http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/trio-in-surprise-intercounty-transfers-to-st-vincent-s-1.2563813
What does the pre-season meeting go like in these clubs... "right lads, good luck in the intermediate/junior, you're making way for a few lads who are signing for us next week"
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Where's Indiana with his claims that they'll win the next 100 AIs???
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Would it be of benefit that any player wishing to transfer into Dublin was put into a draft system ,and allocated to a club that way?
(disclaimer: I am just thinking out loud here, I haven't really given this any thought!)
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 09, 2016, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Would it be of benefit that any player wishing to transfer into Dublin was put into a draft system ,and allocated to a club that way?
(disclaimer: I am just thinking out loud here, I haven't really given this any thought!)
It would defeat the point of a player moving clubs (by far the main reason they leave their home clubs is distance and time spent travelling, not glory hunting) if they could end up playing for a team near Bray and they live on the northside of the city.
Quote from: Syferus on March 09, 2016, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 09, 2016, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Would it be of benefit that any player wishing to transfer into Dublin was put into a draft system ,and allocated to a club that way?
(disclaimer: I am just thinking out loud here, I haven't really given this any thought!)
It would defeat the point of a player moving clubs (by far the main reason they leave their home clubs is distance and time spent travelling) if they could end up playing for a team near Bray if they live on the northside of the city.
Fair enough.
maybe i could be divided up into certain regions in Dublin?
I just thought i might be a way to stop the big clubs going out and 'poaching' players.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 09, 2016, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Syferus on March 09, 2016, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 09, 2016, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Would it be of benefit that any player wishing to transfer into Dublin was put into a draft system ,and allocated to a club that way?
(disclaimer: I am just thinking out loud here, I haven't really given this any thought!)
I think a limit would be sufficient. Anyone would know that certain clubs would be at their transfer limit and if they wanted to move to Dublin would probably form a link with a club not likely to reach its transfer limit.
It would defeat the point of a player moving clubs (by far the main reason they leave their home clubs is distance and time spent travelling) if they could end up playing for a team near Bray if they live on the northside of the city.
Fair enough.
maybe i could be divided up into certain regions in Dublin?
I just thought i might be a way to stop the big clubs going out and 'poaching' players.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 09, 2016, 01:41:35 PM
Where's Indiana with his claims that they'll win the next 100 AIs???
talking to his nurse. We are so lucky he shares his insight with us
Quote from: Syferus on March 09, 2016, 01:55:06 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on March 09, 2016, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2016, 01:36:36 PM
There should be limit on the number of transfers into any club. There are many clubs in Dublin, all players could be accommodated without gathering into a select few.
Would it be of benefit that any player wishing to transfer into Dublin was put into a draft system ,and allocated to a club that way?
(disclaimer: I am just thinking out loud here, I haven't really given this any thought!)
It would defeat the point of a player moving clubs (by far the main reason they leave their home clubs is distance and time spent travelling, not glory hunting) if they could end up playing for a team near Bray and they live on the northside of the city.
For sure, the decision to transfer will be down to having to travel long distances, in the majority of cases. But the choice of club is a wholely different thing. St.Vincent's are surrounded by a hell of a lot of other clubs, some of whom could really benefit from an inter county forward joining them.
Interestingly, the individuals referenced in the article above had no idea that the other two were transferring as well. They are all forwards. No way Vincents are going to line out in championship with 3 of their 6 forwards from outside the club.
For balance it is also important to say that none of them were financially incentivised. Hasn't been said here, but I've seen it elsewhere, Twitter etc.
Some sort of regional draft system could work well. Would it be within the rules of the association for DCB to implement one?
Could we not set up "Exile Clubs" in Dublin, e.g. Dublin Ulster, Dublin Munster, etc and direct players moving to join their host exile clubs.
Worked for rugby in London, why not here.
Orrrrrrrrr, how about a Dublin Kerry club, yea ha, that would be some craic
Tomás Corrigan was on Newstalk a couple of weeks ago saying he joint Plunketts purely because he was training with them for the past 2 years while continuing to play with his club at home. New job was the reason he had to give up the travelling back for club games/training. Interesting interview and an honest rebuttal of the implication that all these transfers are financially incentivised. I'm sure some are though and to act as a deterrent new transfers should be barred from playing for the first team for the first year.
