Video of 2nd half frees against Wexford (v Laois)

[blewuporstuffed]

Appears so. Not sure why you think it's madness AZ, I know it won't achieve anything regarding the result but it does highlight refereeing issues.

Anyway, I've looked at it again and there are 13 frees so here's my take on them.

1. 50:50 - soft free
2. No free
3. Free but Laois no. 14 fouled first by slide tackling while a Wexford man's hands were down so should have been a free for Wexford.
4. Free, hand on back but a soft one to give.
5. Free, grabbing the Laois man's arm
6. Free, steps
7. No free
8. No free
9. Free, high tackle
10. No free
11. No free
12. No free
13. No free

By my reckoning that's 8 poor decisions, with 2 soft ones and one for over carrying. So of the 12 calls made on tackling the ref only got 4 right, of which 2 were soft. Is a 33.33% of right calls acceptable for an inter county referee?

Madness because this is an official county board making a video like this public. I can't see any benefit for Wexford in this.

I'm a bit less harsh on him  than you. I see two definitely wrong, 5 soft ones but can see why he did it, 1 which should have been a free the other way first.

So I see 3 mistakes out of 13
5 Subjective
5 no doubt frees./

Is that not one of the bigger issues, the fact that 5 out of 13 calls are subjective?
and that even after you guys watching them several times on replay there is still debate as to whether they were fouls or not.

Far to many of the rules are hugely subjective and thats what leads to so much refereeing inconsistancy

[screenexile]

Appears so. Not sure why you think it's madness AZ, I know it won't achieve anything regarding the result but it does highlight refereeing issues.

Anyway, I've looked at it again and there are 13 frees so here's my take on them.

1. 50:50 - soft free
2. No free
3. Free but Laois no. 14 fouled first by slide tackling while a Wexford man's hands were down so should have been a free for Wexford.
4. Free, hand on back but a soft one to give.
5. Free, grabbing the Laois man's arm
6. Free, steps
7. No free
8. No free
9. Free, high tackle
10. No free
11. No free
12. No free
13. No free

By my reckoning that's 8 poor decisions, with 2 soft ones and one for over carrying. So of the 12 calls made on tackling the ref only got 4 right, of which 2 were soft. Is a 33.33% of right calls acceptable for an inter county referee?

Madness because this is an official county board making a video like this public. I can't see any benefit for Wexford in this.

I'm a bit less harsh on him  than you. I see two definitely wrong, 5 soft ones but can see why he did it, 1 which should have been a free the other way first.

So I see 3 mistakes out of 13
5 Subjective
5 no doubt frees./

Is that not one of the bigger issues, the fact that 5 out of 13 calls are subjective?
and that even after you guys watching them several times on replay there is still debate as to whether they were fouls or not.

Far to many of the rules are hugely subjective and thats what leads to so much refereeing inconsistancy

]

The rules themselves are not subjective but more the application of them is... the tackle is clearly defined:

The Tackle

The Tackle is re-defined as:
"The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession."

[Zulu]

1. Free... never touched the ball
2. Free... had 3 slaps at the Laois player (2 from behind) and hit the ball on the 4th
3. Free... there were at least 3 frees in the lead up to it
4. Free... didn't touch the ball
5. Free... pulling back
6. Tight... I would have let that go. 8 steps though on the slow m
7. Nope... harsh!
8. Free... never got the ball and pulled him
9. Free... can be no arguments there
10. Not sure... again nobody put a glove on the ball when tackling but it didn't really stop the Laois player
11. Slightly harsh... still though Wexford tackling is abysmal without a hand on the ball again
12. Free... again very little attempt to actually play the ball
13. Free... no touch on the ball and a tackle from behind


Wexford need a few lessons in tackling before looking at the referee. The way I was taught to tackle was wait until the man plays the ball and then get a hand in ON THE BALL. Tackling from behind is a free and making a slap at anything other than the ball is a free. One of the reasons our game has turned into such a poor spectacle in recent times is the fact that teams don't have to tackle properly any more. Then when someone advocates clean tackling they're seen as 'taking the manliness out of the game'.

