Well folks, here we are. Armagh have finally won an Ulster quarter final and have Cavan as our rewards, what chance have we?
In all fairness i'm glad we're playing Cavan than Monaghan, not that I think Cavan will be easier but Monaghan just seem to have a we hoodoo over us the last few years and we struggle against Monaghan whereas I think Armagh will have a decent chance against Cavan (60/40 for Cavan is how i rate it).
Will this game be defensive or will it be a shoot out? Cavan have some tasty players and i'd love to see both teams just go for it, hopefully Cavan will have put all their time and effort into beating Monaghan and take their eye of the ball and let us slip through to an Ulster final :P
Hoping Armagh learnt from the Down game and if they get the chance to take control of the game they take it. Be interesting to see who lines out where, as a few players put their hands up to be noticed, and a few seemed to have buckled.
Would have this as a 50/50 to be honest.
Not confident about this game at all. If Cavan don't win by 4/5 I would be surprised
Funny I agree that despite cavan beating monaghan that Armagh would have had less hope against monaghan. Hopefully Cavan pull through this and set up a final against Tyrone (if we keep our side of the bargain). Will be a great day in the Jayop house with the missus from Cavan.
I expect Cavan to win by 3 or 4 but wouldn't be awful surprised if they didn't. Looking forward to drunkards in Clones and a good fight in the parade. It'll be mighty!
Quote from: Itchy on May 27, 2019, 06:40:12 PM
I expect Cavan to win by 3 or 4 but wouldn't be awful surprised if they didn't. Looking forward to drunkards in Clones and a good fight in the parade. It'll be mighty!
There will be a run on wine in McAnerney's this week.
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
I don't think anyone that familiar with football in Armagh thinks it is just as case of turning up. We might stumble over the line, especially if some of quiet players the last day play more to their ability.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 27, 2019, 07:07:04 PM
I don't think anyone that familiar with football in Armagh thinks it is just as case of turning up. We might stumble over the line, especially if some of quiet players the last day play more to their ability.
Yep this. Armagh people aren't that deluded. No doubt Armagh could win the game but to be of the opinion that its a matter of just showing up for a game they will no doubt be the bookies underdogs I
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
That one hasn't been to any Armagh matches this year
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
That one hasn't been to any Armagh matches this year
That one played for Armagh.
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
That one hasn't been to any Armagh matches this year
That one played for Armagh.
Doesn't mean he has been to any games this year. If anyone thinks all we have to do is turn up to win any match, nevermond this one, they need their head looking at
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
That one hasn't been to any Armagh matches this year
That one played for Armagh.
Doesn't mean he has been to any games this year. If anyone thinks all we have to do is turn up to win any match, nevermond this one, they need their head looking at
He doesn't miss too many matches.
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 27, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 27, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
I was much more confident going into Monaghan game. Don't think favourite tag will sit well with Cavan. Work with a couple Armagh lads. One reckons Armagh should win and he says most people in Armagh would be of the opinion that it's just a case of turning up.
Armagh have good forwards but then Faulkner and McLoughlin are good markers. Whoever wins midfield will win.
That one hasn't been to any Armagh matches this year
That one played for Armagh.
Doesn't mean he has been to any games this year. If anyone thinks all we have to do is turn up to win any match, nevermond this one, they need their head looking at
He doesn't miss too many matches.
Well then he is just wrong. And I can safely say I've yet to speak to one person who thinks it's a matter of turning up. I wish I had his confidence
Is this game on tv? I'll be kicking my heels in Berlin with my flight at 10pm. There's plenty of Irish pubs there so hopefully i get a chance to see the game.
Quote from: ardchieftain on May 27, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
Is this game on tv? I'll be kicking my heels in Berlin with my flight at 10pm. There's plenty of Irish pubs there so hopefully i get a chance to see the game.
Don't think so unfortunately.
Deferred coverage on BBC 2 at 7pm
Definitely a tricky assignment for Armagh. of the starting 15 v Down I'd say only 3-4 lads tops played to their potential. freakishly almost every sub who came on performed excellently (bar sheridan who got injured) and it was this that got us over the line. Having a strong bench is essential in championship but we'll need more from the players that start. We def have an issue seeing games out which would leave it that even if we're 6/7 ahead at any stage Cavan will still be confident of pegging us back which is worrying. Cant call it - whoever manages the game better on the daywill come out of it.
I'd be surprised if we don't see Morgan, Shields and Soup start this time. Also Grimley and Murnin if they are fit enough to play.
Armagh will start as underdogs for this one and I think that might actually help us a little. The pressure of getting a win in Ulster has been lifted. Hopefully they are able to express themselves more.
Armagh with a far superior forward line should be very confident here. Cavan looked like Monaghan was their Ulster Final and now matter how much they tell themselves 'it'll all be for nothing if we don't get to the final' it will be very hard to reach that same level of ferocity they managed in the first half against Monaghan.
Armagh's defence is a bit suspect but I think they should have enough to deal with Madden and the midfielders/half forwards who rotate in there to help him out.
If Cavan can keep it tight at the back, get a bit of a lead to hold onto and keep their discipline and composure then they could do it. If Armagh blitz us for a period I don't think we'll have the firepower to catch them.
Fully expect our discipline issues to raise their ugly head and sparks to fly in this game.
Quote from: Angelo on May 27, 2019, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: ardchieftain on May 27, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
Is this game on tv? I'll be kicking my heels in Berlin with my flight at 10pm. There's plenty of Irish pubs there so hopefully i get a chance to see the game.
Don't think so unfortunately.
Ive watched GAA games at The Lír irish bar, near Tiergarten, pretty central.
This game is a bit late 8pm (berlin time), if your flight out of Berlin is at 10pm, you have no chance.
Rte radio 7pm will have to do.
Quote from: Westside on May 28, 2019, 05:05:49 PM
Armagh with a far superior forward line should be very confident here. Cavan looked like Monaghan was their Ulster Final and now matter how much they tell themselves 'it'll all be for nothing if we don't get to the final' it will be very hard to reach that same level of ferocity they managed in the first half against Monaghan.
Armagh's defence is a bit suspect but I think they should have enough to deal with Madden and the midfielders/half forwards who rotate in there to help him out.
If Cavan can keep it tight at the back, get a bit of a lead to hold onto and keep their discipline and composure then they could do it. If Armagh blitz us for a period I don't think we'll have the firepower to catch them.
Fully expect our discipline issues to raise their ugly head and sparks to fly in this game.
A superior forward line, probably. Far Superior - not so sure. Armagh have been in Div 3 for a number of years and did ok in Div 2. Cavan have been in Div 1 for 2 of the past 3 years. I think we should be stronger in midfield and our backs would be much better than Downs. We conceded I think only 3 goals in Div 1, one of which should not have been allowed and we didn't really give Monaghan a sniff of goal either. So I think if Cavan can keep goals out then we can win this by 3 points as Armagh look quite loose in defence. Of course McGeeney could suprise us and play a 13 men behind the ball game and that would be something different to consider. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Armagh won but I tend to agree with the bookies.
Quote from: Main Street on May 28, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 27, 2019, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: ardchieftain on May 27, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
Is this game on tv? I'll be kicking my heels in Berlin with my flight at 10pm. There's plenty of Irish pubs there so hopefully i get a chance to see the game.
Don't think so unfortunately.
Ive watched GAA games at The Lír irish bar, near Tiergarten, pretty central.
This game is a bit late 8pm (berlin time), if your flight out of Berlin is at 10pm, you have no chance.
Rte radio 7pm will have to do.
Looks like radio the only option then. Think i'll avoid the result and just watch it when i get home.
As for the game itself, it's too difficult to call, don't rule out a draw.
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: Westside on May 28, 2019, 05:05:49 PM
Armagh with a far superior forward line should be very confident here. Cavan looked like Monaghan was their Ulster Final and now matter how much they tell themselves 'it'll all be for nothing if we don't get to the final' it will be very hard to reach that same level of ferocity they managed in the first half against Monaghan.
Armagh's defence is a bit suspect but I think they should have enough to deal with Madden and the midfielders/half forwards who rotate in there to help him out.
If Cavan can keep it tight at the back, get a bit of a lead to hold onto and keep their discipline and composure then they could do it. If Armagh blitz us for a period I don't think we'll have the firepower to catch them.
Fully expect our discipline issues to raise their ugly head and sparks to fly in this game.
A superior forward line, probably. Far Superior - not so sure. Armagh have been in Div 3 for a number of years and did ok in Div 2. Cavan have been in Div 1 for 2 of the past 3 years. I think we should be stronger in midfield and our backs would be much better than Downs. We conceded I think only 3 goals in Div 1, one of which should not have been allowed and we didn't really give Monaghan a sniff of goal either. So I think if Cavan can keep goals out then we can win this by 3 points as Armagh look quite loose in defence. Of course McGeeney could suprise us and play a 13 men behind the ball game and that would be something different to consider. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Armagh won but I tend to agree with the bookies.
What did you think of the midfield performance against Monaghan Itchy? I thought we were dominated and there was very little by way of organised winning of our own knockouts. It was a care of look for Gearoid and hope for the best.
Quote from: Westside on May 29, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: Westside on May 28, 2019, 05:05:49 PM
Armagh with a far superior forward line should be very confident here. Cavan looked like Monaghan was their Ulster Final and now matter how much they tell themselves 'it'll all be for nothing if we don't get to the final' it will be very hard to reach that same level of ferocity they managed in the first half against Monaghan.
Armagh's defence is a bit suspect but I think they should have enough to deal with Madden and the midfielders/half forwards who rotate in there to help him out.
If Cavan can keep it tight at the back, get a bit of a lead to hold onto and keep their discipline and composure then they could do it. If Armagh blitz us for a period I don't think we'll have the firepower to catch them.
Fully expect our discipline issues to raise their ugly head and sparks to fly in this game.
A superior forward line, probably. Far Superior - not so sure. Armagh have been in Div 3 for a number of years and did ok in Div 2. Cavan have been in Div 1 for 2 of the past 3 years. I think we should be stronger in midfield and our backs would be much better than Downs. We conceded I think only 3 goals in Div 1, one of which should not have been allowed and we didn't really give Monaghan a sniff of goal either. So I think if Cavan can keep goals out then we can win this by 3 points as Armagh look quite loose in defence. Of course McGeeney could suprise us and play a 13 men behind the ball game and that would be something different to consider. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Armagh won but I tend to agree with the bookies.
What did you think of the midfield performance against Monaghan Itchy? I thought we were dominated and there was very little by way of organised winning of our own knockouts. It was a care of look for Gearoid and hope for the best.
I thought Ray Galligan was the biggest problem on kickouts to be honest. When mcKiernan came into the middle he got hand to everything when it mattered in the 4th quarter. Will Armagh push up to force us long, I am not so sure they will anyway.
Be interesting to see how Cavan handle the hot favourites tag for this game. Armagh need big improvement though as the performance v Down won't get close to causing upset here.
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2019, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 29, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2019, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: Westside on May 28, 2019, 05:05:49 PM
Armagh with a far superior forward line should be very confident here. Cavan looked like Monaghan was their Ulster Final and now matter how much they tell themselves 'it'll all be for nothing if we don't get to the final' it will be very hard to reach that same level of ferocity they managed in the first half against Monaghan.
Armagh's defence is a bit suspect but I think they should have enough to deal with Madden and the midfielders/half forwards who rotate in there to help him out.
If Cavan can keep it tight at the back, get a bit of a lead to hold onto and keep their discipline and composure then they could do it. If Armagh blitz us for a period I don't think we'll have the firepower to catch them.
Fully expect our discipline issues to raise their ugly head and sparks to fly in this game.
A superior forward line, probably. Far Superior - not so sure. Armagh have been in Div 3 for a number of years and did ok in Div 2. Cavan have been in Div 1 for 2 of the past 3 years. I think we should be stronger in midfield and our backs would be much better than Downs. We conceded I think only 3 goals in Div 1, one of which should not have been allowed and we didn't really give Monaghan a sniff of goal either. So I think if Cavan can keep goals out then we can win this by 3 points as Armagh look quite loose in defence. Of course McGeeney could suprise us and play a 13 men behind the ball game and that would be something different to consider. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Armagh won but I tend to agree with the bookies.
What did you think of the midfield performance against Monaghan Itchy? I thought we were dominated and there was very little by way of organised winning of our own knockouts. It was a care of look for Gearoid and hope for the best.
I thought Ray Galligan was the biggest problem on kickouts to be honest. When mcKiernan came into the middle he got hand to everything when it mattered in the 4th quarter. Will Armagh push up to force us long, I am not so sure they will anyway.
They will for small periods.
Will be interesting to see if McGeeney tries anything to improve upon our handling of high balls into the area. Charlie Vernon back to Full Back if Grimley is available for MF?
We have the forwards to win. Granted Cavan defenders are better than Down. The key is do we have the game plan to exploit our forward power we could be in trouble. Need to move the ball fast. Would like us to push up on their kick out and display some evidence of having worked on our own kickout
Armagh need to move the ball fast, but rarely achieve this against a half competent team.
Don't know where the Armagh optimism is coming from......watched the game against Down.....pure turgid......same old habits.....no free taker....Cavan will win comfortably I feel.
I would kind of agree on this. Cavan looked very good in the 1st round and should definitely be favourites. They had some guys in their forwards who looked very good so not sure where the notion that armagh have much superior forwards is coming from.
That being said I would expect Armagh to improve and Cavan were probably targeting the Monaghan match so might not be quite as good. Still would have Cavan favourites though.
Cavan 4/6 Armagh are 6/4 mostly. Seems generous for Cavan tbh, Armagh are decent from MF on but brutal defensively. Cavan by 3 or 4 pts.
I think Cavan should start Conroy and give him the frees on the left. We need to improve our conversion rate. Bookies have the handicap at 1 point and if it's that close, we can't afford to be kicking easy frees wide as we have done this year so far. Hard to know who you drop though.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 29, 2019, 07:29:02 PM
Don't know where the Armagh optimism is coming from......watched the game against Down.....pure turgid......same old habits.....no free taker....Cavan will win comfortably I feel.
ONeill got 4 from trees tho granted he missed a few. If Grimley is back he is a fairly consistent free taker
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 29, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 29, 2019, 07:29:02 PM
Don't know where the Armagh optimism is coming from......watched the game against Down.....pure turgid......same old habits.....no free taker....Cavan will win comfortably I feel.
ONeill got 4 from trees tho granted he missed a few. If Grimley is back he is a fairly consistent free taker
I thought he should've taken them from the ground.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 29, 2019, 07:29:02 PM
Don't know where the Armagh optimism is coming from......watched the game against Down.....pure turgid......same old habits.....no free taker....Cavan will win comfortably I feel.
There isn't much optimism in Armagh or here. We are talking up our fowards. That does not equate to optimism that we will win. There are doubts on our injuries, defenders, defensive system and aspects of our attacking game plan. Least said about our kick out strategies the better.
To win we will need to have done serious work on our defensive system and kick out strategy. There is no reason why this can't be done. We will need to be brave. Pick Soupy alongside Jamie and Rian. Keep them forward. Stretch Cavan wide. Move the ball quickly. Push up on the Cavan kickout. We will need a much better return from frees.
Cavan have McKiernan, a game plan and good team work but lack potency up front.
Armagh have great forwards tho they lack cohesion still they have the potential to win this. It will be foul-arama at the back and the empty vessel walking the line which will be their likely undoing
from a betting stand point 4/6 about Cavan imo is very generous. To shift 3.13 v a Down side that was set up to try and win a dull defensive game was poor. I think we lack some guile in our defenders and cant seem to handle a team that runs directly at us with pace. However we do have forwards that can get red hot and if its an all out shootout we have a chance. Living hope more than confidence.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on May 29, 2019, 07:29:02 PM
Don't know where the Armagh optimism is coming from......watched the game against Down.....pure turgid......same old habits.....no free taker....Cavan will win comfortably I feel.
He may be young but Rian O'Neill is a good free taker. He had a nervous start against Down but I don't think he missed a free in second half. Failing that Grimley is a competent free taker. To be fair to Grugan his free taking is normally fairly good but he had a poor day all round against Down.
I'd say most Armagh supporters are going in hope rather than in expectation. I don't think that equates to optimism.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 30, 2019, 09:42:46 AM
I'd say most Armagh supporters are going in hope rather than in expectation. I don't think that equates to optimism.
Some of us don't even have that much hope for this one
Travelling in hope rather than expectation. The last time we played Cavan they beat us by about 20 points. That was a long Saturday evening.........
Quote from: bennydorano on May 29, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Cavan 4/6 Armagh are 6/4 mostly. Seems generous for Cavan tbh, Armagh are decent from MF on but brutal defensively. Cavan by 3 or 4 pts.
Cavan have more experience playing the top teams even though they have yoyoed in and out of Division 1
Looking forward to the match now, pity about the weather as it looks like it's going to be damp. Clones without a sunny Championship Sunday just doesn't feel right, the last day i remember getting wet there was Monaghan 2003 when we got humped when red hot favourites.
Cavan for Sunday are rightly favourites but I think we all agree Armagh are capable of a result but you just don't know what you're going to get from Armagh, I'm going expecting Cavan to win but hoping Armagh win but the chance to get to an Ulster final is decent and it would be great for the confidence to the younger lads of the team...No matter who wins on Sunday we/they'll be big underdogs for the Ulster final.
Armagh 2 - 13
Cavan 1 - 14
Hoping :P
Quote from: illdecide on May 30, 2019, 09:27:58 PM
Looking forward to the match now, pity about the weather as it looks like it's going to be damp. Clones without a sunny Championship Sunday just doesn't feel right, the last day i remember getting wet there was Monaghan 2003 when we got humped when red hot favourites.