Maybe just cap the number of non-Dublin players per panel? How many do Vincent's now have? :o
My son has recently taken up work in Dublin and living in Malahide where he trains with the local club. He travels home at weekends for training or matches. He says himself if he was going to be working in Dublin long-term(a few years) he would def move. Great club and great bunch of fellas to train with. They made him so welcome and absolutely no pressure whatsoever to transfer allegiance . It's the same for many young fellas I know, not just the high profile names.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
Tomás Corrigan was on Newstalk a couple of weeks ago saying he joint Plunketts purely because he was training with them for the past 2 years while continuing to play with his club at home. New job was the reason he had to give up the travelling back for club games/training. Interesting interview and an honest rebuttal of the implication that all these transfers are financially incentivised. I'm sure some are though and to act as a deterrent new transfers should be barred from playing for the first team for the first year.
That just an excuse. Is he travelling back to Fermanagh for inter county training every week? I dont get playing still playing inter county football transferring to Dublin clubs. Most of them players are likely to more games for than county than club in a season
Quote from: Gael85 on March 09, 2016, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
Tomás Corrigan was on Newstalk a couple of weeks ago saying he joint Plunketts purely because he was training with them for the past 2 years while continuing to play with his club at home. New job was the reason he had to give up the travelling back for club games/training. Interesting interview and an honest rebuttal of the implication that all these transfers are financially incentivised. I'm sure some are though and to act as a deterrent new transfers should be barred from playing for the first team for the first year.
That just an excuse. Is he travelling back to Fermanagh for inter county training every week? I dont get playing still playing inter county football transferring to Dublin clubs. Most of them players are likely to more games for than county than club in a season
IC is the pinnacle of player's career. How anyone couldn't get sticking by their county for the short few years they have at the top is hard for anyone to understand. The same players would probably continue to play for their clubs at home longer if there was no IC.
Really like Corrigan as a player and from what I've seen of him off the field. Doesn't do bs.
Quote from: Gael85 on March 09, 2016, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on March 09, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
Tomás Corrigan was on Newstalk a couple of weeks ago saying he joint Plunketts purely because he was training with them for the past 2 years while continuing to play with his club at home. New job was the reason he had to give up the travelling back for club games/training. Interesting interview and an honest rebuttal of the implication that all these transfers are financially incentivised. I'm sure some are though and to act as a deterrent new transfers should be barred from playing for the first team for the first year.
That just an excuse. Is he travelling back to Fermanagh for inter county training every week? I dont get playing still playing inter county football transferring to Dublin clubs. Most of them players are likely to more games for than county than club in a season
Yes, AFAIK. He said it was one thing asking for time off work from a new job to go to inter county training with Fermanagh, but it was another to ask for more time off work to go training/playing with his club in Fermanagh. Plus you have all that travel expenses you'd have to fund yourself. Seems fair enough and reasonable to me.
Brian Kavanagh is still driving the car he got from Kilmacud Crokes, through a sponsor of course
Quote from: general_lee on March 09, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
Maybe just cap the number of non-Dublin players per panel? How many do Vincent's now have? :o
Or player be assigned a club by the Dublin Co Board. Provide proof of where you are living and you will be assigned a club that is north city, south city, west city, based on where you live. So if those 3 Mayo lads are all living and working on the north side, one goes to Clontarf, one goes to Raheny and one goes to Whitehall. Each transfer request is treated equally and they are done on a rota. Vincents have to wait their turn, like everyone else.
If players are allowed to chose themselves, then the same handful of big and successful clubs will keep on hoovering up the inter county standard players and, the same smaller clubs remain smaller and unsuccessful.
Quote from: Beffs on March 09, 2016, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 09, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
Maybe just cap the number of non-Dublin players per panel? How many do Vincent's now have? :o
Or player be assigned a club by the Dublin Co Board. Provide proof of where you are living and you will be assigned a club that is north city, south city, west city, based on where you live. So if those 3 Mayo lads are all living and working on the north side, one goes to Clontarf, one goes to Raheny and one goes to Whitehall. Each transfer request is treated equally and they are done on a rota. Vincents have to wait their turn, like everyone else.
If players are allowed to chose themselves, then the same handful of big and successful clubs will keep on hoovering up the inter county standard players and the same smaller clubs remain smaller and unsuccessful.
this seems very fair to me
A geographic draft system, combined with the ability for a player to choose a less popular club of their own volition, might be an idea.
I would also do the same for people travelling to N. American clubs in the summer, it is desirable that visiting students etc get games, but not that they all go to the same club and you have a team of blowins.