Jaysus Screen, I wouldn't like you reffing games my club are involved in  . I would accept that some of the frees I don't consider being frees probably are by a strict interpretation of the rule book but if that is the threshold of fouling then I think there are about 200 fouls per game. I'm not sure I'd agree that teams don't tackle properly anymore, in fact, I think they tackle far better now than they did on the past.

[blewuporstuffed]

Appears so. Not sure why you think it's madness AZ, I know it won't achieve anything regarding the result but it does highlight refereeing issues.

Anyway, I've looked at it again and there are 13 frees so here's my take on them.

1. 50:50 - soft free
2. No free
3. Free but Laois no. 14 fouled first by slide tackling while a Wexford man's hands were down so should have been a free for Wexford.
4. Free, hand on back but a soft one to give.
5. Free, grabbing the Laois man's arm
6. Free, steps
7. No free
8. No free
9. Free, high tackle
10. No free
11. No free
12. No free
13. No free

By my reckoning that's 8 poor decisions, with 2 soft ones and one for over carrying. So of the 12 calls made on tackling the ref only got 4 right, of which 2 were soft. Is a 33.33% of right calls acceptable for an inter county referee?

Madness because this is an official county board making a video like this public. I can't see any benefit for Wexford in this.

I'm a bit less harsh on him  than you. I see two definitely wrong, 5 soft ones but can see why he did it, 1 which should have been a free the other way first.

So I see 3 mistakes out of 13
5 Subjective
5 no doubt frees./

Is that not one of the bigger issues, the fact that 5 out of 13 calls are subjective?
and that even after you guys watching them several times on replay there is still debate as to whether they were fouls or not.

Far to many of the rules are hugely subjective and thats what leads to so much refereeing inconsistancy

]

The rules themselves are not subjective but more the application of them is... the tackle is clearly defined:

The Tackle

The Tackle is re-defined as:
"The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession."

yet in your assesment of the video you say

Tackling from behind is a free

when nowhere in the rules is that mentioned.


from my viewing of it, about 4 of those where frees (3,5,6,& 9) and the rest were very very soft.

[deiseach]

Wexford need a few lessons in tackling before looking at the referee. The way I was taught to tackle was wait until the man plays the ball and then get a hand in ON THE BALL. Tackling from behind is a free and making a slap at anything other than the ball is a free. One of the reasons our game has turned into such a poor spectacle in recent times is the fact that teams don't have to tackle properly any more. Then when someone advocates clean tackling they're seen as 'taking the manliness out of the game'.

The amount of slapping going on by the Wexford lads was ridiculous. If the Laois lads were doing the same and getting away with it, fair enough. But curiously enough we got about two minutes worth of game footage with which to make a judgement...

[Throw ball]

If Marty Duffy was refereeing both teams could do one of those videos!

[Mayo4Sam]

The standard of tackling by the wexford forwards is very poor, most of the those fouls were by forward.

[Collie Brolly]

Wexford Gaa be in big trouble if that is in the public domain officially from them.
Very bad form.

[Zulu]

Interesting that there is quite a bit of disagreement on which of those are actually fouls, even after repeat viewing. Just shows how difficult it is for refs.

[AZOffaly]

Exactly, and it's not the bare back riding that Wexford seem to believe they were on the end of. That's why I can see no good from this video being released.

[screenexile]

Appears so. Not sure why you think it's madness AZ, I know it won't achieve anything regarding the result but it does highlight refereeing issues.

Anyway, I've looked at it again and there are 13 frees so here's my take on them.

1. 50:50 - soft free
2. No free
3. Free but Laois no. 14 fouled first by slide tackling while a Wexford man's hands were down so should have been a free for Wexford.
4. Free, hand on back but a soft one to give.
5. Free, grabbing the Laois man's arm
6. Free, steps
7. No free
8. No free
9. Free, high tackle
10. No free
11. No free
12. No free
13. No free

By my reckoning that's 8 poor decisions, with 2 soft ones and one for over carrying. So of the 12 calls made on tackling the ref only got 4 right, of which 2 were soft. Is a 33.33% of right calls acceptable for an inter county referee?

Madness because this is an official county board making a video like this public. I can't see any benefit for Wexford in this.

