Joe Brolly

[screenexile]

Just to put a bit of perspective on the Nordie bashing!!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/dig-deeper-to-see-true-reasons-for-defensive-malaise-in-gaelic-football-323000.html

PADDY HEANEY: Dig deeper to see true reasons for defensive malaise in Gaelic football

Back in the day when I believed that politics could improve the lot of the common man, I used to be enthralled by the British general election, writes Paddy Heaney.


Neil Kinnock versus Maggie Thatcher; Labour versus Conservative, or, as I saw it: The forces of good versus the forces of evil.

It was gripping stuff and I dreamed of a victory for the red rose.

However, those aspirations were always scuppered by a particular feature of the British electorate, which used to leave me boiling with anger. Maggie won because a significant percentage of working class people in Britain routinely voted for the Conservative Party.

I could never get my head around that phenomenon until I read the autobiography of the comedian, Frank Skinner (real name: Christopher Collins).

Skinner's father was a factory worker and a semi-professional footballer from Co Durham. A bread-and-butter northerner, John Collins could have been a poster boy for the working class. Yet, John Collins voted Tory all his life.

Skinner's father had a reason for his voting behaviour. He believed that the public school boys of Eton and Harrow were born, bred and educated to make decisions which were beyond the compass of the ordinary man.

John Collins reckoned that the Tories should be put in charge, because that's exactly what they were raised to do.

Frank Skinner's autobiography helped me to understand a mindset that had baffled me for years. More recently, it made me realise that it's not just the British who believe in class hierarchy.

The same thinking exists in the GAA. For Kerry and Dublin, read Eton and Harrow. With their combined tally of 61 All-Ireland titles, it could be said that these two counties form the ruling classes of Gaelic football.

It would also appear that certain sections of the Irish population get distinctly uncomfortable when the peasants gain power. During the past 25 years, the peasants have been the upstarts from Ulster that dared to win maiden All-Ireland titles.

It needs to be stressed that when an Ulster team made a breakthrough, the initial success was roundly celebrated. The novelty was welcomed.

However, the collective celebrations never lasted too long. Once any Ulster team threatens to rise above their station, there is a quiet desire for them to be put back in their box.

This serf-like reverence for Dublin and Kerry becomes abundantly obvious whenever there is any debate concerning the state of Gaelic football.

Take the much-documented match between Dublin and Derry in Croke Park. On the night of the game, an online report on Hogan Stand stated that: "With 19,224 spectators struggling to stay awake, the northerners played with 14 men behind the ball at all times as the Leinster champions tried in vain to find the key to unlock their mass rearguard action."

That observation would give the impression that Derry pulled every man into defence and held off a Dublin team that attacked them in droves.

That didn't happen, though. Dublin played exactly the same way as Derry. They set up the same defensive screen and exercised the same caution as their opponents.

Yet, for some commentators, there was only team to blame for the spectacle which unfolded at HQ.

"Last week's Dublin-Derry match was pretty much the last word in shit. And that's because the shit was where Derry wanted to drag the game," wrote Eamon Sweeney in the Sunday Independent.

"Harsh words," as Jackie Fullerton would say. As an avid soccer fan, Sweeney's willingness to identify Derry as the arch-villains is surprising.

Let's put the game in context. Dublin have won 24 All-Ireland titles to Derry's solitary victory in 1993.

Dublin were playing at home in front of nearly 20,000 supporters. In their last contest at the same venue, the Dubs hammered Derry by 3-19 to 1-10. To avoid a similar bloodbath, Derry manager Brian McIver decided to park the bus.

When Premier League teams visit Old Trafford, they routinely defend with 11 men. It's par for the course. It doesn't generate any outcry.

However, imagine the reaction if Manchester United played with 11 men behind the ball during a home game against Hull. There would be mutiny.

Yet, this is exactly what Jim Gavin did when a Derry side fighting relegation came to Dublin. Despite the fact that Dublin were just as defensive as Derry, Gavin was able to peddle the line that his team were the hapless victims of northern intransigence.

"We have a few things to work on, but we played a very defensive team," said Gavin afterwards.

It's scarcely believable. Dublin defend with 14 men. Then the Dublin manager claims the opposition are "defensive", and fawning commentators continue to believe that the Dubs are the custodians of champagne football.

