Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[lawnseed]

On a separate topic, I heard the Sinn Fein candidate in the Meath East by election there on Newstalk this morning. Very disappointing I thought. The new Sinn Fein candidates tend to be articulate and very sure of their ground. He was very stuttery I felt, and he had Pat Rabbitte by the 'nads if he wanted to go after him properly.

i refer my honourable friend to the reply i gave several pages ago.. pearse, tobin and mary lou. the rest- written statements only especially in the 26

[lawnseed]

heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can

Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.

i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.
what do you think of the free tickets idea? seeing your still trying to think of an idea of your own

[heganboy]

On this island Software Development continues to grow.  A few point on this:

1) The great drive East has slowed.  Outsourcing is not what it used to be.
2) The Republic lost out a lot when everyone gave up on education to get into property/building etc..We would have further growth if we could provide the people.
3) The famous corporate tax rate is a red herring, multi-nationals pay less in other countries
4) Data centres are cheapest to run in a temperate climate (although we get more extremes lately)
5) The industry trend is much more towards large centres.  Land a few and generate their own mini-economy: services, catering, houses etc..

If Northern Ireland had a government sufficiently driven on getting this kind of investment (instead of scoring points off each other) they could:

1) Promote maths/science etc in schools
2) Promote science graduate courses (even link them into industry as a direct feed)
3) Go after the multi-nationals.  In such a small population a few wins would go a long way
4) Provide suitably service sites for data centres/cloud computing etc..

The key though is speed in the short-term.  The Republic is leaking jobs due to lack of staff (despite our unemployment rate!)

Other smaller schemes around tourism etc.. are always important.  Unfortunately due to likes of flag protests etc. . Northern Ireland still has a poor name as a destination.  It's small beans but it adds up.

For the record: It is difficult to put faith in any scheme that is dependent on harvesting natural resources (even hydro) from an area the size of the six counties.

/Jim.

Jim,
thats a fair amount of sense in one post
I'd agree with most of what you say there..

[Jim_Murphy_74]

your right jim. you should give the chips a miss.
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.

[Tony Baloney]

your right jim. you should give the chips a miss.
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.

Lawnseed could power a millstone to make flour and then he could sell the bread. Or he could power a lighbulb from which he could create forgeries of the great paintings of the world. Come on man!

[lawnseed]

your right jim. you should give the chips a miss.
not alot of actual jobs in your idea more a sort of aspiration.. service industry.. stuff.. maybe in 20 years. sitting gawking into a computer doesnt really put many containers on the boat. as for getting into the building industy most of the overpriced houses south of the border will fall before they are paid for because they are of poor quality.

picture you sitting there with 50000 to invest in a business idea where you will get a wage before you starve. not you as a student thinking of a job in 10years time.. the folk who need the work are the ones buying oil in drums and wearing coats watching telly.. get the picture?

For the record I am on the (irish) management team of a multi-national and we have created 300 positions in 3.5 years.  We take grads from areas and put them through a 1.5 year conversion course.  1 year academic with 6 month placement.  Get your grades and you are guaranteed a job.

It's only 300 people so far but it's a lot less than 20 years to turn it around.  I would say we spent 2 years in coming up with the idea, designing the courses, getting approval and funding.  Then 1.5 years for first grads.  Couldn't tell you the total cost over that time so don't know how far 50K would go but it's job within 4 years....

Anyway I feel it's more practical than aspirational.  If this was done at government level surely the returns could be greater?



So...lets look at other ideas in the same way:

what is the lead-time in design a hydro-electric station?

Who will invest in building these stations?

When will they be productive?

Will this be a industry selling electricity or will it attract other industry with cheap electricity?

What is the return on investment projection? If I put money in, when will I get it back?

I'm guessing that 50K would generate no more than 1 short-term job in hydro in the short-term.  (ie pay for one guy doing some kind of feasibility...)

/Jim.

thats great jim. 300 jobs on this island? guaranteed a job? thats really something. but you talk as if the 'grads' your converting got their qualifications for nothing. that in itself is a considerable investment. i'm not going to try make you understand that not everyone whos unemployed has been through a third level eduacation but i'll mention it the next time i hear someone crying about not having any money then i'll run away before they punch my lights out

[Jim_Murphy_74]

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can[/b]

A company that have built 30 installations of 20-40MW in size across the whole of Britain so far but you envision 1,000 of MWs being generated in the six counties.

Large scale sites are often asked to have their own source of electricity so that they can drop from the grid at peak times to avoid outages.  Their might be a role for a scheme like derwent provide in that case.  However, the slow response of hydro-electric makes it unsuitable for this kind of on-off situation.

Selling the output of such a generator would raise 20k or so a year (according to their FAQ) which would be a useful addition to a suitably located business with the upfront cash to invest.  However  I miss how it would solve Northern Ireland's overall employment issues.

/Jim.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

thats great jim. 300 jobs on this island? guaranteed a job? thats really something. but you talk as if the 'grads' your converting got their qualifications for nothing. that in itself is a considerable investment. i'm not going to try make you understand that not everyone whos unemployed has been through a third level eduacation but i'll mention it the next time i hear someone crying about not having any money then i'll run away before they punch my lights out

It's one company, one scheme:  You choose to ignore my point that on a government level the jobs would be greater.  You also sneered at my point that those jobs also need services:  More canteen staff, more people shopping in the area:  It adds up to a injection into the economy that creates other jobs that don't need a degree.

