Joe Brolly

[Applesisapples]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

I doubt if Brolly's career would allow him enough time off to be an inter county manager or selector. M'lud wouldn't be terribly impressed, if Brolly had to scarper in the middle of a trial, as he had an U21 game to attend, or he had to prep for a trip to Croke Park.

That'll be the reason then!

Brolly's point is that being a good player and knowing what it takes to coach does not add up to being a good manager. Brolly is smart enough to know that coaching at a high level is not for him. It doesn't mean that he doesn't know what it takes.

[DuffleKing]

It's interesting that no one seems to know what his point is. Despite the conjecture that there's always a point.

[ck]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

I doubt if Brolly's career would allow him enough time off to be an inter county manager or selector. M'lud wouldn't be terribly impressed, if Brolly had to scarper in the middle of a trial, as he had an U21 game to attend, or he had to prep for a trip to Croke Park.

That'll be the reason then!

Brolly's point is that being a good player and knowing what it takes to coach does not add up to being a good manager. Brolly is smart enough to know that coaching at a high level is not for him. It doesn't mean that he doesn't know what it takes.

Yes agree. Although it's more than Brolly being smart enough to know that coaching isn't for him. No team in their right mind would let Brolly near them. He's probably the opposite end of the scale to McGeeney and neither make a good coach or manager.
Although at least Brolly would be a bit of craic. 

[Main Street]

Joe doesn't react well to being told that he was an awful waste of talent.
I enjoyed the article "Joe's revenge" and I agree with his theme but not the evidence he uses to pin down  McGeeney with.

My memory of Kildare in those games against Donegal and Down fits with DH's and DB's recollections, both longstanding and  knowledgeable supporters.
What about the SJ affair? can the single interpretation that Joe takes (deep down McGeeney thinks you're shite) explain it all?
I doubt it.

[BennyHarp]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

I doubt if Brolly's career would allow him enough time off to be an inter county manager or selector. M'lud wouldn't be terribly impressed, if Brolly had to scarper in the middle of a trial, as he had an U21 game to attend, or he had to prep for a trip to Croke Park.

That'll be the reason then!

Brolly's point is that being a good player and knowing what it takes to coach does not add up to being a good manager. Brolly is smart enough to know that coaching at a high level is not for him. It doesn't mean that he doesn't know what it takes.

Ah come on it's hardly the most original and insightfull point to make that a good player doesn't necessarily make a good manager. The comparison with Roy Keane is as obvious as you could get but enabled him to tell a funny story. It's an entertaining read, just like his analyse on RTE is entertaining but don't confuse entertainment for insight. Take note of his analysis this year and count the amount of times he contradicts himself. He makes his stuff up as he goes along and fair play to him he's carved out a decent niche for himself, but because he's not taken seriously as a pundit he compensates with controversy.  I have no love for McGeeney but have total respect for the man as a footballer and fair play to him for putting his neck on the line taking on his own county when he knew they weren't at a level which would see them challenge for top honours any time soon. I'd respect that more than someone who criticises from the sidelines.

[heffo]

I can't speak for Armagh but from a Kildare viewpoint I would say McGeeney did very well for about four out of the six years he was here. Things went downhill in 2012 when the team started to break apart which 'coincidentally' was around the same time that the Johnston saga started.

He took over a team that had barely won a game between 2004 and 2007. We were totally reliant on Johnny Doyle because Dermot Earley was perennially injured. He probably did take over at an opportune time because there were some good players breaking through back then from a few good u21 teams - the 2004 team won Leinster, 2005 lost the Leinster Final to Dublin after a replay, 2006 beat Dublin in the Leinster Championship and the 2008 team reached the All Ireland losing to Kerry in the final. He moulded that group of players into a competitive outfit between 2008 and 2011 and looking back he probably did get the best out of them.

Kildare hadn't reached a 1/4 Final before 2008 and they had only won three qualifiers since they were introduced in 2001 - (Donegal in 2001, Cavan in 2006, Roscommon in 2007). Between 2008 and 2013, Kildare reached the 1/4 Finals in all but the final year and they only lost one qualifier in those six years. People will say they didn't beat a big team or win a Leinster Championship which is correct but I would be hard pushed to pick out any match against a big team during that period which Kildare should have won. Generally they played well but just weren't good enough.

