All Ireland Football semi-final;Mayo v Kerry,Sunday Aug 20

Started by maigheo, August 08, 2017, 03:38:11 AM

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Mayo4Sam14

Combined Mayo Kerry XV?

Clarke
Harrison Griffins Higgins
Durcan Keegan Murphy
Parsons Moran
Doherty AOS McLoughlin
Geaney Donaghy JOD
You can forget about Sean Cavanagh as far as he's a man!

joemamas

Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on August 22, 2017, 11:10:24 PM
Combined Mayo Kerry XV?

Clarke
Harrison Griffins Higgins
Durcan Keegan Murphy
Parsons Moran
Doherty AOS McLoughlin
Geaney Donaghy JOD

Hey how did you get on in the inter-cert ?.

brianboru00

Quote from: yellowcard on August 21, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
If Mayo are to win the replay they need to lose this obsession with Kieran Donaghy. Apart from fielding some high balls, when did this otherwise moderately talented 33 year old become the reincarnation of Maurice Fitzgerald.
I don't believe anyone has said he is. By moderately talented what do you mean? He is one of the best fielders of the ball, has excellent vision and very quick hands. He can take his own score and is an excellent team player who is as happy setting up scores as taking them.

He has made huge impacts to several high profile / important games including last Sunday despite not playing as well as he's capable of. Rochford showed a lack of respect putting AOS on him seeming to think he only has aerial ability.

lenny

Quote from: brianboru00 on August 23, 2017, 10:20:59 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 21, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
If Mayo are to win the replay they need to lose this obsession with Kieran Donaghy. Apart from fielding some high balls, when did this otherwise moderately talented 33 year old become the reincarnation of Maurice Fitzgerald.
I don't believe anyone has said he is. By moderately talented what do you mean? He is one of the best fielders of the ball, has excellent vision and very quick hands. He can take his own score and is an excellent team player who is as happy setting up scores as taking them.

He has made huge impacts to several high profile / important games including last Sunday despite not playing as well as he's capable of. Rochford showed a lack of respect putting AOS on him seeming to think he only has aerial ability.

His aerial ability has destroyed mayo in the past so from that point of view putting o'shea on him was a big success. o'shea's poor tackling was in the spotlight at full back though and his positional concentration was also poor at times. I don't think it was disastrous for mayo though and it wouldn't surprise me if they persisted with him back there. The long ball to donaghy is a big tactic for kerry and it took that away from their game.

AZOffaly

I think Kerry will hope Aidan O'Shea is back there.

2 reasons being a) They will be expecting it, and will probably tweak things to get Geaney and O'Donoghue into the game more off Donaghy's runs.
b) It stops O'Shea hurting them out the field.

Kerry will be more worried about their own full back line.

Armamike

Sticking O'Se on Donaghy doesn't say much about the management's faith in O'Se further forward. 
That's just, like your opinion man.


AZOffaly

That's what I was saying earlier. Whether you think the move succeeded or not depends on what they were trying to do. As a neutral, and just looking at the game as if it were a Junior B club game, it was clear that the Full Forward got the better of the Full Back in the game.

Now as I said before, if Rochford believes that Donaghy being influential in that manner is preferable to being a target man under a high ball, and he is willing to take O'Shea back from where he has been playing very well all year in order to do it, then he can say it worked.

If he switches back now, and Donaghy takes Seamus O'Shea or Donie Vaughan or whomever for 2-2, and sets up Geaney and O'Donoghue to do wreck, then Rochford will be eaten alive by the fans for backing away from his plan.

If he doesn't change, and Kerry utilise Donaghy as a decoy/playmaker even more, and he gets the better of O'Shea again, and this time Geaney and O'Donoghue run riot because of more space or something in there, he'll be eaten alive for persisting with the tactic.

Who'd be a manager?

ballinaman

Surprised that O'Shea isn't getting more stick....sure isn't he the one supposed to be picking the team.  ;)

rosnarun

Quote from: lenny on August 23, 2017, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on August 23, 2017, 10:20:59 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 21, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
If Mayo are to win the replay they need to lose this obsession with Kieran Donaghy. Apart from fielding some high balls, when did this otherwise moderately talented 33 year old become the reincarnation of Maurice Fitzgerald.
I don't believe anyone has said he is. By moderately talented what do you mean? He is one of the best fielders of the ball, has excellent vision and very quick hands. He can take his own score and is an excellent team player who is as happy setting up scores as taking them.

He has made huge impacts to several high profile / important games including last Sunday despite not playing as well as he's capable of. Rochford showed a lack of respect putting AOS on him seeming to think he only has aerial ability.

