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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: theticklemister on February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM

Title: Super 8s
Post by: theticklemister on February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM
New catchphrase lads... big dick said so
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Tubberman on February 19, 2017, 10:59:35 PM
Big Dickie must have had a good chat with his fellow farney man,he sang the tune he was taught!
I can't help feeling the super 8 will widen the gap between the haves and have nots. It will be great viewing for a couple of years, but then people will get sick of seeing the same teams coming out of it year after year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: theticklemister on February 19, 2017, 11:02:07 PM
I agree tubberman.

Big dick said as he was told
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 19, 2017, 11:56:53 PM
People are already sick of the same teams year on year.

Open draw is the only way to go. Will never happen though
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: moysider on February 20, 2017, 12:18:49 AM
People are already sick of the same teams year on year.

Open draw is the only way to go. Will never happen though

It will never happen because it would be a disaster.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 20, 2017, 02:16:28 AM
Big Dickie must have had a good chat with his fellow farney man,he sang the tune he was taught!
I can't help feeling the super 8 will widen the gap between the haves and have nots. It will be great viewing for a couple of years, but then people will get sick of seeing the same teams coming out of it year after year.

But will it be great viewing? Dragging out an already too long championship just to make a few bucks and cover for the fall in attendances, without really addressing why people are turning away from the game.

I can't believe any county board would be so base as to support this motion just in the vain hope of a few extra Euro.

Oh wait. I can.

It's everyone that's not in the Super Nth that need the extra games..
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 20, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
People are already sick of the same teams year on year.

Open draw is the only way to go. Will never happen though

It will never happen because it would be a disaster.

In an ideal world it would not, but as has been said numerous times here, (using my own county as an exsmple) Mayo v Wexford wouldn't have the same appeal to it as Mayo v Galway in the first round.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 09:57:28 AM
People are already sick of the same teams year on year.

Open draw is the only way to go. Will never happen though

It will never happen because it would be a disaster.

In an ideal world it would not, but as has been said numerous times here, (using my own county as an exsmple) Mayo v Wexford wouldn't have the same appeal to it as Mayo v Galway in the first round.

But Mayo Galway never play in the first round. And is Mayo Wexford any less appealing than Kerry Waterford or Dublin Carlow?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 20, 2017, 09:58:45 AM
People are already sick of the same teams year on year.

Open draw is the only way to go. Will never happen though

It will never happen because it would be a disaster.

In an ideal world it would not, but as has been said numerous times here, (using my own county as an exsmple) Mayo v Wexford wouldn't have the same appeal to it as Mayo v Galway in the first round.

Why would it be a disaster? And Mayo v Dublin would be far more attractive than Mayo v Galway. There is very little to recommend the current system so a change is urgently required. The issue should be what the new system is not whether the current one should be changed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 10:14:53 AM
If super 8s is passed, it'll be 3 competitions in one. Provincial c'ships are pointless and devalued, time to get rid. Back door is boring. Even Ulster, the most competitive is boring and pointless. The whole c'ship doesn't get remotely interesting until August. The c'ship needs woken up with a bang in May/June, with a humdinger weekend of games like Kerry Mayo or Dublin Tyrone. Straight knock out, no second chance. People would go mental for tickets.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 20, 2017, 10:19:52 AM
I did say in an ideal world. The point I'm trying to make is that there would be more tension in a Mayo Galway match than Mayo Wexford, Carlow. Even in the Mayo/Tipp semi last year, the butterflies never really surfaced because there is no real rivalry there. But it is worth trying as you said Benny.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 20, 2017, 10:23:30 AM
I did say in an ideal world. The point I'm trying to make is that there would be more tension in a Mayo Galway match than Mayo Wexford, Carlow. Even in the Mayo/Tipp semi last year, the butterflies never really surfaced because there is no real rivalry there. But it is worth trying as you said Benny.

But Farr you compared the biggest Connacht rivalry against a non-event. Leitrim Mayo would hardly get many Mayo fans nervous, in contrast Mayo against Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal, Cork, Kerry, Dublin and maybe a few more would.

The bottom line is what we have doesn't work so lets try something else.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 20, 2017, 11:04:07 AM
If super 8s is passed, it'll be 3 competitions in one. Provincial c'ships are pointless and devalued, time to get rid. Back door is boring. Even Ulster, the most competitive is boring and pointless. The whole c'ship doesn't get remotely interesting until August. The c'ship needs woken up with a bang in May/June, with a humdinger weekend of games like Kerry Mayo or Dublin Tyrone. Straight knock out, no second chance. People would go mental for tickets.
Benny, I don't quite follow. Is it an open draw you're suggesting? So the chances of Dublin v Tyrone coming out are the same as Dublin v Carlow. What would be the point in that. And if you did somehow get Kerry v Mayo and Dublin v Tyrone in the first round, and all that goes with it, surely the subsequent rounds would be weaker with these teams eliminated?

When is congress by the way?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 11:10:07 AM
I mentioned the phrase Super 8 the day the proposal was announced.
I think it's the other 24 that need round Robin games which would help teams with potential to improve and be competitive with the big 8.

Can't believe that some people are still promoting the 32 County open draw lottery.
At least the Semis and most quarter finals are competitive under the present system but if good teams were knocking each other out along the way we'll be back to the kind of semi final massacres we used to have in the 70s, 80's and early 90s.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
If super 8s is passed, it'll be 3 competitions in one. Provincial c'ships are pointless and devalued, time to get rid. Back door is boring. Even Ulster, the most competitive is boring and pointless. The whole c'ship doesn't get remotely interesting until August. The c'ship needs woken up with a bang in May/June, with a humdinger weekend of games like Kerry Mayo or Dublin Tyrone. Straight knock out, no second chance. People would go mental for tickets.
Benny, I don't quite follow. Is it an open draw you're suggesting? So the chances of Dublin v Tyrone coming out are the same as Dublin v Carlow. What would be the point in that. And if you did somehow get Kerry v Mayo and Dublin v Tyrone in the first round, and all that goes with it, surely the subsequent rounds would be weaker with these teams eliminated?

When is congress by the way?

Yes chances are low of Krry Dublin say but not impossible. Even if we had no big games in the first round, odds are we would in second. So really we could see Kerry, Dublin or Mayo go out after 2 games. It would mean teams play at same time, same amount of games, fixed calendar etc.

And yes, if we had Kerry Mayo, Dub Tyrone in first round, that would mean we maybe had Carlow Leitrim Antrim etc progressing further but you say that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't the weaker teams get to an AI semi, and afforded the opportunity because of the luck of the draw? Think of what a Carlow Antrim AI semi would do for those counties. Everyone moans because they're sick of Kerry Dublin Mayo in last 4 yet moan too of the possibility of a Leitrim or Louth getting there!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 20, 2017, 11:21:09 AM
I mentioned the phrase Super 8 the day the proposal was announced.
I think it's the other 24 that need round Robin games which would help teams with potential to improve and be competitive with the big 8.

Can't believe that some people are still promoting the 32 County open draw lottery.
At least the Semis and most quarter finals are competitive under the present system but if good teams were knocking each other out along the way we'll be back to the kind of semi final massacres we used to have in the 70s, 80's and early 90s.

I wouldn't support a strict open draw. The answer is staring everyone in the face, link the league to championship and seed the championship. The league is finally catching on with crowds in excess of 10K not uncommon in division 1. Until we make the league a central part of our season then we will have a poor system.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sambostar on February 20, 2017, 11:31:18 AM
I think the solution for the GAA is to go back a version of the way the league was run in the late 80's/early 90's. Then is you won Div3 you got a shot at one of the Div1 teams in the QF's. It would need to be adapted to maybe have knock-out starting at last-16 stage, so you'd have say 6 spots for Div1, 5 for Div2, 3 for Div3, 2 for Div4. You would keep promotion/relegation as is.

You would play provincial championships & any team making the provincial final is guaranteed a place in the last 16 also - so this keeps them meaningful for teams. Provincial winners could be guaranteed a home draw in the last 16 too to keep it worth winning for the big teams who are likely going to be in Div1 top 6.

You could organise fixtures by playing 4 rounds of the league over 6-7 weeks say in March/April. Then break for 5-6 weeks for club football. Then back in July to play provincial championships. August & September you finish off the remaining league games & AI series.