Jim Gavin likes to portray Dublin as paragons of attacking football and he was trumpeting that message after Sunday's 11-point win over Monaghan.

"We try to play an expansive game. Teams who have employed a different defensive system have been very, very successful and that's the way it is," said the Dublin manager.

There is only one problem with Gavin's statement. It's not entirely accurate. As a newcomer to Twitter (@HeaneyPaddy), I posted a couple of photographs from the game in Clones. In one of the pictures, when Monaghan were on the attack, Dublin had 14 players inside their own half of the field. Dublin were leading by five points at the time. I believe this is what Mr Sweeney would call: "The last word in shit."

Yet, Ireland after his team defended with 14 men when leading by five points.

Nevertheless, no-one blinked an eye when Gavin made this statement on Sunday. When I pointed out that Dublin had repeatedly defended with a dozen players, Gavin replied: "They were just following their men. If Monaghan players attack they have to be followed... I don't think you could suggest that we play a defensive game, but I certainly expect my players to follow their opposing markers when they go into our half and that's what we did."

Again, Gavin's claim doesn't withstand scrutiny. Look at the photograph. Five Monaghan players are standing in splendid isolation because their markers have joined Dublin's defensive scrum.

Every time Monaghan got the ball into the scoring zone, Dublin defended in the same manner. Nearly every player in the team retreated into one half of the field.

Yet, any neutral observer listening to the debate surrounding the emphasis being placed on defensive football would quickly leap to the conclusion that it's a strategy mainly employed by northern teams. Dublin are above that sort of thing.

As for Kerry, on Sunday they committed 34 fouls to Tyrone's 14. A one-off occurrence? When the All-Ireland champions visited Celtic Park in February, they committed almost three times as many fouls as Derry in the first half (21-8). At full-time the foul count read: Kerry 32 Derry 18.

However, it is Ulster teams that are supposed to be the main perpetrators of negative tactics. Again, there can be a stark contrast between perceptions and facts.

Still, it is good that a debate is taking place about the ultra-negative game plans dominating Gaelic football.

However, the debate needs to centre on what is actually happening. It should be fuelled by evidence and not by the misguided notions of men behind keyboards who still can't see that the emperor's team is defending with 14 players.

Follow Paddy Heaney on twitter: @HeaneyPaddy

[imtommygunn]

If the guy was on the Tyrone team then he probably was decent enough Indiana. Hand passing sometimes happens due to systems etc.

I don't go to too many live games but make the odd one. One of the best performances I've seen was Donegal against Kerry in 2012. They didn't make that many kick passes but the speed they broke at was phenomenal to watch. I would bet if you viewed that game you viewed it very differently...

From what I read of what you write I think you have a "traditional" view of how the game should be played and don't like deviating from that hence trying to suggest all these rule changes to bring it back to your traditional approach.

1-15 don't need to be superb kick passers either. In my view CHB, CHF and at least one of two midfielders should be your key passers. (Kick passing was actually the most under rated of Dara O'Se's qualies in my view and something that stodd him out from just being a great ball winner to a great player). Dublin have evolved it so the goalie is a key person too. (Well actually Cluxton)

Why , for example, would a corner back need to be a great kick passer?

[Keyser soze]

Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works?

Yes. Repeatedly[/b]

Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it?

No

Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route?

Yes. Its a single point but he has repeated it often enough

If you read or listen to the man you would know this. Don't let that stop you

Post up Brolly's analysis of the packed defence there when you get a chance - i'd love to read it.

In my experience, Brolly hasn't the first breeze about the game, how gameplans have developed and why. He has no understanding watching a game what teams are trying to achieve - that's patently obvious from his contributions during RTE broadcasts.

The advent of twitter has given a platform and even credibility to people who should have no input into proposing rule changes within the GAA. Given the demand for "live" news through that and other mediums now, media outlets are only too happy to make a headline out of some dramatic "look at me" quote from mediocre past players who usually have not coached at any significant level.

Reputation in my own county would place the new chairman of the rules advisory group, or whatever they're calling them this time round, at the bottom of the pile if you were nominating someone to systematically and coherently analyse the need for rule changes. Of course the mandating of this committee at all implies the need for rule changes and preordains that there will be proposals brought forward. Not a great starting point.

If there must be another review of the playing rules, and I object strongly to that pretense, then who are the best people to conduct the review?

