Joe Brolly

[INDIANA]

A bit touchy there Zulu. Scores are what count, and if more scores are actually being scored each game, then be careful what you actually wish for; for it doesn't matter how massed the defensive ranks are, if they're being breached

There's the whiff of elitism about all of this.

Just the stench of "well if you can't beat them, join them change the rules"

Tyrone won an all-ireland in...................................................2008. That's right the current system they've been using for 3 years has been so successful. Laughable.

All you are is a better form of a loser like so many counties playing this mind numbing version of the game where teams run into each other for 60 mins until some poor soul makes the game changing mistake to allow the other side to win.

How in God's name anyone can stand over this as something appealing is beyond me.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Not touchy at all FoSB but if you want to discuss this and get an appreciation of where I'm coming from (and thousands of others) then perhaps you shouldn't dismiss it flippantly.

How is this elitism? It's footballing strongholds and traditional powerhouses that are playing it. If this was Antrim or Clare doing it you might have a point but Tyrone aren't that or Donegal, Derry, Kerry, for that matter.

Scores are not what count, they are part of the game just like marking, blocking, kick passing, high fielding dummy solos, beating a defender with pace control and agility. Lots of these skills are eroded by massed defences and thus the game suffers. I do believe the blanket defences are a busted flush but they are very effective for keeping a score down so if you do that a lucky break (like Kerry last year) can win you the game so it's worth sticking with for when you come up against a better team.

I don't know how anyone that is a supporter of football can not be concerned about the game and wouldn't, at least, consider proposals to address it. I've never been less excited by the championship and I'm a bit concerned by what we'll see next weekend and many of the weekends after.

Just the stench of "well if you can't beat them, join them change the rules"

Nobody wins if the game becomes unwatchable.

So, and this is what really counts, are GAA games' attendances markedly down, or down at all even? Are subscriptions suffering? To heed the doom-merchants  (and please, do not be taking a cue from Brolly, or any other megalomaniac mouthpieces) you'd swear gate-receipts were at an all time low, and TV/online audiences on their knees.

Anecdotal is not evidential, and all I've seen on this thread so far is anecdotal.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

[Itchy]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

[stew]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

Bullshit, Armagh V Donegal in the AIQF was compelling viewing as far as I am concerned, the bottom line is that managers are sompelled to get the best out of their charges and use whatever tactics necessary to get the job done, Donegal can have 15 men behind the ball and win games, they have proven it so but to me there is a certain majesty in tremendous defensive play, look at what we accomplished in the second half against Kerry in 02, defensively we were sublime, I think some on here buy into what the media sells in relation to how negative the pundits are about our game, I think the championship produces fabulous games every year and that the sport is healthy and by the way, why are Donegal capable of beating everyone else and why are the aristocratic teams incapable of beating them when it matters?

[Zulu]

Scores are not what count

What? They are the only thing that that count to anyone looking for a victory.

Do you always take a small part of a post and refer to it out of context?

So, and this is what really counts, are GAA games' attendances markedly down, or down at all even? Are subscriptions suffering? To heed the doom-merchants  (and please, do not be taking a cue from Brolly, or any other megalomaniac mouthpieces) you'd swear gate-receipts were at an all time low, and TV/online audiences on their knees.

Anecdotal is not evidential, and all I've seen on this thread so far is anecdotal.

That's a bizarre post FoSB. We can see with our own eyes that football is producing some very poor spectacles due to the defensive tactics being employed and the counter tactics to them.

And please don't suggest we are being led by media pundits, just because you agree with someone on TV doesn't mean you are aping them. I don't know what TV figures are like compared to previous years but hurling brought in more in gate receipts last year for the first time ever.

I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for or why you feel scoring averages proves something. Are you suggesting that because scoring averages are up (where did you see this btw?) and attendances aren't markedly down that everyone is happy with how the game is being played?

[Zulu]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

Bullshit, Armagh V Donegal in the AIQF was compelling viewing as far as I am concerned, the bottom line is that managers are sompelled to get the best out of their charges and use whatever tactics necessary to get the job done, Donegal can have 15 men behind the ball and win games, they have proven it so but to me there is a certain majesty in tremendous defensive play, look at what we accomplished in the second half against Kerry in 02, defensively we were sublime, I think some on here buy into what the media sells in relation to how negative the pundits are about our game, I think the championship produces fabulous games every year and that the sport is healthy and by the way, why are Donegal capable of beating everyone else and why are the aristocratic teams incapable of beating them when it matters?