It's steps like that which work overtime to generate a sustained economy.

Will the hydro-electric designers in your scheme not need degrees.  You are happy to apply great rigour to my ideas but no answer on your own.

I said I'd take you up on face value but you don't even bother to fully read my posts or give a genuine reply.

Sneer away but if every company had a similar expansion then the unemployment rate would be a lot lower.

And plenty of people who had the ability to get science degrees ended up on the dole because they went to construction, banking and property speculation.

/Jim

[lawnseed]

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can[/b]

A company that have built 30 installations of 20-40MW in size across the whole of Britain so far but you envision 1,000 of MWs being generated in the six counties.

Large scale sites are often asked to have their own source of electricity so that they can drop from the grid at peak times to avoid outages.  Their might be a role for a scheme like derwent provide in that case.  However, the slow response of hydro-electric makes it unsuitable for this kind of on-off situation.

Selling the output of such a generator would raise 20k or so a year (according to their FAQ) which would be a useful addition to a suitably located business with the upfront cash to invest.  However  I miss how it would solve Northern Ireland's overall employment issues.

/Jim.

jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. if guys like john kirk who founded keady and darkley and employed thousands of non graduates had followed your advice and ignored this power source he wouldn't have ended up with warehouses in Belfast, new york, London, Paris, moscow. he wouldn't have brought the railway to keady or put 12000 tonnes of produce on the train and there wouldn't be a monument in the middle of keady in tribute to him would there.
will your employees erect a monument to you i suppose they could create a virtual one in cyberspace.
  we want the same thing but we are talking about two different types of unemployed people. also with government cuts and rising costs a third level education is not going to be affordable to most parents for their kids.
  i don't actually know how this works but it seem that Britain has been offered Guatemala's carbon credits which is handy but they want paid for them

[Jim_Murphy_74]

jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.

[lawnseed]

well our nordie government have it nailed we're going to build more roads.. twos years work maybe three then back to the dole.. that'll pay the 20 year mortgage

[Maguire01]

heres one.. the governments of this island could charter flights from wealthier countries to ireland and give the tickets to tourists for free. the return filght not to be before 7 days. instant cash injection

also check out derwent hydro..  yes we can

Without checking out Derwent Hydro I know Derbyshire and the Peak District fairly well having spent 6 weeks in the area as a student. There are significant rivers and reservoirs in the area so not sure if there is any comparison to the Bann. If you google the respective flows and heads on the Derwent and Bann and come back with the figures then we'll talk. The Peak District has a lot peaks.

However, it is good to see you modifying your position from using the Bann to power the entire country to powering individual businesses. On this I won't disagree with you - if the supply was sufficient to generate power on a localised basis then it would do no harm to avail of it and even better if it generated employment.

i never said the entire country but as they say every little helps.

You made the comparison with Canada, so I assumed you were talking about generating energy for the grid. If it was just about a factory/business generating its own power, and it was feasible, then it wouldn't need government intervention - the private sector would be over it like a rash.

[Maguire01]

well our nordie government have it nailed we're going to build more roads.. twos years work maybe three then back to the dole.. that'll pay the 20 year mortgage

Who do we blame? Conor Murphy?

[Maguire01]

jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.

Jim, this penny ain't droppin'.

[lawnseed]

jim..! jim? maybe a non graduate like me could get a job cleaning your windows or washing your car. maybe you could give me a drum of oil for my heating.. you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Okay last time.  I give an idea with some figures and ideas as to how it would work and a get the old shake of a head and "Jim!Jim?".

Okay you are a not graduate. Fine, I work for a software company who in the main employ graduates yes.

However we have canteen staff, admin staff, payroll staff, gardening staff,maintenance staff, cleaning staff in the evenings.  We even have power generation staff in facilities (and you are putting great stead in that!)

We employed local tradesmen when we expanded our site.  We needed architects, builders, electricians and carpenters.

People spend their money in local shops.  The local spar extended and added a deli counter to do sandwiches at lunch.

The staff go out in the local town and spend money.  They get cabs home.   They buy/rent houses in a depressed market.

That is my point:  yes there are different types of unemployed people but activity in one area generates activity in other areas.

You don't have a degree: fine!
You don't want to wash windows or cars: fine!

but a multi-national company of sufficient size will provide other jobs that run the gammet inbetween.

You put it out for suggestions and I am probably as wrong as wrong can be but will struggle on with IDA et al.. here and await the Hydro-Electric revolution.

/Jim.

Jim, this penny ain't droppin'.

hold on jim heres maguire with some fresh ideas horray the economy is saved.
so i'm enthusatic about wind power and hydro electric and solar and biogas. theres a thread running on this board about potbelly stoves. so we are to believe that people want to saw sticks and carry coal? they are fitting stoves to try to save oil or gas! i know we wont running any factories from alternative energy sources but they can help reduce the country's overall oil bill. i believe that only when we have harnessed every single bit of this type of energy source and reaped the benefits of the employment created only then should we be buying carbon credits.
btw i've been informed that there are 80 jobs for electrical engineers in scotland that remain unfilled for over six months doing maintainance to wind turbines