Do you think this would get through congress?  ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 20, 2017, 11:34:46 AM
If super 8s is passed, it'll be 3 competitions in one. Provincial c'ships are pointless and devalued, time to get rid. Back door is boring. Even Ulster, the most competitive is boring and pointless. The whole c'ship doesn't get remotely interesting until August. The c'ship needs woken up with a bang in May/June, with a humdinger weekend of games like Kerry Mayo or Dublin Tyrone. Straight knock out, no second chance. People would go mental for tickets.
Benny, I don't quite follow. Is it an open draw you're suggesting? So the chances of Dublin v Tyrone coming out are the same as Dublin v Carlow. What would be the point in that. And if you did somehow get Kerry v Mayo and Dublin v Tyrone in the first round, and all that goes with it, surely the subsequent rounds would be weaker with these teams eliminated?

When is congress by the way?

Yes chances are low of Krry Dublin say but not impossible. Even if we had no big games in the first round, odds are we would in second. So really we could see Kerry, Dublin or Mayo go out after 2 games. It would mean teams play at same time, same amount of games, fixed calendar etc.

And yes, if we had Kerry Mayo, Dub Tyrone in first round, that would mean we maybe had Carlow Leitrim Antrim etc progressing further but you say that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't the weaker teams get to an AI semi, and afforded the opportunity because of the luck of the draw? Think of what a Carlow Antrim AI semi would do for those counties. Everyone moans because they're sick of Kerry Dublin Mayo in last 4 yet moan too of the possibility of a Leitrim or Louth getting there!
I didn't. I mentioned it in relation to your point about how great it would be for a Dublin v Tyrone draw in the first round, with ticket sales etc. If that happened then further down the line you could get a game like Dublin v the winner of Antrim v Leitrim where there'd likely be little of the anticipation that you highlighted in round 1.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 11:45:18 AM
Esmeralda, Dublin Leitrim in Round 2. Is that any less appealing than Dublin v Longford in a Leinster QF or Kerry Waterford in a Munster semi?

Yes there will be mismatches, but there will with any system.

Your point on weaker subsequent rounds - the whole point for 32 teams involved is to afford them every chance of success. Yes Antrim mightn't be as good as Mayo but an open draw would afford them the possibility of success, like the other 31.

We've had 11 different AI winners since 1960, including Derry andArmaghs one win. Its boring and needs a shake up.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 20, 2017, 11:57:04 AM
No, it's not. Again, my point was in reply to what you suggested was needed in round 1 to get people interested. The contrast between what you said was needed and what could potentially happen is huge.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 12:00:48 PM
Antrim or Leitrim won't win the AI unless you bar 20 Counties from taking part.
Do we let the 4 D4 teams play a KO competition with the winner getting to the AI Final?
The winner of a D3 competition get to the Semis whee they play the winner of a competition between the 16 D1 and Dr teams?
Do we handicap D1 teams say -6 points, D2 -4, D3 -0 and D4 +3.????
Or do we let the best teams meet in the closing stages of what is a CHAMPIONSHIP  not a social welfare game??
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 20, 2017, 12:10:12 PM
I agree, the IC championship shouldn't be about handicapping the best to allow inferior teams get further. All it has to be is a fair, well structured competition that means team A and team Z play the same number of games to win it and if you improve you can do better. There's hundreds of examples of well run fair competitions from around the world we just need to modify one to suit our needs.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 12:16:28 PM
Last year Tipp beat Cork in Munster. People in Kerry were complaining because they were geared up for meeting cork in Killarney. The annual summer outing, big crowd, pubs full, money for the town. That's what Munster is, Kerry v cork. It's predicable and boring. And both teams know they just have to be geared up for August regardless of where the Munster title resides.

An open draw mightn't give you Dub Kerry or Mayo Tyrone in round 1 or indeed any interesting ties. But when is the first interesting tie as it is? Maybe an ulster final in july. Give the big teams a shake up, Kerry heading to ulster in round 1 will get their arse in gear. Yes the cream usually rises to the top but at least vary things. You could have Dublin in Enniskillen or Tyrone to Salthill, Kerry to Clones.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 20, 2017, 12:31:25 PM
Last year Tipp beat Cork in Munster. People in Kerry were complaining because they were geared up for meeting cork in Killarney. The annual summer outing, big crowd, pubs full, money for the town. That's what Munster is, Kerry v cork. It's predicable and boring. And both teams know they just have to be geared up for August regardless of where the Munster title resides.

An open draw mightn't give you Dub Kerry or Mayo Tyrone in round 1 or indeed any interesting ties. But when is the first interesting tie as it is? Maybe an ulster final in july. Give the big teams a shake up, Kerry heading to ulster in round 1 will get their arse in gear. Yes the cream usually rises to the top but at least vary things. You could have Dublin in Enniskillen or Tyrone to Salthill, Kerry to Clones.
Except last year it wasn't.

Doesn't the back door give us unpredictable games? The current system is flawed but there seems to be endless threads on what is wrong and it's proving very difficult to come up with a solution to keep everyone happy.

In fairness to Padraic Duffy, he acknowledged this final point in the introduction to his new proposal. The "Super 8s" is something he seems to have come up with himself, but the keeping of the provincials, not introducing a second-tier competition etc. is the feedback he's received from the stakeholders.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 04:29:04 PM
Last year it wasn't, but that's what theyve become accustomed to. I'd imagine Kerry and Cork are sick of the sight of each other. A rivalry is great and all, but when it happens constantly, it begins to lose it's appeal.

You do get the odd unpredictable game in the back door. Longford, Wicklow or Sligo might win 2 or 3 games, then stuffed by Kerry or Dublin in last eight. The big teams might get caught once, but not twice. A c'ship is not the same when it's not straight knock-out.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 20, 2017, 05:23:46 PM
there should be three or four super 8 competitions imho

one for the top teams, next best 8 and weakest 8.
it would give every team something to aim for.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 05:40:39 PM
How about we call it the National Football League?
Anyway there are 3 motions for Congress
The HQ one for the Super 8
One from Laois proposing replacing Round 1 of the Qualifiers with 4 groups of 4
One from Carlow which I can't recall exactly but as far as I recall proposes starting Qualifiers earlier.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Derry Optimist on February 20, 2017, 05:58:21 PM
If the All Ireland championship is to be really competitive on a consistently regular basis the only solution is to abolish the current Provincial format and replace it with a system based on equality for all.The different no of counties in each provinces simply copper fastens the glaring inequalities at present which make it easier for Munster and Connacht provincial winners to reach the All Ireland Quarter finals.
In addition and to make every county in Ireland to have at least a realistic chance of being at least competitive at their own level I believe there should be three graded and separate championships such as those which exist in most County club championships ie Senior,Intermediate and Junior.There should be twelve counties in the Senior(Sam Maguire Cup),ten in Intermediate and ten in the Junior championship.Current league placings should determine which county plays in which championship.The games in the  final stages of these latter two could act as curtain risers to  last 8 Senior games in Croke park or wherever they are played.
Do I think that these thoughts of mine will become a reality? Highly unlikely I would suggest simply because most counties, especially the so-called weaker ones live, in the dreamland of thinking that this will be their year to win the long awaited Provincial title. So they hire the dearest manager who trains his panellists for four or five nights a week until the more intelligent players/ fringe panellists get fed up with the disproportionate ratio of training sessions to actual matches and then drop out.Eventually the manager is short of at least ten of his best players and ten of his fringe players. The rest lose heart, more matches are lost( the manager is now playing a practically reserve team)and the manager is forced to resign.There is no money left in the coffers and the supporters blame everybody except the provincial system which they slavishly adhere to.
If this trend keeps being replicated year in year out more and more players will become disillusioned and we will only be left with the Super 8.Can some GAA visionary with  courage and foresight not appeal to the masses and explain how our great game is being eroded in terms of non competitive  and unfair championship structures on the one hand and the presence of an unsightly ultra defensive playing system on the other?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 20, 2017, 07:34:50 PM
A simple exercise would be to ask congress delegates the following.
"Who here is from a junior club? Put up your hand."
"Who here is from an intermediate club? Put up your hand."
"Who here is from a senior club? Put up your hand."