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 10, 2016, 08:01:14 AM
Quote from: Beffs on March 09, 2016, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 09, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
Maybe just cap the number of non-Dublin players per panel? How many do Vincent's now have? :o
Or player be assigned a club by the Dublin Co Board. Provide proof of where you are living and you will be assigned a club that is north city, south city, west city, based on where you live. So if those 3 Mayo lads are all living and working on the north side, one goes to Clontarf, one goes to Raheny and one goes to Whitehall. Each transfer request is treated equally and they are done on a rota. Vincents have to wait their turn, like everyone else.
If players are allowed to chose themselves, then the same handful of big and successful clubs will keep on hoovering up the inter county standard players and the same smaller clubs remain smaller and unsuccessful.
this seems very fair to me
I'm presuming Dublin CB, like every other CB is made up a club representatives and with that may come bias or allegations of bias if the likes of this was introduced.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 10, 2016, 02:10:48 PM
I'm presuming Dublin CB, like every other CB is made up a club representatives and with that may come bias or allegations of bias if the likes of this was introduced.
Write a program to do it. Push a button.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 10, 2016, 02:10:48 PM
I'm presuming Dublin CB, like every other CB is made up a club representatives and with that may come bias or allegations of bias if the likes of this was introduced.
Bias on behalf of who?
It could be very simple. Clubs are assigned a number alphabetically. Players who are transferring, are assigned to a club based on the date that they send their transfer request in. First request in goes to Club 1, second request in goes to Club 2 and so on. All transfers are treated equally. Inter county lads do not get special treatment, so that they are not all sent to the better clubs. So a super club like Vincents, is just as likely to get a 38 year old, 15 stone plummer, who just wants a kick about a couple of nights a week, as they are an inter county super star.
If an inter county star is sent to a less successful club & thinks it may impact him by not playing with players of his own level, that is too bad. It's not the job of the Dublin Co Board to nursemaid the careers of non Dublin players. They should be looking after their own players first and protecting the integrity & fairness of their own club system first.
Similarly, if a player has a friend from home, or a relation who plays for a particular club and wants to go there, he can request it, but it is not guaranteed. Ireland is a very small county & Dublin has a population of 1.2 million. We can probably all find a connection to a super club in Dublin, or find a "friend" there, if we try hard enough. If you are an inter county star and the club is bending over backwards to find you that "friend," that connection is even easier to manufacture.
Quote from: Beffs on March 10, 2016, 03:05:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 10, 2016, 02:10:48 PM
I'm presuming Dublin CB, like every other CB is made up a club representatives and with that may come bias or allegations of bias if the likes of this was introduced.
Bias on behalf of who?
It could be very simple. Clubs are assigned a number alphabetically. Players who are transferring, are assigned to a club based on the date that they send their transfer request in. First request in goes to Club 1, second request in goes to Club 2 and so on. All transfers are treated equally. Inter county lads do not get special treatment, so that they are not all sent to the better clubs. So a super club like Vincents, is just as likely to get a 38 year old, 15 stone plummer, who just wants a kick about a couple of nights a week, as they are an inter county super star.
If an inter county star is sent to a less successful club & thinks it may impact him by not playing with players of his own level, that is too bad. It's not the job of the Dublin Co Board to nursemaid the careers of non Dublin players. They should be looking after their own players first and protecting the integrity & fairness of their own club system first.
Similarly, if a player has a friend from home, or a relation who plays for a particular club and wants to go there, he can request it, but it is not guaranteed. Ireland is a very small county & Dublin has a population of 1.2 million. We can probably all find a connection to a super club in Dublin, or find a "friend" there, if we try hard enough. If you are an inter county star and the club is bending over backwards to find you that "friend," that connection is even easier to manufacture.
As much as there probably isn't a parish rule in play in Dublin, surely where the lad is living should have a bearing on the club he could transfer to. Would it be smart or wise to ask a lad living in Sandyford to play for Naomh Mearnog whether he is a 15 stone plumber or an intercounty wannabe.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:16:12 AM
As much as there probably isn't a parish rule in play in Dublin, surely where the lad is living should have a bearing on the club he could transfer to. Would it be smart or wise to ask a lad living in Sandyford to play for Naomh Mearnog whether he is a 15 stone plumber or an intercounty wannabe.
