayo man should know better than anyone else how Donaghy turned a game on its head when Kerry looked dead and buried in 2014 against Mayo and was equally imperative in the replay where Kerry prevailed AET.

Substance over style.

Estimator

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 08, 2017, 09:53:33 AM

What would a leader do though? They would get on the ball, did management not trust him going further out, he has played a fair bit of football at 11. Dublin in 2013 is a good example, he played at 11, he was very prominent in the first half when he was allowed play when Ger Brennan stood off him and allowed him time and space. Second half they stuck a different man on him, marked him tightly not a peep as Dublin turned around a big deficit, 35 minutes + of the game slipping away from Kerry and nothing from Cooper, he was deep that day but it followed the usual narrative.

It depends what you mean by better, I won't argue with people who want to cite Gooch as one of the most skillful players to play the game. But Donaghy was the guy who produced the goods when it mattered, time and time again he delivered big performances for Kerry when it mattered, he produced performances when it mattered. A Mayo man should know better than anyone else how Donaghy turned a game on its head when Kerry looked dead and buried in 2014 against Mayo and was equally imperative in the replay where Kerry prevailed AET.

Substance over style.

Yes, a massive 2pt half time deficit
Ulster League Champions 2009

The Stallion

This stuff about delivering when needed is absolute tripe. Good players are always needed. And Cooper was consistently a very good player despite being on the wrong end of some disgraceful treatment.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: The Stallion on April 08, 2017, 11:07:38 AM
This stuff about delivering when needed is absolute tripe. Good players are always needed. And Cooper was consistently a very good player despite being on the wrong end of some disgraceful treatment.

Cooper's persistent diving and attempts to referee games seem to have been airbrushed out of people's minds for years now. He was no saint. The stuff about being able to deliver on the big stage is very relevant, ask Argentine fans about Messi. Time and time again in the big games when your side is in bother you look to your big players and time and time again when Kerry found themselves in trouble, the Gooch did not demand the ball, he did not do what he could do when he was playing Mayo and Cork sides bereft of confidence.

The disgraceful treatment he received would have been no different than that any player of considerable talent would have received over the years. God help him if he ever had to face the Meath side of the 90s. All I hear for Cooper are excuses as to why he never produced the magic he could when his side desperately required it. It was always the likes of O'Ses, Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy who stood up and carried Kerry when times were rough. How would Gooch have faired if he was swapped with someone like Paddy Bradley or Mattie Forde?

Wildweasel74

#143
bomber talking about Cooper diving and then talking about big Sean in the same sentence, seriously bomber u f**king laughable, Cavanagh been the biggest diver about for years and he didn't produce against Mayo last year even b4 he got the road.

longballin

Some great players on this board and rubbish Gooch only got 8 All Stars, 5 All Irelands with Kerry and an All Ireland club medal  :o

mayoaremagic

Gooch the best ever player to play Gaelic football

longballin

Quote from: mayoaremagic on April 08, 2017, 03:07:01 PM
Gooch the best ever player to play Gaelic football

:D don't be getting carried away, not even in top five to come out of Kerry.... Sheehy, Maurice Fitz, Spillane, Mick O', Paudie... maybe in top five forwards

lenny

I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: lenny on April 08, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

For the umpteenth time.

Any chance you can inform me of times Gooch did step up when Kerry were tottering and deliver for them in big games?

If you can't then take your evasive bunkum elsewhere as we're going round in circles. The Gooch nazis do not want to engage in fair criticism of his career, nobody is doubting his talent but his disappearing acts at crunch times is the elephant in the room and pretending it didn't happen is being an ass about things.

The Stallion

Quote from: lenny on April 08, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
I'm starting to understand how this works for some people. When Kerry lose tight games that is the all the fault of gooch for not stepping up to the plate. When tyrone lose 14 championship games in the last 8 seasons, quite a few of them by a small margin, then that is not the fault of sean cavanagh for getting back cards or his often terrible shot selection, but it is the collective fault of the tyrone team. Also peter canavan lost many championship games for tyrone often by small enough margins. By the same criteria applied to gooch he's just an average forward who should have stepped up a bit more to get his team over the line. What people lose sight of is that without gooch the tight games that kerry lost would've been big losses and the big wins they achieved would've been much tougher games. I'm inclined to trust the opinions of 2 players who played with and aginst gooch and are both excellent judges. Both tomas ose and philip jordan who now both work for RTE have said that gooch was the greatest forward they have seen. That's good enough for me and I would tend to agree.

Spot on. Well said. Exposing the folly of his argument there.