His aerial ability has destroyed mayo in the past so from that point of view putting o'shea on him was a big success. o'shea's poor tackling was in the spotlight at full back though and his positional concentration was also poor at times. I don't think it was disastrous for mayo though and it wouldn't surprise me if they persisted with him back there. The long ball to donaghy is a big tactic for kerry and it took that away from their game.
Limited does not mean bad . if your limited to catching highball infront of goal and either scoring or passing off for a score that a good limitation and more than makes up for being slow and ponderous out the field  .
another invaluable but limited player would be dean rock . not  a lot going on be will enf up with 8 top 10 points in most games .
then again you have really limited players like Enda smyth who is limited to one good game every few years
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

brianboru00

Quote from: lenny on August 23, 2017, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: brianboru00 on August 23, 2017, 10:20:59 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 21, 2017, 02:51:05 PM
If Mayo are to win the replay they need to lose this obsession with Kieran Donaghy. Apart from fielding some high balls, when did this otherwise moderately talented 33 year old become the reincarnation of Maurice Fitzgerald.
I don't believe anyone has said he is. By moderately talented what do you mean? He is one of the best fielders of the ball, has excellent vision and very quick hands. He can take his own score and is an excellent team player who is as happy setting up scores as taking them.

He has made huge impacts to several high profile / important games including last Sunday despite not playing as well as he's capable of. Rochford showed a lack of respect putting AOS on him seeming to think he only has aerial ability.

His aerial ability has destroyed mayo in the past so from that point of view putting o'shea on him was a big success. o'shea's poor tackling was in the spotlight at full back though and his positional concentration was also poor at times. I don't think it was disastrous for mayo though and it wouldn't surprise me if they persisted with him back there. The long ball to donaghy is a big tactic for kerry and it took that away from their game.

I don't think its that big a tactic, like they don't persist with it ad nauseum its something they do from time to time but the fact that they have the best full forward under a high ball possibly in the history of the game means that when successful it means goals  and the percentage of success is quite high.

I don't think the article defending Rochford is looking at all the angles. The weather and Mayos pressure on the kickers in the middle third did most of the limitation. Even with AOS there I think Donaghy will beat him under a high ball as he'll attack it but not at maximum height - rather jumping and catching it with his arms out in front of him. Donaghy also set up another goal chance that should have been scored, missed a point with his own poor shot and then ballooned another attempt albeit one of the five he was involved with as it was scored by Geaney I think.
From the article "And yet, people expect Aidan O'Shea to dominate a man mountain like Donaghy in a wide open game, without giving Donaghy credit for being way more than just a target man." Again its not that there was an expectation anyone would dominate Donaghy - its the fact he was no where in the vicinity of putting pressure on Donaghy throughout the game - it wasn't even a contest. Vaughan for one would certainly have been closer and managed to restrict the amount of influence from Donaghy. If there was an aerial threat then again I would submit Vaughan would have done as well as O'Shea would do in this situation.
I think its a disaster waiting to happen for Mayo.

On the flip side was part of the reason Moran and Doherty made hay because O Se didn't hold up the ball as much - not sure whether it was on here that suggestion was made but I think its an interesting observation.

Armamike

That's just, like your opinion man.

highorlow

They get momentum, they go mad, here they go

vallankumous

#658
Quote from: highorlow on August 23, 2017, 01:07:02 PM
http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/

Good one here by an spailpin on the full back situation.

Thanks for that. Finally some sense being talked. The rush to be the first to decide what happened with the tactical change left a race to the bottom. Once the pundits raced to ridicule it, anyone who applied reason to the idea were left questioning themselves. Making it progressively worse. It was so easy to criticize the pundits just ran with that.
Throw in the Kerry stacked media's love to praise Donaghey and criticize O'Shea on top of it.

Are there questions that could be asked of the Mayo management? You betcha there are questions, but not one of them has anything to do with Aidan O'Shea playing fullback on Sunday. Not one. The very worst you could say about it is that the case is not proven, and if there are problems in the way Mayo set up it'll take more than a straight swap between Aidan O'Shea and Donie Vaughan to solve them. Up Mayo.

AZOffaly

I suppose at the end of the day, the question is "Does playing Aidan O'Shea at full back make you more or less likely to win the game, all things considered?"

It's the same question that applies to all positional/personnel decisions.

If Rochford feels the answer, having looked at it last week, is "Yes", then he has to go with his gut. If he feels that it's "No", because Donaghy clearly won the man on man battle, albeit in a different way, or because he feels he lost too much out the field, then he should change it.

The rest is just noise.