Cavan for Sunday are rightly favourites but I think we all agree Armagh are capable of a result but you just don't know what you're going to get from Armagh, I'm going expecting Cavan to win but hoping Armagh win but the chance to get to an Ulster final is decent and it would be great for the confidence to the younger lads of the team...No matter who wins on Sunday we/they'll be big underdogs for the Ulster final.
Armagh 2 - 13
Cavan 1 - 14
Hoping :P
I think if Armagh get two goals they will win but I'm thinking the score could be more like
Cavan 1-17
Armagh 0-15
Quote from: Itchy on May 30, 2019, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 30, 2019, 09:27:58 PM
Looking forward to the match now, pity about the weather as it looks like it's going to be damp. Clones without a sunny Championship Sunday just doesn't feel right, the last day i remember getting wet there was Monaghan 2003 when we got humped when red hot favourites.
Cavan for Sunday are rightly favourites but I think we all agree Armagh are capable of a result but you just don't know what you're going to get from Armagh, I'm going expecting Cavan to win but hoping Armagh win but the chance to get to an Ulster final is decent and it would be great for the confidence to the younger lads of the team...No matter who wins on Sunday we/they'll be big underdogs for the Ulster final.
Armagh 2 - 13
Cavan 1 - 14
Hoping :P
I think if Armagh get two goals they will win but I'm thinking the score could be more like
Cavan 1-17
Armagh 0-15
Goals will flow
Cavan 3-12
Armagh 0-14
Will there be any live stream-able radio commentary for this game. Premium Sports, who have the tv rights here in the US are not showing the game until 2pm (EST).
Out of interest how many of Cavans 4 in a row Ulster U21 winners started against Monaghan in the quarter final?
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we're going to have a hope. I just can't see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we're going to have a hope. I just can't see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Hope Cavan rain balls down on the edge of the square. We can't be that bad again on that tactic and the more ball they kick away the better.
Win, lose or draw we have to at least impose ourselves on the game and try to exploit our strengths
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 31, 2019, 03:59:31 PM
Out of interest how many of Cavans 4 in a row Ulster U21 winners started against Monaghan in the quarter final?
9 Starters and 3 of the Subs that came on have U21 medals.
Quote from: LCohen on May 31, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we're going to have a hope. I just can't see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Hope Cavan rain balls down on the edge of the square. We can't be that bad again on that tactic and the more ball they kick away the better.
Win, lose or draw we have to at least impose ourselves on the game and try to exploit our strengths
Cavan mightn't get scores from every ball lumped in but they'll cause havoc at least. And we'll have to deal with any that go in there. Plus our defence give away too many silly frees.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on May 31, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we're going to have a hope. I just can't see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Hope Cavan rain balls down on the edge of the square. We can't be that bad again on that tactic and the more ball they kick away the better.
Win, lose or draw we have to at least impose ourselves on the game and try to exploit our strengths
Cavan mightn't get scores from every ball lumped in but they'll cause havoc at least. And we'll have to deal with any that go in there. Plus our defence give away too many silly frees.
I dont think they will play in hail marys to be honest but I do expect long early ball and Madden and Martin Reilly to be drifting in behind your backs.
Interesting reading these U21 teams from that 4 in a row...
2011
Tyrone: N Morgan; R Pickering, R McNamee, F McQuaid, N Sludden, G Teague, S McKenna, N McKenna [0-2], R Donnelly [0-1], P McNeice, P Harte [0-1], D McNulty, K Coney, M Donnelly [0-1], R O'Neil [0-4]. Subs: C Gervin [0-1] for McGuigan, K Mossey for McNabb, D McNulty for McNeice, J McCullagh for McNulty
Cavan: A O'Mara; M Leddy, O Minagh, D Tighe, K Meehan, D Barkey, M Brady, G McKiernan [0-2], F Flanagan, N Smith, N Murray [1-0], B Reilly [0-2], J Brady [0-4], N McDermott, P Leddy. Subs: T Mooney for Tighe, P King [0-2] for M Leddy, C McClarey for Smith, C Smith for McDermott, D Flanagan for Reilly
2012
Cavan: C Gilsenan, F Flanagan, K Brady, J McLoughlin, D Sexton (1-0, pen), C Moynagh, M Brady, P Leddy, K Clarke, J Dillon (0-1, C Conroy, R Lynch (0-1), J Brady (0-3, 2f), K Tierney (0-5, 5f), N O'Donnell.
Subs: P King for Brady, B Reilly for Dillon, S Nolan for Conroy, PP O'Hara for Reilly
Tyrone: D McAnenly, B Tierney (0-1), D McNally, HP McGeary, N Sludden (0-1), C Clarke, T McCann, H Og Conlan (0-1), S Warnock, S Tierney (0-1), T Canavan (0-1, f), R Donnelly (0-2, 2f), D McCurry (0-3, 3f), C McAliskey, C Daly.
2013
CAVAN: Conor Gilsenan (Bailieborough); Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels), Killian Clarke (Shercock), Ciaran Brady (Arva); Daragh McVeety (Crosserlough), Daragh Sexton (Cavan Gaels), Feargal Flanagan (Butlersbridge); Brian Sankey (Shercock), Michael Argue (Bailieborough); Gerry Smith (Lavey), Chris Conroy (Lavey), Turloc Mooney (Redhills); Enda O'Reilly (Mullahoran), Paul O'Connor (Cavan Gaels), Jack Brady (Ramor Utd).
Subs: Chris Madden for Conroy, Paul Graham for Mooney.
DONEGAL: Peter Boyle (Aodh Rua); Kevin McFadden (Cloughaneely), Caolan Ward (St Eunan's), Gavin Gallagher (Sean MacCumhaill's); Pauric Carr (Kilcar), Martin O'Reilly (Sean MacCumhaill's), Luke Keeney (Four Masters); Darach O'Connor (Buncrana), Leon Kelly (Glenswilly); Ryan McHugh (Kilcar), Odhran MacNiallais (Gweedore), Conor Gibbons (St Eunan's); William Gillespie (Naomh Colmcille), Patrick McBrearty (Kilcar), Eoin McHugh (Kilcar).
2014
CAVAN: J Farrelly; B Fortune, K Clarke, P Faulkner; G Smith, C Moynagh, C Brady; L Buchanan, M Argue; P Graham, E Flanagan, A Watson; D McVetty, K Bouchier, J Dillon
Subs: A O'Hara for Moynagh (BC, 22), T Hayes for Bouchier (40), E Hession for Flanagan (47)
DONEGAL: J Coll; C Brennan, C Parke, A McCloskey; M O'Reilly, R McHugh, G Gallagher; H McFadden, C Thompson; D Mulgrew, P McBrearty, E Doherty; D O'Connor, W Gillespie, E McHugh
Subs: C Cannon for McCloskey (38), J O'Malley for Doherty (52)
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on May 31, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we're going to have a hope. I just can't see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Hope Cavan rain balls down on the edge of the square. We can't be that bad again on that tactic and the more ball they kick away the better.
Win, lose or draw we have to at least impose ourselves on the game and try to exploit our strengths
Cavan mightn't get scores from every ball lumped in but they'll cause havoc at least. And we'll have to deal with any that go in there. Plus our defence give away too many silly frees.
They won't cause havoc if we have done our homework. It would be quite incredible if we haven't
The important thing is that we cope with it when it happens but we cannot assume that Cavan will just repeatedly try to exploit an issue that obviously we will have worked extensively on addressing.
Thinking back to McGeeney's first game as manager in the Ulster Championship and we were very inflexible tactically. A player was drafted in specifically to mark Donegal's McFadden and Vernon was going to boss Murphy around the square. On the day Murphy took Charlie for a walk around AG and McBrearty won the match operating around the square. McFadden had been cronked an age before and was never selected again. We had obsessed about a threat that didn't exist and the line watched on as Plan A unraveled and mused over the concept of a plan B. 4 years later we have better options and something to offer in the other half of the pitch and a much stronger bench. We need to ask Cavan questions and give them something to worry about
Quote from: Itchy on May 31, 2019, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 05:45:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on May 31, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2019, 04:33:51 PM
Our defence is very suspect especially under the high ball. We need at least 2 goals if we’re going to have a hope. I just can’t see it happening.
Cavan by 5.
Hope Cavan rain balls down on the edge of the square. We can’t be that bad again on that tactic and the more ball they kick away the better.
Win, lose or draw we have to at least impose ourselves on the game and try to exploit our strengths
Cavan mightn’t get scores from every ball lumped in but they’ll cause havoc at least. And we’ll have to deal with any that go in there. Plus our defence give away too many silly frees.
I dont think they will play in hail marys to be honest but I do expect long early ball and Madden and Martin Reilly to be drifting in behind your backs.
If Givney was still involved I think that tactic would cause havoc. But with the personnel we currently have we could end up with egg on our face. Definitely agree on the early ball but it will need to be clever and quality ball with well timed runs from our inside men giving them good opportunity to win it in space and either take on the score or exploit the space with runners coming through.
The odd hail Mary would be no harm but only if the right man is in there, mainly McKiernan, and if it is not working we cannot persist.
Armagh team
Hughes, Morgan, Mc Kay, hughes
Kennedy Donaghy forker
Grimley burns
Nugent Grugan hall
Clarke o neill murnin
So no Rafferty or vernon
Actually thought Campbell would start but see logic in springing from the bench
Quote from: naka on May 31, 2019, 09:35:31 PM
Armagh team
Hughes, Morgan, Mc Kay, hughes
Kennedy Donaghy forker
Grimley burns
Nugent Grugan hall
Clarke o neill murnin
So no Rafferty or vernon
Actually thought Campbell would start but see logic in springing from the bench
TBH Rafferty & Vernon did not deserve their place after their last display. I'm sure Campbell is disappointed he's not starting, what has a fella to do to get a start. Any game he did start in the league he was first man to be subbed. I'm sure KMcG has his reasons though ::).
How fit will Murnin be? There is no way he can last the full game, maybe that's why Campbell is in reserve? Who knows, he may well do the changes before the game though just to confuse the opposition :D.
Mc Geeney in nosebleed territory as a a manager
Thanks Westside and Itchy.
I heard Murnin is still injured and his appearance the last day was a last roll of the dice for McGeeney, which makes sense saying he came on in extra time and not normal time. I would be surprised if him and Cambell was not a straight swap. Surprised Shields isn't starting either, but again a great option from the bench when tired legs are kicking in, he can drive the team on.
Hopefully Grimley is down to start also, as free kicking is vital for Armagh if they have any hopes of winning.
Very tight to call, haven't seen a lot of Cavan bar the Monaghan highlights. If they are up for it as they were that day, Armagh could be in trouble.
Quote from: rrhf on June 01, 2019, 12:20:30 AM
Mc Geeney in nosebleed territory as a a manager
You haven't followed his managerial career have you
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on June 01, 2019, 11:25:17 AM
I heard Murnin is still injured and his appearance the last day was a last roll of the dice for McGeeney, which makes sense saying he came on in extra time and not normal time. I would be surprised if him and Cambell was not a straight swap. Surprised Shields isn't starting either, but again a great option from the bench when tired legs are kicking in, he can drive the team on.
Hopefully Grimley is down to start also, as free kicking is vital for Armagh if they have any hopes of winning.
Very tight to call, haven't seen a lot of Cavan bar the Monaghan highlights. If they are up for it as they were that day, Armagh could be in trouble.
Talking to a lad in the gym here in Lurgan today and from what he said I would be surprised in Murnin starts too
I haven't seen Cavan at all this year however they've played at a higher level all year and had a good win over Monaghan. That's why I reckon they will win with a bit to spare
Soupy will be in for Murnin.....that's a given. Murnin has 20 minutes in him at this stage and that's better at the end of the game rather than the start. Will be no other changes from the 15 from what I can gather. It's gonna be very very tough. Cavan though out such and effort into beating Monaghan maybe this will have deflated them. Who knows as we did burst it to beat Down.
Is this on tv?
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 01, 2019, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 01, 2019, 12:20:30 AM
Mc Geeney in nosebleed territory as a a manager
You haven't followed his managerial career have you
McGeeney is one of the highest-rated managers in Ireland, so he will have an adequate plan for today's semi.
0-7 each at half time. Loads of poor shooting and shot selection by both teams.
Anyone have a radio link besides BBC NI?
Won't work stateside.
Goal for Armagh they lead 1-9 to 0-9. drinkingharp game on here https://northernsound.ie/wp-content/plugins/harpoon-radioplayer/northernsound/
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 02, 2019, 05:09:35 PM
Goal for Armagh they lead 1-9 to 0-9. drinkingharp game on here https://northernsound.ie/wp-content/plugins/harpoon-radioplayer/northernsound/
Thanks!
56 mins played Armagh 1-12 Cavan 0-12
Cavan red card - 2 points in it
Quote from: Solo_run on June 02, 2019, 05:30:05 PM
Cavan red card - 2 points in it
14 man Cavan have leveled it now!
Full time Cavan 0-16 Armagh 1-13. Extra time to be played.
Game was there to be won for Armagh in normal time. 1-11 to 0-10 ahead 50 minutes played. Will it prove costly in extra time?
There's been humiliations-a-plenty for Armagh in the past decade but failing to beat 14 man Cavan will be up there for years to come should McGeeney lose this one!
Half time in extra time. Cavan 0-16 Armagh 1-13. Going by the radio coverage the two teams have run themselves into the ground.
3 mins to play Armagh lead by 1.
Level 2 mins to play.
Full time Armagh 1-14 Cavan 0-17. Replay next Sunday..
Quote from: hardstation on June 02, 2019, 06:05:36 PM
That's very poor 2 games in a row from Armagh.
Still better than the beating most were predicting at the hands of a Div 1 team with the strength of successive U21 squads. Armagh should have won but playing cautiously in the last few minutes turned over possession to bring the draw. Fear beat both teams in extra time.
Cavan will be most pleased with that draw. Armagh left the win behind them and underdogs rarely wins a replay.
Faulkner black card sums up all that is wrong with the black card. It wasn't cynical or a body check. Just a poorly timed challenge that the ref has just pulled a decision out of his as*. The tackle in football needs seriously looked at to stop this sport becoming as soft as soccer
Armagh have got some great players but the manager is completely clueless. Both Down and Cavan should have been well put away but tactics let us down. The sooner he goes the better
Quote from: Nanderson on June 02, 2019, 07:38:47 PM
Faulkner black card sums up all that is wrong with the black card. It wasn't cynical or a body check. Just a poorly timed challenge that the ref has just pulled a decision out of his as*. The tackle in football needs seriously looked at to stop this sport becoming as soft as soccer
You're supposed to tackle the ball in Gaelic football."within the rules of fair play "
The 2 Cavan bucks on Shannonside/Northern Sound didn't think much of the Ref.
I wonder were they ever so slightly biased?😁
Armagh are some team for the late dirty hits.
Thought the ref hard on Cavan. Armagh have a very poor defence. Very fond of dropping the knee on players on the ground. and depend on swamping the defence. Jarlath Burns was very good. McVeety and them Murray lads from Cavan also. I actually fear for the winner, a mauling in the Ulster final awaits.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2019, 08:25:07 PM
Thought the ref hard on Cavan. Armagh have a very poor defence. Very fond of dropping the knee on players on the ground. and depend on swamping the defence. Jarlath Burns was very good. McVeety and them Murray lads from Cavan also. I actually fear for the winner, a mauling in the Ulster final awaits.
Really?
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act. Remember Ricey getting cited for it too. Never like to see it.
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 02, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act.
Very poor from donaghy and a deserved red card. The part about McGeeneye is nonsense tho
Morgan was at the same craic too
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 02, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act. Remember Ricey getting cited for it too. Never like to see it.
When did McGeeney drop his knees into a player?
I think Armagh scored 2 points in the last 35-40 mins of that match. Pure pish.
Tyrone 2002?
Fairly disappointing game. I was expecting more from both sides. Cavan really need to unearth more shooters. They only seemed to have four or five players who were willing to take the shot on.
Great leadership by Cian Mackey to kick those 3 long range points, without him Cavan would surely have lost today.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 02, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
Great leadership by Cian Mackey to kick those 3 long range points, without him Cavan would surely have lost today.
I knew as soon as he came in he would do that. I bloody don't like the guy. And I mean that as a compliment
Neither team deserved to win, the overworked ref did well to blow early to ensure the replay.
The post match comments from the supporters perfectly summed up the game.
Would the suicide hot lines be a bit busier after a game like that?
Again, a very good show by BBCNI.
Ref gave Cavan a couple of handy ones early on, but did fairly well after that. Got most calls right.
Faulkner, wasn't a black card.
Donaghy, definite red.
Grimley lucky to get yellow.
We go again.
Quote from: Main Street on June 02, 2019, 09:14:34 PM
Neither team deserved to win, the overworked ref did well to blow early to ensure the replay.
The post match comments from the supporters perfectly summed up the game.
Would the suicide hot lines be a bit busier after a game like that?
Again, a very good show by BBCNI.
Don't think we need to bring the tragedy that is suicide into it. You're better than that MS
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 02, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act. Remember Ricey getting cited for it too. Never like to see it.
Yeah, it was adirty action.
Well spotted by the referee in fairness - need to cut that cowardly action from the GAA.
As an aside, if I was Mc Geeney, I'd be ripping with Donaghy for that - ildiscliplined.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 02, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 02, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act.