Joe Brolly says that "Kildare created the opportunity to win big games and then blew it," highlighting the Down 1/2 Final in 2010 and the Donegal 1/4 Final in 2011. Looking back at the Down game, Kildare were well behind for most of it after Benny Coulter's goal. They clawed their way back into it and almost snatched it at the death - they were never really in a position to win that game. The Donegal game was different but Joe is incorrect to say they were four points up in extra time. Unfortunately we never managed to get that fourth point which would have probably put us out of sight despite having a few opportunities. Each wide we kicked seemed to sap the energy out of them and give Donegal hope. It probably doesn't suit Joe's argument to mention that Donegal went three up with ten minutes to go in normal time after Christy Toye goaled and that Kildare scrapped out a draw kicking the last three points. Had Tomas O'Connor's goal early in the second half stood Kildare would have probably won comfortably. They had played for four consecutive weeks in the qualifiers and were shagged by the second period of extra time. The only other game during that period which Kildare lost narrowly was also in 2011 against Dublin. Again Kildare were never really in a position to win it and only found themselves close by sticking at it despite being outplayed for a lot of the game.

I was never as big a fan of McGeeney as some people within Kildare but it's hard to crab what he achieved with the team between 2008 and 2011. The Johnston circus was a serious error of judgement which turned a lot of GAA people in the county against him. 2012 and 2013 were turbulent but even after he was ousted in 2013 the players were still 100% behind him. Throughout his reign there were very few lads who opted out. Contrast that to 2014 and 2015 under Jason Ryan when there were players dropping like flies left right and centre. His team was fiercely committed and rarely failed to leave it all out there on the field.  He had his tactical limitations but I do know that the Kildare lads rated him very highly as a motivator and a man manager. Joe's article is wide of the mark in that respect. If he didn't believe in those players, he did a great job of conning them into thinking that he had belief in them.

Should have beaten Dublin in the 2009 Leinster Final. We scored 18 points all from play, Pat McEneaney was referee was so needless to say we couldn't buy a free, brutal starts in both halves as well didn't help. Dublin and their goals though, that's what Kildare teams fail to do, stop Dublin scoring goals..

I was a fan of McGeeney, turned Kildare into a proper championship team, got the most out those players, senior team costs were a factor in Kildare's financial woes buy only one among a host of issues. Suits people to spin that McGeeney was the cause.

Listened to Brolly's interview, he's just a bullshitter. He claimed journalists were afraid of McGeeney

You must be the first person who ever thought Kildare should've beaten 14 man Dublin that day.

Re: journalists being afraid of McGeeney, he asked John Fogarty outside at a press conference when he asked McGeeney to confirm/deny he'd approached Shane Supple to join up with Seanie.

[Main Street]

...........

Re: journalists being afraid of McGeeney, he asked John Fogarty outside at a press conference when he asked McGeeney to confirm/deny he'd approached Shane Supple to join up with Seanie.

Did you mean to write,  he invited John to step outside   as in "would you like to step outside and settle this?"

What an idiotic question to ask McGeeney, "would you confirm or deny ...... insert  some nonsense?"
Headline next day reads "McGeeny denies doing something which did not happen"

[tonto1888]

I can't speak for Armagh but from a Kildare viewpoint I would say McGeeney did very well for about four out of the six years he was here. Things went downhill in 2012 when the team started to break apart which 'coincidentally' was around the same time that the Johnston saga started.

He took over a team that had barely won a game between 2004 and 2007. We were totally reliant on Johnny Doyle because Dermot Earley was perennially injured. He probably did take over at an opportune time because there were some good players breaking through back then from a few good u21 teams - the 2004 team won Leinster, 2005 lost the Leinster Final to Dublin after a replay, 2006 beat Dublin in the Leinster Championship and the 2008 team reached the All Ireland losing to Kerry in the final. He moulded that group of players into a competitive outfit between 2008 and 2011 and looking back he probably did get the best out of them.

Kildare hadn't reached a 1/4 Final before 2008 and they had only won three qualifiers since they were introduced in 2001 - (Donegal in 2001, Cavan in 2006, Roscommon in 2007). Between 2008 and 2013, Kildare reached the 1/4 Finals in all but the final year and they only lost one qualifier in those six years. People will say they didn't beat a big team or win a Leinster Championship which is correct but I would be hard pushed to pick out any match against a big team during that period which Kildare should have won. Generally they played well but just weren't good enough.

