Joe Brolly

[Il Bomber Destro]

Brolly on Cooper today:

"when the heat is turned up, he disappears."

"In adversity, he fails."

"If Philly McMahon had tried that stuff with wee Peter (Canavan) he would have been waking up next morning with a very sore face and probably about 1-03 scored off him."

Is there a reason you're repeatedly bringing this up? You don't feel Cooper is amongst the greats, many would disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion, as is Brolly. However, you've made this point already as has Brolly so it's pointless doing so over and over again.

I'd like people to stop denying the holocaust and saying Cooper is a great when the evidence points other ways. Great players are the ones who do it when it really really matters, Cooper has throughout his career been shown to be a flat track bully but is given some revered and untouchable status by the GAA press.

Brolly is the only journalist to tackle this portrayal and was met with extreme hostility for expressing it. Time has vindicated him even further.

It's opinions and that's all your's is, or perish the thought, even Joe's. Lots of people view Cooper a better player than you do so perhaps it's time you just left it at that?

There's a body of evidence there that shows Cooper doesn't deliver when the pressure is on. Cooper may just be the greatest flat track bully ever but he's a good bit off a real great.

You are very selective in what you call pressure though because there's a large body of evidence to suggest he does produce in pressure situations,nothing more high pressure than an All Ireland final and he's been the star in them. But just ignore that as it doesn't fit your narrative.

And Cooper has now lost more than he has won.

He's only 1 player, an unbelievably good 1 but still only 1 player,anyway i don't know why i even bothered replying here again, i know you've your mind made up and i've mine made up so i'll leave it at that.

He's one player regarded as one of the greatest of all times. Generally I'd judge players of that reputation under those particular parameters and Cooper falls a long way short.

No he doesn't, you're talking through your ass.

He does. I disagree with a lot of what Brolly says but he is bang on the money when it comes to Cooper. It's easy to look good when the opposition allow you to but when things have gone to the melting pot Cooper has been found wanting, time after time after time again.

When you're in bother you look to your big players to dig you out of a hole and not only is Gooch regarded as one of Kerry's best or his generation's best but he is also talked about in all time greatness. Great players don't disappear like Cooper does when his team need him, consistently.

Great players do it when it really matters, Cooper is grand when things are going well and when he is allowed play or up against poor opposition but not when his team need him when in bother. Great players, great forwards can feed off the scraps. Cooper can't.

[lenny]

Brolly on Cooper today:

"when the heat is turned up, he disappears."

"In adversity, he fails."

"If Philly McMahon had tried that stuff with wee Peter (Canavan) he would have been waking up next morning with a very sore face and probably about 1-03 scored off him."

Is there a reason you're repeatedly bringing this up? You don't feel Cooper is amongst the greats, many would disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion, as is Brolly. However, you've made this point already as has Brolly so it's pointless doing so over and over again.

I'd like people to stop denying the holocaust and saying Cooper is a great when the evidence points other ways. Great players are the ones who do it when it really really matters, Cooper has throughout his career been shown to be a flat track bully but is given some revered and untouchable status by the GAA press.

Brolly is the only journalist to tackle this portrayal and was met with extreme hostility for expressing it. Time has vindicated him even further.

It's opinions and that's all your's is, or perish the thought, even Joe's. Lots of people view Cooper a better player than you do so perhaps it's time you just left it at that?

There's a body of evidence there that shows Cooper doesn't deliver when the pressure is on. Cooper may just be the greatest flat track bully ever but he's a good bit off a real great.

You are very selective in what you call pressure though because there's a large body of evidence to suggest he does produce in pressure situations,nothing more high pressure than an All Ireland final and he's been the star in them. But just ignore that as it doesn't fit your narrative.

And Cooper has now lost more than he has won.

He's only 1 player, an unbelievably good 1 but still only 1 player,anyway i don't know why i even bothered replying here again, i know you've your mind made up and i've mine made up so i'll leave it at that.

He's one player regarded as one of the greatest of all times. Generally I'd judge players of that reputation under those particular parameters and Cooper falls a long way short.

No he doesn't, you're talking through your ass.

He does. I disagree with a lot of what Brolly says but he is bang on the money when it comes to Cooper. It's easy to look good when the opposition allow you to but when things have gone to the melting pot Cooper has been found wanting, time after time after time again.

When you're in bother you look to your big players to dig you out of a hole and not only is Gooch regarded as one of Kerry's best or his generation's best but he is also talked about in all time greatness. Great players don't disappear like Cooper does when his team need him, consistently.

Great players do it when it really matters, Cooper is grand when things are going well and when he is allowed play or up against poor opposition but not when his team need him when in bother. Great players, great forwards can feed off the scraps. Cooper can't.

yawn, yawn, yawn

[Ranga]

Cooper is class, Brolly is not.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Is Bomber Joe?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

[lenny]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

[tonto1888]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

so every final he has been in and lost is his fault?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

so every final he has been in and lost is his fault?

I didn't say that. He underperformed in more finals than he has performed, even more so when you judge him under the parameters of a great player or an all time great.