Very poor from donaghy and a deserved red card. The part about McGeeneye is nonsense tho
From what I saw of McGeeney in his playing days was that he was tough and hard but always fair.
Quote from: thebuzz on June 02, 2019, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 02, 2019, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 02, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Donaghy's straight red for falling with both knees into a man lying down is classic McGeeney from his playing days. Players might be well conditioned but that's a potential spleen-rupturing act.
Very poor from donaghy and a deserved red card. The part about McGeeneye is nonsense tho
From what I saw of McGeeney in his playing days was that he was tough and hard but always fair.
Agreed except I'd say hard and cynical dragging players to the ground in way would be black cards today. Not a dirty player tho.
Haven't seen any tv footage yet. Had no idea why Donaghy was sent off but doesn't seem like it will be pretty viewing.
Some nice scores but game was poor on quality. Mc veety was superb. Thought Hughes and Forker were very good for us.
We threw away a winning position again. Players in a position to hit a forward pass seemed to bottle it and take the sideways option. A sort of a boredom first policy.
But the key to the entire game was the Armagh strategy in Cavan kick outs. Look at the outcomes across the game on whether the opponent presses on your kick out. It's clear that dropping off is a failed strategy. Yet we persist. There was a bunch of Armagh fans in the Oswald Mosley stand throwing balls back on the pitch forcing the Cavan kick out to be retaken and they had time to to knock it along the ground to the same unmarked defender. Given all the time in the world and a man advantage we were simply never going to mark that man. This crazy tactic has to end. Cavan were there for the taking and we consciously decided to give them another chance. It's criminal
Watched the whole game there, and it was the most entertaining game on telly today.
As for the ref, the first Cavan black was a poor decision (yellow all day long), but overall I thought he gave Armagh a slightly hard time. I think maybe their reputation preceeds them in terms of their tackling and I thought Hall was called for overcarrying a couple of times very harshly, and I thought Morgan was defending brilliant against McVeety, hard but not dirty, and was unlucky to get the yellow card.
Burns was super for Armagh, but I was expecting a bit more from Clarke and O'Neill. McVeety really good for Cavan, and what a star Mackey is.
While sometimes the Dubs make it look very easy, playing keepball with a minute or 2 to go is really difficult and generally backfires.
Overall, the standard wasn't great. The Armagh team of the early 00s would have beaten either team today quite easily. But still looking forward to the replay and very hard to call it. Both teams should have improvement in them and it might well help the winner to give a better account in the final
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.
The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.
Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.
Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.
The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.
Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.
Oh dear. Talk about seeing what you want. Cavan players were given carte Blanche to take as many steps as they wanted. Any time they were touched they got a free. Yet man McVeety, a good player, is an ejit. Starts pushing players and when they push back he turns to the umpire and cries. Actually I agree that the ref was pathetic. Also agree that the black card for Faulkner was wrong decision and Grimley was lucky to stay on the park. Shields got elbowed in the head. Clear red card. As was Donaghys
Quote from: Hound on June 02, 2019, 10:23:47 PM
Overall, the standard wasn't great. The Armagh team of the early 00s would have beaten either team today quite easily.
I'd agree there.
Your own Dublin team are great no questioning that however the overall the standard of competition they have isn't great. Just look at the current challengers. Tyrone not a patch on their All Ireland winning teams,Kerry in transition and still learning how to defend and Mayo who haven't reached a provincial final for the last 4 years and knocked out of the championship last year by Kildare.
Neutral observer here.
Thought it was a good game but Cavan can certainly feel hard done by officiate.
Armagh seemed to get easier frees and the majority if not most of the 50/50 calls. The black cards were very harsh especially when Armagh players were let off for the same thing and I don't think Cavan red was warranted. Shields play acting got the man sent off.
Jamie Clarke had a poor game and didn't seem himself but J Og Burns is a tremendous player.
McVeety got purposely hit in the face clearly 3 times during the game which resulted in 1 yellow card for Morgan. I don't get how they were any less of a red card than Brady's swing back? Faulkner's black was an outrageous decision. Confusion about the red for Donaghy, was it a second yellow? He had the yellow in his hand. Had to be a straight red surely. We were hard done by with the ref for sure.
Cavan were lucky that Armagh were just too inept to go on and win the game. Our lads dug in hard but once again it needed Mackey to come on and rescue the situation. Gearoid kicking that free wide in extra time was unforgivable. He spent some of last week in hospital and wasn't fully recovered today which was evident, he looked jaded but to be fair, he managed to win that kickout at the end and make a chance for Mackey to win it.
Hard to know what some of the Cavan players roles are. What does Oisin Kiernan do apart from move the ball over and back? Martin Reilly was extremely poor but well marshalled I suppose.
I think the replay will be equally as close. Cavan don't have the shooters to hammer home possession dominance. Two determined division 2 sides. Neither Tyrone nor Donegal will be quaking in their boots.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 02, 2019, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.
The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.
Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.
Oh dear. Talk about seeing what you want. Cavan players were given carte Blanche to take as many steps as they wanted. Any time they were touched they got a free. Yet man McVeety, a good player, is an ejit. Starts pushing players and when they push back he turns to the umpire and cries. Actually I agree that the ref was pathetic. Also agree that the black card for Faulkner was wrong decision and Grimley was lucky to stay on the park. Shields got elbowed in the head. Clear red card. As was Donaghys
Jesus were you watching the game? Did you see the abuse Morgan gave McVeety for example. Even Whelan referred to it on the Sunday game. Oisin Pierson was being mounted in the second half of extra time in the FF line and the ref didn't want to know about it.
Quote from: sidelineball on June 02, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Neutral observer here.
Thought it was a good game but Cavan can certainly feel hard done by officiate.
Armagh seemed to get easier frees and the majority if not most of the 50/50 calls. The black cards were very harsh especially when Armagh players were let off for the same thing and I don't think Cavan red was warranted. Shields play acting got the man sent off.
Jamie Clarke had a poor game and didn't seem himself but J Og Burns is a tremendous player.
I wouldn't say Shields playacted. He did get a dig in the face.
Cavan black, wrong. Red, correct.
Rowland could have easily gone too for high strike.
It is amazing how people see things so differently! Why would anyone want to be a referee. Considering frees like the one the Cavan full forward won against Burns when he grabbed Burns around the neck I find it hard to see how anyone could say Armagh got the 50:50 calls.
McVeety is a very good player but he should cut out the crap. He was mouthing and digging at Morgan to try and get a reaction and Morgan stupidly reacted. I watched as McVeety pushed Morgan twice in the chest. Morgan reacted and pushed him in the face for which he could have seen red. McVeety went crying to the umpire. When Shields came on the first thing McVeety did was try and get a reaction from him. Shields is a bit more streetwise.
Think Cavan first black card was wrong. The red was correct. I assume Grimley got yellow because he went to kick the ball as McKernan dived on it. Not deliberate but it could have been red. Donaghy - unusually for him - let himself down.
As an aside. Can the referees find some way of getting players to take frees from right place. All now seem to get a 5 or 6 step advantage on every scoreable free.
PS for all those commenting on Armagh hitting late etc. It was interesting to hear those on the Sunday game complementing Armagh on their defensive discipline.
Both teams will come away thinking they could have won it and think they were hard done by. I thought McVeety was probably Cavan's best player and thought he did receive a bit of extra treatment (that's what teams do to the opposition's best players). There were too many mistakes to start singling them all out, don't want to start on tactics as i don't think we have any (bar getting everyone behind the ball) but the thing that pissed me off the most was trying to keep ball near the end and losing it. We deserved all we got for that.
The thing that normally happens in extra time is one team's fitness or a few scores take over and usually dominate the other team but what we witnessed today was two teams out on their feet during extra time and didn't have anything extra to give...Surprising both teams were like this...
Both sets of fans think the Ref gave them nothing...lol. Thought he was just ok TBH, if we all took off our blinkers off we'd see it differently (I include myself in that), what is one teams free is the other team getting robbed...lol.
Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2019, 11:42:16 PM
Both teams will come away thinking they could have won it and think they were hard done by. I thought McVeety was probably Cavan's best player and thought he did receive a bit of extra treatment (that's what teams do to the opposition's best players). There were too many mistakes to start singling them all out, don't want to start on tactics as i don't think we have any (bar getting everyone behind the ball) but the thing that pissed me off the most was trying to keep ball near the end and losing it. We deserved all we got for that.
The thing that normally happens in extra time is one team's fitness or a few scores takes over and usually dominate the other team but what we witnessed today was two teams out on their feet during extra time and didn't have anything extra to give...Surprising both teams were like this...
Both sets of fans think the Ref gave them nothing...lol. Thought he was just ok TBH, if we all took off our blinkers off we'd see it differently (I include myself in that), what is one teams free is the other team getting robbed...lol.
The problem in my opinion is not the referees but that the rules are to open to interpretation. If for example we take Grimley card. Was the referee correct as Grimley didn't do anything deliberately to hurt McKernan. Was he wrong because Grimley could not be expected to assume McKernan would dive on the ball as it wasn't a rugby match. Or was he wrong in that it should have been a red? The rules are not clear. Even the tackling. Sometimes a players holds the ball and gets done for overcarrying and other times he gets a free for an innocuous challenge. Until the rules are more clearly defined there won't be agreement and referees will get more abuse.
Sad to see that nothing much has changed in the orchard county. Cavan much the better team and didn't resort to the blatant thuggery that Armagh made famous.
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
I hope they get a decent strong ref like Gough for the next game that will be wise to mcgeeneys dirt and nip it in the bud early and a football game break out and let the best football team win.
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).
It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:23:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).
It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.
Difficult one. No way a red anyway. Grimley was lucky not to more seriously hurt himself there. Could have turned his knee inside out there like Tom Parsons' injury. There was no intent to kick McKiernan imo and even if was a bit reckless it was a yellow at most. The ball was there and player dived in from blind side.
Quote from: moysider on June 03, 2019, 12:45:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:23:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).
It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.
Difficult one. No way a red anyway. Grimley was lucky not to more seriously hurt himself there. Could have turned his knee inside out there like Tom Parsons' injury. There was no intent to kick McKiernan imo and even if was a bit reckless it was a yellow at most. The ball was there and player dived in from blind side.
Players are responsible for the safety of other players, which is why Mooney's red card in the last round was correct. Grimley should definitely have received a red; probably what saved him was that McKiernan didn't make a meal of it, unlike the Armagh player's reaction to the Mooney tackle. Cavan need to be a bit more streetwise
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
Not at all. McVeety shoves Morgan first then Morgan shoves him back. McVeety cries to the umpires. Happened a couple of times.
To say Grimley deliberately drew the boot because he saw your man go down for it is ridiculous. And yeah people go to kick it at times like that. ESP late in a game
Armagh were lucky but also probably should have won it. A lot of the Armagh forwards had an off day and I would hope for improvements there next day. Although it is difficult for them considering the amount of defensive work they have to put in.
No complaints about the reds. Grimley's was a yellow for me and the ref had some strange inconsistencies regarding what he deemed a black card.
Mackey was fantastic when introduced. The only surprise is that he didn't kick that winner.
Armagh trying to hang onto a one point lead by fist passing across the backline is a painful watch. I would much rather that they have a bit more courage to attack and if needs be lose the ball higher up the pitch, or of course score themselves.
After Jarly óg won the first throw in Cavan obviously decided that they would just blatantly take him out by the roots for any throw in thereafter. Something the ref was happy enough with.
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 12:08:48 AM
I hope they get a decent strong ref like Gough for the next game that will be wise to mcgeeneys dirt and nip it in the bud early and a football game break out and let the best football team win.
I thought someone had stolen your password you were being that reasonable before the game but you've returned to form now ;)
That said I find it very difficult to defend James Morgan. I've said it umpteen times on here, he's a liability. Geezer did the right thing in hooking him before he got the inevitable second yellow. Niall Grimley's kick was clearly reckless play and a yellow card, no more. Armagh competed very well against a team playing a division higher than them and I'd see the glass as half full after the game. No reason to think we can't compete the next day. Hopefully Jarly Og is fit as he's been a revelation in fairness. I'd be worried that McKiernan can't play as poorly again though. Soupy Campbell was the only man to show leadership in the extra time. He repeatedly showed for the ball when others were hiding. He tried to drive us forward when others were dithering and deserved his point.
Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.
The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.
Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.
Would be great if people could comment on the game without the hysterics. This is the kind of nonsense that I can't abide on here the day after a game. Throughout the game, I thought Armagh had to work harder for their frees, but in the interest of correcting for my own inevitable bias, it's better to say nothing instead of making a fool of myself. Others might want to do the same.
Let's imagine that all of the incidents that annoyed you, were instead perpetrated by Cavan players. Let's also imagine that all of the Cavan fouls were perpetrated by Armagh players. It will take some convincing to persuade me that you wouldn't still be defending Cavan and calling out McGeeney and Armagh for all the dirt of the day. You'll say not; but that's the way football supporters are I suppose.
In terms of the football - really enjoyed it. Had the feel of a game 10-20 years ago. Big crowd in Clones and plenty of drama and atmosphere. Same for the Down match. Cian Mackey is a serious footballer - really enjoy watching him and thought he was do a job for Cavan when he came on yesterday. Armagh had a couple of decent chances to win. Rafferty and Clarke missed good chances from play in scorable positions. Paul Hughes had a chance to go 5 up shortly after the goal. The business of defending a 1 point by retaining possession inside your own 50 is very risky and would put years on you.
I cannot understand why Armagh didn't push up on Cavan's kickouts. When they did, Galligan hit two balls over the sideline. Cavan scored 17 points and didn't give away possession easily, so I would be very wary of allowing them this cheap possession next week.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.
Quote from: APM on June 03, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 02, 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Just checking in that shields is ok, I believe he died 3 times today before being revived.
The referee was an embarrassment and not the first time cavan have suffered at his hands. Faulkner black was pathetic refereeing. Mcvetty was mauled, pulled and dragged all day and barely got a free. One foul for a cavan man was yellow, Armagh got away with all sorts of filth. Typical mcgeeney shite, all about the black arts against a weak referee.
Disappointed with a few of our lads and they'll have to really improve next time. Gearoid went missing for too long. Martin Reilly at FF didn't work and Madden totally out of the game. Yet I think there is more for cavan to improve on next day and that hopefully will see them through.
Would be great if people could comment on the game without the hysterics. This is the kind of nonsense that I can't abide on here the day after a game. Throughout the game, I thought Armagh had to work harder for their frees, but in the interest of correcting for my own inevitable bias, it's better to say nothing instead of making a fool of myself. Others might want to do the same.
Thank you for taking the time to write that. I simply could not have been bothered. Trying to ask some people on this forum to
try and be objective is simply a futile exercise.
Think some of the Armagh forwards were starting to believe their own hype so hopefully yesterday brought a few of them back down to earth. Really a game Armagh should have won, chances weren't taken that should have been, numerical advantage as well as on the scoreboard but somehow let slip. Cavan to me are really well organised and seemed to have a spare man when down to 14 whereas Armagh looked reluctant to push on and break tackles when the game was in the melting pot; felt we had to try and peg on another score to put more daylight between the sides when four points up. Didn't see the point in bringing on Murnin if they weren't going to play any ball into him. Donaghy is an eejit, don't know what he was thinking and is lucky Cavan didn't get a point as a result. Kickouts need worked on as does the throw in. James Morgan and one or two others need to be more disciplined, especially in the face of provocation from Cavan players.
On the positive side of things we live to fight another day. Mackey when he came on was outstanding finding space to shoot and nearly won the game for Cavan, however When they had that momentum plenty of fight was shown and we managed to keep them out. Thought Stefan Campbell was unlucky to be subbed off as he seemed to be the only one wanting to drive at the Cavan defence and take men on, seemed refreshed when he came back on again though. Jarly Og put in a good performance as did Jemar Hall and Aidan Nugent. It's difficult to call a winner, Cavan on paper will be favourites for the replay but if Armagh can tidy up a bit at the back and be a tad more adventurous up front then who knows
Quote from: naka on June 03, 2019, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.
Yeah I think I saw McVeety throw an elbow as it's not often Shields loses his cool. Would need to watch the match coverage again later though. Cavan are the perennial yaps though ;)
Observations on the game:
Again Armagh cannot seem to dominate a team and put a game to bed.
The ref was inconsistent with his decision making throughout for both teams. Both teams can feel hard done by for some but not all decisions. The game might be getting to fast for 1 man in the middle to handle.
Grimley trying to kick the ball, I think he made a genuine attempt at that, and leaving a stray foot out he is lucky nothing worse happened him.
Its refreshing to see two young hungry players stepping up to the plate and taking the burden of responsibility for the team in Burns and O'Neil. Both again stood out and look well beyond their years.
Mackay is a class act and a great player to watch, always seems to make the correct decision and hungry to get on the ball, he turned the game in my opinion.
Now that both teams know what each other is about, not sure how next week is going to fair out. I doubt Burns will have the impact in the middle he did yesterday, and I doubt Reily is going to be as quiet next time out either.
As mentioned on the tv, Ulster has delivered some cracking games so far.