You call someone's post bullshit and then use one knockout game involving your own county as evidence of this??? 

The bit in bold is a ridiculous comment - Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry have all beaten Donegal when it matters, do any of these qualify as aristocrats?

Nobody wants to do away with defending but getting everyone back is not good defending it's a bog basic defensive tactic that means players don't need to be good defenders but do need to avoid giving away handy frees.

[INDIANA]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

Bullshit, Armagh V Donegal in the AIQF was compelling viewing as far as I am concerned, the bottom line is that managers are sompelled to get the best out of their charges and use whatever tactics necessary to get the job done, Donegal can have 15 men behind the ball and win games, they have proven it so but to me there is a certain majesty in tremendous defensive play, look at what we accomplished in the second half against Kerry in 02, defensively we were sublime, I think some on here buy into what the media sells in relation to how negative the pundits are about our game, I think the championship produces fabulous games every year and that the sport is healthy and by the way, why are Donegal capable of beating everyone else and why are the aristocratic teams incapable of beating them when it matters?

Did I see 2002 mentioned? What an absolutely ridiculous argument that anything 12 years ago is relevant in the current 13 man behind the ball system. Utter conclusive proof that the Northern brigade are only protecting their own agenda when it comes to this.

[BennyHarp]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

Bullshit, Armagh V Donegal in the AIQF was compelling viewing as far as I am concerned, the bottom line is that managers are sompelled to get the best out of their charges and use whatever tactics necessary to get the job done, Donegal can have 15 men behind the ball and win games, they have proven it so but to me there is a certain majesty in tremendous defensive play, look at what we accomplished in the second half against Kerry in 02, defensively we were sublime, I think some on here buy into what the media sells in relation to how negative the pundits are about our game, I think the championship produces fabulous games every year and that the sport is healthy and by the way, why are Donegal capable of beating everyone else and why are the aristocratic teams incapable of beating them when it matters?

You call someone's post bullshit and then use one knockout game involving your own county as evidence of this??? 

The bit in bold is a ridiculous comment - Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry have all beaten Donegal when it matters, do any of these qualify as aristocrats?

Nobody wants to do away with defending but getting everyone back is not good defending it's a bog basic defensive tactic that means players don't need to be good defenders but do need to avoid giving away handy frees.

To be fair, two all Ireland semi finals were great contests too. The current rules can create good games.

On reflection though, I think there may be a bit of merit in Brollys plan, but please, please trial these changes in a competitive competition. The Sigerson would be perfect as it's very competitive and is generally at the cutting edge of tactical analysis. They'd flush out any flaws relatively quickly.

In general though my worries on this debate remind me of the episode of Father Ted were they had a dent in car they were going to raffle. http://youtu.be/8mdwAkWvWMw

[Throw ball]

Any sport would be concerned. Soccer would be concerned if every game ended 1 nil. Rugby would be concerned if there were no tries in a game and GAA supporters are concerned at the way things are now

Your post would make sense if you could actually back it up with facts. SCORING AVERAGES are on the up!

Otherwise it's just nonsense.

Entertainment is on the way down. Are you entertained by the crap that passes for football. It can be ok in div 1 but in the other 3 leagues it is dire as everyone is now along the monster Tyrone and Donegal created. The vast majority know this.

Bullshit, Armagh V Donegal in the AIQF was compelling viewing as far as I am concerned, the bottom line is that managers are sompelled to get the best out of their charges and use whatever tactics necessary to get the job done, Donegal can have 15 men behind the ball and win games, they have proven it so but to me there is a certain majesty in tremendous defensive play, look at what we accomplished in the second half against Kerry in 02, defensively we were sublime, I think some on here buy into what the media sells in relation to how negative the pundits are about our game, I think the championship produces fabulous games every year and that the sport is healthy and by the way, why are Donegal capable of beating everyone else and why are the aristocratic teams incapable of beating them when it matters?

Did I see 2002 mentioned? What an absolutely ridiculous argument that anything 12 years ago is relevant in the current 13 man behind the ball system. Utter conclusive proof that the Northern brigade are only protecting their own agenda when it comes to this.