"Now, leave your hand up if you think every club in your county should play in an ungraded championship with one winner at the end of it all."

I guarantee you the junior & intermediate lads wouldn't be long taking their hands down.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
Derry and Down were affected with players opting out. Now both are unlikely to be winning an AI, but what is the drop out rate in Waterford, Carlow, Limerick etc? Derry/Down at least have won AI and NFL in recent years/played in Div 1. Why would a Waterford player commit to a Div 4 campaign and early c'ship exit? Maybe this is a reason why such counties don't improve.

The current set up is elitist and the Super 8 moreso.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 20, 2017, 08:00:19 PM
A simple exercise would be to ask congress delegates the following.
"Who here is from a junior club? Put up your hand."
"Who here is from an intermediate club? Put up your hand."
"Who here is from a senior club? Put up your hand."

"Now, leave your hand up if you think every club in your county should play in an ungraded championship with one winner at the end of it all."

I guarantee you the junior & intermediate lads wouldn't be long taking their hands down.
Sounds like a great idea.
Why hasn't someone else come up with that?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 08:04:07 PM
All competitive sport creates elitism by its very nature.
Are you going to let Waterford get a bye to the final or what?
Senior/Inter/Junior for the AI  is so logical it's a no brainer but anyone here over 40 won't live to see it.
You can still have your Provincials with everyone entering and a League of some sort too if you want.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 20, 2017, 08:14:14 PM
My main concern in all of this is that we reduce the number of trophies being handed out from 5 to 1 in championship terms. That mightn't seem a huge issue for some but those counties outside the big 3 it's often a rare and historic chance to nail down some silverware.

For example last year Tyrone would have just had a "good year" with f**k all really to show for it if there were no provincial championship. Quality footballers such as Dermot McCabe, Conor McManus, Mark Breheny, Karl Mannion, Kevin Cassidy amongst others would have f**k all to show for their careers bar the piecemeal allstars.

I have to laugh that everyone thinks that they've imagined the ideal championship and the cure for all our ills. People heralded the back door as the tonic for the weaker teams. The decade before the back door produced 7 different winners of the All Ireland and a variety of runners
-up. The decade after the back door produced only 5. This decade has produced only 3 so far and there'd be slim odds that it will surpass 5.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 08:23:24 PM
Only 4 AI winners in the 70's and 5 in the 80's I think.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 20, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
The back door was designed to give weaker teams a second chance.
By default, this also meant that stronger teams also got a second chance.
Don't think anyone really though it would result in the likes of Carlow winning an All-Ireland.
It did however result in 'middle-tier' teams like Fermanagh & Sligo progressing further in the championship than they could have hoped to under the previous structure.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 20, 2017, 08:54:00 PM
I can understand why he big counties like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc voting in favour of these proposals. What I don't understand is how delegates from smaller counties would vote for these proposals if they genuinely have no heir counties best interest at heart. It's not as if Padraic Duffy is touring the country to try and sell his proposals around the counties!!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 20, 2017, 09:21:07 PM
I can understand why he big counties like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc voting in favour of these proposals. What I don't understand is how delegates from smaller counties would vote for these proposals if they genuinely have no heir counties best interest at heart. It's not as if Padraic Duffy is touring the country to try and sell his proposals around the counties!!

Duffy's probably greasing the wheels with wink-nod offers of development grants and the like. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours and all that shite. Don't underestimate turkeys' ability to vote for Christmas..
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dubhaltach on February 20, 2017, 09:34:39 PM
I can understand why he big counties like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc voting in favour of these proposals. What I don't understand is how delegates from smaller counties would vote for these proposals if they genuinely have no heir counties best interest at heart. It's not as if Padraic Duffy is touring the country to try and sell his proposals around the counties!!

They've added in a sweetener for weaker counties by giving division 3 and 4 counties home advantage in the qualifiers. The proposals also say that 'A significant proportion of this increase (cash from the super 8s) should be ring-fenced for development of our games in less successful counties.'

While the proposals will be of little real benefit to the smaller counties, they're still a bit better than what's currently there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 20, 2017, 09:36:58 PM
I can understand why he big counties like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc voting in favour of these proposals. What I don't understand is how delegates from smaller counties would vote for these proposals if they genuinely have no heir counties best interest at heart. It's not as if Padraic Duffy is touring the country to try and sell his proposals around the counties!!

Duffy's probably greasing the wheels with wink-nod offers of development grants and the like. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours and all that shite. Don't underestimate turkeys' ability to vote for Christmas..

Wouldn't surprise me. Its ridiculous that he has been going around canvassing support for this motion. Then you have his fellow county man Dick Clerkin wheeled out last night to add weight to the argument. They are telling everyone how to vote, only in Ireland could this happen.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 20, 2017, 09:40:36 PM
In all honestly none  of these new proposals will mean f**k all. The big counties will still win out, players will still be torn away from their clubs and there will still be hammerings of weaker sides. No system will be much better than what's there already as there all pretty similar. The only mark of any change which will win out will be the continued inexonerable slide towards a semi-professional/ professional elite and economic interests of Mckenna et al.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: theticklemister on February 20, 2017, 09:54:12 PM
As someone said before hand, its the weaker counties who need more games, not the biggest. How can they improve if they don't get more games. Leitrim may get 2/3 games in FBD League, 7 in league and 2 in cship. They will not improve on this. GLOSSED OVER

It's the same with the defensive system and puke football. They introduced the mark. This still doesn't stop teams from playing this ultra defensive system. GLOSSED OVER

ON TWO OCCASIONS THEY HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS THE PROPER ISSUES.

What are all the county's consensuses on this matter does anyone know? will they get 2/3?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 20, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
theticklemister, if Leitrim wanted to/were able to improve, why wouldn't they start with the league? Set out goals to get promoted to Division 3 in the x years. That would be a step forward, interest among all GAA people in the county would increase I'd have thought. Try to progress that way and take it from there. If you try to let teams like Leitrim have more competitive games, aren't they going to be of a similar nature to what they encounter in Division 4 already, only in the summer?

As for the senior, intermediate, junior proposals, how many times does it need to be said that they players from the weaker counties don't want it? They also want to retain the provincials.

For all those that love the Duffy-bashing and telling us what the cheeky devil is really up to (greasing wheels and such), could you imagine if he'd come up with a proposal that got rid of either of these when players from the weaker counties wanted them retained?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2017, 10:38:51 PM
Emeralda since when did players from the weaker Counties become the ruling body if the GAA?
The 3 grades would give weaker Counties a Summer competition they'd have a chance of winning and getting promoted to a higher grade. The present system more often than not gives them 2 defeats sometimes by big margins.
It's not a revolutionary proposal - it already happens across the 32 Counties in club Championships.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 20, 2017, 10:41:26 PM
Maybe we shouldn't pay so much attention to what the players want.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 20, 2017, 10:59:02 PM
Of course the players want high level exposure against the best teams and who can blame them. But it doesn't make it the right system and it is not the players job to govern the sport.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 21, 2017, 08:30:03 AM
Rossfan, I didn't say they're the ruling body. They're one stakeholder, but a very important one I think you'd agree. Duffy listened to what they had to say and included it when coming up with his proposal.

The point is that you need to bring the players with you. If you decide, in 2017, to scrap the provincials and bring in a three-tiered championship you'll cause mayhem and it won't get through congress.

Duffy is accused of all sorts but when his proposal reflects the desires of the players he's criticised too.