Quote from: naka on June 03, 2019, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.
the incident where Burns got hurt was actually a collision between him and Grimley. Only major one the ref got wrong was Cavans first black card, wasnt a dirty game
Quote from: gander on June 03, 2019, 10:37:26 AM
Quote from: naka on June 03, 2019, 10:05:15 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
tbf westside the same could be said for the two challenges on burns one of which resulted in stitches and concussion. it was obvious both times that he was being taken out.
as the guys say we all see what we want to see.
decent game, draw was a fair result and for me both sending offs were correct.
your number 11 could have seen red earlier for the smack on shields which was straight across from where i was sitting and was uncalled for as both guys weren`t at any shananigans.
the incident where Burns got hurt was actually a collision between him and Grimley. Only major one the ref got wrong was Cavans first black card, wasnt a dirty game
While he did collide with Grimley if you watch it again you will see what actually happened to cause the collision
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
Aye, and they cant abide being called out for it either. I have no problem saying that Brady was a correct red, as was Moynaghs black. I have no problem being annoyed at Brady's poor discipline, I'd say Mickey is raging at him. But the constant persistent fouling by for example Shields on McVitty goes unpunished then when another player does one foul (ie mckiernan) and gets a yellow right away. Once Armagh saw this they fouled repeatedly. Sure we even have their chief spoofer Aidan O Rourke on RTE talking about fouling as game management.
Like i said, get a proper ref in next week and lets see who wins a football match, not a game of black arts. If it is Armagh that win it then best of luck to them. Bottom line, Referees have a responsibility to cut out persistent tactical fouling and fouling off the ball and Armagh got cart blanche on that yesterday in my opinion.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
The same could be said for you boys. It's great isn't it. How differently opposing fans view the same thing. FWIW I think Grimley was lucky to stay on but to suggest he deliberately tried to hurt your player is wise of the mark. I also think your full backs black card was the wrong call
Quote from: moysider on June 03, 2019, 12:45:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:23:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
The players lined up for the throw in, McVeety put out his hand to shake hands with Morgan and got a shoulder to the chest for his troubles so Dara gave him a few shoves in return. Morgan then fouled McVeety trying to go through him on the ground and Cavan got a score from the free. Then in response to more pulling and dragging off the ball Dara pushed him and Morgan pushed Dara in the face, inexplicably got a yellow and he got moved off him and then subbed when it was clear he was a walking liability. And of course you go to the umpire when you've just been struck in the face, you're entitled to look for fair play from the officials.
But yes, McVeety should cut out the crap....
As for saying Grimley went to kick the ball as McKiernan dived on it, since when does a player draw the boot on a ball loose ball instead of going to win it? He deliberately drew the boot on it because he saw McKiernan going to win it, clearly deliberate dangerous play.
The Sunday game are commending Armagh for defensive discipline and you're admitting that they had 1 deserved red and could have easily had 2 more. Interesting indeed.
If you think Grimley deliberately went to hurt McKernan you are way out of line. Jamie Clarke drew the boot on the ball in front of goal - who was he trying to hurt?
As for the comments on the reds I was trying to give a view on what is possible and not what I thought was correct.
He doesn't need to try to hurt him for it to be red. He needs to put him in danger, which he did. He drew the boot on the ball when he saw McKiernan was diving for it, could have caught him in the head. Should have been a red.
That is the key - he didn't (although I do need to watch the incident again).
It's not the key, connecting or not connecting is irrelevant. You can't wildly draw the boot on a ball when a man is diving in head first to win it. It's the act that's dangerous play not the result. And he did connect, just not in the head.
Difficult one. No way a red anyway. Grimley was lucky not to more seriously hurt himself there. Could have turned his knee inside out there like Tom Parsons' injury. There was no intent to kick McKiernan imo and even if was a bit reckless it was a yellow at most. The ball was there and player dived in from blind side.
This can not be anything but a WUM making this comment. He could have injured himself wildly drawing the boot.
The ref was shocking. Morgan fouled three times early on going through McVeety and not even a tick. Then hit Mcveety a box which linesman called and a yellow.
From watching on tv the ref got most calls right bar the first black.
Wasnt an easy game to referee with all the shenanigans though and if players decide to go down that route then it is pointless fans blaming the referee.
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
Aye, and they cant abide being called out for it either. I have no problem saying that Brady was a correct red, as was Moynaghs black. I have no problem being annoyed at Brady's poor discipline, I'd say Mickey is raging at him. But the constant persistent fouling by for example Shields on McVitty goes unpunished then when another player does one foul (ie mckiernan) and gets a yellow right away. Once Armagh saw this they fouled repeatedly. Sure we even have their chief spoofer Aidan O Rourke on RTE talking about fouling as game management.
Like i said, get a proper ref in next week and lets see who wins a football match, not a game of black arts. If it is Armagh that win it then best of luck to them. Bottom line, Referees have a responsibility to cut out persistent tactical fouling and fouling off the ball and Armagh got cart blanche on that yesterday in my opinion.
I thought McKernan got yellow for persistent fouling. He was lucky he didn't get a black card for hauling Grimley to the ground just before half time. Off the ball and right in front of linesman.
Anyway reading this the referee for next week knows that Cavan are angels and when Armagh go for the ball and get it it is a pour accident as their true intention is to maul their opponent. ::)
As a neutral, I don't think you can say the referee favoured either side.
Grimley definitely should have gone as it was very reckless. The black card for the Cavan lad was the wrong call and should have been a yellow.
Thought Cavan got some extremely generous frees over the course of the game, there was one in the first half where the Cavan player locked his arm around Hughes and got the free, think Burns had another free given against him when he was charged through.
McVeety is an excellent player, he got the kind of attention you expect him to get, from my viewing seemed well able to hand and give it back in spades.
Armagh's discipline does let them down though, they really lack an Andy Mallon style player in the that defence who doesn't committ too early and can hold the man up with the ball. Burns was superb for Armagh and I thought Forker had a great game and really seems to have cut the nonsense out that he used to persist with.
Mackey made a huge contribution for Cavan when he came on, thought Moynagh was really good too and McVeety. McKiernan had a mixed game, he is easily one of the top midfielders in the game, he has it all but he tries to do too much at times and took on some very inudlgent scores.
Quote from: Throw ball on June 03, 2019, 01:09:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
Aye, and they cant abide being called out for it either. I have no problem saying that Brady was a correct red, as was Moynaghs black. I have no problem being annoyed at Brady's poor discipline, I'd say Mickey is raging at him. But the constant persistent fouling by for example Shields on McVitty goes unpunished then when another player does one foul (ie mckiernan) and gets a yellow right away. Once Armagh saw this they fouled repeatedly. Sure we even have their chief spoofer Aidan O Rourke on RTE talking about fouling as game management.
Like i said, get a proper ref in next week and lets see who wins a football match, not a game of black arts. If it is Armagh that win it then best of luck to them. Bottom line, Referees have a responsibility to cut out persistent tactical fouling and fouling off the ball and Armagh got cart blanche on that yesterday in my opinion.
I thought McKernan got yellow for persistent fouling. He was lucky he didn't get a black card for hauling Grimley to the ground just before half time. Off the ball and right in front of linesman.
Anyway reading this the referee for next week knows that Cavan are angels and when Armagh go for the ball and get it it is a pour accident as their true intention is to maul their opponent. ::)
Ah now the ref wouldn't need to read this thread to know that, just watching Ulster football for the past number of years he'd know that. :P
Likelihood is that the new ref will have at least a passing interest in football and will have watched the game. Won't need to read the silly talk here. The Faulkner black was clearly wrong. Everything else looked correct or arguable. The man in middle who gets one view in real time did ok.
We have some tackling issue but the talk on here is off the chart and easily ignored for what it is.
No cheap cards must be a key consideration of every player. Its basically volunteering to be subbed in the modern game and does nothing to help your team or team mates.
We need to ask more questions of Cavan. They are very much set up to play with and therefore against a sweeper. They were constantly trying to stretch us wide. We did nothing to do the same to them and nullify the sweeper. We have the means to do this. Just need to go for it
From a tweet i saw.
Yesterday was Cian Mackey 128th game for Cavan and his 0-3 took his tally to 7-124. His 15th season - made senior intercounty as a minor in 2005.
And now Armagh talking about appealing donaghy red. Jokers. It should be doubled for wasting GAA time.
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
And now Armagh talking about appealing donaghy red. Jokers. It should be doubled for wasting GAA time.
They said they would look at the video. The video will show there's no chance of getting off.
Mickey Graham seems to be making progress with Cavan. If he keeps this going for 2 or 3 seasons ...
Quote from: seafoid on June 03, 2019, 04:26:10 PM
Mickey Graham seems to be making progress with Cavan. If he keeps this going for 2 or 3 seasons ...
Traditionally Cavan tend to crumble when a man down in tight games and are dire in replays. Hopefully it's 2 out of 2 in that regard next week.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 03, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
And now Armagh talking about appealing donaghy red. Jokers. It should be doubled for wasting GAA time.
They said they would look at the video. The video will show there's no chance of getting off.
Yup, McCorry said afterwards they'd look at video to see if they'll appeal.
But there is no grounds for appeal, as we seen later on TV. End of story.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 03, 2019, 06:27:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 03, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
And now Armagh talking about appealing donaghy red. Jokers. It should be doubled for wasting GAA time.
They said they would look at the video. The video will show there's no chance of getting off.
Yup, McCorry said afterwards they'd look at video to see if they'll appeal.
But there is no grounds for appeal, as we seen later on TV. End of story.
"He was adamant he didn't come down on him and the umpire said there was nothing in it"
Umpire is as blind as the ref so
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 07:00:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 03, 2019, 06:27:14 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 03, 2019, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 03, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
And now Armagh talking about appealing donaghy red. Jokers. It should be doubled for wasting GAA time.
They said they would look at the video. The video will show there's no chance of getting off.
Must have been the same umpire that missed the elbow on Shields right in front of him so. Donaghy's was just plain stupid can't complain about it.
Yup, McCorry said afterwards they'd look at video to see if they'll appeal.
But there is no grounds for appeal, as we seen later on TV. End of story.
"He was adamant he didn't come down on him and the umpire said there was nothing in it"
Umpire is as blind as the ref so
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
And if you read other articles they said they would make a decision on the appeal after the watch the video footage.
Thought McGeeney be banned for player inference as Barton when Derry manager got 2 months interacting with Tyrone players
Strange feeling at the end of the game, 51% of me felt like Armagh left it behind, 49% thinking we'll take the draw. Great game served up by two pretty average teams. Both were frightened with the winning line in sight, especially Armagh when trying to defend a 1 point lead on their own 21m line with several minutes to go, that was madness. As was surrendering the Cavan kick-outs time and again. Hopefully they will learn to push up the next day.
Surprised Cavan didn't try big high balls into the square, instead they were happy to play it backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards etc etc. As did Armagh as well, was infuriating to see balls being played backwards when men were free up front. Jamie Clarke does alot of running and showing for the ball, but seems to have lost the cutting edge for the score that he had a couple of years ago. Hopefully he'll prove that comment wrong next Sunday.
The thing that pissed me off the most about yesterday's result ... I'm on a flight to the US next Sunday for work, and won't be touching down until 8pm Irish time ... will be searching for a signal on the mobile somewhere over Newfoundland to see if I can find the result!
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they’re caught it’s a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
At least he doesn't really do media duties anymore so we won't have to suffer him playing victim to them all week trying to get into referee's head to let everything go next day out.
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 03, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
At least he doesn't really do media duties anymore so we won't have to suffer him playing victim to them all week trying to get into referee's head to let everything go next day out.
Would it have any impact with the amount of crying Cavan have been doing
Some yapping and complaining on here FFS, both teams had decisions that went against them. Both teams had decisions that went for them, both teams were involved in the dark arts. Dry your eyes and just look forward to the replay and may the best team win, If Cavan beat Armagh next Sunday i'll wish them all the best for the Ulster Final.
Quote from: balladmaker on June 03, 2019, 10:57:57 PM
The thing that pissed me off the most about yesterday's result ... I'm on a flight to the US next Sunday for work, and won't be touching down until 8pm Irish time ... will be searching for a signal on the mobile somewhere over Newfoundland to see if I can find the result!
Don't get the result and watch the thing on GaaGo when you get to the hotel.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 04, 2019, 12:06:30 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 03, 2019, 10:57:57 PM
The thing that pissed me off the most about yesterday's result ... I'm on a flight to the US next Sunday for work, and won't be touching down until 8pm Irish time ... will be searching for a signal on the mobile somewhere over Newfoundland to see if I can find the result!
Don't get the result and watch the thing on GaaGo when you get to the hotel.
Good idea, hadn't thought of that!
Quote from: balladmaker on June 04, 2019, 12:34:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 04, 2019, 12:06:30 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 03, 2019, 10:57:57 PM
The thing that pissed me off the most about yesterday's result ... I'm on a flight to the US next Sunday for work, and won't be touching down until 8pm Irish time ... will be searching for a signal on the mobile somewhere over Newfoundland to see if I can find the result!
Don't get the result and watch the thing on GaaGo when you get to the hotel.
Good idea, hadn't thought of that!
Just make sure to get a hotel with at least a modest Internet speed. Too many of these places think 1Mb/sec wifi is enough, it does GAABaord but not GAAGo.
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 03, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
At least he doesn't really do media duties anymore so we won't have to suffer him playing victim to them all week trying to get into referee's head to let everything go next day out.
Would it have any impact with the amount of crying Cavan have been doing
Remind me again who's crying about the red trying to get it rescinded?
Geezer would want to start coaching his assistant on how to do interviews as well. He came straight out and said their tactic was to take out Cavan's key men. A bit to learn from the master yet.
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 04, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 03, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
At least he doesn't really do media duties anymore so we won't have to suffer him playing victim to them all week trying to get into referee's head to let everything go next day out.
Would it have any impact with the amount of crying Cavan have been doing
Remind me again who's crying about the red trying to get it rescinded?
Geezer would want to start coaching his assistant on how to do interviews as well. He came straight out and said their tactic was to take out Cavan's key men. A bit to learn from the master yet.
And what exactly did McCorry say
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 04, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 03, 2019, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 03, 2019, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
At least he doesn't really do media duties anymore so we won't have to suffer him playing victim to them all week trying to get into referee's head to let everything go next day out.
Would it have any impact with the amount of crying Cavan have been doing
Remind me again who's crying about the red trying to get it rescinded?
Geezer would want to start coaching his assistant on how to do interviews as well. He came straight out and said their tactic was to take out Cavan's key men. A bit to learn from the master yet.
Can you read?
"The referee said Brendan had come down on the man, Brendan was fairly adamant that he hadn't so
we'll have a look at the video and we'll probably be appealing that one because Brendan's a key player for us," McCorry told the Belfast Telegraph.
They want to see what happened before they appeal. They don't get replays of incidents on the sideline. Pretty much all Armagh fans on here agree it was a red card. So as it stands nobody from Armagh is crying just a lot of Cavan fans.
Having watched the Down match twice (once at it once on tv) and the Cavan game on TV. I can honestly say I no longer know the rules of Gaelic football such is the inconsistency of approach taken between referees in games let alone between games. Then to top it all off Martin McHugh starts lauding the quality of refereeing. The situation isn't helped by an opaque rulebook with contradictory guides. After the Down game I went looking for a few specific rules I wanted clarification on. Namely what if any rules from the National league were retained, what the procedure is for a substitution after a black card. What the rule is on persistent fouling and what the duties of the umpires and/or linesmen are. I've either not been able to find them or I've found conflicting information. None of that assists referees.
Anyway rant over but with the above in mind I thought the following about the match.
1. Armagh the better side until the sending off and should have won.
2. The refereeing was atrocious towards both teams.
3. The first black card was wrong.
4. Both red cards were right but there could have been more.
5. Cavan and Armagh were both involved with dirty cheap hits..
6. Armagh were tactically poor particularly on kick outs but retain some very good footballers. I just worry we area less than the sum of our parts.
7. Jarly OG will be a big miss next week and could be the difference.
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 04, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
It is certainly a worry. At no stage during that game, or the down game for that matter, was I confident of seeing the game out
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 04, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
It is an underlying issue which now dates back at least two years. We were having this conversation when Tipperary beat us with the last kick of the ball in the last match of the 2017 league. There is no doubt there is a mental fragility there.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on June 04, 2019, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 04, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
It is an underlying issue which now dates back at least two years. We were having this conversation when Tipperary beat us with the last kick of the ball in the last match of the 2017 league. There is no doubt there is a mental fragility there.
It is strange as we have gotten over the line in a couple of close games also
Watching the game after listening to it on the radio I thought we did ok. It was a good game but that was becuase it was 2 evenly matched teams who both tried to play the game. I personally thought the ref was fair and got most things right. First black card was wrong and Grimley was a bit lucky but bar that he let the game flow and it wasn't really a dirty game anyway.
From an Armagh point of view kickouts are killing us. There needs to be work done to sort that out. We had an extra man and could not isolate one person for a short kick out and that was a worry. The game intelligence and leadership on the field is lacking and that was the same against Down. This is something experience should bring but there was experience on the field in Shields, Donaghy and Forker so they should really have been taking control but they weren't.
Burns was excellent in open play and covering the ground but in many ways midfield was blitzed also. It was obviously Grimley's first game in a while so hopefully that will have brought him on a lot. I also think that a start for Crealy in place of Grugan might assist in the MF area and really should be considered as he has done well in both games since he has come in.
Replay is in Cavan's favour in my view. They would have been slight favourites on Sunday and generally favourites win replays. If Burns is definitely out then I reckon it will be a Cavan win with a bit to spare but it all comes down to who learns the most from the drawn game.
Quote from: Westside on June 03, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Some serious Groupthink going on among Armagh supporters here. McVeety is at fault for Morgan hitting him in the face. Cavan took out the Armagh player at the throw despite the fact that he ran into his own man and concussed himself. Grimley innocently went to draw the boot on a loose ball and had no idea there was a 6'6" man in bright blue going down to gather the ball.
