The Sunday Game

[muppet]

With friends like Brolly........

Former Derry All-Ireland winner Joe Brolly, one of the most high-profile contributors to RTE's live coverage of major championship matches, accepts that everyone is entitled to their view but recalls a recent incident that took place outside Croke Park which perhaps puts another perspective on matters.

"Myself and Colm O'Rourke were coming out of Croke Park at the end of a long day and this guy comes up to Colm and in colourful language let him know what he thought of his opinions, referring to them as crap," says Brolly.

"Colm listened politely to him and when the guy had finished he said to him — 'Do you know the best part of all this, I'll get paid again for delivering much the same crap next Sunday!"

http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=topicdisplay&tid=1119081

[Orangemac]

With friends like Brolly........

Former Derry All-Ireland winner Joe Brolly, one of the most high-profile contributors to RTE's live coverage of major championship matches, accepts that everyone is entitled to their view but recalls a recent incident that took place outside Croke Park which perhaps puts another perspective on matters.

"Myself and Colm O'Rourke were coming out of Croke Park at the end of a long day and this guy comes up to Colm and in colourful language let him know what he thought of his opinions, referring to them as crap," says Brolly.

"Colm listened politely to him and when the guy had finished he said to him — 'Do you know the best part of all this, I'll get paid again for delivering much the same crap next Sunday!"

http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=topicdisplay&tid=1119081

"long day" - what time did the bar open at Joe?. You are looking at a maximum of 1 hours analysis even for a double header.

It's not like Joe does any pre match swotting up. Then again it is a barrister and a teacher so it probably seemed like a long days work

[ONeill]

McGeeney right to slam critics

By Declan Bogue

Consider Kieran McGeeney for a minute. He isn't given to communicating with the GAA public through the media too often, but when he does, he contributes something of weight and worth.

On the radio last Saturday, he hit on a riff about the paucity of quality analysis of Gaelic games. It went to the heart of a matter that has frustrated followers for some time now.

"I think analysis of our games is poor, at best," he said. "Nobody wants to look at why things happen, how things are moving on or progressed and why people use different tactics. All those sort of things which I believe are the interesting parts of the game — they just want to give out.

"Maybe that's what sells, maybe that's why Eastenders is the most popular TV programme, because people like to be depressed.

"Statistically we don't know what happens in a game or why it happens, and how it leads to success. We try to pontificate based on very little knowledge and anecdotally."

The same question was put to Tyrone boss Mickey Harte at the launch of the league finals at Croke Park, and as ever, he was illuminating.

"There's far too much negativity and people harking back to past days, suggesting that they were the only days that ever existed, that football was at its top level. Now we are at the next level of where the game has gone.

"Let's talk up what's good about our games. People are not positional in how they play the game — they are actually total footballers. A corner back is now comfortable taking a score, a corner forward is comfortable putting in a last-ditch block. Why should numbers mean anything? Let's be creative in the extreme to add as many skills as we can to our repertoire."

It's a fair bet to say that a good bit of this criticism is aimed at the RTE three-headed beast of O'Rourke, Brolly and Spillane.

And McGeeney and Harte are right in what they say. In their own ways, all of them have pigeon-holed themselves into a cartoonish image of their own beliefs. You know the script before they open their mouths.

In America they can't get enough of statistical analysis, and have programmes such as ESPN's 'The Sports Reporters', where three respected journalists will discuss the week's sporting concerns. To survive in that format requires an agile thought process, plenty of hard evidence and a little humility to accept what others say.

It's a million miles away from Pat Spillane coining crude phrases such as 'puke football' to repeat ad nauseam. That kind of errant schoolboy schtick, however, has sustained his punditry career for the last decade.

We say all this, but then we must recognise the reality of television.

It is not an arm of the GAA. It is entertainment, plain and simple. Soundbite is king and there isn't the time nor have they identified the expertise to get drawn into a discussion about the nuts and bolts of the game.

On any summer Sunday, an inter-county Championship game will be screened. Those that care about it are in the ground. Those not present but with a direct involvement in the GAA are most likely at a club game.

What is left over is a broad base of consumers, deliberating over watching the Gah or the Antiques Roadshow.

Give them a choice between a nerd-off between GAA writers throwing facts and figures at each other or watching Joe Brolly slouching on a sofa gesticulating wildly while he reveals the third secret of the blanket defence to the obvious discomfort of Spillane. It's not hard to see which they might prefer.

Perhaps television delivers the kind of analysis viewers deserve, and no more.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/declan-bogue/declan-bogue-mcgeeney-right-to-slam-critics-16153156.html

[EC Unique]

Good article but the last 4 paragraphs are bullshit. Have they not heard of sky plus? Recording? And the Sunday game is on late at night when it can be viewed by all. I don't mind some of the Craic amongst the boys but proper statistical analysis would also be nice.

[Orangemac]

I find it hard to believe RTE deliberately have the pundits they do for entertaining the general sporting viewers. I think they honestly believe it is top class stuff they are serving up.

