All Ireland Football semi-final;Mayo v Kerry,Sunday Aug 20

[Syferus]

I suppose at the end of the day, the question is "Does playing Aidan O'Shea at full back make you more or less likely to win the game, all things considered?"

It's the same question that applies to all positional/personnel decisions.

If Rochford feels the answer, having looked at it last week, is "Yes", then he has to go with his gut. If he feels that it's "No", because Donaghy clearly won the man on man battle, albeit in a different way, or because he feels he lost too much out the field, then he should change it.

The rest is just noise.

Look AZ, even if we accept Rochford's already dubious choice to use a midfielder to play a position they've never played before - AOS wasn't just man-marking Donaghy, he sat back and played a very traditional FB role when Donaghy wandered out the field - AOS was the worst of the three starting midfielders to choose for the role.

Both Parsons and his brother were more mobile and defensively aware. I've seen both tackle going backwards regularly. Parsons might even qualify as a mobile midfielder in the modern sense of the word. AOS is absolutely brutal when tasked with marking a player because he's so big and cumbersome it's so easy to dummy or feint a pass and have him a mile off his man in a split second. The spaghetti arm tackle is another classic you see from him (and indeed many other big lads, our own Donie Shine is another great example), where he can only get so close to put in a waving arm on the man accelerating past him. I've seen it happen for the better part of a decade now - against him, you run down his channel and make hay. Doesn't matter if he's in the middle, CF, FF, his marker always has a great chance to get forward. 90% of the time he isn't going to get a good shoulder in so his strength is relatively meaningless on the ground.

I'm amused that some articles have decided to go against the grain (as much for attention as for heart-felt belief, I'd wager) because they cannot ignore how ill-fitted to the role AOS was.

[AZOffaly]

I agree with you. I wouldn't do it, but I can see what he's thinking. What I'm saying is if he weighs everything up and basically ends up saying +Removal of Kerry High Ball is Greater than the -Aidan O'Shea forward influence, and -Aidan O'Shea ability to mark Donaghy on the ground, then he should go with it.

For me, I'd be probably playing Kevin McLoughlin or someone as a sweeper in front of someone like Vaughan, and get men around Donaghy if he wins a clean ball. But that's just me.

[Syferus]

I agree with you. I wouldn't do it, but I can see what he's thinking. What I'm saying is if he weighs everything up and basically ends up saying +Removal of Kerry High Ball is Greater than the -Aidan O'Shea forward influence, and -Aidan O'Shea ability to mark Donaghy on the ground, then he should go with it.

For me, I'd be probably playing Kevin McLoughlin or someone as a sweeper in front of someone like Vaughan, and get men around Donaghy if he wins a clean ball. But that's just me.

100%.

Using an offensive weapon like AOS as a FB isn't just about what he does defensively or how he makes the opposition gameplan around him because that player could obviously do damage higher up the field too. Young, Griffin and Enright were already at sea without the big bullock that is AOS running at them so that has to be taken into account too. Surely it would have been at least worth a net positive of a point if Mayo set up their defense as normal and palyed AOS in an attacking role or even switched him out the field at some point, so it's very possible to say the choice to play him at FB cost Mayo the victory.

For me it was a massive tactical miscalculation and proved without a shadow of a doubt Rochford is a bluffer, cut from the same cloth as a Carew. That may seem harsh but two seasons in there is enough material to make the call in my opinion. If Mayo win on Saturday it will be despite their manager, not because of him.

[AZOffaly]

Someone did say earlier on that O'Shea out of the middle area may have contributed to quicker ball going into the Mayo FF line, where Moran made hay especially, and that is something I flagged up when I saw them v Cork. I thought that evening that Moran could have gone to town if the ball in was a bit quicker and took advantage of his runs. However I don't think it was AOS that was slowing the ball down that evening, it seemed to be a team thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry play a sweeper in front of their back 3 this Saturday because Enright is obviously not able for Moran, and I don't know who else can come in there. Fionn Fitzgerald wouldn't be much better I think.

[vallankumous]

I suppose at the end of the day, the question is "Does playing Aidan O'Shea at full back make you more or less likely to win the game, all things considered?"

It's the same question that applies to all positional/personnel decisions.

If Rochford feels the answer, having looked at it last week, is "Yes", then he has to go with his gut. If he feels that it's "No", because Donaghy clearly won the man on man battle, albeit in a different way, or because he feels he lost too much out the field, then he should change it.

The rest is just noise.

Yes.
It's only Rotchford that can make that call. Imho as i said earlier, he has to go with it again.
While I understand pundits should not be on the fence I think they all rushed to bash the idea.

[Taylor]

Finally some sense being spoken.

Donaghy has regularly destroyed full backs under the high ball and it is game over.
Mayo limited this avenue of scores on Sunday and gave themselves a chance of beating Kerry.
Lets be honest - bar Roscommon second game Mayo have been terrible this year and now they are competing with Kerry.

I firmly believe that is AOS had not been full back Sunday Kerry would have plundered many more goals and Mayo would be out.

[Syferus]

Finally some sense being spoken.

Donaghy has regularly destroyed full backs under the high ball and it is game over.
Mayo limited this avenue of scores on Sunday and gave themselves a chance of beating Kerry.
Lets be honest - bar Roscommon second game Mayo have been terrible this year and now they are competing with Kerry.

I firmly believe that is AOS had not been full back Sunday Kerry would have plundered many more goals and Mayo would be out.

Bar ? game Kerry have been very average this year..

[Taylor]

Finally some sense being spoken.

