Eighth Amendment poll

Started by Farrandeelin, May 01, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

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Are you in favour of repealing the 8th amendment?

Yes
47 (21.8%)
Yes but have no vote
73 (33.8%)
No
40 (18.5%)
No but have no vote
36 (16.7%)
Undecided
20 (9.3%)

Total Members Voted: 216

Voting closed: May 24, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

Syferus

Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2018, 01:25:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 11, 2018, 06:06:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 11, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 11, 2018, 01:42:29 PM
I don't think the blaming of the other side serves any purpose. After this is over we need to unite and support women and children in a caring and compassionate society and the blame game will make that more difficult. Even if it's a yes vote, we all need to strive for a society where there's a reduction in the number of reasons a woman might consider an abortion. In my mind, that the ONLY way that we all win. Idealistic I know but I think everyone's feet need to be held to the fire on how much they really care.
Indeed, but remember that many people on the No side:
i) Wanted to keep contraception banned
ii) Object to sex education which actually deals with the reality of the world we live in today
iii) Spend a lot of their time vilifying single mothers and state supports for them

"many" is easy to say, if there are over a million people involved then some will have almost any wierd view available. However, most people believe that not creating a pregnancy is a responsible thing, creating one and then ending it less so. As for single mothers, "many" on the yes side believe they should abort their children and not live off the rest of the population.

Its the oldest trick in the book....find the most offensive views held by the fringes of opposing side, then paint everyone who disagrees with you as holding the same views, thereby discrediting all dissenting opinions

..err, you do know you're describing exactly what you yourself have done multiple times in this thread and probably thousands of times in the US thread, right?

macdanger2

Quote from: sid waddell on May 11, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 11, 2018, 01:42:29 PM
I don't think the blaming of the other side serves any purpose. After this is over we need to unite and support women and children in a caring and compassionate society and the blame game will make that more difficult. Even if it's a yes vote, we all need to strive for a society where there's a reduction in the number of reasons a woman might consider an abortion. In my mind, that the ONLY way that we all win. Idealistic I know but I think everyone's feet need to be held to the fire on how much they really care.
Indeed, but remember that many people on the No side:
i) Wanted to keep contraception banned
ii) Object to sex education which actually deals with the reality of the world we live in today
iii) Spend a lot of their time vilifying single mothers and state supports for them

Sid, you're never going to change the minds of those people. However, by tarring everyone who considers voting no with the same brush, you lose any chance you had of convincing the soft no's and undecideds to vote yes.

In another post you've compared the No campaign to trump/Brexit campaigns and yet you're reacting in the same manner as the Clinton / anti-brexit campaigns, a different approach might be more effective.

whitey

Quote from: Syferus on May 12, 2018, 01:39:38 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 12, 2018, 01:25:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 11, 2018, 06:06:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 11, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 11, 2018, 01:42:29 PM
I don't think the blaming of the other side serves any purpose. After this is over we need to unite and support women and children in a caring and compassionate society and the blame game will make that more difficult. Even if it's a yes vote, we all need to strive for a society where there's a reduction in the number of reasons a woman might consider an abortion. In my mind, that the ONLY way that we all win. Idealistic I know but I think everyone's feet need to be held to the fire on how much they really care.
Indeed, but remember that many people on the No side:
i) Wanted to keep contraception banned
ii) Object to sex education which actually deals with the reality of the world we live in today
iii) Spend a lot of their time vilifying single mothers and state supports for them

"many" is easy to say, if there are over a million people involved then some will have almost any wierd view available. However, most people believe that not creating a pregnancy is a responsible thing, creating one and then ending it less so. As for single mothers, "many" on the yes side believe they should abort their children and not live off the rest of the population.

Its the oldest trick in the book....find the most offensive views held by the fringes of opposing side, then paint everyone who disagrees with you as holding the same views, thereby discrediting all dissenting opinions

..err, you do know you're describing exactly what you yourself have done multiple times in this thread and probably thousands of times in the US thread, right?

That is a false statement.

sid waddell

#348
There's a direct lineage from every regressive campaign going back to at least the 1970s to the current No campaign.

That lineage encompasses opposition to contraception, the 1983 8th Amendment referendum, the 1986 and 1995 divorce referendums, the 1992 abortion referendums on the right to travel for an abortion and the right to information, opposition to the decriminalisation of homosexuality, the 2002 referendum which attempted to eliminate the right of a suicidal woman to an abortion established in the X Case, opposition to the introduction of same sex civil partnerships, opposition to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act in 2013 and the same sex marriage referendum in 2015.