Joe Brolly says that "Kildare created the opportunity to win big games and then blew it," highlighting the Down 1/2 Final in 2010 and the Donegal 1/4 Final in 2011. Looking back at the Down game, Kildare were well behind for most of it after Benny Coulter's goal. They clawed their way back into it and almost snatched it at the death - they were never really in a position to win that game. The Donegal game was different but Joe is incorrect to say they were four points up in extra time. Unfortunately we never managed to get that fourth point which would have probably put us out of sight despite having a few opportunities. Each wide we kicked seemed to sap the energy out of them and give Donegal hope. It probably doesn't suit Joe's argument to mention that Donegal went three up with ten minutes to go in normal time after Christy Toye goaled and that Kildare scrapped out a draw kicking the last three points. Had Tomas O'Connor's goal early in the second half stood Kildare would have probably won comfortably. They had played for four consecutive weeks in the qualifiers and were shagged by the second period of extra time. The only other game during that period which Kildare lost narrowly was also in 2011 against Dublin. Again Kildare were never really in a position to win it and only found themselves close by sticking at it despite being outplayed for a lot of the game.

I was never as big a fan of McGeeney as some people within Kildare but it's hard to crab what he achieved with the team between 2008 and 2011. The Johnston circus was a serious error of judgement which turned a lot of GAA people in the county against him. 2012 and 2013 were turbulent but even after he was ousted in 2013 the players were still 100% behind him. Throughout his reign there were very few lads who opted out. Contrast that to 2014 and 2015 under Jason Ryan when there were players dropping like flies left right and centre. His team was fiercely committed and rarely failed to leave it all out there on the field.  He had his tactical limitations but I do know that the Kildare lads rated him very highly as a motivator and a man manager. Joe's article is wide of the mark in that respect. If he didn't believe in those players, he did a great job of conning them into thinking that he had belief in them.

Should have beaten Dublin in the 2009 Leinster Final. We scored 18 points all from play, Pat McEneaney was referee was so needless to say we couldn't buy a free, brutal starts in both halves as well didn't help. Dublin and their goals though, that's what Kildare teams fail to do, stop Dublin scoring goals..

I was a fan of McGeeney, turned Kildare into a proper championship team, got the most out those players, senior team costs were a factor in Kildare's financial woes buy only one among a host of issues. Suits people to spin that McGeeney was the cause.

Listened to Brolly's interview, he's just a bullshitter. He claimed journalists were afraid of McGeeney

You must be the first person who ever thought Kildare should've beaten 14 man Dublin that day.

Re: journalists being afraid of McGeeney, he asked John Fogarty outside at a press conference when he asked McGeeney to confirm/deny he'd approached Shane Supple to join up with Seanie.

He's not the first person to think that and I'd support Dublin against anyone bar Armagh.

[tonto1888]

McGeeney seems to me to be doing an alright job in Armagh. But you can only work with what you've got. They were unquestionably unlucky to get relegated, in what was a very even division. Laois have actually got as much talent as anyone in that division (bar the tyronies maybe) but have the worst manager probably in any division, and unfortunately for Armagh they chose that day for it all to come together.

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great an alright job!

Who said he is doing a great job? Even the guy you quoted only said an alright job

Sorry I fixed it - my point still stands!

We were very unlucky to get relegated. As for the job he is doing I was very sceptical after Cavan but he does seem to have had a rethink regarding setting the team up and tactics. I will wait until the championship is over to judge.

[Beffs]

Ah come on it's hardly the most original and insightfull point to make that a good player doesn't necessarily make a good manager. The comparison with Roy Keane is as obvious as you could get but enabled him to tell a funny story. It's an entertaining read, just like his analyse on RTE is entertaining but don't confuse entertainment for insight. Take note of his analysis this year and count the amount of times he contradicts himself. He makes his stuff up as he goes along and fair play to him he's carved out a decent niche for himself, but because he's not taken seriously as a pundit he compensates with controversy.  I have no love for McGeeney but have total respect for the man as a footballer and fair play to him for putting his neck on the line taking on his own county when he knew they weren't at a level which would see them challenge for top honours any time soon. I'd respect that more than someone who criticises from the sidelines.

