Stoops support SPADS, Sinn Fein sad and mad.

[Tony Baloney]

Don t know what the Shinners are yapping about here.
They will still have the same number of advisors.

So you think it is OK or an ex-RUC man who was involved in the conflict here and could have been involved in killing Julie Livingstone or Carol Ann Kelly but never served a day for doing it can be a spad but an ex IRA man who served over 5 years cannot .Thats what wrong with this bill simple.

ex Provos who were never caught for killing people can be a spad.

Yes but Republicans who were arrested tortured and jailed for things they didn't do can't and RUC and Brits who were never charged can.Bad law

And Provos who intimidated  tortured and murdered innocent people and were never brought before a court can be a spad.

We could go on here all day. Just accept the democratic vote.

is that not what happened when we voted for the gfa. this outcome fuels the dissys cause

Why would the dissidents give a shit about a few SF cronies losing out on these jobs?

[All of a Sludden]

Shinners blaming the SDLP for what is a huge error on their part. Surely this should have been included in the Good Friday Agreement.

[Nally Stand]

No doubt the stoops will present their shameful decision as being out of concern for victims as a whole and that they don't treat victims in any hierarchy. Which is odd because this morning, (and not for the first time) they refused to meet the families of collusion victims who were in stormont before the debate. An absolutely pathetic, pathetic bunch of hypocritical weaklings they truly are. Stoops will always stoop.

[Gordon Brittas]

Big Dolly knows the game is up for her, she only scraped home by the skin of her teeth on the final count last time out, and being the vindictive maniac that she is, she wants to take as many as she can with her

[Gaffer]

No doubt the stoops will present their shameful decision as being out of concern for victims as a whole and that they don't treat victims in any hierarchy. Which is odd because this morning, (and not for the first time) they refused to meet the families of collusion victims who were in stormont before the debate. An absolutely pathetic, pathetic bunch of hypocritical weaklings they truly are. Stoops will always stoop.

Sore loser eh?

SDLP are entitled to vote as they see fit.

I would imagine that a number of non ex-jailbird Sinn Fein workers will be delighted with this as well. It gives  them an opportunity to get one of these advisor jobs that otherwise would have gone to others as a reward for 'services rendered'

[Myles Na G.]

Who does this bill discriminate against? Against people who've spent 5 years or more in jail. That's it. Doesn't discriminate on the grounds of whether you're an ex member of a republican or loyalist murder squad, or whether you're an ODC. The shinner panty-wetting over this issue has nothing to do with discrimination, but rather because their project to rewrite the history of the troubles according to chucky ar la myths and legends has been temporarily derailed. Victims of collusion? What about the victims of countless IRA murders and bombings who've never had justice either? How are the collusion victims any worse off than these? All this legislation will do is prevent a tiny handful of victims having to watch the killers of their loved ones being rewarded with highly paid, tax payer funded jobs. Dry your eyes, chuck.

[Maguire01]

Absolutely disgusting from the SDLP. Wouldn't have happened under John Hume's watch.

They deserve to be electorally wiped out for that.

That happen years ago..

If that had happened years ago then SF wouldn't have needed the SDLP to support their petition.

[Maguire01]

But there cannot be a hierarchy of victims.

I don't understand this idea at all. There absolutely should be a hierarchy of victims. As has been said many times, a paramilitary killed planting their own bomb and an innocent child who happened to be passing the scene - both equal victims? I don't think so.

[Gordon Brittas]

Absolutely disgusting from the SDLP. Wouldn't have happened under John Hume's watch.

They deserve to be electorally wiped out for that.

That happen years ago..

If that had happened years ago then SF wouldn't have needed the SDLP to support their petition.

Actually they didn't. They could have got it through had Steven Agnew of the Greens signed the POC. He chose not to but bizarrely he voted against the Bill

[Maguire01]

Absolutely disgusting from the SDLP. Wouldn't have happened under John Hume's watch.

They deserve to be electorally wiped out for that.

That happen years ago..

If that had happened years ago then SF wouldn't have needed the SDLP to support their petition.