Who else would you all consider should be listened to ahead of the players?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 09:51:58 AM
I said keep the Provincials
I said  replicating club systems at I C level won't happen in my lifetime
I don't and haven't  criticised Partick Duffy
Players with weaker Counties are one of many stakeholders but they will be around for about 5 or 6 years, officials, supporters etc will be around a lot longer.
Talking to/listening to one particular group is good but doesn't mean giving them a veto.
As I said before time the GAA set up a Group to look at 2040/2050 - competitions, demographics, organisational structures and so on ( but NOT fixtures calendar - that needs sorting out NOW).
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: screenexile on February 21, 2017, 10:04:44 AM
Does this new system mean it may be possible for Dublin/Kerry/Mayo to get beaten twice and still make an All Ireland Final/Win an All Ireland??
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 21, 2017, 10:05:55 AM
Does this new system mean it may be possible for Dublin/Kerry/Mayo to get beaten twice and still make an All Ireland Final/Win an All Ireland??
Appears so.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on February 21, 2017, 10:12:34 AM
one of the main issues regarding any kind of change is the need to keep up the illusion that all teams are equal and its a mortal sin to treat them as anything else.
yet hurling does not have this problem are they elitist or just more realistic?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 21, 2017, 10:16:57 AM
one of the main issues regarding any kind of change is the need to keep up the illusion that all teams are equal and its a mortal sin to treat them as anything else.
yet hurling does not have this problem are they elitist or just more realistic?

Elitist, marginal and nonsensical.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 11:12:18 AM
Does this new system mean it may be possible for Dublin/Kerry/Mayo to get beaten twice and still make an All Ireland Final/Win an All Ireland??
Yes. Could lose in the Provincials and lose a group game. But technically they are separate competitions.
Syfīn there's far more nonsense in your insulting post than Rosnarun's factual one.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on February 21, 2017, 11:15:17 AM
In the GAA proposal document they state:
The new structure will guarantee eight additional major games at venues within the provinces, which is particularly important in the context of the Association’s investment in stadiums other than Croke Park. In addition, the playing of decisive matches of the championship in provincial venues will counter the Dublin-centred bias of the current structure. It will also bring top teams to provincial venues that they would never otherwise visit in the championship.

Team 1 and team 2 are always the provincial winners so lets say for argument we expect Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Tyrone.

Team 1 always play team 2 in Croke park which means Dublin will always play one of their big rivals with home
advantage so we will never see Kerry v Dublin in Killarney or Mayo v Dublin in Castlebar. Would it not be fairer if they held them in a neutral venue like Clones or in the new Cork stadium (or Killarney if Dubs v Cork). Yes less revenue but a lot fairer to provincial winners outside Leinster.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 21, 2017, 11:41:14 AM
I said keep the Provincials
I said  replicating club systems at I C level won't happen in my lifetime
I don't and haven't  criticised Partick Duffy
Players with weaker Counties are one of many stakeholders but they will be around for about 5 or 6 years, officials, supporters etc will be around a lot longer.
Talking to/listening to one particular group is good but doesn't mean giving them a veto.
As I said before time the GAA set up a Group to look at 2040/2050 - competitions, demographics, organisational structures and so on ( but NOT fixtures calendar - that needs sorting out NOW).
I know all that. Only the initial part of my reply was directed at you although you did seem to back the three-tiered system without mentioning that it won't happen anytime soon.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 21, 2017, 12:00:12 PM
When was the last time a major change in the GAA was welcomed by EVERYONE?
Sometimes you just have to do what's best and to hell with populism.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 21, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
When was the last time a major change in the GAA was welcomed by EVERYONE?
Sometimes you just have to do what's best and to hell with populism.
Yes, but you also have to put forward something that has a chance of getting through.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 01:04:02 PM
I said keep the Provincials
I said  replicating club systems at I C level won't happen in my lifetime
I don't and haven't  criticised Partick Duffy
Players with weaker Counties are one of many stakeholders but they will be around for about 5 or 6 years, officials, supporters etc will be around a lot longer.
Talking to/listening to one particular group is good but doesn't mean giving them a veto.
As I said before time the GAA set up a Group to look at 2040/2050 - competitions, demographics, organisational structures and so on ( but NOT fixtures calendar - that needs sorting out NOW).
I know all that. Only the initial part of my reply was directed at you although you did seem to back the three-tiered system without mentioning that it won't happen anytime soon.
Go back a page or 2 - I said no one over 40 would live to see it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: thewobbler on February 21, 2017, 01:23:17 PM
I (personally, yes... me, everyone please look at me) did solve almost all the issues described in this thread, in a proposal a couple of years ago.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.msg1475581


People of course found a couple of new issues (such as when Tyrone endure both a dreadful league and provincial championship, their fans still expect them to be awarded a place in the last 16, plus some people expect the progress of weaker teams to be stymied, even though they'd be getting just as many games... and the majority of the them in an extremely competitive environment), but as I say, most of this thread's bugbears are put to bed.
 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 01:25:34 PM
When was the last time a major change in the GAA was welcomed by EVERYONE?
Sometimes you just have to do what's best and to hell with populism.

Who decides what is best? You?

Sickening arrogance.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Taylor on February 21, 2017, 01:45:55 PM
Ultimately the provinces are the issue here.

How much would the individual councils stand to lose if it went to say for example an open draw?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
Players, county boards and a significant number of fans like the provincials, and like the fact that everyone is in the All IReland Championship.

Media seem to hate it, because they are sick of early season mismatches.


I think the compromise is to link the championship to the leagues, based on a seeding, into the Provincials. Let the lower seeds play off before the high seeds come on board.

It means you wouldn't have your championship pairings until the end of the league, but does that matter?

Also, no qualifiers. Screw that.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: thewobbler on February 21, 2017, 01:55:00 PM
Ultimately the provinces are the issue here.

How much would the individual councils stand to lose if it went to say for example an open draw?

1. The GAA absolutely needs provincial boards to administer and control games across the country; it is simply not possible to coordinate the competing needs of Derry and Donegal from an office in Dublin. Therefore taking away the provincial board's prized possession and cash cow is never going to happen. Everyone needs to be pragmatic here. This isn't "turkeys don't vote for Christmas" so much as "turkeys don't eat other turkeys".
 

2. While I would fancy Tyrone to win 9.99998 times out of 10 vs Antrim in a USFC game, you can be guaranteed that Antrim will put their heart and should into that game, hence 10,000 people will feel it is worth driving 40-odd miles and forking out £15 for the pleasure. But Wicklow vs Tyrone in an open draw? No thanks... we'll wait and see who Tyrone draw in the last 16. A football championship is all about whittling the competitors down to a final two. The provincial championships at least provide side stories in that process.


Always recall these two things before demanding the provincials are axed. Yep they're lopsided. But we'll balancing some form of imperfection with any system.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 21, 2017, 03:26:28 PM
When was the last time a major change in the GAA was welcomed by EVERYONE?
Sometimes you just have to do what's best and to hell with populism.

Who decides what is best? You?

Sickening arrogance.

I actually favour the Kildare approach which uses artificial intelligence to evaluate the best course of action.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


'Kildare delegate Sean Brady 2.0, pondering all those moments lost in time listening to Paraic Duffy, like tears in rain.'
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on February 21, 2017, 04:04:52 PM
1. The GAA absolutely needs provincial boards to administer and control games across the country; it is simply not possible to coordinate the competing needs of Derry and Donegal from an office in Dublin. Therefore taking away the provincial board's prized possession and cash cow is never going to happen. Everyone needs to be pragmatic here. This isn't "turkeys don't vote for Christmas" so much as "turkeys don't eat other turkeys".
 

2. While I would fancy Tyrone to win 9.99998 times out of 10 vs Antrim in a USFC game, you can be guaranteed that Antrim will put their heart and should into that game, hence 10,000 people will feel it is worth driving 40-odd miles and forking out £15 for the pleasure. But Wicklow vs Tyrone in an open draw? No thanks... we'll wait and see who Tyrone draw in the last 16. A football championship is all about whittling the competitors down to a final two. The provincial championships at least provide side stories in that process.

Always recall these two things before demanding the provincials are axed. Yep they're lopsided. But we'll balancing some form of imperfection with any system.

Food for thought there wobbler - good post - and I say that as someone who feels the current system is unfair, and the Provincial Championships underpin that unfairness, and that we need some sort of change to freshen things up.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 04:32:16 PM
significant number of fans like the provincials, and like the fact that everyone is in the All IReland Championship.

428,725 at 32 Provincial games in 2016 would certainly confirm that they like the Provincials
12,941 at 9 First Round All Ireland games would suggest a lot of fans don't like everyone being in the 1 All Ireland


The 8 second round games gave us 34,000 with 12,000 of them at the Rhubarb game.