Administrators? from what level?
managers? from what level?
coaches? from what level?
players? from what level?
non playing members?
the press / media?
former players? from what level?
spectators?

Current coaches certainly not. They've all adopted the herd mentality of abdicating their responsibilities of coaching teams instead to play like a bunch of gorillas on day release from Dublin Zoo. Throw a few bananas in a team's own half and watch their all congregate there.

Its not rocket science how to fix it. You make it sound like nuclear physics. Because you want it to be so complicated nobody will do anything about it.

The preserve of county teams currently is the handpass. You limit the handpass.

You force teams to kick the ball and contest possession man to man. Even soccer and rugby have a contest for posession. GAA largely doesn't anymore. If I pass the ball back in soccer the keeper will have to kick it long 9 times out of 10- ie a contest for possession. If I gather the ball in rugby outside the 22 I'll have to run it through a wall or kick it high to regather- in the latter case a contest for possession.

Contrast that to Gaelic football. everyone stands in their own half because keepers are allowed to kick it short and teams are also allowed multiple 2 yards hand passes all the way up until somebody fouls them.

It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

So let's tailor the game so the only way it can be played is in a way which will be most advantageous to Dublin?? (coincidentally your team...)

That's not really how sport works...

It works by allowing the skills of the game to be shown . There are a lot of crap teams and equally crap coaches being saved by the current rules by being allowed to play a game that is so removed from what Gaelic football was envisaged it is nearly a different sport

If the footpass was removed from Gaelic Football most counties would be happy because most of them are uncomfortable kicking the ball. I watched one Tyrone player last week give 17 hand passes and no foot pass. And he probably thinks he's a good player . Ha ha

Don't spose you did the same for any of the Dublin players? From watching them previously they would have multiple players in this category every game they play. And I bet you think they're good players 

[JoG2]

Good article by Heaney

The incredible sense of entitlement within Dublin never ceases to amaze. Kerry have it but seem to pull it off with some dignity. Surely the main reason for their current bluster is that they know there's a good chance they will come unstuck again from the quarter finals on, and heaven forbid it's those dirty northerners again

[INDIANA]

Good article by Heaney

The incredible sense of entitlement within Dublin never ceases to amaze. Kerry have it but seem to pull it off with some dignity. Surely the main reason for their current bluster is that they know there's a good chance they will come unstuck again from the quarter finals on, and heaven forbid it's those dirty northerners again

. We have the games interests at heart . You only have your own petty self interest in preserving a type of football nobody wants to watch . And on a consistent basis you can't eveh deliver that

setup your own 9 team association and rename it. The rest of us will play the game of gaelic football . You won't be missed . I laugh at your sense of entitlement that you think we would miss you .

[blewuporstuffed]

Good article by Heaney

The incredible sense of entitlement within Dublin never ceases to amaze. Kerry have it but seem to pull it off with some dignity. Surely the main reason for their current bluster is that they know there's a good chance they will come unstuck again from the quarter finals on, and heaven forbid it's those dirty northerners again

. We have the games interests at heart . You only have your own petty self interest in preserving a type of football nobody wants to watch . And on a consistent basis you can't eveh deliver that

setup your own 9 team association and rename it. The rest of us will play the game of gaelic football . You won't be missed . I laugh at your sense of entitlement that you think we would miss you .

You are the one that wants the game changed 
How about you set up your own association for your own sport.
There can be no tackling allowed, kickpass only, all teams must wear sky blue, I suggest you call it 'Indianaball'

[INDIANA]

Good article by Heaney

The incredible sense of entitlement within Dublin never ceases to amaze. Kerry have it but seem to pull it off with some dignity. Surely the main reason for their current bluster is that they know there's a good chance they will come unstuck again from the quarter finals on, and heaven forbid it's those dirty northerners again

. We have the games interests at heart . You only have your own petty self interest in preserving a type of football nobody wants to watch . And on a consistent basis you can't eveh deliver that

setup your own 9 team association and rename it. The rest of us will play the game of gaelic football . You won't be missed . I laugh at your sense of entitlement that you think we would miss you .

You are the one that wants the game changed 
How about you set up your own association for your own sport.
There can be no tackling allowed, kickpass only, all teams must wear sky blue, I suggest you call it 'Indianaball'

Gaelic football has all of those things. The sport you lot play should have the term football removed. Gaelic mud wrestling would be a good name for your type of football I'm sure Benny Coulter would agree.