Don't convince yourselves the score was different or you might miss the replay.
Only one you are incorrect here was Grimley, in my view Cavan player went down on the ball, Grimley had already committed to kick and yellow was correct. No intent just mistimed.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 04, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
Maybe because I was only watching after listening to it I didn't get the impression Cavan were ever there to be killed off the way Down were. Obviously over the last couple of years what you describe has been a major problem but I think it was more pronounced in other games. For example against Meath this year Armagh valiantly fought themselves back into the game then changed tactics and were blown away. Similarly against Kildare well in command then changed tactics so to answer your question based on the rest of the year I'd have serious concerns over the management but on Sunday only those concerns wouldn't be as pronounced as Cavan seemed to improve rather than an overt tactical change from Armagh changing the game.
As a neutral I thought the referee was abysmal to both sides. As Colm O'Rourke says 'wee men shouldn't be refereeing big games'. It now appears that any incidental contact is deemed a free, [Aidan Forker got awarded a free for no actual contact whatsoever], and usually a yellow card as well. Think there was something like 12 yellows 2 reds and a black in this game and it was by no means a dirty game.
These vertically challenged referees, of which there is a disproportionately high number in GAA, do not have the stature to control the game and therefore just blow absolutely everything and use cards to control the match in case it would get out of hand.
IMO only Donaghy deserved a straight red yesterday for a sneaky hit and about half the frees awarded should have been waved on. The game is dead if referees are blowing a free for a player handing off someone tackling them., It's a mans game let them sort it out themselves.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 04, 2019, 09:48:36 AM
As a neutral I thought the referee was abysmal to both sides. As Colm O'Rourke says 'wee men shouldn't be refereeing big games'. It now appears that any incidental contact is deemed a free, [Aidan Forker got awarded a free for no actual contact whatsoever], and usually a yellow card as well. Think there was something like 12 yellows 2 reds and a black in this game and it was by no means a dirty game.
These vertically challenged referees, of which there is a disproportionately high number in GAA, do not have the stature to control the game and therefore just blow absolutely everything and use cards to control the match in case it would get out of hand.
IMO only Donaghy deserved a straight red yesterday for a sneaky hit and about half the frees awarded should have been waved on. The game is dead if referees are blowing a free for a player handing off someone tackling them., It's a mans game let them sort it out themselves.
Because that would work well in the modern game :o
If referees took that approach every game would descend into a farce with rows breaking out all over the pitch
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 04, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
David there have been pages and pages now on refereeing and hits and cheap shots but is the fact that Armagh appear incapable of killing off opposition not a bigger worry? Are they lacking leadership on the pitch to finish the job? Is the problem on the sideline?
It was very obvious sitting in the McGrane stand that all but one player didn't want the ball when we were trying to play keep ball in those dying minutes. A number of players stood beside their markers and didn't give the player in possession an option. The one player who tried to lead and drive us forward was Soupy. In fairness to management there's nothing you can do in that situation if lads aren't willing to show for the ball. I presume that this will be shown to the players in the video analysis during the week and the players (bar Soupy) will get a rocket up their holes!
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2019, 09:59:15 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 04, 2019, 09:48:36 AM
As a neutral I thought the referee was abysmal to both sides. As Colm O'Rourke says 'wee men shouldn't be refereeing big games'. It now appears that any incidental contact is deemed a free, [Aidan Forker got awarded a free for no actual contact whatsoever], and usually a yellow card as well. Think there was something like 12 yellows 2 reds and a black in this game and it was by no means a dirty game.
These vertically challenged referees, of which there is a disproportionately high number in GAA, do not have the stature to control the game and therefore just blow absolutely everything and use cards to control the match in case it would get out of hand.
IMO only Donaghy deserved a straight red yesterday for a sneaky hit and about half the frees awarded should have been waved on. The game is dead if referees are blowing a free for a player handing off someone tackling them., It's a mans game let them sort it out themselves.
Because that would work well in the modern game :o
If referees took that approach every game would descend into a farce with rows breaking out all over the pitch
I was thinking more like the way hurling is refereed where a lot more physicality is let go. Don't see too many rows breaking out all over as a result.
And surely anything would work better than the fiasco we have at the minute, players going down under minimal contact knowing they will get a free... joke.
Watched the first 50 mins on tv last night. Yip our tackling is poor at times. Cavan's wasn't any better. Also a very evident trend of Cavan buying frees by initiating a tangle of arms or illegal fend off. Refs need to get wise to it. Agree that Forker bought a free with what is euphemistically referred to as anticipating contact but is in fact a dive.
The first 50 mins has also completely confirmed my first impression that our kick out strategy is something akin to suicide starting at the foot and working upwards. That has to change
Quote from: sidelineball on June 03, 2019, 09:43:48 PM
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299977
This sums up the mentality under McGeeney, he has the Armagh team running about with the chest out, constantly delivering late hits and up to aul dirt non stop and then when they're caught it's a crying match trying to get off with it.
McGeeney himself should have been banned for his blatant shoulder on McKernan the last day out. Embarrassing stuff appealing this.
Dry your eyes
What's with the Armagh obsession with 'crying'? Telling people on here to stop crying. Giving out about players 'crying'. Telling people to dry their eyes.
Is this where the oppressed rage comes from that causes the violent outbursts we saw on Sunday?
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 03:16:19 PM
What's with the Armagh obsession with 'crying'? Telling people on here to stop crying. Giving out about players 'crying'. Telling people to dry their eyes.
Is this where the oppressed rage comes from that causes the violent outbursts we saw on Sunday?
The players weren't crying it's Cavan fans
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 03:16:19 PM
What's with the Armagh obsession with 'crying'? Telling people on here to stop crying. Giving out about players 'crying'. Telling people to dry their eyes.
Is this where the oppressed rage comes from that causes the violent outbursts we saw on Sunday?
Which violent outbursts are you referring to?
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 03:16:19 PM
What's with the Armagh obsession with 'crying'? Telling people on here to stop crying. Giving out about players 'crying'. Telling people to dry their eyes.
Is this where the oppressed rage comes from that causes the violent outbursts we saw on Sunday?
::)
Straight after the game we had yourself and Itchy on here getting a bit hysterical about a very competitive game that was played by both teams in a very sporting manner.
Is this really about the football, or is it something else?
Just watched the game there.....agree that the ref was poor for both teams.....but even allowing for the conditions on the day...that was as poor as I've seen in a long time. I pity the fans that paid to see that.
Quote from: Insane Bolt on June 04, 2019, 03:48:12 PM
Just watched the game there.....agree that the ref was poor for both teams.....but even allowing for the conditions on the day...that was as poor as I've seen in a long time. I pity the fans that paid to see that.
It really is a bug bear of mine that Refs still haven't cottoned on to the forward trapping the arm to buy a free.
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
What was the Murray free for around 20 minutes? Even McHugh suggested the referee was conned.
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Itchy actually thinks there's a correlation between fouls and yellow cards. ;D ;D As if there's some sort of 'persistent fouling' concept. ;D ;D Next thing he'll be saying there's a correlation between kicking out at players on the ground and hitting players in the face and red cards. What a fool.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Looks like your talking about cynical fouling. If anything Armagh was guilty of being completely naive in their approach to the game.
I would love to see a breakdown of where on the pitch Armagh gave away the frees. People used to talk about teams cynically fouling between the two 50's and out near the sideline in order to break momentum. That is all about game management, repeated fouling and "seeing out the game".
The reality is that an awful lot of Armagh's fouling was pure clumsy, stupid and done inside the 40 which resulted in simple tap over frees for Cavan. Some of the players were too stupid to be cynical on Sunday and their fouls were well and truly penalised whether yellow cards were issued or not. However, Cavan did miss a couple of very handy frees, including an unbelievable miss by McKiernan in front of the posts.
Paddy Neilan is the ref next Sunday.
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Itchy actually thinks there's a correlation between fouls and yellow cards. ;D ;D As if there's some sort of 'persistent fouling' concept. ;D ;D Next thing he'll be saying there's a correlation between kicking out at players on the ground and hitting players in the face and red cards. What a fool.
Itchy would want to learn about severity of fouls then.
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:51:10 PM
Paddy Neilan is the ref next Sunday.
He's actually a decent ref even though he gave Sligo a ghost penalty against us a few years ago
There was another instance when Galligan had his arm around Burns' neck and stood on his ankle. Cavan get the free.
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Itchy actually thinks there's a correlation between fouls and yellow cards. ;D ;D As if there's some sort of 'persistent fouling' concept. ;D ;D Next thing he'll be saying there's a correlation between kicking out at players on the ground and hitting players in the face and red cards. What a fool.
Which Armagh player should have been booked for persistent fouling? Name the player
Do you think Neiland will be on the look out for players trying to buy frees the next day? Too many of those freed given against Armagh simply weren't fouls.
The 2 reds were clear cut. There should be no appeal of the Donaghy red. Appealing that will do us no favours. Those suggesting Shields dived want to take a look at themselves. Grimley incident was arguably red, arguably yellow. Couldn't complain about it either way. Faulkner definitely shouldn't have got a black. It was a dirty challenge (just because the ref got it wrong let's not pretend the player is innocent) and a clear yellow.
Morgan picks up too many cards so when on a yellow and getting it tight against his man McGeeney was right to haul him ashore but on watching it back I'm not sure what Morgan is booked for. He was booked in the 16th minute for his 4th foul. The first one was clear cut, the second (is a foul) but only occurs after McVeety initiates the fouling. Not clear what the third foul is? 4 fouls in 16 mins isn't great.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 04, 2019, 09:06:01 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Free count
Armagh conceded 28
Cavan conceded 18
Yellow card count?
I'm assuming there's a point to this
There is. If I have to explain it you're probably best to stay out of the conversation
Aw poor little scratchy. Thinks just because you commit more fouls means you should get more yellow cards. Maybe it's you who should stay out of the conversation
Itchy actually thinks there's a correlation between fouls and yellow cards. ;D ;D As if there's some sort of 'persistent fouling' concept. ;D ;D Next thing he'll be saying there's a correlation between kicking out at players on the ground and hitting players in the face and red cards. What a fool.
Which Armagh player should have been booked for persistent fouling? Name the player
Do you think Neiland will be on the look out for players trying to buy frees the next day? Too many of those fouls given against Armagh simply weren't fouls.
The 2 reds were clear cut. There should be no appeal of the Donaghy red. Appealing that will do us no favours. Those suggestion Shields dived want to take a look at themselves. Grimley incidents was arguably red, arguably yellow. Couldn't complain about it either way. Faulkner definitely shouldn't have got a black. It was a dirty challenge (just because the red got it wrong let's not pretend the player is innocent) and a clear yellow.
Morgan picks up too many cards so when on a yellow and getting it tight against his man McGeeney was right to haul him ashore but on watching it back I'm not sure what Morgan is booked for. He was booked in the 16th minute for his 4th foul. The first on was clear cut, the second (is a foul) but only occurs after McVeety initiates the foul. Not clear what the third foul is? 4 fouls in 16 mins isn't great.
Very fair balanced analysis. I'm really surprised at some of the irrational nonsense I'm reading on here from Cavan supporters.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8fITzlPgA0
Is that Itchy on the left?
I've no doubt Paddy will have watched the game back and will be ready for the persistent fouling from Armagh. Then football will break out and the best team will win.
morgan is the dirtiest player in ireland ffs
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 10:03:11 PM
I've no doubt Paddy will have watched the game back and will be ready for the persistent fouling from Armagh. Then football will break out and the best team will win.
You forgot to include the part where he looks out for Cavan trying to con the referee.
Quote from: shyted on June 04, 2019, 10:06:36 PM
morgan is the dirtiest player in ireland ffs
Of course he is. And sure didn't he shoot Kennedy. Wasn't it the dealing men from Crossmaglen that put whiskey in Michelle Smith's pish?? Pure dirt
Quote from: Solo_run on June 04, 2019, 10:08:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 10:03:11 PM
I've no doubt Paddy will have watched the game back and will be ready for the persistent fouling from Armagh. Then football will break out and the best team will win.
You forgot to include the part where he looks out for Cavan trying to con the referee.
Funny feeling Neiland will lay a marker down on that one early doors
Have to say the Armagh crowd around me were very well mannered. Not like them in my experience. Big group of lads in the terrace from Armagh brought a lot to the atmosphere. Fair play to them. Hopefully the replay will be as good and more will show from Cavan.
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 10:17:56 PM
Have to say the Armagh crowd around me were very well mannered. Not like them in my experience. Big group of lads in the terrace from Armagh brought a lot to the atmosphere. Fair play to them. Hopefully the replay will be as good and more will show from Cavan.
I thought there was a good crowd from Cavan. Atmosphere was good and everything was done in good spirits which was great
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 04, 2019, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 04, 2019, 10:17:56 PM
Have to say the Armagh crowd around me were very well mannered. Not like them in my experience. Big group of lads in the terrace from Armagh brought a lot to the atmosphere. Fair play to them. Hopefully the replay will be as good and more will show from Cavan.
I thought there was a good crowd from Cavan. Atmosphere was good and everything was done in good spirits which was great
At end of the game, I got a tap on the shoulder from an elderly Cavan gentleman sitting in the row behind me. He just wanted to shake hands and share thoughts on the game. A nice touch that you don't get every day at a game.
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Not too long after the Cavan player fell to the ground trying to get Shields sent off.
Quote from: Solo_run on June 04, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Not too long after the Cavan player fell to the ground trying to get Shields sent off.
You are some joker, shields was down clutching his face 3 times. On one occasion he was so bad he left mcvetty run around inside the 20m line as he play acted and mcvetty ended up scoring. Soon as it went over he miraculously jumped up unharmed to complain to the referee and umpires. The fact he'd been dragging mcvetty for the previous 5 minutes was lost on him. No comment on the video though, how will you spin that I wonder.
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
What's the story here? Is there some crazed sexual fantasist claiming Shields stuck the finger McMenamin style up McVeety's hoop and this is evidence of it?
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
What's the story here? Is there some crazed sexual fantasist claiming Shields stuck the finger McMenamin style up McVeety's hoop and this is evidence of it?
Saw Shields at this down in front of me too. Is poking around at your marker's rear end a common thing in Armagh? Genuine question. We wouldn't really see this much in club football down here. Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Dara thankfully didnt seem too bothered so no harm, let Shields poke away to his heart's content.
Quote from: Itchy on June 05, 2019, 07:18:57 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 04, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Not too long after the Cavan player fell to the ground trying to get Shields sent off.
You are some joker, shields was down clutching his face 3 times. On one occasion he was so bad he left mcvetty run around inside the 20m line as he play acted and mcvetty ended up scoring. Soon as it went over he miraculously jumped up unharmed to complain to the referee and umpires. The fact he'd been dragging mcvetty for the previous 5 minutes was lost on him. No comment on the video though, how will you spin that I wonder.
There is a video of Shields talking to the ref about Cavan players throwing the elbow. Not long after that a Cavan player is given a red card for swinging his elbow into Shields jaw. That's not to mention the amount of tackles where Cavan have went for the neck.
https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4 (https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4)
https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w (https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w)
In the above video you can ses Shields explaining to the referee about previous incidents. Then the Cavan player falls to the ground.
https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE (https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE)
After a tackle around the neck of Grimley (which btw is not an isolated incident) again one of your players throws himself to the ground.
https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM (https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM)
Here is an occasion where Cavan were successful in conning the referee. Holding the defenders arm and going down.
Armagh are no saints but do not be trying to make Cavan as angels
Quote from: Westside on June 05, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
What's the story here? Is there some crazed sexual fantasist claiming Shields stuck the finger McMenamin style up McVeety's hoop and this is evidence of it?
Saw Shields at this down in front of me too. Is poking around at your marker's rear end a common thing in Armagh? Genuine question. We wouldn't really see this much in club football down here. Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Dara thankfully didnt seem too bothered so no harm, let Shields poke away to his heart's content.
No evidence of it in Armagh and if the allegation is sticking the finger up the hoop the is no evidence of it in the county scene either. Just a couple of fellas on here engaging in some fantasy. Would that be common around Cavan?
Neither team are angels and neither will be angelic this Sunday. Get a sense of perspective on objectivity. Not a lot of Cavan men lining up to give an opinion on the obvious Cavan tactic of buying frees and leading with a fend off with hand or arm. I'm perfectly willing to see the fault in Donaghy, the tactical deficiency of our management, Forker's dive and the ludicrousness of the argument that Grimley risked injury pulling on that ball but some of the Cavan folk here would give you the impression that Cavan schools haven't reopened since the big chill in '76
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 10:59:16 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 05, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
What's the story here? Is there some crazed sexual fantasist claiming Shields stuck the finger McMenamin style up McVeety's hoop and this is evidence of it?
Saw Shields at this down in front of me too. Is poking around at your marker's rear end a common thing in Armagh? Genuine question. We wouldn't really see this much in club football down here. Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Dara thankfully didnt seem too bothered so no harm, let Shields poke away to his heart's content.
No evidence of it in Armagh and if the allegation is sticking the finger up the hoop the is no evidence of it in the county scene either. Just a couple of fellas on here engaging in some fantasy. Would that be common around Cavan?
Neither team are angels and neither will be angelic this Sunday. Get a sense of perspective on objectivity. Not a lot of Cavan men lining up to give an opinion on the obvious Cavan tactic of buying frees and leading with a fend off with hand or arm. I'm perfectly willing to see the fault in Donaghy, the tactical deficiency of our management, Forker's dive and the ludicrousness of the argument that Grimley risked injury pulling on that ball but some of the Cavan folk here would give you the impression that Cavan schools haven't reopened since the big chill in '76
Well I dont know the nitty gritty of what a player does when he has his hand on another's arse. That's why I asked, nobody from Armagh seemed too surprised by the video so I presume you've seen it before. This situation would just be more of a resting of the hand on the rear end would it? To what end might I ask? Some manly compliment to his glute development perhaps?