I'm a bit less harsh on him  than you. I see two definitely wrong, 5 soft ones but can see why he did it, 1 which should have been a free the other way first.

So I see 3 mistakes out of 13
5 Subjective
5 no doubt frees./

Is that not one of the bigger issues, the fact that 5 out of 13 calls are subjective?
and that even after you guys watching them several times on replay there is still debate as to whether they were fouls or not.

Far to many of the rules are hugely subjective and thats what leads to so much refereeing inconsistancy

]

The rules themselves are not subjective but more the application of them is... the tackle is clearly defined:

The Tackle

The Tackle is re-defined as:
"The Tackle is a skill by which a player may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play. The tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. The tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact (such as punching, slapping, arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge) is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact can be a Fair Charge i.e. Shoulder-to-shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. More than one player can tackle the player in possession."

yet in your assesment of the video you say

Tackling from behind is a free

when nowhere in the rules is that mentioned.


from my viewing of it, about 4 of those where frees (3,5,6,& 9) and the rest were very very soft.

Tackling from behind is a free because you can't get a tackle on the ball!

[Jinxy]

Let me get this right. Wexford GAA, officially, have compiled a video of the frees given against them, and put it on you tube? Are they well in the head?

Did they show tackles they made which weren't frees and should have been, or frees against Laois which weren't frees?

This is madness.

Madness?



This



Is



WEXFORDDDD!!!

[screenexile]

1. Free... never touched the ball
2. Free... had 3 slaps at the Laois player (2 from behind) and hit the ball on the 4th
3. Free... there were at least 3 frees in the lead up to it
4. Free... didn't touch the ball
5. Free... pulling back
6. Tight... I would have let that go. 8 steps though on the slow m
7. Nope... harsh!
8. Free... never got the ball and pulled him
9. Free... can be no arguments there
10. Not sure... again nobody put a glove on the ball when tackling but it didn't really stop the Laois player
11. Slightly harsh... still though Wexford tackling is abysmal without a hand on the ball again
12. Free... again very little attempt to actually play the ball
13. Free... no touch on the ball and a tackle from behind


Wexford need a few lessons in tackling before looking at the referee. The way I was taught to tackle was wait until the man plays the ball and then get a hand in ON THE BALL. Tackling from behind is a free and making a slap at anything other than the ball is a free. One of the reasons our game has turned into such a poor spectacle in recent times is the fact that teams don't have to tackle properly any more. Then when someone advocates clean tackling they're seen as 'taking the manliness out of the game'.

Jaysus Screen, I wouldn't like you reffing games my club are involved in  . I would accept that some of the frees I don't consider being frees probably are by a strict interpretation of the rule book but if that is the threshold of fouling then I think there are about 200 fouls per game. I'm not sure I'd agree that teams don't tackle properly anymore, in fact, I think they tackle far better now than they did on the past.

Maybe I am being slightly OTT... in fairness if I had made some of those tackles I would feel aggrieved at them being given.

Let's take the 2nd free for example as you and AZ both thought it wasn't a free. The number 6 is clearly behind the forward yet his fist wraps around the forward and hits him on the chest (could be looked at as 2 frees for missing the ball and a closed fist tackle). He then strikes him twice around the midriff and the back missing the ball and then his 3rd tackle lands on the ball.

In my opinion the Laois forward has too much pace and has gotten past the no. 6, by the rules the no. 6's only option is to try and catch up with the forward and tackle the ball from the side when he solo's/bounces/handpasses/kicks the ball yet he effectively impedes the forwards run by foul means. I think it's highly cynical.

What are your or Az's views on it?

[Lone Shark]

Have a look and see what you think but I would hope referees are shown this footage and held accountable for their decisions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5AcIaY9LA

Am I mistaken or is that not what's done already, in the form of a referee's assessor and where possible, using footage?

I think Wexford are daft to go public with this, and it certainly won't endear them to referees in the future either. Bring it up in the committee rooms by all means, but to do so publicly reeks of sour grapes, whether they intended it or not.

[laoislad]

Ah sure don't these things even themselves out over the course of a season........
Sounds like sour strawberries from the yella bellies...