Feel sorry for the likes of Darren Mc Curry. He'd he appreciated better down South where accurate score taking forwards are better appreciated then the strong, fit , fast hand passing model that pervades up North .

[blewuporstuffed]

Which part is it you have a problem with, players being strong, fit, or able to handpass?
Northern football has produced as many top class forwards as anywhere else so im not sure why you keep trying to turn this into a north v south debate, when its really a debate on opposing styles.

[JoG2]

Good article by Heaney

The incredible sense of entitlement within Dublin never ceases to amaze. Kerry have it but seem to pull it off with some dignity. Surely the main reason for their current bluster is that they know there's a good chance they will come unstuck again from the quarter finals on, and heaven forbid it's those dirty northerners again

. We have the games interests at heart . You only have your own petty self interest in preserving a type of football nobody wants to watch . And on a consistent basis you can't eveh deliver that

setup your own 9 team association and rename it. The rest of us will play the game of gaelic football . You won't be missed . I laugh at your sense of entitlement that you think we would miss you .

You're a partitionist at heart. I was gonna type more but can't be bothered. The sun's shining

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

...
It depends on what you want. If you want basketball there is always the NBA- if you want GAA let's see some kicking. It's laughable that it's possible to get to senior inter county football by being strong, fit and a good handpasser.

A lot of teams are against this because the two best kick-passing teams in Ireland are Dublin and Kerry.

Very good, you've just described to a 'T' one of your own pre-eminent midfielders!

You're coming out with as much sanctimonious shite as Jim Gavin does these days Indiana, or should I say Jim?

[DuffleKing]

Laughable given that the dubs are a complete running team under galvin

[Jinxy]

In case nobody has pointed it out yet, there's a difference between not kicking the ball and not being able to kick the ball.

[DuffleKing]

As a further point of clarification, there is a difference between kicking and kick passing a ball

[easytiger95]

i think it's unfair to label the Dubs a handpassing team - I think we mix it really well. In both the All ireland winning years this decade it was all about quick transfer, and Flynn's kickpassing to the inside line is a real weapon when we're on song.

That said, I don't really see how anyone could expect Derry to suffer the same type of mauling as they did last year, when they could do something about it. There are shades of grey in the debate - I'd be completely against coaches setting out defensive systems for the sake of it, or as an ideological position. But given that I've played as a back in any team that i ever played in, whatever the sport, I'd be a great devotee of the old cliche "the game starts at nil-nil - don't let it get any worse than that". The tightening of the dubs defense gave us the platform to build the attacking game on, and it does take time to evolve. Compare the one man show that was Berno in 2010 to the more evolved attacking options in 2011, to the all out game in 2013.

I don't agree at all about Dublin entitlement. It becomes very easy for people to forget about the very real crisis of self belief that Dublin went through post 95 all the way up to 2009, and in a county our size, that counts as a real famine. But we should have a voice in the debate, as the way we won the All Ireland in 2013 sparked (scare) stories about a possible Dublin decade, and other hype about how other teams could possibly live with us. No one can convince me that this external hype wasn't a huge spur to coaches determined not to be exposed.

The irony of course was that none of it was true. Dublin did have a devastating way of playing in 2013, but they only beat Kerry in the dying seconds, and the 7 point margin was completely flattering, whilst Mayo could (should, given their first half display?) won the final.

A lot of football coaches at the moment are like Don Quixote, looking at windmills and seeing big blue giants, but 2014 has proved that there is no huge gap between the Dubs and the next four, say, top contenders. The big gap is between Division 1 and everywhere else, and because we play more lower division sides come champo than Kerry would, the hype revs up again. Not really our fault, and certainly, the "entitled" Dublin fan is usually a bandwagon jumper who knows f@~k all about the game.

As for Brolly, he is good craic, but hugely inconsistent and illogical in his crusades over the years. Two years ago he loved Donegal, before that the Dubs, before that Tyrone all for completely different footballing reasons. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and he communicates his very well, but i would baulk at the personalised nature of his comments. And his columns are syrupy, sentimental, anecdotal shite.

[INDIANA]

Laughable given that the dubs are a complete running team under galvin

They are of course thats why they scored 22 points last weekend. All of them handpassed over the bar I suppose

And you have the temerity to call me laughable.