Is Caolan Rafferty still working abroad? He was very good when Armagh reached the quarter finals in 2014
On the game in self, there was a few incidents but not really a dirty game for the most part.. Donaghy was dirty going down with the knees .. Grimley was reckless, he wasn't intending to kick McKiernan but going in like that with the boot didn't look great
Morgan use to be a decent corner back. He just fouls alot now and McGeeney had to take him off before he was sent off. Burns is a class midfielder
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 04, 2019, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: Insane Bolt on June 04, 2019, 03:48:12 PM
Just watched the game there.....agree that the ref was poor for both teams.....but even allowing for the conditions on the day...that was as poor as I've seen in a long time. I pity the fans that paid to see that.
It really is a bug bear of mine that Refs still haven't cottoned on to the forward trapping the arm to buy a free.
Fully agree. Jamie Clarke lucky not to get black on one particular occasion where he hauled Moynagh to the ground in front of ref. Got another incredibly soft free earlier.
Quote from: Westside on June 05, 2019, 11:09:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 10:59:16 AM
Quote from: Westside on June 05, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 05, 2019, 08:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
What's the story here? Is there some crazed sexual fantasist claiming Shields stuck the finger McMenamin style up McVeety's hoop and this is evidence of it?
Saw Shields at this down in front of me too. Is poking around at your marker's rear end a common thing in Armagh? Genuine question. We wouldn't really see this much in club football down here. Maybe it's a cultural thing?
Dara thankfully didnt seem too bothered so no harm, let Shields poke away to his heart's content.
No evidence of it in Armagh and if the allegation is sticking the finger up the hoop the is no evidence of it in the county scene either. Just a couple of fellas on here engaging in some fantasy. Would that be common around Cavan?
Neither team are angels and neither will be angelic this Sunday. Get a sense of perspective on objectivity. Not a lot of Cavan men lining up to give an opinion on the obvious Cavan tactic of buying frees and leading with a fend off with hand or arm. I'm perfectly willing to see the fault in Donaghy, the tactical deficiency of our management, Forker's dive and the ludicrousness of the argument that Grimley risked injury pulling on that ball but some of the Cavan folk here would give you the impression that Cavan schools haven't reopened since the big chill in '76
Well I dont know the nitty gritty of what a player does when he has his hand on another's arse. That's why I asked, nobody from Armagh seemed too surprised by the video so I presume you've seen it before. This situation would just be more of a resting of the hand on the rear end would it? To what end might I ask? Some manly compliment to his glute development perhaps?
The rear I presume.
Must have heard about all the tight arsed Cavan men and decided to check it out for himself.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 05, 2019, 03:30:55 PM
Must have heard about all the tight arsed Cavan men and decided to check it out for himself.
A cavan man wouldn't shove his finger up another man's arse....a sheep's arse...now that's another matter altogether....
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 05, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 05, 2019, 03:30:55 PM
Must have heard about all the tight arsed Cavan men and decided to check it out for himself.
A cavan man wouldn't shove his finger up another man's arse....a sheep's arse...now that's another matter altogether....
His finger?
Quote from: Solo_run on June 05, 2019, 10:26:37 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 05, 2019, 07:18:57 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 04, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Not too long after the Cavan player fell to the ground trying to get Shields sent off.
You are some joker, shields was down clutching his face 3 times. On one occasion he was so bad he left mcvetty run around inside the 20m line as he play acted and mcvetty ended up scoring. Soon as it went over he miraculously jumped up unharmed to complain to the referee and umpires. The fact he'd been dragging mcvetty for the previous 5 minutes was lost on him. No comment on the video though, how will you spin that I wonder.
There is a video of Shields talking to the ref about Cavan players throwing the elbow. Not long after that a Cavan player is given a red card for swinging his elbow into Shields jaw. That's not to mention the amount of tackles where Cavan have went for the neck.
https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4 (https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4)
https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w (https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w)
In the above video you can ses Shields explaining to the referee about previous incidents. Then the Cavan player falls to the ground.
https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE (https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE)
After a tackle around the neck of Grimley (which btw is not an isolated incident) again one of your players throws himself to the ground.
https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM (https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM)
Here is an occasion where Cavan were successful in conning the referee. Holding the defenders arm and going down.
Armagh are no saints but do not be trying to make Cavan as angels
Is this a joke.
Quote from: Itchy on June 05, 2019, 07:54:42 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 05, 2019, 10:26:37 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 05, 2019, 07:18:57 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 04, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 04, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
https://twitter.com/kevingsmith12/status/1136028964588281859?s=19
Not too long after the Cavan player fell to the ground trying to get Shields sent off.
You are some joker, shields was down clutching his face 3 times. On one occasion he was so bad he left mcvetty run around inside the 20m line as he play acted and mcvetty ended up scoring. Soon as it went over he miraculously jumped up unharmed to complain to the referee and umpires. The fact he'd been dragging mcvetty for the previous 5 minutes was lost on him. No comment on the video though, how will you spin that I wonder.
There is a video of Shields talking to the ref about Cavan players throwing the elbow. Not long after that a Cavan player is given a red card for swinging his elbow into Shields jaw. That's not to mention the amount of tackles where Cavan have went for the neck.
https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4 (https://youtu.be/EW6Tlgqskj4)
https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w (https://youtu.be/hKKfWKioq8w)
In the above video you can ses Shields explaining to the referee about previous incidents. Then the Cavan player falls to the ground.
https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE (https://youtu.be/htPNFsd2KpE)
After a tackle around the neck of Grimley (which btw is not an isolated incident) again one of your players throws himself to the ground.
https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM (https://youtu.be/888NPhU4ezM)
Here is an occasion where Cavan were successful in conning the referee. Holding the defenders arm and going down.
Armagh are no saints but do not be trying to make Cavan as angels
Is this a joke.
Is your reply a joke?
Now the dust has settled and we can view the game with cooler heads how do we see this one going? Expecting another tight physical battle. Not much between the two teams and whoever wins I really cannot see a particularly big margin. Armagh will feel they can play better. So do Cavan. Hopefully McKiernan will be back to full fitness and will have a big influence on things. If we can convert our free kicks better it will be worth an extra 3-4 points to us at least. Wonder will Graham spring any surprise additions to the panel with this in mind? Ciaran Brady will be a loss in defense and driving forward but needs to learn. It's very tough making that panel so it gives someone else a chance of reward for all the hard slog training wise.
Will Armagh set up similar and concede the kick outs. I think they will. McGeeney doesn't seem to like the element of risk and prefers to have an element of control over the factors. Think he will be happy to sit back in shape and soak up the attacks and then back his forwards to do enough to win it. Burns is a terrific player and will be crucial for Armagh. Hope he's ok for replay. Can Graham get better use out of Martin Reilly? Can the Cavan backs keep the shackles on the Armagh forwards again? I hope so. The extra week for Murnin could see him closer to full fitness though. All in all it makes for an intriguing contest and very hard one to call.
Referee watch. Think both sets of fans will be a bit nervous of what we're going to get in this department. Hopefully there are no major points of contention. What I liked about Cavan the last day was that they just got on with the game. Ball might have been moved on a few times for wrestling on the ground after the free but there was no serious mouthing to referee from players or sidelines. Previous years and maybe even in the early rounds of the league this year, we have had a tendency to turn refs against us especially from head cases on the sideline. Granted we didn't take advantage of any favours the ref done us but we didn't let the bad calls beat us. This mentality is vital in a team and hopefully it's a calming influence and maturity Graham has brought to us and we improve on it. End of the day if you're wishing the ref to win you a game you're not a serious championship team. Same with Armagh. They will look for whatever margins they can get but will get on with what type of game the ref is playing. Indeed both sets of management and players after the game never mentioned the ref and just complimented each other on a hard physical game. Don't expect the replay to be anything different. Good luck to both teams and may the best team win.
I dont think Cavan's defensive performance was any sort of one off. I dont expect Armagh to rack up a big score. Mickey will be happy enough to go for a similar system to last week. Dont cough up any goals and use the pace of the Murrays and Dara to greater effect and we can sneak a win.
If Armagh can keep the same level of intensity in defence and the ref allows the low level pulling and dragging then itll be another tough day for us. If he pulls Armagh on it from early on I think we could win by 3/4.
Interesting (maybe) aside from all the quarreling over who are the dirtiest shower of bastards!
Armagh or Cavan are going to set a record on Sunday! They are the only Ulster counties to have competed in Ulster Senior Finals in every decade since the GAA was founded. That record will be broken for one of them on Sunday.
Kick outs will be massive. Looking at the bit of the game before defender was red carded Cavan got to grips with our kick out early. They forced us to kick long into contested space and winning 50% of our kick outs. We only got 3 short uncontested kick outs away in that period. Critically there was no improvement when we had the man advantage.
We didn't contest the Cavan kick outs even with the man advantage. They had 14 short kick outs in the 70 mins. We contested 1. We won none (having committing a foul in the one we contested). We only forced them to kick long 3 times.
Our keeper takes stick and probably isn't blameless but the bigger picture is we need to give him better options and we need to make Cavan kick into contested space. Cavan pick of scores fro the possession we just let them have. This tactic needs to end now
The concession of kickouts (particularly being a man up) is very frustrating. Although Spillane highlighted Armagh's swarm tackle on Sunday evening, I thought Cavan were really strong at keeping possession finding space. I wouldn't be giving them that possession so cheaply,
Quote from: LCohen on June 06, 2019, 03:40:25 PM
Kick outs will be massive. Looking at the bit of the game before defender was red carded Cavan got to grips with our kick out early. They forced us to kick long into contested space and winning 50% of our kick outs. We only got 3 short uncontested kick outs away in that period. Critically there was no improvement when we had the man advantage.
We didn't contest the Cavan kick outs even with the man advantage. They had 14 short kick outs in the 70 mins. We contested 1. We won none (having committing a foul in the one we contested). We only forced them to kick long 3 times.
Our keeper takes stick and probably isn't blameless but the bigger picture is we need to give him better options and we need to make Cavan kick into contested space. Cavan pick of scores fro the possession we just let them have. This tactic needs to end now
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Geezer will change this. He likes structure and control and think forcing up on the kick outs and having a 50/50 contest for the ball near his own 65 with half his team in the Cavan half has too much of a lottery feel to it for his liking. He will trust his defenders to shackle Cavan and hope his forwards kick enough. He'll enjoy the chess game element to a game like that and will always back himself over another manager.
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
Quote from: LCohen on June 06, 2019, 03:40:25 PM
Kick outs will be massive. Looking at the bit of the game before defender was red carded Cavan got to grips with our kick out early. They forced us to kick long into contested space and winning 50% of our kick outs. We only got 3 short uncontested kick outs away in that period. Critically there was no improvement when we had the man advantage.
We didn't contest the Cavan kick outs even with the man advantage. They had 14 short kick outs in the 70 mins. We contested 1. We won none (having committing a foul in the one we contested). We only forced them to kick long 3 times.
Our keeper takes stick and probably isn't blameless but the bigger picture is we need to give him better options and we need to make Cavan kick into contested space. Cavan pick of scores fro the possession we just let them have. This tactic needs to end now
I found this absolutely baffling myself. McGeeney probably played on the fact so many players are 'safety first' and Mackay efforts on another day go wide or drop short (think he put one wide in ET) but thought it was a shocking error by him (and indeed the players).
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Quote from: Look-Up! on June 06, 2019, 01:07:35 PM
Now the dust has settled and we can view the game with cooler heads how do we see this one going? Expecting another tight physical battle. Not much between the two teams and whoever wins I really cannot see a particularly big margin. Armagh will feel they can play better. So do Cavan. Hopefully McKiernan will be back to full fitness and will have a big influence on things. If we can convert our free kicks better it will be worth an extra 3-4 points to us at least. Wonder will Graham spring any surprise additions to the panel with this in mind? Ciaran Brady will be a loss in defense and driving forward but needs to learn. It's very tough making that panel so it gives someone else a chance of reward for all the hard slog training wise.
Will Armagh set up similar and concede the kick outs. I think they will. McGeeney doesn't seem to like the element of risk and prefers to have an element of control over the factors. Think he will be happy to sit back in shape and soak up the attacks and then back his forwards to do enough to win it. Burns is a terrific player and will be crucial for Armagh. Hope he's ok for replay. Can Graham get better use out of Martin Reilly? Can the Cavan backs keep the shackles on the Armagh forwards again? I hope so. The extra week for Murnin could see him closer to full fitness though. All in all it makes for an intriguing contest and very hard one to call.
Referee watch. Think both sets of fans will be a bit nervous of what we're going to get in this department. Hopefully there are no major points of contention. What I liked about Cavan the last day was that they just got on with the game. Ball might have been moved on a few times for wrestling on the ground after the free but there was no serious mouthing to referee from players or sidelines. Previous years and maybe even in the early rounds of the league this year, we have had a tendency to turn refs against us especially from head cases on the sideline. Granted we didn't take advantage of any favours the ref done us but we didn't let the bad calls beat us. This mentality is vital in a team and hopefully it's a calming influence and maturity Graham has brought to us and we improve on it. End of the day if you're wishing the ref to win you a game you're not a serious championship team. Same with Armagh. They will look for whatever margins they can get but will get on with what type of game the ref is playing. Indeed both sets of management and players after the game never mentioned the ref and just complimented each other on a hard physical game. Don't expect the replay to be anything different. Good luck to both teams and may the best team win.
Agree with this. Despite the talk in here since Sunday it was a good game if football between two evenly matched teams. Will Sunday be the same? I'm not sure. I think we left it behind us but time will tell. Good luck to both teams but I'm hoping the Cavan lads aren't going home happy on Sunday
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
i hope our management aren't taking a chance with his health. Obv I'd love him to play. It if there is a chance he is concusses he should be nowhere near the game
Can anyone explain what Jarlath Og was at during two of the throw ins, one during normal time and the other during extra time when he went off. He seemed to run straight into his team mate each time or maybe it just looked like that from where I was sitting.
Quote from: balladmaker on June 06, 2019, 09:08:38 PM
Can anyone explain what Jarlath Og was at during two of the throw ins, one during normal time and the other during extra time when he went off. He seemed to run straight into his team mate each time or maybe it just looked like that from where I was sitting.
For the injury that forced him off, he was backing off and taking a run up to claim the ball. The Cavan player was making a line for him to take him out when Grimely cut across him to stop him from doing so. Grimley then got shoved into Burns who went down awkwardly and suffered a knock to the head.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/gaelic-games/48492752
On Sunday it was reported as "McCorry also confirmed that Jarlath Og Burns suffered a concussion at the start of extra-time."
Does t actually say he suffered concussion
Don't I he was definitely concussed on the side line, legs were gone and he was all over the shop. I'm not saying you can't recover from concussion in a week but if best medical practice says you don't play for 14 days then he shouldn't be playing. It would say a lot about player welfare for me if some stroke or loophole is found to allow him play. But would any manager do that, risk their players health? I'd hope not.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Might as well be direct about this - you are a liar and a malicious one at that
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Might as well be direct about this - you are a liar and a malicious one at that
If you say so.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Don't I he was definitely concussed on the side line, legs were gone and he was all over the shop. I'm not saying you can't recover from concussion in a week but if best medical practice says you don't play for 14 days then he shouldn't be playing. It would say a lot about player welfare for me if some stroke or loophole is found to allow him play. But would any manager do that, risk their players health? I'd hope not.
Who lying? McCorry said because of concussion protocol they wouldn't bring him back on again. He never said he was actually concussed. Are you a doctor by the way and are able to tell a player is definitely concussed without examining him?
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 06, 2019, 10:00:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Don't I he was definitely concussed on the side line, legs were gone and he was all over the shop. I'm not saying you can't recover from concussion in a week but if best medical practice says you don't play for 14 days then he shouldn't be playing. It would say a lot about player welfare for me if some stroke or loophole is found to allow him play. But would any manager do that, risk their players health? I'd hope not.
Who lying? McCorry said because of concussion protocol they wouldn't bring him back on again. He never said he was actually concussed. Are you a doctor by the way and are able to tell a player is definitely concussed without examining him?
Nope not a doctor. Lads, I'm concerned about cavan first and foremost. I know what I saw and others around me from both counties saw the same. You can believe it or call me a liar, up to you. I guess ye are getting thick because you know mcgeeney will play him anyway.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 10:07:16 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 06, 2019, 10:00:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Don't I he was definitely concussed on the side line, legs were gone and he was all over the shop. I'm not saying you can't recover from concussion in a week but if best medical practice says you don't play for 14 days then he shouldn't be playing. It would say a lot about player welfare for me if some stroke or loophole is found to allow him play. But would any manager do that, risk their players health? I'd hope not.
Who lying? McCorry said because of concussion protocol they wouldn't bring him back on again. He never said he was actually concussed. Are you a doctor by the way and are able to tell a player is definitely concussed without examining him?
Nope not a doctor. Lads, I'm concerned about cavan first and foremost. I know what I saw and others around me from both counties saw the same. You can believe it or call me a liar, up to you. I guess ye are getting thick because you know mcgeeney will play him anyway.
If he was concussed, and no offence I'd rather hear that from a trained medical professional than a guy who made a finding from in the stands, then he shouldn't, and won't, play. If he does play then it means he wasn't concussed
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Might as well be direct about this - you are a liar and a malicious one at that
If you say so.