[westbound]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

What is your definition of failure?

Not scoring? (he only failed to score in one final)
Not scoring from play? (he only failed to score from play in two finals (out of 9!) And one of those finals, kerry won!)
Not scoring enough? (He has scored 2 points or less in only 2 finals. In the other 7 finals he has played in he has scored at least 5 points (1-2))
Not scoring enough when kerry lose? (In the 5 losing finals he has scored 0-2 (as a 19yr old), 0-5, 0-6, 1-3 and 0-0(on returning from cruciate injury)).
Not scoring enough from play? (in 3 of the 5 finals he has lost he has scored at least 0-3 from play)

So i'm curious as to what exactly you would have wanted him to do to avoid being the 'failure' you claim him to be!

I don't think anyone is denying that he has never played a bad match, and you are entitled to your opinion the same way everyone else is, but i completely disagree with you (and I'm entitled to my opinion too!)

[Ranga]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

What is your definition of failure?

Not scoring? (he only failed to score in one final)
Not scoring from play? (he only failed to score from play in two finals (out of 9!) And one of those finals, kerry won!)
Not scoring enough? (He has scored 2 points or less in only 2 finals. In the other 7 finals he has played in he has scored at least 5 points (1-2))
Not scoring enough when kerry lose? (In the 5 losing finals he has scored 0-2 (as a 19yr old), 0-5, 0-6, 1-3 and 0-0(on returning from cruciate injury)).
Not scoring enough from play? (in 3 of the 5 finals he has lost he has scored at least 0-3 from play)

So i'm curious as to what exactly you would have wanted him to do to avoid being the 'failure' you claim him to be!

I don't think anyone is denying that he has never played a bad match, and you are entitled to your opinion the same way everyone else is, but i completely disagree with you (and I'm entitled to my opinion too!)

Game, set and match.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

What is your definition of failure?

Not scoring? (he only failed to score in one final)
Not scoring from play? (he only failed to score from play in two finals (out of 9!) And one of those finals, kerry won!)
Not scoring enough? (He has scored 2 points or less in only 2 finals. In the other 7 finals he has played in he has scored at least 5 points (1-2))
Not scoring enough when kerry lose? (In the 5 losing finals he has scored 0-2 (as a 19yr old), 0-5, 0-6, 1-3 and 0-0(on returning from cruciate injury)).
Not scoring enough from play? (in 3 of the 5 finals he has lost he has scored at least 0-3 from play)

So i'm curious as to what exactly you would have wanted him to do to avoid being the 'failure' you claim him to be!

I don't think anyone is denying that he has never played a bad match, and you are entitled to your opinion the same way everyone else is, but i completely disagree with you (and I'm entitled to my opinion too!)

Be the best or one of the top performers on the pitch but time and time again in big games when they really need him he doesn't want to know about it.

[AZOffaly]

Would you stop being ridiculous. 'doesn't want to know'. For jaysus sake.

[omaghjoe]

Regarding his matches against Tyrone at least:

03 - few flashes off brilliance but was young and Kerry were over ran that day
05 - played very well.
08 - few flashes off brilliance, looked to have the beating of the defenders  but bizarrely not used properly due to Kerry's insistence on the twin tower route. Where was Donaghy that day? If he is not a bottler

Would also have to look at '13 against Dublin when the pressure was on and he was brilliant

Just cos he was on the losing team doesnt equate to him going missing, class player, great attitude. Total legend!

Brolly's a slabber, he likes to feed his ego and prove himself right. Unfortunately to prove himself right he has to ignore that facts that prove him wrong.

[westbound]

Can we all agree that Cooper is a class bottler,  the greatest bottler to ever play the game? Seems like a fair compromise.

You can agree to that. The rest of us will agree that he is one of the best forwards in the modern era, a great forward who has lit up and won many big games.

Or a player who has failed in more All Ireland finals than he has excelled in.

What is your definition of failure?

Not scoring? (he only failed to score in one final)
Not scoring from play? (he only failed to score from play in two finals (out of 9!) And one of those finals, kerry won!)
Not scoring enough? (He has scored 2 points or less in only 2 finals. In the other 7 finals he has played in he has scored at least 5 points (1-2))
Not scoring enough when kerry lose? (In the 5 losing finals he has scored 0-2 (as a 19yr old), 0-5, 0-6, 1-3 and 0-0(on returning from cruciate injury)).
Not scoring enough from play? (in 3 of the 5 finals he has lost he has scored at least 0-3 from play)

So i'm curious as to what exactly you would have wanted him to do to avoid being the 'failure' you claim him to be!

I don't think anyone is denying that he has never played a bad match, and you are entitled to your opinion the same way everyone else is, but i completely disagree with you (and I'm entitled to my opinion too!)

Be the best or one of the top performers on the pitch but time and time again in big games when they really need him he doesn't want to know about it.

Your argument is getting more and more ridiculous with each post.

Gooch was top scorer from play for kerry in 3 of the 5 finals they lost!