It means you wouldn't have your championship pairings until the end of the league, but does that matter? If it got rid of that daft "draws" programme in October it would be worth it for that alone

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on February 21, 2017, 05:14:38 PM
Am I missing something here. I have long been of the opinion that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world, drawing in massive audiences both live and on TV to watch both codes from a relatively small pool of people on this island [mainly]. It also has an absolutely unparalleled community, cultural and volunteer ethos.

When I read this thread however I could be forgiven for thinking that the organisation and the sport is dying on it's feet and that nobody goes to watch the games. The amount of angst on here about the divers ways to 'improve' the system is astonishing. Maybe I am a conservative [never thought I would say that lol] but those proposing changes can never see any negatives with introducing new radical formats or dispensing with or sidelining the provincial championships, structures which have made the GAA the fantastic organisation it is today.

I would caution you to be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 21, 2017, 05:55:45 PM
Massive crowds don't go to see our games because of the competition format nor do people volunteer for their club or county for that reason.

Nobody is claiming alternative formats are perfect or that the sport is dying but there are serious weaknesses and the sporting and entertainment worlds have changed massively. There's no point in saying the provincial championships have served us well when they existed primarily when sport was hardly ever on TV until the past 20-30 years.

People can now see dozens of high level soccer games on TV each week or go to European cup rugby games 7 or 8 times a year. That wasn't a reality for most of us growing up yet how many times can Kerry fans (for example) go a watch them play a genuine competitive game against top opposition at home?

We have a daft system and it will hinder us in the future if we don't address it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Maroon Manc on February 21, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
Get rid of the league, keep the provincials and create a championship that would guarantee every county a minimum of 6 games on a Champions League format.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 06:37:25 PM
When or how was it decided that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world?
Sounds like the same school of thought that declares that fans of the 26 Cos soccer team are "the best fans in the world" ::)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 21, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
When or how was it decided that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world?
Sounds like the same school of thought that declares that fans of the 26 Cos soccer team are "the best fans in the world" ::)

Most amateur sport is a bit shit in fairness.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 21, 2017, 09:07:32 PM
Massive crowds don't go to see our games because of the competition format nor do people volunteer for their club or county for that reason.

Nobody is claiming alternative formats are perfect or that the sport is dying but there are serious weaknesses and the sporting and entertainment worlds have changed massively. There's no point in saying the provincial championships have served us well when they existed primarily when sport was hardly ever on TV until the past 20-30 years.

People can now see dozens of high level soccer games on TV each week or go to European cup rugby games 7 or 8 times a year. That wasn't a reality for most of us growing up yet how many times can Kerry fans (for example) go a watch them play a genuine competitive game against top opposition at home?

We have a daft system and it will hinder us in the future if we don't address it.

If you want entertainment go to Bon Jovi concert. If you think we're gonna compete with international games like soccer or rugby we won't and trying to ape them will only hasten or downfall.

The gaa strength is the amateur status and our connection to the locality. That's why the march towards elitism and professionalism is the greatest threat to our games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 21, 2017, 09:16:38 PM
That's nonsense in fairness. Again you can stick your head in the sand and think 1930's style sport but all elite level sport is a form of entertainment. People often build their weekends around sport events and view it as entertainment and that's a reality we have to accept. We are also in competition in Ireland with every sport that's popular there and kids are not going to differentiate between professional international sports and amateur national ones. 

By the way I don't se how developing a sensible competition structure is aping anyone or how it could possibly hasten our downfall. Sticking with a dysfunctional format that doesn't reflect modern society is definitely going to harm our sport.

I don't see any march to professionalism and I don't see how having a better competition format at the highest level would impact in any negative way on our local connection, which is a strength of course.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 21, 2017, 09:40:18 PM
We are also in competition in Ireland with every sport that's popular there and kids are not going to differentiate between professional international sports and amateur national ones. 

By the way I don't se how developing a sensible competition structure is aping anyone or how it could possibly hasten our downfall. Sticking with a dysfunctional format that doesn't reflect modern society is definitely going to harm our sport.

I don't see any march to professionalism and I don't see how having a better competition format at the highest level would impact in any negative way on our local connection, which is a strength of course.

Yes kids will differentiate between professional and amateur sports. They'll stick to the game their dad played, they'll support the place there from not some city they've never visited in England, they'll want to be the sportsmen they get to see in the flesh not some tanned fcuker on a pixelated screen, they'll stick to the sport that happens a mile down the road not in anfield, goodison, limerick, Dublin, Galway or Belfast, they'll stick to the sport where the stars train on their local pitch, or where the stars are their teachers or work with their dads or take them for u-12 training, they'll stick with the sport that lets them in for a tenner not one that charges 70euro a head for a World Cup qualifying match.

You see amateursism is what dictates all that is special and unique about the gaa. Without it we're nothing more than rugby league.

How does our format not reflect modern society? What the f**k does that even mean? Give me an proper reason for changing the game like its a shorter season or players will be more sure  of the structure not such convoluted high hat bullshit.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 09:50:17 PM
Tipperary voted to support the proposals tonight, despite a strong statement from Liam Kearns against the motion.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 21, 2017, 09:53:43 PM
And your wrong that everything needs to be entertaining. I didn't start supporting Tyrone or trillick as a kid because we were "entertaining". We were shite and played shite but it was our shite and I loved that. You've fallen into the Peter Mckenna trap that thinks the gaa is a product. Something to be bought and sold and glammed up to charge a consumer for. I don't need u2 playing at half time of the ai final or cheerleaders before throw-in for me to want to watch it and it's worth f**k all more if they bother to do that.

I don't need change for changes sake. I don't need a super 8 or 40,000 people at a interprovincial final. I don't need heated seats, hotdogs or overpriced pints of carlsberg. By all means change the game to accommodate club players or stamp down on cynicism or eradicate burnout.

But don't change the game to create "interest" or "entertainment" or increase gate revenue. People who turn up to gaa matches for entertainment should be refused entry and sent to the cinema.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 10:09:42 PM
Jases Trillick them must be strong tablets yer on!!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 21, 2017, 10:15:30 PM
Get rid of the league, keep the provincials and create a championship that would guarantee every county a minimum of 6 games on a Champions League format.

Cue the ability to lose a few games and win the All Ireland debate.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 21, 2017, 10:17:04 PM
I (personally, yes... me, everyone please look at me) did solve almost all the issues described in this thread, in a proposal a couple of years ago.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.msg1475581


People of course found a couple of new issues (such as when Tyrone endure both a dreadful league and provincial championship, their fans still expect them to be awarded a place in the last 16, plus some people expect the progress of weaker teams to be stymied, even though they'd be getting just as many games... and the majority of the them in an extremely competitive environment), but as I say, most of this thread's bugbears are put to bed.

Best thought out situation I've seen yet.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 21, 2017, 10:19:50 PM
And your wrong that everything needs to be entertaining. I didn't start supporting Tyrone or trillick as a kid because we were "entertaining". We were shite and played shite but it was our shite and I loved that. You've fallen into the Peter Mckenna trap that thinks the gaa is a product. Something to be bought and sold and glammed up to charge a consumer for. I don't need u2 playing at half time of the ai final or cheerleaders before throw-in for me to want to watch it and it's worth f**k all more if they bother to do that.

I don't need change for changes sake. I don't need a super 8 or 40,000 people at a interprovincial final. I don't need heated seats, hotdogs or overpriced pints of carlsberg. By all means change the game to accommodate club players or stamp down on cynicism or eradicate burnout.

But don't change the game to create "interest" or "entertainment" or increase gate revenue. People who turn up to gaa matches for entertainment should be refused entry and sent to the cinema.

Good man. That's the greatest load of bollocks I've read in a long time. Do you still go to matches by horse and trap, do you abuse fellas for drinking a latte from Starbucks when walking to the match rather than a flask of milky tae and a hang sandwich? Do you moan to your mates about the amount of women at the match with their fancy sunglasses or the Tyrone supporters that weren't at some poxy McKenna cup game in the arse end of January??