Many people on a Sunday can't get to a game for whatever reason, do they not deserve professional analysis of the game rather than a Monty Python sketch. TV3 in fairness to them try and bring stats into the game and there is more of an attempt at actual analysis on BBC (maybe because they have n ads and have time to fill).

[cadhlancian]

Definetly very true! Was listening to the radio this morning in the car, and the sports station guys were talking about baseball! There are stats such as hits, walks , RBI ( runs batted in) on base % etc. I live in San Diego and the padres are shite to put it mildly! These guys were talking about how the Padres players not only have poor batting averages, but also brought up the fact that there is an actual stat in the paper , showing how many pitches they actually SAW in each at bat!! So if a player had 1 hit in 4 at bats, most people would be fine with that stat....the count one shows that although they may been gotten out, they may have had the pitcher throw them say 12 pitches to get them out. Just thought it was remarkable that on a shite team , in the ealry part of the year , someone would be keeping an eye on this ?

P.s Did I go a bit there??

[Jinxy]

Baseball is made for stats though.
I wouldn't like to see gaelic football go down that route.
Meaningful statistics are great but I've no interest in hearing about how Bernard Brogan has an 85% success rate when he kicks off his left foot in the last 5 minutes of a game played in the rain.

[cadence]

one of the problems with the rte boys seems to be their need to have a pissing competition between them every week. it would be nice to see people on there who can actually do analysis without letting their egos get in the way.

i'd like to see proper analysis, with evidence for that analysis provided. tactics are rarely broken down and analysed... the how teams are setting up and what is done to counteract this set up and the further switches that happen as a game evolves. it's as if rte have a romanticised sentimental perspective of the game instead of the reality of it. it's more commentary than analysis, about "kicking and fielding" skills, and not much else. the game is more sophisticated than that.

[the Deel Rover]

i'd love to see the stats on how many actually watch the 1/2 time and full time analysis on rte anymore. Like the article says you know what curly larry and moe are going to discuss anyway, more of the same auld shit* that we have been listening to the last 15 years. Me personally i'd rather have my teeth pulled out than listen to their opinions of the game.

[seafoid]

Baseball is made for stats though.
I wouldn't like to see gaelic football go down that route.
Meaningful statistics are great but I've no interest in hearing about how Bernard Brogan has an 85% success rate when he kicks off his left foot in the last 5 minutes of a game played in the rain.

A few years ago in the Sindo Christy O Connor did a full stats run down on the hurling final and it came across as something for a very special(ist) audience. 

[johnneycool]

Baseball is made for stats though.
I wouldn't like to see gaelic football go down that route.
Meaningful statistics are great but I've no interest in hearing about how Bernard Brogan has an 85% success rate when he kicks off his left foot in the last 5 minutes of a game played in the rain.

A few years ago in the Sindo Christy O Connor did a full stats run down on the hurling final and it came across as something for a very special(ist) audience.

And the stats for that game are selectively quoted by certain coaches to embellish their agenda such as in the 2011 AI final the ground stroke was used three times, the average time in possession of the ball was 1.7 seconds or the likes. Five minutes later the same coach was giving off to a fella for raising the ball with one hand on the hurley. I asked him what the stats for the one handed lift as opposed to the two handed lift were for the same game, strangely he didn't have them to hand!

Stats have value if they're relevant, but I'm not so sure I want to listen to stats being churned out at half time and full time.

I like Donal O Grady as he's fairly clued in, but will sit on the fence on any contentious matters, whereas Duignan goes sailing straight in whether he's right or wrong.

[haranguerer]

The journalists job is to use stats to illustrate - of course an article just quoting stats is going to be crap, its pulling out the less obvious revealing ones, and using them to illustrate the journalists take on tactics/games, and doing so in an entertaining way

[seafoid]

The journalists job is to use stats to illustrate - of course an article just quoting stats is going to be crap, its pulling out the less obvious revealing ones, and using them to illustrate the journalists take on tactics/games, and doing so in an entertaining way

I came across this video the other day. Gerry Thornley on rugby. He doesn't do the stats overload 
Sports journalism at its best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvLk-r3kXc&feature=player_embedded

[ONeill]

The journalists job is to use stats to illustrate - of course an article just quoting stats is going to be crap, its pulling out the less obvious revealing ones, and using them to illustrate the journalists take on tactics/games, and doing so in an entertaining way

I came across this video the other day. Gerry Thornley on rugby. He doesn't do the stats overload 
Sports journalism at its best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvLk-r3kXc&feature=player_embedded

I don't see how it is. Nearly everything there is stats based or factually based. Anything else is barely opinion.

I'm a massive fan of stats as it can completely debunk who is perceived to be playing badly. I've witnessed Tyrone players getting slaughtered in the stands (and in the RTE studio) while the stats show they're the most economical players on show.

[Jinxy]

Yeah but that isn't always a good thing.
The more aware players become of their stats, the more 'cheap' stats they might try and accrue i.e. always taking the simple, safe option might make you a legend on a spreadsheet but that's not much use if you've lost the game.