Well let's walk this one through. You say the player was not merely concussed but badly concussed. Talk me through what you saw that allowed you to diagnose concussion? And then talk me through the visual indicators of bad concussion?
It can't be the manner in which he left the field as the player jogged freely from the pitch.
It can't be that they were unsteady on their feet as they they were not on their feet when the cut was treated? They then sat on the bench watching the game. Even in the front row you would have been 10 yards away from where he was sat. What did you see?
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Might as well be direct about this - you are a liar and a malicious one at that
If you say so.
Well let's walk this one through. You say the player was not merely concussed but badly concussed. Talk me through what you saw that allowed you to diagnose concussion? And then talk me through the visual indicators of bad concussion?
It can't be the manner in which he left the field as the player jogged freely from the pitch.
It can't be that they were unsteady on their feet as they they were not on their feet when the cut was treated? They then sat on the bench watching the game. Even in the front row you would have been 10 yards away from where he was sat. What did you see?
I won't be walking anything through for you, I'm a malicious liar so what's the point.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 10:22:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 06, 2019, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Might as well be direct about this - you are a liar and a malicious one at that
If you say so.
Well let's walk this one through. You say the player was not merely concussed but badly concussed. Talk me through what you saw that allowed you to diagnose concussion? And then talk me through the visual indicators of bad concussion?
It can't be the manner in which he left the field as the player jogged freely from the pitch.
It can't be that they were unsteady on their feet as they they were not on their feet when the cut was treated? They then sat on the bench watching the game. Even in the front row you would have been 10 yards away from where he was sat. What did you see?
I won't be walking anything through for you, I'm a malicious liar so what's the point.
If you are that intent on proving my point I suppose I'll have to let you at it.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/06/04/news/jarlath-og-burns-wasn-t-concussed-during-cavan-clash-insist-armagh-1633870/
Seems it is more of a guideline than a rule.
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Set yourself up nicely with an attempt to smear the Armagh management if Burns plays on Sunday. Well done!
Quote from: APM on June 07, 2019, 08:20:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2019, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2019, 04:43:59 PM
What's the rules on the concussion protocol in GAA. Is it the same as rugby ie is it likely that Burns will miss out this week?
If it was documented as concussion then I think he would have to miss out. I read earlier in the week that Armagh were insisting he wasn't concussed so I'd imagine he will be available.
I wasn't aware of that rule, all I can say is I was very close to where he came off and I could see from him he was concussed and badly concussed at that.
Set yourself up nicely with an attempt to smear the Armagh management if Burns plays on Sunday. Well done!
They have been doing it all week with players and management
Speaking afterwards, Orchard assistant boss Jim McCorry said Burns was "a wee bit fuzzy", before later commenting that "it wasn't the full concussion but we thought it best not to put him back in".
Must have been a half concussion so.
As for the rules...
For any kind of concussion suffered, the GAA's guidelines are clear – and the protocol advises that a return to competitive action for adult players should not be made until 'a minimum of seven days since diagnosis'.
but...
unless Armagh chose to ignore the GAA's guidelines
So are they clear rules or guidelines. We are none the wiser.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 09:37:34 AM
Speaking afterwards, Orchard assistant boss Jim McCorry said Burns was "a wee bit fuzzy", before later commenting that "it wasn't the full concussion but we thought it best not to put him back in".
Must have been a half concussion so.
As for the rules...
For any kind of concussion suffered, the GAA's guidelines are clear – and the protocol advises that a return to competitive action for adult players should not be made until 'a minimum of seven days since diagnosis'.
but...
unless Armagh chose to ignore the GAA's guidelines
So are they clear rules or guidelines. We are none the wiser.
And we don't know if he was concussed or not
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 09:37:34 AM
Speaking afterwards, Orchard assistant boss Jim McCorry said Burns was "a wee bit fuzzy", before later commenting that "it wasn't the full concussion but we thought it best not to put him back in".
Must have been a half concussion so.
As for the rules...
For any kind of concussion suffered, the GAA's guidelines are clear – and the protocol advises that a return to competitive action for adult players should not be made until 'a minimum of seven days since diagnosis'.
but...
unless Armagh chose to ignore the GAA's guidelines
So are they clear rules or guidelines. We are none the wiser.
And we don't know if he was concussed or not
Well I believe he was based on what I saw.
Do you not think it odd that a fella who was your man of the match comes off and gets patched up but is not put back on the field when he was needed most?
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 10:20:12 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 09:37:34 AM
Speaking afterwards, Orchard assistant boss Jim McCorry said Burns was "a wee bit fuzzy", before later commenting that "it wasn't the full concussion but we thought it best not to put him back in".
Must have been a half concussion so.
As for the rules...
For any kind of concussion suffered, the GAA's guidelines are clear – and the protocol advises that a return to competitive action for adult players should not be made until 'a minimum of seven days since diagnosis'.
but...
unless Armagh chose to ignore the GAA's guidelines
So are they clear rules or guidelines. We are none the wiser.
And we don't know if he was concussed or not
Well I believe he was based on what I saw.
Do you not think it odd that a fella who was your man of the match comes off and gets patched up but is not put back on the field when he was needed most?
Given he hadn't touched the ball in the preceding 30 mins then no. But tell us more of what you saw.
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Just read that somewhere else so it must be true. Such a load of shite and a prime example of the "appeal everything" culture. Delighted it failed.
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Oh I'm sure some of your mates will have a great explanation as to why that warranted an appeal.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Oh I'm sure some of your mates will have a great explanation as to why that warranted an appeal.
Think you'll find everyone to a man thought it was a clear red card and there was no appeal worth taking.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 07, 2019, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Oh I'm sure some of your mates will have a great explanation as to why that warranted an appeal.
Think you'll find everyone to a man thought it was a clear red card and there was no appeal worth taking.
Correct.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 07, 2019, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Oh I'm sure some of your mates will have a great explanation as to why that warranted an appeal.
Think you'll find everyone to a man thought it was a clear red card and there was no appeal worth taking.
Straight red no question.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
Reading on Orchard Forum that we did appeal Donaghy's red on a technicality and lost. Pretty embarrassing if true
Oh I'm sure some of your mates will have a great explanation as to why that warranted an appeal.
Who? I've yet to see one of us say there should have been an appeal
Do the lads who believe that Burns wasn't concussed think maybe after seeing the joke of an appeal that went ahead that perhaps the Armagh management might be the sort who would play a lad who had been concussed...?
Going by the media reports and McCorrys interview last week it reads as if (and i may be wrong) Armagh were at pains to rule out concussion no matter what condition he was in. It was too obvious that they were trying to quash any talk of concussion right away which makes you think.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 07, 2019, 01:38:01 PM
Going by the media reports and McCorrys interview last week it reads as if (and i may be wrong) Armagh were at pains to rule out concussion no matter what condition he was in. It was too obvious that they were trying to quash any talk of concussion right away which makes you think.
Which makes you think what?
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
Do the lads who believe that Burns wasn't concussed think maybe after seeing the joke of an appeal that went ahead that perhaps the Armagh management might be the sort who would play a lad who had been concussed...?
Plenty of counties make appeals when they shouldn't. Sometimes they are even successful
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 07, 2019, 01:38:01 PM
Going by the media reports and McCorrys interview last week it reads as if (and i may be wrong) Armagh were at pains to rule out concussion no matter what condition he was in. It was too obvious that they were trying to quash any talk of concussion right away which makes you think.
I would be happy enough that young Burns has caring parents with enough influence on him with regard to his long term health to ensure that he wouldn't play without being cleared medically and to their satisfaction regardless of what McCorry and McGeeney might think or want.
If Burns was concussed he should not play. Player welfare trumps everything else.
He may well have been concussed. I don't know. My point is the the contributors to this thread who claim to know are at best speculating and probably at something a bit worse than that.
The evidence that he was concussed is that he got a facial injury, was subbed and McCorry used the word "fuzzy" in a interview immediately post match. Oh an eye witness account from Scratchy that saw into the soul of the lad. That does not amount to evidence of concussion.
He was taken off as a blood sub. The decision to keep him off is entirely justified given he never got a single touch of the ball in 30 mins. He displayed no visable sign of concussion. Only McCorry can explain his comments but I wouldn't put it past Jim deflecting attention from the lad's second half performance.
But as I say if he was concussed stick to the guidelines
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
Do the lads who believe that Burns wasn't concussed think maybe after seeing the joke of an appeal that went ahead that perhaps the Armagh management might be the sort who would play a lad who had been concussed...?
Plenty of counties make appeals when they shouldn't. Sometimes they are even successful
Time action was taken to put a stop to these fishing expeditions
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Time action was taken to put a stir to these fishing expeditions
What harm do they do?
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 01:55:30 PM
My point is the the contributors to this thread who claim to know are at best speculating and probably at something a bit worse than that.
(http://www.ipwatchdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dont-feed-troll.jpg)
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 02:08:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Time action was taken to put a stir to these fishing expeditions
What harm do they do?
Well whatever the harm is that other sports don't tolerate. Maybe there is something to be said for taking your medicine
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 02:29:04 PM
Well whatever the harm is that other sports don't tolerate. Maybe there is something to be said for taking your medicine
Not so sure about that now. At least under our system if a ref makes a wrong call, an innocent player won't suffer a suspension.
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 02:50:10 PM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 02:29:04 PM
Well whatever the harm is that other sports don't tolerate. Maybe there is something to be said for taking your medicine
Not so sure about that now. At least under our system if a ref makes a wrong call, an innocent player won't suffer a suspension.
At no point did I say that players shouldn't have a right of appeal. I just don't think they should automatically appeal on the of chance of a procedural error. Donaghy is guilty. Everybody knows he is guilty. You only have to look at the video of him committing the act to know he is guilty of committing the offence. The appeal in this instance was a disgrace.
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
Do the lads who believe that Burns wasn't concussed think maybe after seeing the joke of an appeal that went ahead that perhaps the Armagh management might be the sort who would play a lad who had been concussed...?
Plenty of counties make appeals when they shouldn't. Sometimes they are even successful
Time action was taken to put a stop to these fishing expeditions
They waste the time of GAA volunteers. Sometimes they are fair and warranted in the case of a bad call. However, the committee reviewing should have the authority to call out the spurious appeals and be empowered to, for example, double the suspension if they find that they were time wasting. While there is no deterrent it will keep happening.
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:07:40 PM
They waste the time of GAA volunteers.
The volunteers in question are well shod for their trouble.
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:07:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on June 07, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
Do the lads who believe that Burns wasn't concussed think maybe after seeing the joke of an appeal that went ahead that perhaps the Armagh management might be the sort who would play a lad who had been concussed...?
Plenty of counties make appeals when they shouldn't. Sometimes they are even successful
Time action was taken to put a stop to these fishing expeditions
They waste the time of GAA volunteers. Sometimes they are fair and warranted in the case of a bad call. However, the committee reviewing should have the authority to call out the spurious appeals and be empowered to, for example, double the suspension if they find that they were time wasting. While there is no deterrent it will keep happening.
Double the suspension if it is upheld.
They already do this in other sports - is it rugby or soccer?
Aussie Rules give a lesser penalty if the player accepts the charge immediately.
What I would suggest is that if the appeals committee can show leniency then they should be allowed to increase bans to.
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
What if the ban is not just in the first place but someone else interprets it as just? Should they have their ban doubled?
You simply cannot take away the appeals process or punish someone for appealing. What I would suggest is that of the appeals committee can show leniency then they should be allowed to increase bans to.
Nail on head. Appeals committees can indeed increase bans.
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
I am sure the ref wrote in his report that it was a straight red, so trying to get off as he accidentally pulled a yellow for a split second before the red is pathetic carry on.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
I am sure the ref wrote in his report that it was a straight red, so trying to get off as he accidentally pulled a yellow for a split second before the red is pathetic carry on.
Have you seen the report?
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
I am sure the ref wrote in his report that it was a straight red, so trying to get off as he accidentally pulled a yellow for a split second before the red is pathetic carry on.
Have you seen the report?
If the report said two yellows there would be no suspension and no appeal so it had to say straight red. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to comprehend.
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
It's worth remembering that last week was Graham's second ever championship game in senior intercounty management. McGeeney has been hard at it for a decent while without making too much apparent progress and I fully expect him to over-think it for the replay and focus too much on stopping Cavan. I'd say our boys have more scope to improve and continue evolving whereas I'm not sure Armagh have another gear. I can see Cavan taking it by three or four.
Donaghy will be big loss and even if he plays Jarlath Óg Burns is unlikely to be near 100% fit after that heavy knock he got last weekend. All the pressure is on Cavan to deliver a win here and are safe in the knowledge that underdogs rarely win a replay.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
I am sure the ref wrote in his report that it was a straight red, so trying to get off as he accidentally pulled a yellow for a split second before the red is pathetic carry on.
Have you seen the report?
If the report said two yellows there would be no suspension and no appeal so it had to say straight red. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to comprehend.
Getting a bit personal now aren't we ::)
I am just making sure you have actually read it. You and other Cavan fans have moaned all week about how incompetent the referee has been.
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 07, 2019, 04:55:18 PM
It's worth remembering that last week was Graham's second ever championship game in senior intercounty management. McGeeney has been hard at it for a decent while without making too much apparent progress and I fully expect him to over-think it for the replay and focus too much on stopping Cavan. I'd say our boys have more scope to improve and continue evolving whereas I'm not sure Armagh have another gear. I can see Cavan taking it by three or four.
I have the fear that McGeeney will not change anything for Armagh or he will make too many changes - I fear the former more than the latter. If we lose on Sunday I hope it is because Cavan were better and not down to us losing our heads and the game in the closing stages.
I hope Clarke and O'Neill are not as quiet and Murnin is closer to full fitness.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2019, 03:53:12 PM
Quote from: five points on June 07, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
From what I have heard the Donaghy red card was appealed based on a technicality. The ref showed a yellow before the red. We accept it was a red and the decision rightfully stands.
That's very fair too. No harm in keeping refs on their toes.
I am sure the ref wrote in his report that it was a straight red, so trying to get off as he accidentally pulled a yellow for a split second before the red is pathetic carry on.
I'm certain he didn't even pull out a yellow. I thought the card got stuck and that's why he brought his hand up twice
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 07, 2019, 04:55:18 PM
It's worth remembering that last week was Graham's second ever championship game in senior intercounty management. McGeeney has been hard at it for a decent while without making too much apparent progress and I fully expect him to over-think it for the replay and focus too much on stopping Cavan. I'd say our boys have more scope to improve and continue evolving whereas I'm not sure Armagh have another gear. I can see Cavan taking it by three or four.
We certainly have another gear. ONeill and Clarke for example didn't have their best days and that's before you think about Grugan. I agree with you tho. McGeeney seems to preoccupied with stopping other teams rather than letting our boys actually play
Quote from: JP on June 07, 2019, 04:45:35 PM
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
What about Ciaran Brady's red card? There hasn't been much mention of that
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
Quote from: JP on June 07, 2019, 04:45:35 PM
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
Considering McKiernan pulled and dragged Grimley around the pitch by the shirt last week I think he is the one that should be worrying.
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 06:47:04 PM
What about Ciaran Brady's red card? There hasn't been much mention of that
Probably because it was deserved and Cavan didnt appeal it. A strange concept for you lads I know.
Quote from: Throw ball on June 07, 2019, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
Quote from: JP on June 07, 2019, 04:45:35 PM
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
Considering McKiernan pulled and dragged Grimley around the pitch by the shirt last week I think he is the one that should be worrying.
Gearoid is sitting up at night worrying about marking Grimley I'd say... ;)
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 07:28:25 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 07, 2019, 06:47:04 PM
What about Ciaran Brady's red card? There hasn't been much mention of that
Probably because it was deserved and Cavan didnt appeal it. A strange concept for you lads I know.
Armagh fans have been saying Donaghy deserved his and haven't supported the appeal.
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
Quote from: JP on June 07, 2019, 04:45:35 PM
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
What are you on about
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 07, 2019, 08:38:22 PM
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
Quote from: JP on June 07, 2019, 04:45:35 PM
If Armagh win this weekend it should be hilarious listening to some of these Cavan's posters whinging. I am sure they will find something to complain about even if they win.
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
What are you on about
No idea, but I'll have some of whatever he's smoking.
Quote from: Westside on June 07, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
If Grimley stabs McKiernan in the heart after the throw in it should be hilarious listening to all of these Armagh posters explain his actions away. "He was eating an apple right before throw in, obviously forgot it was in his hand, could happen anyone. Them Cavan boys were no angels either hai"
Was this a Derry or Japanese "Armagh" poster?
G you make it hard for a neutral to support Armagh which I done for many a year.,with half the crap talked on here.
FFS lads, this yapping is depressing stuff...
People are saying here that favourites rarely lose the replay but in fairness there was not a big pile between the two teams in the betting so wouldn't be getting too caught up in that one 5/6 Cavan & Armagh 13/10 for this Sunday's game. The one thing that most managers don't seem to have the bottle for is when having the extra man advantage why not throw him up in the forward line and give the other team something to think about and make them (force them closer to goal) bring another man back to mark him, this will give you a better advantage (in my mind anyway) than pulling him back to have another sweeper.
They just don't want to take the gamble but i believe it would pay off...On the game this Sunday it'll probably be similar to last weeks game, I expect Cavan to be better but i also expect Armagh's forward line to be better too so should be interesting...FFS Kieran just them them loose and go for it...have a shoot out like the Rossies game last year, go for it ;)
Cavan by 4
The joys of modern technology ... presently cruising at 35000 feet over North America listening to RTE Radio on the plane ... come on Armagh!