Actually they didn't. They could have got it through had Steven Agnew of the Greens signed the POC. He chose not to but bizarrely he voted against the Bill

I can't understand why a North Down MLA wouldn't want to openly back up SF on this one, can you?
Anyway, my point is that the SDLP could have secured the POC. That wouldn't have been possible if they'd been 'electorally wiped out'.

[Maguire01]

Is this not democracy in action in the same way as the flegs debate in BCC? I must have missed something.

There are quite a few parallels:

Flegs: Fake 'Alliance' leaflets distributed
SPADs: Fake SDLP 'racist' flyer doing the rounds on Twitter

Flegs: Alliance accused of supporting SF, just because they were voting the same way
SPADs: SDLP accused of supporting TUV, just because they were voting the same way... even though they actually weren't

Flegs: Unionists not very happy at losing democratic vote
SPADs: SF not very happy at losing democratic vote

Flegs: Alliance told they'll be electorally wiped out
SPADs: SDLP told they'll be electorally wiped out

[Nally Stand]

Aside from the many more killed through collusion, the British Army itself shot dead over 300 innocent Irish men, women and children during the troubles. Only four were ever convicted. Two were released within six years, reinstated into the army and promoted, and two were released within TWO years and received full pay while imprisoned. In stoop land therefor, if you are a british soldier convicted of murder there's still a 50/50 chance of being eligable to be SPAD.

And just to really demonstrate how grossly insulting the stoops have been to state victims (aside from refusing to meet a group of them before yesterdays debate), it's worth remembering a British Army document from 1972, leaked earlier this year.

In 1972, 79 Irish people were shot dead by the British Army on Irish soil. The vast majority of these were civilians. In July 1972, a strategic government and security meeting at Stormont Castle was held, involving the Secretary for State William Whitelaw MP, the North's most senior British Army officer the General Officer Commanding (GOC) General Ford, the Deputy Chief Constable of the RUC, plus Lord Windlesham the British government's representative in the House of Lords, British MP's, and senior civil servants from the NIO. Relatives for Justice earlier this year unearthed a document from this meeting. The document includes some striking quotes:

* That the GOC (the Head of the British Army in the north) "would see UDA leaders that afternoon" to let them know that their "efforts as vigilantes" were "acceptable".

* And crucially,  'The (British) Army should not be inhibited in its campaign by the threat of court proceedings and should therefore be suitably indemnified."


That year 79 people were shot by the British Army. The meeting took place in July. That month the British Army killed 20 innocent civilians. Not one British soldier faced a conviction for ANY of these killings throughout 1972.

[T Fearon]

Will this lead to Dolly Partin'...from the SDLP?

[Applesisapples]

No doubt the stoops will present their shameful decision as being out of concern for victims as a whole and that they don't treat victims in any hierarchy. Which is odd because this morning, (and not for the first time) they refused to meet the families of collusion victims who were in stormont before the debate. An absolutely pathetic, pathetic bunch of hypocritical weaklings they truly are. Stoops will always stoop.

Sore loser eh?

SDLP are entitled to vote as they see fit.

I would imagine that a number of non ex-jailbird Sinn Fein workers will be delighted with this as well. It gives  them an opportunity to get one of these advisor jobs that otherwise would have gone to others as a reward for 'services rendered'

I would have understood had they actually had the courage of their convictions and actually voted for the bill. In essence they have assisted Unionists in the undermining of the GFA. On the Unionist side once again they have shown that a large proportion of Unionists are not interested in a shared future unless it is strictly on their terms. If the SDLP really had the interests of victims at heart what about Jude White, the Bloody Sunday relatives, Ballymurphy, and the many others. The SDLP have prioritised the feelings of one victim. Listening to the debate on radio Unionists legitimise Unionist violence/resistance in quite a hypocritical fashion.

[Applesisapples]

But there cannot be a hierarchy of victims.

I don't understand this idea at all. There absolutely should be a hierarchy of victims. As has been said many times, a paramilitary killed planting their own bomb and an innocent child who happened to be passing the scene - both equal victims? I don't think so.

Very simplistic but ignorant post, you need to research the history of the north before espousing this type of comment. Violence is not the preserve of just one faction. Partition came about through loyalist paramilitary violence.