A bit stereotyping there. I am from the same county - maybe even the same club - as Stew and hate the 'everyone behind the ball' game. I do, however like to see good defensive play. As much as the over reliance on the blanket defence is an eye sore the 'buying' of frees by forwards is a bigger one. I also remember going to watch Cork and Galway and Mayo and Kerry in Croke Park about 10 years ago. There was hardly a tackle and I did not find it very entertaining. What Brolly is proposing I consider worth looking at as it might bring about the best of all parts of the game without too much tinkering.

I should also add that Armagh kicked the ball more than most teams in last year's championship.

[Zulu]

The semi finals were very good but largely because 3 of the teams didn't play a blanket defence. But Itchy is broadly correct as entertainment value is down and that's due to the defensive tactics employed by an increasing number of teams.

Again, I agree it should be trialled as should any proposal.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

So, and this is what really counts, are GAA games' attendances markedly down, or down at all even? Are subscriptions suffering? To heed the doom-merchants  (and please, do not be taking a cue from Brolly, or any other megalomaniac mouthpieces) you'd swear gate-receipts were at an all time low, and TV/online audiences on their knees.

Anecdotal is not evidential, and all I've seen on this thread so far is anecdotal.

That's a bizarre post FoSB. We can see with our own eyes that football is producing some very poor spectacles due to the defensive tactics being employed and the counter tactics to them.

And please don't suggest we are being led by media pundits, just because you agree with someone on TV doesn't mean you are aping them. I don't know what TV figures are like compared to previous years but hurling brought in more in gate receipts last year for the first time ever.

I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for or why you feel scoring averages proves something. Are you suggesting that because scoring averages are up (where did you see this btw?) and attendances aren't markedly down that everyone is happy with how the game is being played?

Bizarre, really? So on what other criterion would you gauge the current viability of the games? All you are offering here is hearsay, and that ain't going to cut anything, much less rule changes.

Here are the official STATISTICS for 2013 (2014 demonstrated a similar trend), where the current rules were already in place:

2013 stats

[INDIANA]

So, and this is what really counts, are GAA games' attendances markedly down, or down at all even? Are subscriptions suffering? To heed the doom-merchants  (and please, do not be taking a cue from Brolly, or any other megalomaniac mouthpieces) you'd swear gate-receipts were at an all time low, and TV/online audiences on their knees.

Anecdotal is not evidential, and all I've seen on this thread so far is anecdotal.

That's a bizarre post FoSB. We can see with our own eyes that football is producing some very poor spectacles due to the defensive tactics being employed and the counter tactics to them.

And please don't suggest we are being led by media pundits, just because you agree with someone on TV doesn't mean you are aping them. I don't know what TV figures are like compared to previous years but hurling brought in more in gate receipts last year for the first time ever.

I'm not sure what evidence you're looking for or why you feel scoring averages proves something. Are you suggesting that because scoring averages are up (where did you see this btw?) and attendances aren't markedly down that everyone is happy with how the game is being played?

Bizarre, really? So on what other criterion would you gauge the current viability of the games? All you are offering here is hearsay, and that ain't going to cut anything, much less rule changes.

Here are the official STATISTICS for 2013 (2014 demonstrated a similar trend), where the current rules were already in place:

2013 stats

Encapsulates nothing. Put up the stats for handpasses versus kickpasses if you dare

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Encapsulates nothing. Put up the stats for handpasses versus kickpasses if you dare

Now, that's bizarre!

So what you're actually saying is: participation in the games counts for nothing, attendances at the games counts for nothing, but how the games adhere to my template of 'how they should be played' is the overarching factor, trumping everything else! 

Get help FFS!

[Zulu]

Yes bizarre. Nobody is offering hearsay but their opinion based on the games they see. If a lot of football supporters are unhappy with what they see then there is a problem. To use attendances as evidence of people's views on the games is clearly nonsense. If Dublin and Mayo became useless and Cork and Leitrim dominant teams average attendances would go down but what would that prove about our games? Like many others I'll sit down to watch Donegal Tyrone next weekend but if they play as I fear they will does that mean I'm happy with how they played because I watched it?

Are you happy with football being played as Kerry and Donegal did in the All Ireland final?