To say that kids will play their Dads game and won't be influenced by TV sports stars is so far from reality that I wonder if there's any hope of having a reasonable conversation about this with you. Christ almighty Ger Egan and Jimmy Barry Murphy's sons play professional soccer and they are two of the GAA's biggest icons, Seanie O'Leary's son plays rugby, Mick Galway jacked in IC football for rugby, Darren Sweetman jacked in IC hurling for Munster rugby and there's loads more. Ask the majority of Irish kids what they want to be when they grow up and it will be a professional soccer player. We have great games and a lot going for us but it serves nobody to ignore the reality of the competition we face.

By the way, I've often spoken about the benefits of changing our structures so this certainly isn't about change for change's sake it's about have a better structured more vibrant, interesting IC season that will allow clubs more certainty about when they are playing too. The current system doesn't do that so why anyone would want to keep it is beyond me.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 12:32:50 AM
Judging by the way your rhyming off players who left gaa for rugby or soccer it's obvious your pre-occupied by both of them. I'll leave you to dream up a "format  that reflects modern society", whatever the fcuk that's supposed to mean. More than likely it's one with group stages, sin bins, bigger goals and a rule preventing anyone from handling the ball bur the goalie.

The facts will be though in 10 years Leitrim will still be shite and getting hammered, there still be an elite set of teams, clubs will still be at loggerheads with the counties and we'll have another plethora of experts fit to fix all the ills of the world with things like seeding and 5 dedicated matches a year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 22, 2017, 12:34:41 AM
Don't worry Zulu. Dublin will still win the AI no matter what the format is.

Duffy distracting people with an argument over format when the real one is season length and funding. The GAA at its most typical.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 01:04:34 AM
There was a lad here who posted the 7 or 8 current problems with the championship a year or two ago in one of those threads. If someone remembers it and could dig it up it where all debate on this issue should eminate from. Most of the changes suggested address only one problem of the current system and create 2-3 more.

Wobblers is a sound suggestion but even it has its flaws, however the positives far outweigh the negatives. The problem is that a radical solution such as his is needed to address the current problems. The gaa democratic structure however is completely unable to pass such radical ideas as congress is so wide and such broad consensus is needed that only small piece meal changes can be made. This means some round robin/ champions league shite will be foisted on us and address simply no issues apart from the one that it's been a few months since we did something reckless.

Short of some benevolent dictator seizing gaa hq in the morning I hold out no hope for reasonable well-thought changes coming from Gaa congress hence I am opposed to any changes they may make or dream up. A champions league group here or a round Robin there achieve f**k all really and stand out as change for changes sake.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Avondhu star on February 22, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
And your wrong that everything needs to be entertaining. I didn't start supporting Tyrone or trillick as a kid because we were "entertaining". We were shite and played shite but it was our shite and I loved that. You've fallen into the Peter Mckenna trap that thinks the gaa is a product. Something to be bought and sold and glammed up to charge a consumer for. I don't need u2 playing at half time of the ai final or cheerleaders before throw-in for me to want to watch it and it's worth f**k all more if they bother to do that.

I don't need change for changes sake. I don't need a super 8 or 40,000 people at a interprovincial final. I don't need heated seats, hotdogs or overpriced pints of carlsberg. By all means change the game to accommodate club players or stamp down on cynicism or eradicate burnout.

But don't change the game to create "interest" or "entertainment" or increase gate revenue. People who turn up to gaa matches for entertainment should be refused entry and sent to the cinema.

Good man. That's the greatest load of bollocks I've read in a long time. Do you still go to matches by horse and trap, do you abuse fellas for drinking a latte from Starbucks when walking to the match rather than a flask of milky tae and a hang sandwich? Do you moan to your mates about the amount of women at the match with their fancy sunglasses or the Tyrone supporters that weren't at some poxy McKenna cup game in the arse end of January??

To say that kids will play their Dads game and won't be influenced by TV sports stars is so far from reality that I wonder if there's any hope of having a reasonable conversation about this with you. Christ almighty Ger Egan and Jimmy Barry Murphy's sons play professional soccer and they are two of the GAA's biggest icons, Seanie O'Leary's son plays rugby, Mick Galway jacked in IC football for rugby, Darren Sweetman jacked in IC hurling for Munster rugby and there's loads more. Ask the majority of Irish kids what they want to be when they grow up and it will be a professional soccer player. We have great games and a lot going for us but it serves nobody to ignore the reality of the competition we face.

By the way, I've often spoken about the benefits of changing our structures so this certainly isn't about change for change's sake it's about have a better structured more vibrant, interesting IC season that will allow clubs more certainty about when they are playing too. The current system doesn't do that so why anyone would want to keep it is beyond me.

Whos Ger Egan and Darren Sweetman?
Maybe you mean John Egan and Darren Sweetnam.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on February 22, 2017, 09:32:40 AM
you got to love the written on the back of a fag box solutions to the championship format , these pages show the exact problem. we have 4 or six 'Solutions' to the problem
and We cant' even agree what the problem is . find a joint solution to cure all theses ills if you can
a) too much intercounty football
b) too little  intercounty football
c) burnout and 'abuse of player'
d) players not getting enough games
e) Clubs being pushed around by county boards/ management,fixture schedule
f) counties out of the championship in June still running club championship in October due to some minor/u21 involvement?
g) too much time wasted on provincial games
h) at least with provincial games 4 counties get to win something
one of my own
i) the curse of hurling the drawing up of fixture is always reliant of making room for hurling in some counties halving the number if Sunday's available
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 22, 2017, 09:53:06 AM
And your wrong that everything needs to be entertaining. I didn't start supporting Tyrone or trillick as a kid because we were "entertaining". We were shite and played shite but it was our shite and I loved that. You've fallen into the Peter Mckenna trap that thinks the gaa is a product. Something to be bought and sold and glammed up to charge a consumer for. I don't need u2 playing at half time of the ai final or cheerleaders before throw-in for me to want to watch it and it's worth f**k all more if they bother to do that.

I don't need change for changes sake. I don't need a super 8 or 40,000 people at a interprovincial final. I don't need heated seats, hotdogs or overpriced pints of carlsberg. By all means change the game to accommodate club players or stamp down on cynicism or eradicate burnout.

But don't change the game to create "interest" or "entertainment" or increase gate revenue. People who turn up to gaa matches for entertainment should be refused entry and sent to the cinema.

Good man. That's the greatest load of bollocks I've read in a long time. Do you still go to matches by horse and trap, do you abuse fellas for drinking a latte from Starbucks when walking to the match rather than a flask of milky tae and a hang sandwich? Do you moan to your mates about the amount of women at the match with their fancy sunglasses or the Tyrone supporters that weren't at some poxy McKenna cup game in the arse end of January??

To say that kids will play their Dads game and won't be influenced by TV sports stars is so far from reality that I wonder if there's any hope of having a reasonable conversation about this with you. Christ almighty Ger Egan and Jimmy Barry Murphy's sons play professional soccer and they are two of the GAA's biggest icons, Seanie O'Leary's son plays rugby, Mick Galway jacked in IC football for rugby, Darren Sweetman jacked in IC hurling for Munster rugby and there's loads more. Ask the majority of Irish kids what they want to be when they grow up and it will be a professional soccer player. We have great games and a lot going for us but it serves nobody to ignore the reality of the competition we face.

By the way, I've often spoken about the benefits of changing our structures so this certainly isn't about change for change's sake it's about have a better structured more vibrant, interesting IC season that will allow clubs more certainty about when they are playing too. The current system doesn't do that so why anyone would want to keep it is beyond me.

Whos Ger Egan and Darren Sweetman?
Maybe you mean John Egan and Darren Sweetnam.

Midfielder for Westmeath, didn't know he had a young lad  :P
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 22, 2017, 09:56:10 AM
Tipperary voted to support the proposals tonight, despite a strong statement from Liam Kearns against the motion.

Saw that, Duffy's trip to Tipp to influence the hurling crowd was worth it in the end. Mayo and Kerry going to support the stupidly named Super 8s too. Never thought I'd say it but fair play to Cork, they are voting against it. Only thing the Super 8s has going for it IMO is that the GPA are supposed to be coming out against it. Maybe there is some merit in it there somewhere so.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: tippabu on February 22, 2017, 10:43:09 AM
Tipperary voted to support the proposals tonight, despite a strong statement from Liam Kearns against the motion.