What's up with Northern Sound today
9 mins to play Cavan 0-17 Armagh 0-16.
Cavan in the driving seat with 3 mins to play. Cavan 0-20 Armagh 0-16
Armagh goal needed.
Entertaining stuff but the result was a foregone conclusion since Armagh were outplayed by 14-men the last day out.
Strong finish by Cavan seals the win. FT Cavan 0-23 Armagh 0-17. Cavan's first Ulster final for 18 years. As armaghniac pointed out yesterday a first Cavan v Donegal Ulster final since 1983.
Well done to Cavan in front today from pillar to post and closed out the game very well. As for Armagh, lost that game the first day and for a team supposedly fit they fade out of games a lot towards the end of them.
Congratulations Cavan and good luck in the final.
Not sure where this leaves Armagh. We were down a good few points in the first 20 minutes. I don't think we were quick enough to make the changes needed which had been a constant problem with this management team.
Fair play to Cavan. They were more clinical and made the most of the favourable refereeing decisions they got to record a deserved victory. Some positives for Armagh but a lot of negatives. Reminded me a lot of the Meath game in the championship. As long as we avoid Monaghan in the draw I'd be happy enough although I think we'd need to get lucky draws from there to make the Super 8's.
There's a very good bunch of players there. I'm yet to be convinced there's a good team.
Well done Cavan. Deserved win. We lost that between the 5th and 25th minute. After that we had too much to do
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 07:14:32 PM
Fair play to Cavan. They were more clinical and made the most of the favourable refereeing decisions they got to record a deserved victory. Some positives for Armagh but a lot of negatives. Reminded me a lot of the Meath game in the championship. As long as we avoid Monaghan in the draw I'd be happy enough although I think we'd need to get lucky draws from there to make the Super 8's.
There's a very good bunch of players there. I'm yet to be convinced there's a good team.
I'm firmly of the opinion that once McGeeney goes Armagh will push on a level given the players in the squad.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
Quote from: twohands!!! on June 09, 2019, 07:56:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 07:14:32 PM
Fair play to Cavan. They were more clinical and made the most of the favourable refereeing decisions they got to record a deserved victory. Some positives for Armagh but a lot of negatives. Reminded me a lot of the Meath game in the championship. As long as we avoid Monaghan in the draw I'd be happy enough although I think we'd need to get lucky draws from there to make the Super 8's.
There's a very good bunch of players there. I'm yet to be convinced there's a good team.
I'm firmly of the opinion that once McGeeney goes Armagh will push on a level given the players in the squad.
With who in charge?
Delighted to see Cavan back in an Ulster final.
It will be a tough one to get over Donegal but they will give it a good lash.
Mickey Graham's stock continues to rise.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 09, 2019, 08:03:00 PM
Delighted to see Cavan back in an Ulster final.
It will be a tough one to get over Donegal but they will give it a good lash.
Mickey Graham's stock continues to rise.
Given the attacking attitude of Cavan, it will be a competitive final. Difficult to decide how good Donegal actually are given how bad Tyrone were on Saturday.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
Radio coverage said that Cavan had him well swarmed on kickouts to hoover up any break ball.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2019, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
Radio coverage said that Cavan had him well swarmed on kickouts to hoover up any break ball.
We didn't get a lot of breaks. They done their work from the last game.
I have seen Armagh a number of times during McGeeneys reign. You have some excellent footballers. You could easily be a super 8 team but you have no kickout strategy and your tackling technique is very poor.
Fair play to Cavan today and I wish Donegal all the best in the final
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
I meant health wise. Took of in ambulance after game.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
I meant health wise. Took of in ambulance after game.
Was he?
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:31:36 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
I meant health wise. Took of in ambulance after game.
Was he?
RTE radio said he had to be carried out after game.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 08:39:40 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:31:36 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 07:59:48 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 09, 2019, 07:55:19 PM
Any update on Jarlath Og?
Didn't have as good a game today. Took one magnificent catch tho
I meant health wise. Took of in ambulance after game.
Was he?
RTE radio said he had to be carried out after game.
Hope he is alright. I didn't see anything at the game
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 07:14:32 PM
Fair play to Cavan. They were more clinical and made the most of the favourable refereeing decisions they got to record a deserved victory. Some positives for Armagh but a lot of negatives. Reminded me a lot of the Meath game in the championship. As long as we avoid Monaghan in the draw I'd be happy enough although I think we'd need to get lucky draws from there to make the Super 8's.
There's a very good bunch of players there. I'm yet to be convinced there's a good team.
Today was the second league or championship match I have missed over the last 5 years and am firmly of the same opinion. Can't comment on today until I watch the rerun.
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
It would be interesting to see what someone like Malachy O'Rourke could do with Armagh.
Who was the last outsider before Paddy O'Rourke in charge of Armagh?
Quote from: Angelo on June 09, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
It would be interesting to see what someone like Malachy O'Rourke could do with Armagh.
Who was the last outsider before Paddy O'Rourke in charge of Armagh?
Armagh wouldn't be the only county looking at malachy o'rourke when he leaves Monaghan.
Quote from: Angelo on June 09, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
It would be interesting to see what someone like Malachy O'Rourke could do with Armagh.
Who was the last outsider before Paddy O'Rourke in charge of Armagh?
Gerry O'Neill
Quote from: Angelo on June 09, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
It would be interesting to see what someone like Malachy O'Rourke could do with Armagh.
Who was the last outsider before Paddy O'Rourke in charge of Armagh?
He's not a miracle worker.
Super result for Cavan and the best team won out in the end. Credit Armagh for playing their part in a good attacking game of football, a real shoot out. Mcvetty hrs Clarke in terms of best scores was a tremendous contest. I thought it was refereed very well, very little off the ball antics and I wouldn't be surprised if the ref had words with teams before the start.
For us i thought mcvetty, moynagh and Clarke were outstanding. Why do Armagh not start Campbell, in full flight he's almost impossible to stop without fouling. I've said it for years, mcgeeney is a bullshit artist and ye would be better of without him.
The final we will be massive outsiders so pressure is off in some ways and lads should just give it a right go and see what happens.
Would love to know what was worked on in respect of the Cavan kick outs. Unlike the last day we seemed to contest many of them and put Cavan under pressure. Others we let go and in the second half we would send a forward up to mark 2 Cavan receivers 30 yards apart. The forward would invariably look over his shoulder for a teammate to mark the other receiver but to no avail. What is going on here?
Great game. Nice to win a shootout and prove the quality in the team. Armagh were excellent and they have some fantastic individuals. I think we just had the edge in terms of quality and the team are a bit more seasoned.
For Cavan McVeety was immense. Killian Clarke, Moynagh and Rehill were also class. It's a good step forward and they can go into the final as massive underdogs with a puncher's chance.
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
Tony Mac surely is the obvious choice...but as someone stated KMcG will be around for another few years yet...sure bring in another few boyo's from the 2002 team ::) as your backroom team and underage coaches
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 10:55:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 09, 2019, 08:59:43 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on June 09, 2019, 08:58:17 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 09, 2019, 08:49:09 PM
Congrats Cavan and probably deserved. All the best in the final, would genuinely like to see Cavan beat Donegal...So Good luck.
Cavan were very economical today and i think they only had like 4 wides, I do believe Armagh had to work a bit harder for their free's today and there were two moments in the game where we should have had a free in front of the posts and didn't get it and Cavan went up the field and scored each time - McVeety is a class footballer and was a real thorn for us over the two games.
What next for KMcG? We had our chance the last day and bad tactics cost us the last day, he either doesn't play S Campbell or takes him off first sub in games and everyone can see that he's too good a footballer to be sitting on the bench I suppose we'll see how the rest of the season pans out with hopefully a bit of a run in the qualifiers, as someone said Armagh have some v good footballers and should be doing better...
Unfortunately we already know what's next for Geezer. Not good enough at this level but destined to stay in the job regardless as our chairman indicated before the Down game.
Who is the alternative to him if he did go
Tony Mac surely is the obvious choice...but as someone stated KMcG will be around for another few years yet...sure bring in another few boyo's from the 2002 team ::) as your backroom team and underage coaches
A long shot but get both of the McEntee's in.
Not a lot to say. The better team won but the six point winning margin flattered Cavan. And yet Armagh can look back on that game with a few 'what ifs'. The four goal chances would feature highly amongst them with the one missed by Jamie Clarke, in front of the the nets, being in the jaw dropping category. Some of Cavan's shooting in the second half was excellent, although the fact that they could move their men into comfortable shooting positions was as much to do with poor defence as it was attacking excellence. Our players in contrast were often forced to shoot under pressure, and the wides tally reflected that.
I'll be very interested to see how Cavan go in the final. Would love to see this sleeping giant awaken from a long slumber with an Ulster title. For ourselves, there are positives to take and with a bit of luck we might threaten an appearance in the Super 8s, although that is likely a long shot. One last thing - I think we need to scour the County for a top class free taker and stick him in nets. The difference in long range free taking alone was the bulk of that six point winning margin.
A question for the Armagh management team ... if fully fit, how can you start or end a Championship game without Stefan Campbell on the field?
Our forwards didn't get going for 25 mins and in the end we did live to regret the missed goal opportunities. I have to say I think McGeeney started the wrong team today. Stefan Campbell has been messed about something shocking.
Grugan has received a bit of abuse over the past few weeks but I thought he played well when introduced.
We scored 17 points and left a few more out there. That's decent enough scoring in the end. Our big problems still lie in looking suspect at the back. We seemed to be a bit lost in coverage this week. Perhaps this was down to the loss of Donaghy.
Anyway, good luck to Cavan in the final. I'd give them every chance. A very well drilled outfit. Quality kick-outs yesterday and their big players really stood up.
Best team won. Not for the first time you wonder at how McGeeney picks teams, or what game he actually is watching. Armagh gifted Cavan possession from Cavan kick-outs with no strategy to effect turnovers, and no kick-out strategy of their own. Blaine Hughes coughed up at least one easy point and created the opportunity for other scores. As for Aidan Forker gave a way 4 points with needless turnovers in the first twenty minutes, but lasts 70, contrast McGeeney's decision-making with Cody in the Galway match. Regarding the Ref he was a model of inconsistency and let Cavan defence away with quite a bit particularly in the last 10 minutes. Cavan fans no doubt will have their own gripes with him.
Disappointing result. The goal chances were crucial. Jamie's was a banker and was disappointing but I personally think the move for Nugent's would have been a goal of the season contender and was actually more disappointing in my overall view as it is symptomatic of why we are in the qualifiers and Cavan are in the Ulster final. We made a great move, swept from back to front with slick passing and good movement. Got people in the right place, Murnin, was in the perfect place a la Kevin Foley in that great Meath v Dublin goal in 1991 but our final decision was wrong. The pass was the right call but Nugent shot. That final decision making was the difference the whole game. Cavan got the right man in the right position and that is why they got as many scores as they did. Their decision making was better than ours. Too often we didn't take that extra pass or didn't make the extra run and as a result we were shooting from the wrong position. This is due to a combination of a number of things.
Firstly, there were 4-5 players who are in their first season of championship or as regular championship starters. Good and all as Rian and Jarly are they are still cubs at county level and they will make mistakes. Put these lads in Kerry, Dublin etc and they are still making these mistakes but they are not the central players who have to lead the team therefore the mistakes don't look as bad, I have seen Clifford make a lot of mistakes playing with Kerry but they do not stand out.
Secondly, we were playing players who are not fully fit. Murnin was not near fit, Burns was also not at full pelt. As a consequence the fluidity that you would have in a fully fit team was not there. This has a knock on effect on other players.
Thirdly, Cavan are further down the development than our boys and this means that their decision making will be better. They are playing at a higher level consistently and therefore they have to make decisions faster therefore when they play a team at a lower level it looks slicker and more clinical. They are physically stronger and fitter than Armagh and that showed with them able to pull away at the end. Also, this is a team built on a good run of underage success. There is a lot to be said for the habit of winning as when things get a bit tight they know what to do without panicking.
Fourthly, I feel we lack leadership on the field, particularly round the central area. We rushed passes, we were forced into easy turnovers and lost kickouts at crucial times. The centre of the defence was badly exposed and no one took control and said lets shore things up here. There should be direction from the sideline of course but I think it is an easy get out to do that and the players need to take it upon themselves to do it too.
This final point is a massive point and the loss of Donaghy was cruelly felt. With all respect to Vernon he is not a man marker. He has a lot of attributes and has been a solid servant to the squad but he was never a marker. I think the management made a mistake having him laid out to do a marking job. They rectified it pretty quickly but the damage was done at that stage. The reality though is that we need a 3 and a 6 who know what the role is and have the mobility. Donaghy knows either role but is not as mobile as he used to be. I honestly don't know who else can play the role. McKay made a difference so maybe it is time to simply stick with him and go with it. There have been a lot of changes and in my opinion there needs to be consistency in playing positions to create consistency in performance. Also, Hughes in goals hasn't been tested as a GK but his kickouts are still a concern. We will not dominate any MF and certainly won't against Monaghan so a more structured kickout routine needs to be established. I feel it is ad hoc with no real purpose.
Management can be criticised, and I have been one of their fiercest critics, but they made the changes fairly quickly when things were not working out. I would have no issue with Soupy not starting as I do believe he is better off the bench. I thought Nugent deserved his start but his confidence took a wallop when the goal chance was missed and he was gone from there. Hall put in a good shift but his end product is suspect. He is very busy and wins a lot of ball but there's not much coming off it. I would like to see him drive at defenders more, the way Mackey and McVitty do and draw frees. He is quick, small and is a strong wee bugger, he could generate 3-4 scorable frees a game if he does this more. I think he nearly prefers to give and go but is not getting the return pass.
The reality is though we are still short 3-4 players. We have done well to get to the semi final but we are a good bit away from the top table. The 6 points gap maybe flattered Cavan but I honestly feel that they never really looked likely to lose once they established the lead in the first half. Moynagh and Clarke were defensively very strong for them and in Galligan in goals they have someone who provides stability and excellent kickouts. McKiernan, Mackey, McVitty and Murray were also top notch. Their spine is rock solid. Ours isn't. To me that is the key difference.
Good to hear Jarlath Og released from hospital.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 10, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
Good to hear Jarlath Og released from hospital.
he was suffering from dehydration i heard.
Quote from: naka on June 10, 2019, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 10, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
Good to hear Jarlath Og released from hospital.
he was suffering from dehydration i heard.
Well I hope that he was and it wasn't anything else. He seemed a lot less in the game yesterday whether thats because of a better effort by Cavan or something else I dont know.
Good summary BCB. The point on Donaghy is major. I honestly believe Armagh would have been promoted if he had been fit for every match in league. Think the fact Armagh appealed a no hope case shows management realise how important he is. McCabe deputised for him reasonably well in league but doesn't seem to have had a look in lately. As for Vernon I would have been reasonably happy with him picking up McKiernan in a midfield role but once he moved forward Vernon was in trouble.
Quote from: Itchy on June 10, 2019, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: naka on June 10, 2019, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 10, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
Good to hear Jarlath Og released from hospital.
he was suffering from dehydration i heard.
Well I hope that he was and it wasn't anything else. He seemed a lot less in the game yesterday whether thats because of a better effort by Cavan or something else I dont know.
Stop beating about the bush and come out and say why everyone knows you're implying
Some naval-gazing on here from an Armagh perspective. But, some of the bleating about management calls, player performances is misplaced. Only one team can win any game and Cavan would have been slight favourites going into both games.
A bit of perspective is important. Cavan having been playing in Division 1 all year and have a very good panel of players. I think ours have more potential, but we are at a different stage of development. We have a number of excellent young players, along with several older players who have been to hell and back playing for Armagh and the younger lads are breathing a bit of life and belief back into the overall squad. With more young players due to come into the team (Ross McQuillan and Oisin O'Neill) the medium term looks positive.
I don't know what the wide count was yesterday, but Cavan had one of those days when they couldn't miss - many of their scores were from the ball being worked into the D, but some of the long range free taking by Galligan was really impressive. Armagh, on the other hand missed about four good goal chances, two of which should definitely have been taken.
Yesterday, McGeeney's instructions were to do what a lot of people on here were calling for. Mark-up on the short kickouts. We did that early on and with Murnion's hard tackling and Cavan's uncertainty, we almost profited before Cavan settled into the game. Missing Donaghy and the higher press, meant that we couldn't stop Cavan running at us through the middle. The swarm defence that worked so well last week, wasn't really in evidence yesterday to the same extent. At times also on the Cavan kickouts, it felt that the Armagh men were losing their markers in and around the middle. Was it poor concentration, tiredness, I don't know.
A few kickouts went astray, but I think Blaine Hughes done pretty well. Thought he was pretty assured in general. Donaghy a big miss and can't say we done well defensively when we conceded 23 points. JOB quiet yesterday, but had that been his debut you would have said he done ok; such is the high standards he is setting for himself. Campbell should have started and really carried the game to Cavan. At times we gave the wrong pass or didn't give the pass, when goals and points were on.
Hopefully these things will come. I do feel that at some stage this forward unit of Armagh's will open up and give a good team a serious hiding, although I can't see it against Monaghan.
I have to say, that having paid £126 so far this year on tickets for Armagh matches family included; I have got great value for money. Yesterday, was as entertaining a game as I have seen - not unlike the Roscommon game last year. Good luck to Cavan in the Ulster Final - I think you will give Donegal a really good game and have every chance.