The same faces pop up again and again and again leading these campaigns and they've lied copiously and been wrong every single time.

The old guard of Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna, Alice Glenn, William Binchy, Des Hanafin, then the likes of Patricia Casey, John Waters and the vile Youth Defence mob of Niamh Nic Mhathuna and Justin Barrett, and in the last decade or so David Quinn and the IONA "Institute", Ronan Mullen, and Declan Ganley.

All highly reactionary ultra-conservative Roman Catholics. If they had their way, women would still have to organise contraceptive trains.

None of these people gave or give a flying fook about the immense harm they cause/d to Irish people. And they're still trying.

None of them have or had anything to offer Irish people except fear, embarrassment, shame and misery.

The day they are finally routed once and for all cannot come quick enough.



Syferus

#349
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 12, 2018, 01:48:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 11, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 11, 2018, 01:42:29 PM
I don't think the blaming of the other side serves any purpose. After this is over we need to unite and support women and children in a caring and compassionate society and the blame game will make that more difficult. Even if it's a yes vote, we all need to strive for a society where there's a reduction in the number of reasons a woman might consider an abortion. In my mind, that the ONLY way that we all win. Idealistic I know but I think everyone's feet need to be held to the fire on how much they really care.
Indeed, but remember that many people on the No side:
i) Wanted to keep contraception banned
ii) Object to sex education which actually deals with the reality of the world we live in today
iii) Spend a lot of their time vilifying single mothers and state supports for them

Sid, you're never going to change the minds of those people. However, by tarring everyone who considers voting no with the same brush, you lose any chance you had of convincing the soft no's and undecideds to vote yes.

In another post you've compared the No campaign to trump/Brexit campaigns and yet you're reacting in the same manner as the Clinton / anti-brexit campaigns, a different approach might be more effective.

I don't agree with some of Sid's characterisations but there's a big misconception here that people are genuinely open to being proven wrong on anything, or that people are trying to win over others.

People just keep shouting the same preconceived notions over and over again - that's why I stopped trying to convince anyone of anything on this site a long time ago. I think AZ is one of the only posters in this thread that even attempted to process the other side's arguments fully. A thread with probably dozens of posters. Not a great hit rate, is it?

For a lot of the people the topic may change but the same petty personal bickering doesn't, the topic then becomes simply the current set dressing to a running battle rather than anything even important. It's just a venue to play out the same old shït yet again.

If you go into it with the expectation that you're going to be able change opinions you're only going to wind yourself up. The only healthy way to treat this sort of forum is as a place to say your piece and move on.

longballin

#350
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

armaghniac

Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

No, he said that was the case for some women he had met, are you calling these women liars?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

RedHand88

Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

I'm not religious and don't need the Catholic Church to tell me that abortion is morally wrong.

Syferus

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 13, 2018, 01:57:55 AM
Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

I'm not religious and don't need the Catholic Church to tell me that abortion is morally wrong.

..and yet it's not. I wonder would these big words be said to a woman who has had an abortion, or if the strength of your convictions only exsist in the abstract?

gallsman

Quote from: armaghniac on May 13, 2018, 12:44:35 AM
Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

No, he said that was the case for some women he had met, are you calling these women liars?

I would imagine that he's not, but is instead calling Monsignor Farrell a liar.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.
I wouldn't pay any need to what a bishop says

Itchy

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/knocking-on-doors-in-hostile-territories-what-its-like-to-canvass-for-the-referendum-when-local-voting-trends-are-against-you-36894899.html

Was reading the above with interest and good to hear that face to face the debate is being had and the Twitter bile is not being repeated. I also read with interest no FF or FG canvassing going on. Doesn't that tell you all you need to know about those spineless cowards, intent to sit in the fence and see how the wind blows. No solid conviction on this hugely important issue. I don't know how anyone could vote for people like that.

Rossfan

1- because the one issue no and yes campaigners won't be standing for election
2-kutehoorism.

I see it's 50/50 now leaving out the undecideds.
Syf and Sid doing a great job!!
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Tubberman

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 13, 2018, 01:57:55 AM
Quote from: longballin on May 12, 2018, 07:59:47 PM
Monsignor Dermot Farrell, Bishop of Ossory, says abortion after rape was far worse than rape for women who experienced both. The ignorance, arrogance and cruel attitude of some church leaders towards women is staggering and will drive thousands more people to vote YES.

I'm not religious and don't need the Catholic Church to tell me that abortion is morally wrong.

+1
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

gallsman

There is absolutely nothing immoral or wrong about allowing a woman autonomy over her own body.