Saw that, Duffy's trip to Tipp to influence the hurling crowd was worth it in the end. Mayo and Kerry going to support the stupidly named Super 8s too. Never thought I'd say it but fair play to Cork, they are voting against it. Only thing the Super 8s has going for it IMO is that the GPA are supposed to be coming out against it. Maybe there is some merit in it there somewhere so.

Tipp football bored,  management, players all completely against it, no surprise it was voted through....would have had better chance if we went for it and said it would be beneficial to tipp football almost certainly would've been voted no here then
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2017, 10:53:42 AM
The GAA's concerted campaign drive seems to bearing fruit. Offer a few extra quid into the coffers of cash strapped county boards and it is amazing how the loyalty of county delegates can be swayed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 22, 2017, 11:27:07 AM
An illustrious career in FF awaits Duffy if he ever jacks in the DG job.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 22, 2017, 11:40:42 AM
Don't worry Zulu. Dublin will still win the AI no matter what the format is.

Duffy distracting people with an argument over format when the real one is season length and funding. The GAA at its most typical.
Does his proposal not shorten the season?
you got to love the written on the back of a fag box solutions to the championship format , these pages show the exact problem. we have 4 or six 'Solutions' to the problem
and We cant' even agree what the problem is . find a joint solution to cure all theses ills if you can
a) too much intercounty football
b) too little  intercounty football
c) burnout and 'abuse of player'
d) players not getting enough games
e) Clubs being pushed around by county boards/ management,fixture schedule
f) counties out of the championship in June still running club championship in October due to some minor/u21 involvement?
g) too much time wasted on provincial games
h) at least with provincial games 4 counties get to win something
one of my own
i) the curse of hurling the drawing up of fixture is always reliant of making room for hurling in some counties halving the number if Sunday's available

Nicely summarised.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Maroon Manc on February 22, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Get rid of the league, keep the provincials and create a championship that would guarantee every county a minimum of 6 games on a Champions League format.

Cue the ability to lose a few games and win the All Ireland debate.

It would but we've been here before when the structure was changed in 2001. Its not possible to keep the provincials and expand the championship for everyone without getting rid of the league.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: twohands!!! on February 22, 2017, 11:55:29 AM
Tipperary voted to support the proposals tonight, despite a strong statement from Liam Kearns against the motion.

Saw that, Duffy's trip to Tipp to influence the hurling crowd was worth it in the end. Mayo and Kerry going to support the stupidly named Super 8s too. Never thought I'd say it but fair play to Cork, they are voting against it. Only thing the Super 8s has going for it IMO is that the GPA are supposed to be coming out against it. Maybe there is some merit in it there somewhere so.

Cork voting against it shows how much control the hurling side of the house have there. The fact that Cork voted against it despite the fact that it would have more than likely meant  more games (cash ) for the over budget new stadium says a world.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 22, 2017, 12:36:26 PM
Judging by the way your rhyming off players who left gaa for rugby or soccer it's obvious your pre-occupied by both of them. I'll leave you to dream up a "format  that reflects modern society", whatever the fcuk that's supposed to mean. More than likely it's one with group stages, sin bins, bigger goals and a rule preventing anyone from handling the ball bur the goalie.

The facts will be though in 10 years Leitrim will still be shite and getting hammered, there still be an elite set of teams, clubs will still be at loggerheads with the counties and we'll have another plethora of experts fit to fix all the ills of the world with things like seeding and 5 dedicated matches a year.

Is having an interest in other sports a bad thing or anti-GAA? As it happens I have hardly any interest in either sport but that's neither here nor there. I've laid out what I'd like to see and while it isn't perfect and sacrifices some things that others wouldn't it solves many of the issues we have at both club and county level.

You're right, some teams will always struggle (same in every sport) and as long as there isn't total separation between club and county there will still be issues. However, that doesn't mean we can't improve the situation and compete and develop in the modern sports world. You know the one with rural depopulation, longer working hours, less stay at home mothers, massively increased exposure to TV/online sport, increasing obesity and drop out of sport etc. Alternatively we could all try to live in your Darby O'Gill-esque world where Mammies see off their sons from the house front door as they skip down the road with their Dad, gear bags in hand. Maybe saluting a friendly farmer as he passes by on his tractor before arriving at the pitch where the whole village have turned out to support the U8's in their league game.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2017, 02:18:47 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: screenexile on February 22, 2017, 02:35:42 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/allireland-in-huge-shakeup-35471157.html
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dubhaltach on February 22, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 22, 2017, 05:55:32 PM
I cannot see the smaller counties voting for this, nor the stronger hurling counties

and with Cork voting no, does it have much of a chance getting the % needed?
I hope not
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 22, 2017, 05:59:15 PM
Kildare will be for it. The vote was tied and the chairman gave the casting vote in favour.

I hope it doesn't get the 2/3s needed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: twohands!!! on February 22, 2017, 06:06:19 PM
Breakdown

For
Kerry
Tipperary
Mayo
Kildare

Against
Cork
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:51 PM
Apparently, we're voting in favour of it as well.
We've been promised a box of bulbs for the floodlights in Navan.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrdeeds on February 22, 2017, 08:50:24 PM
Would it not make more sense to change the majority needed to 50% plus one rather than a two thirds first anf then any new proposals can be passed more easily.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 22, 2017, 09:03:30 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.
I'd like to know the answer to this question to all those opposed.

What I mean is, regardless of what anyone thinks the ideal solution is, do you think that the current system is better or worse than the new proposal?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: thewobbler on February 22, 2017, 09:37:16 PM
Would it not make more sense to change the majority needed to 50% plus one rather than a two thirds first anf then any new proposals can be passed more easily.

This is the exact reason why it's in place.

Think about this. If a motion is passed with 50.01% of the vote, then we can fully expect a counter motion the following season and two small brown envelopes is all that's required to see it through.

Helps nobody. Plus there would be dozens more motions every year as they'd have a much higher chance of getting through. The tinkermen would delights while our hands suffer.

When a motion is passed with a 2/3rds majority it will almost certainly have time to measure its impact.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: twohands!!! on February 22, 2017, 09:54:22 PM
Breakdown what from I've seen so far (feel free to add - I say there are probably a lot of county boards taking votes this week)

For
Kerry
Tipperary
Mayo
Kildare
Meath

Against
Cork
GPA
CPA
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 10:01:57 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.
I'd like to know the answer to this question to all those opposed.

What I mean is, regardless of what anyone thinks the ideal solution is, do you think that the current system is better or worse than the new proposal?

It's worse. It creates extra games for 8 counties, locking up county players for a greater period of the summer. It allows the stronger teams to have a couple of shit days out and still win the All Ireland. It allows the Division 1 elite to play more against top sides, become richer and become stronger.

It's one and only positive is that it increases the gaa coffers and will produce and favour more lucrative TV deals. It's the championship structure that Rupert murdoch would dream up.

And I'm not just a dour negative b**tard. I'll support intelligent change such as wobblers, but this new proposal is an abberation.

Why are you in favour of it?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2017, 10:29:28 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.

Major objection is the so called super 8 element. The elite will play more top level games, gain more exposure and these counties will veer closer to semi-pro status. A Diluted league structure in the middle of the championship will do nothing for excitement and the possibility of shock results will become non existent. It also has the potential to create effective dead rubbers in mid summer and people staying away from attending the matches since they know there will always be another day out. There is absolutely no need for a super 8 structure other than for commercial reasons.

The abolition of replays I have no issue with and moving the season forward I'd be in favour of as well, even if I'd prefer the championship to be completed even earlier and run a club series that is properly promoted on tv between August-December.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: dec on February 22, 2017, 10:38:53 PM
How is the abolition of replays going to happen?
Just keep playing periods of extra time until one team wins?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2017, 11:01:16 PM
Philip Jordan talking a lot of sense on the proposals for a Tyrone man!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0222/854561-philip-jordan-gaa-change-needs-to-go-further/
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2017, 11:47:12 PM
Jordan is definitely one of the more sharper observers.

I personally don't see whats to gain from the Super 8 bar a few extra ££ and in all likelyhood it is a further sop to Sky. What is the point of it????
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dubhaltach on February 23, 2017, 12:57:07 AM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.