Is that not a part of the problem though? People are not able or willing, to separate out the player from the manager. They are two entirely different things, that require two entirely different skill sets to be successful. You can't presume someone has one, if they have the other. 

Look at how quick Kerry were to cut Daragh O'Se loose, when it was clear he was not taking their U21's in the direction they needed to go. They couldn't care less about how much of a legend he was as a player. Will Armagh be able to make some tough decisions, if need be?

[Aaron Boone]

McGeeney seems to me to be doing an alright job in Armagh. But you can only work with what you've got. They were unquestionably unlucky to get relegated, in what was a very even division. Laois have actually got as much talent as anyone in that division (bar the tyronies maybe) but have the worst manager probably in any division, and unfortunately for Armagh they chose that day for it all to come together.

I don't get this type of sentiment at all - Are people really saying a manager who has taken this team to division 3 is doing an okay job.

Also only work with what you have look at the last 10 years for Armagh teams:

2009 All Ireland Minor Winners (These lads should be peaking now at 24/25)
2007 U21 Ulster Champions (Some of these lads should still be making huge contributions 28-30)
Cross have 7 of the last 10 Ulster Club Championship titles

I just don't understand that a county with that behind them in recent times will be playing Longford and Sligo next year and people thinks McGeeneys doing a great an alright job!

Who said he is doing a great job? Even the guy you quoted only said an alright job

Sorry I fixed it - my point still stands!

We were very unlucky to get relegated. As for the job he is doing I was very sceptical after Cavan but he does seem to have had a rethink regarding setting the team up and tactics. I will wait until the championship is over to judge.

McGeeney getting a bad press but was unlucky to see his team relegated. A few months from now, he will be having the last laugh. Take out Brolly and he is very highly rated amongst the press pack.

[twohands!!!]

...........

Re: journalists being afraid of McGeeney, he asked John Fogarty outside at a press conference when he asked McGeeney to confirm/deny he'd approached Shane Supple to join up with Seanie.

Did you mean to write,  he invited John to step outside   as in "would you like to step outside and settle this?"

What an idiotic question to ask McGeeney, "would you confirm or deny ...... insert  some nonsense?"
Headline next day reads "McGeeny denies doing something which did not happen"

This was after Supple had come out and publicly said that McGeeney had approached him so it was very much a valid question for a journalist to ask.

[heffo]

...........

Re: journalists being afraid of McGeeney, he asked John Fogarty outside at a press conference when he asked McGeeney to confirm/deny he'd approached Shane Supple to join up with Seanie.

Did you mean to write,  he invited John to step outside   as in "would you like to step outside and settle this?"

What an idiotic question to ask McGeeney, "would you confirm or deny ...... insert  some nonsense?"
Headline next day reads "McGeeny denies doing something which did not happen"

I posted here about six months previous that Supple was approached.

Supple was interviewed by John Fogarty around February 2012 after he dropped off the Dublin panel and claimed he was approached by Kildare in 2011 but flatly rejected them.

Fogarty asked McGeeney to comment on Supple's claims and according to John Fogarty's article in the Examiner, McGeeney asked him to step outside to sort it out. It's hardly nonsense - I was responding to Dinny's earlier claim about journalists allegedly feeling/being intimidated by McGeeney..

[T Fearon]

Not often I find myself in agreement with Brolly but consider the facts.When Paddy O'Rourke took Over Armagh in 09 it was on the back of a disastrous season.He immediately won Div 2 of the NFL and took Armagh to round 4 of the qualifiers losing by three points to Dublin.

In Kieran Mc Geeney's first season,after losing by a point in the AI Qtr Final the previous season,we struggled to a lucky promotion from the mighty Div 3 and had a disastrous championship and have now suffered relegation back to Div 3 (which was not the result of bad luck,as some would have you believe,but the result of a home defeat by Laois and a mauling in Cavan,neither of which are in any way excusable)

Go figure

[twohands!!!]

Since McGeeney took over between league and championship Armagh have played 17 games winning 9, drawing 2 and losing 6

The teams they beat were
Clare
Derry
Fermanagh (twice)
Limerick
Louth
Tipperary
Wexford
Wicklow

The teams they lost to were
Cavan
Donegal
Galway
Laois
Meath
Sligo

They teams they drew with were
Galway
Fermanagh

Looking at that they look every inch a Division 3 side.