Donaghy has regularly destroyed full backs under the high ball and it is game over.
Mayo limited this avenue of scores on Sunday and gave themselves a chance of beating Kerry.
Lets be honest - bar Roscommon second game Mayo have been terrible this year and now they are competing with Kerry.

I firmly believe that is AOS had not been full back Sunday Kerry would have plundered many more goals and Mayo would be out.

Bar ? game Kerry have been very average this year..

Up until the Kerry game the only time they performed any way well was v Roscommon in second game.
If AOS had not ben marking Star on Sunday they would be out IMHO

[Captain Obvious]

Any Mayo supporters slightly concerned at how they finished both halves last Sunday?  22 minutes was Mayos last score in the 1st half and in a half that was 40 minutes long and only scored one point in the last 16 minutes of the 2nd half.

One thing i noticed is the interest in this game has increased in the last 3 years. Attendance 52,495 for the drawn Kerry v Mayo semi final in 2014. Sunday the attendance was 66,195. The replay in Limerick had attendance of 36,256 what is the expected crowd this Saturday?

[Lar Naparka]

Finally some sense being spoken.

Donaghy has regularly destroyed full backs under the high ball and it is game over.
Mayo limited this avenue of scores on Sunday and gave themselves a chance of beating Kerry.
Lets be honest - bar Roscommon second game Mayo have been terrible this year and now they are competing with Kerry.

I firmly believe that is AOS had not been full back Sunday Kerry would have plundered many more goals and Mayo would be out.

Amen to that.
I'd go further and say that, once Donaghy didn't fetch the first few high balls cleanly that came his way, the O'Shea gamble had paid off. This Mayo team has traumatic memories of what happened in Limerick back in '14 and if Star had caught the first few high ones, the Mayo defence would have crumbled.
It would have been a collective case of "Here we go again."
It's alright saying that O'Shea would have been able to work wonders if he was playing midfield or centre forward but if Donaghy had been given a free hand at the other end, 'twouldn't matter a damn what Aido did or did not do.

He steadied the defence right from the off and that was his priority.
Now, if Leeroy had been in good shape, we'd be hailing Rochy as a tactical genius now. But O'Shea being stuck at FB and Keegan being off his oats was a double whammy that the team couldn't overcome.

[Syferus]

Finally some sense being spoken.

Donaghy has regularly destroyed full backs under the high ball and it is game over.
Mayo limited this avenue of scores on Sunday and gave themselves a chance of beating Kerry.
Lets be honest - bar Roscommon second game Mayo have been terrible this year and now they are competing with Kerry.

I firmly believe that is AOS had not been full back Sunday Kerry would have plundered many more goals and Mayo would be out.

Amen to that.
I'd go further and say that, once Donaghy didn't fetch the first few high balls cleanly that came his way, the O'Shea gamble had paid off. This Mayo team has traumatic memories of what happened in Limerick back in '14 and if Star had caught the first few high ones, the Mayo defence would have crumbled.
It would have been a collective case of "Here we go again."
It's alright saying that O'Shea would have been able to work wonders if he was playing midfield or centre forward but if Donaghy had been given a free hand at the other end, 'twouldn't matter a damn what Aido did or did not do.

He steadied the defence right from the off and that was his priority.
Now, if Leeroy had been in good shape, we'd be hailing Rochy as a tactical genius now. But O'Shea being stuck at FB and Keegan being off his oats was a double whammy that the team couldn't overcome.

Donaghy was given the freest hand I've seen in years on Sunday and contributed to a large amount of the damage caused.

[AZOffaly]

I don't remember *ANY* high balls between them, other than one loopy punt thing over near the Hogan Stand side of the field out about 20m, which AOS broke well. It wasn't exactly a standard Kerry diagonal ball to the edge of the square situation.

I think Kerry just didn't kick those balls in at all on Sunday, whether they decided not to chance it because AOS is a big unit himself, or whether they decided to run him out the field with Donaghy is a moot point.

[Cunny Funt]

If AOS had not ben marking Star on Sunday they would be out IMHO

Can you call way off your man as marking? too much thought was put into The Star by the too many cooks on the Mayo sideline. In Last years drawn AI final Mayos defence held the Dublin forward line to 0-2 from play any 6 Dublin forwards can cause more damage than one mid 30 year old forward.

AOS not "marking"  Donaghy on Saturday will prove even the Mayo management will know they got that gamble/experiment wrong last Sunday.

[ballinaman]

Griffin will surely get the chop with Morley going back to 3 and Johnathan Lyne coming in at 6?

Jack Barry to come in for Maher?

It'll be interesting to see if Kerry adopt a sweeper with 6 days preparation. I'd expect Mayo to be ready for a bolter in the form of Sean O Shea maybe....

Personally I'd go with

                Clarke
Harrison.    AOS.    Barrett

                Higgins             

Durcan.                   Boyle

           Parsons Keegan 

Kevin Mc.      Vaughan.   Diarmuid O C.

Cillian O C.     Jason Doc.     Moran

Shane Nally off the bench to score the winner in injury time........of extra time 

[Taylor]

If AOS had not ben marking Star on Sunday they would be out IMHO

Can you call way off your man as marking? too much thought was put into The Star by the too many cooks on the Mayo sideline. In Last years drawn AI final Mayos defence held the Dublin forward line to 0-2 from play any 6 Dublin forwards can cause more damage than one mid 30 year old forward.

AOS not "marking"  Donaghy on Saturday will prove even the Mayo management will know they got that gamble/experiment wrong last Sunday.

How many long high diagonal balls do Dublin play in (like they did when OGara was there).

How many long high diagonal balls did Kerry play in each game up until Sunday? One can only assume it was because AOS was there that they stopped this tactic