Of course it's unrealistic to expect someone who lives in Sandyford, to play for a club in Portmarnock. I said in my original post, that the players submit proof of where they live, along with their transfer request. The DCB will then assign them to a club on the north side, south side or west side of the city,
based on where they live. You could even refine it further and include north county & south county Dublin, as well as north city and south city. If you live in Rush, Lusk, Balbriggan, Swords etc, traveling to/from Clontarf or Whitehall for training, during rush hour traffic, could be a major pain.
How about Straffan ;D?
Quote from: Beffs on March 11, 2016, 02:02:48 PM
You could even refine it further and include north county & south county Dublin, as well as north city and south city. If you live in Rush, Lusk, Balbriggan, Swords etc, traveling to/from Clontarf or Whitehall for training, during rush hour traffic, could be a major pain.
All of these details can be attended to. And I would only count in senior players in senior clubs, if you want to join the thirds to keep fit then no problem and no need for bureaucracy.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2016, 04:04:46 PM
Quote from: Beffs on March 11, 2016, 02:02:48 PM
You could even refine it further and include north county & south county Dublin, as well as north city and south city. If you live in Rush, Lusk, Balbriggan, Swords etc, traveling to/from Clontarf or Whitehall for training, during rush hour traffic, could be a major pain.
All of these details can be attended to. And I would only count in senior players in senior clubs, if you want to join the thirds to keep fit then no problem and no need for bureaucracy.
Not so sure about that. Some clubs that are not at the Senior level, (or have just recently been promoted to it,) have excellent facilities & have produced some very good players. Bryan Cullen, Paul Flynn, and Ciaran Kilkenny have not had their inter county careers stunted, because Skerries Harps, Fingallians and Castleknock were not at Senior level when they started out.
Quote from: Beffs on March 11, 2016, 04:18:02 PM
Not so sure about that. Some clubs that are not at the Senior level, (or have just recently been promoted to it,) have excellent facilities & have produced some very good players. Bryan Cullen, Paul Flynn, and Ciaran Kilkenny have not had their inter county careers stunted, because Skerries Harps, Fingallians and Castleknock were not at Senior level when they started out.
That isn't the question, the question is whether these clubs are attracting a lot of inbound players. If so then they should have a quota too.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
Quote from: Beffs on March 11, 2016, 04:18:02 PM
Not so sure about that. Some clubs that are not at the Senior level, (or have just recently been promoted to it,) have excellent facilities & have produced some very good players. Bryan Cullen, Paul Flynn, and Ciaran Kilkenny have not had their inter county careers stunted, because Skerries Harps, Fingallians and Castleknock were not at Senior level when they started out.
That isn't the question, the question is whether these clubs are attracting a lot of inbound players. If so then they should have a quota too.
I seriously doubt if they are attracting inter county standard players. If it was up to you, would you want to play for a second tier club, down the road from you, that will never challenge for All Ireland club champo honours.....or the one that will & is chock a block with inter county Dubs and inter county players from other counties? If it's left up to the players to decide, they will never choose the former.
Quote from: Beffs on March 11, 2016, 04:58:37 PM
I seriously doubt if they are attracting inter county standard players. If it was up to you, would you want to play for a second tier club, down the road from you, that will never challenge for All Ireland club champo honours.....or the one that will & is chock a block with inter county Dubs and inter county players from other counties? If it's left up to the players to decide, they will never choose the former.
Well then, if a player wants to join such a second tier club, then good luck. The senior clubs should have a quota.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 09, 2016, 06:27:10 PM
Brian Kavanagh is still driving the car he got from Kilmacud Crokes, through a sponsor of course
He wouldn't be the only one.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2016, 11:21:15 AM
A geographic draft system, combined with the ability for a player to choose a less popular club of their own volition, might be an idea.
I would also do the same for people travelling to N. American clubs in the summer, it is desirable that visiting students etc get games, but not that they all go to the same club and you have a team of blowins.
Never going to work. Players will want to go to the best club.
Far better to restrict the movement to one outside player per year who can be assigned senior status. That way country lads who are junior players won't be impacted.
My own club have sold themselves out. Grassroots within the Club are appalled by it. One player wants to come from feckin Mullingar. You can drive to Mullingar quicker mid-week then playing a game on the South-Side if travelling from the North-Side
The Dublin Senior Championship has become a monster that the County Board cannot control because the same system is implemented in Dublin as the other 31 counties.
It needs it's own set of rules to level the playing field. Otherwise the AI Club Championship will reside permanently in Dublin for the next decade