Major objection is the so called super 8 element. The elite will play more top level games, gain more exposure and these counties will veer closer to semi-pro status. A Diluted league structure in the middle of the championship will do nothing for excitement and the possibility of shock results will become non existent. It also has the potential to create effective dead rubbers in mid summer and people staying away from attending the matches since they know there will always be another day out. There is absolutely no need for a super 8 structure other than for commercial reasons.

The abolition of replays I have no issue with and moving the season forward I'd be in favour of as well, even if I'd prefer the championship to be completed even earlier and run a club series that is properly promoted on tv between August-December.

23 counties have made the all-Ireland quarter finals in the last 15 years so it's unlikely to be the same elite 8, year in year out. The majority of counties could have a realistic chance of making it that far. At present, 4 counties have realistic ambitions of winning the all Ireland. I don't think that any structural change to the championship is going to change that though.

The main driving force behind the super 8s is undoubtedly commercial reasons. But at the same time, as a supporter, the prospect of more games between the top teams at the height of summer is not something I'd have a problem with. At present, they usually only meet each other at this time of year when the weather is shite. The fact that the 2 provincial champions play each other first at the group stages should also reduce the possibility of dead rubber matches.

 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2017, 09:19:42 AM
Sligo and Leitrim voting for the proposal too.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 09:54:30 AM
Can original poster or admin stick up a poll to see what the gaaboard opinion is? Can add us to twohands list then.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on February 23, 2017, 10:14:13 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above

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Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 23, 2017, 10:31:37 AM
Sligo and Leitrim voting for the proposal too.
Of course we would, we'd never disobey our masters.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dire Ear on February 23, 2017, 10:45:37 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above

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Kerry hoors...16 times in 15 years   !!! ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 11:10:02 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above

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Kerry hoors...16 times in 15 years   !!! ;)

16 years, 2001 - 2016. That's some going in fairness, 100% record, handy province or not.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on February 23, 2017, 11:15:44 AM
What the graph illustrates is that there are already superpowers in GAA. The only county in Leinster that may make the super 8 is Dublin. How are the rest of the counties ever going to compete with Dublin? It is like asking Wycombe Wanderers to go toe to toe with Chelsea..........instead of proposals like this the GAA should be coming up with ideas to make the weaker counties (counties like Meath Down Cork Galway Armagh Cavan Roscommon and others) who have been traditionally competitive in a position where they can catch up with the top 4. That is the only way they are going to have a great championship in the future. And to think that Cavan and Roscommon are in Division One but are still so far off All Ireland contention just makes this argument stronger!
How do you do it?
Level up the financial resources each county team can spend.
Increase the number of GAA paid coaches in weaker counties
Improve training facilities in weaker counties
Limit the amount of training county teams do.
Have a fixture schedule that helps the club game in every county so that players in weaker counties dont choose club over county as they wont lose out playing with their club

The more counties who can be competitive the better the provincial and All Ireland series will be and the money will roll in from all around the country. If it is limited to 8 counties each year then the financial spread will be much less!



Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on February 23, 2017, 11:17:16 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........
why 15 years? would 5 not be more relevant as that s reflects what's happening now .
without seeding any getting to the last 8 at present is not a sign of quality more of the draw you had to get there  .

it seems a lot of people idea of reform is to allow weak teams get as far as possible in the Championship and them try and catch out one of the bigger team instead of  a fair competition to find the best 16 ,8, 4, 2 teams to compete for best team  that will win the  all-Ireland final (in this normally happens any way )
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on February 23, 2017, 11:19:36 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Kerry hoors...16 times in 15 years   !!! ;)

16 years, 2001 - 2016. That's some going in fairness, 100% record, handy province or not.
ared to believe Downs record is so bad considering they have won an allireland in that time. also shows current form is not a fluke
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on February 23, 2017, 11:46:58 AM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever!

How do you come to that conclusion Trap? My understanding is that it would be the same format up to the quarterfinal stage and so the last 3 years showed a good spread of new teams making it through to the last 8 and surely this would continue.

Last year Tipperary and Clare were the surprise packages who joined Donegal and Mayo from the qualifiers route
In 2015 Fermanagh and Kildare were the two surprises joining Donegal and Tyrone
In 2014 the 4 qualifiers were Cork, Galway, Armagh and Monaghan

I think the proposal is trying to do a few things and depending on where you are from and what you want either for your county to try to win Sam, try to get more club games during the summer etc etc we will ALL be able to pick wholes in it and find fault with it.
I think one of the things they are TRYING to do is put more date structure on the matches so they will be able to say exactly what dates the matches will be on and so clubs can work around those dates better with their fixture list.

I think moving the AI final 2 weeks further forward was like a token gesture to the clubs to keep them sweet and not push for more radical changes to the structure of the intercounty season.

People here the phrase Elite 8 and they automatically jump to the conclusion it's the 8 richest or biggest counties breaking away but that's not true. Donegal showed a few years ago that it is possible to come from nowhere and get your house in order and become one of the big boys. Yes it requires hard work, fund raising and sacrifice but they went from being the whipping boys in Ulster to being the last team to beat the Dubs and are now a real force in Ulster.

Personally I can't decide whether the proposal is good or not. I suppose I would like to see more games between the big teams rather than seeing Kerry or the Dubs getting to AI semifinals having mainly played teams from Div2 or below. I think it's crazy that they have a seeded draw in Munster where last years finalists get a bye to the semifinals whereas in Ulster Tyrone, Monaghan or Donegal could still be knocked out in a preliminary round in May.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: magpie seanie on February 23, 2017, 11:54:32 AM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 23, 2017, 12:12:45 PM
I'm completely against this idea without reform of the leagues and provincial championships.
The round robin section should be first!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dubhaltach on February 23, 2017, 12:18:40 PM
What the graph illustrates is that there are already superpowers in GAA. The only county in Leinster that may make the super 8 is Dublin. How are the rest of the counties ever going to compete with Dublin? It is like asking Wycombe Wanderers to go toe to toe with Chelsea..........instead of proposals like this the GAA should be coming up with ideas to make the weaker counties (counties like Meath Down Cork Galway Armagh Cavan Roscommon and others) who have been traditionally competitive in a position where they can catch up with the top 4. That is the only way they are going to have a great championship in the future. And to think that Cavan and Roscommon are in Division One but are still so far off All Ireland contention just makes this argument stronger!
How do you do it?
Level up the financial resources each county team can spend.
Increase the number of GAA paid coaches in weaker counties
Improve training facilities in weaker counties
Limit the amount of training county teams do.

Have a fixture schedule that helps the club game in every county so that players in weaker counties dont choose club over county as they wont lose out playing with their club

The more counties who can be competitive the better the provincial and All Ireland series will be and the money will roll in from all around the country. If it is limited to 8 counties each year then the financial spread will be much less!

I would agree with you on most of those points. But it's championship format proposals that are being voted on here. As I've said previously, no championship format is going to give the weaker counties a chance of beating Dublin. Most GAA people would like to see an evening of the playing field, but IMO, that can only be addressed through motions that deal with finance. One example would be the idea that all sponsorship money is put into one pot and then divided equally to each county.

The graph also shows us that of the 5 counties that have made the last 8 once, 4 of them have made it there in the last 6 years. The fifth county, Wexford, made it there in 2008. Hardly an argument supporting the idea that 8 elite counties will play each other year in, year out.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 12:25:51 PM
I don't think it's going to be any harder for a 'weaker' county to make the ''Super 8", but it's sure as hell going to be hard for them to get to a semi final. Tipp last year is probably the last time anyone outside of Division 1 makes an All Ireland semi final for a long time.

A lot of people would be quite happy with that. It's subjective. And I suppose there is the argument that the 4 best teams, rather than a team that got hot and got a bit of luck in a draw, should be in a semi final.

Imagine if Lincoln had to play Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea in a round robin at this stage, rather than just hope for a lucky day against Arsenal. Good night Luke. No place for dreams anymore :)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 12:32:33 PM
If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 12:38:54 PM
If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: J70 on February 23, 2017, 12:43:00 PM
Philip Jordan talking a lot of sense on the proposals for a Tyrone man!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0222/854561-philip-jordan-gaa-change-needs-to-go-further/

Excellent piece.

Although its not exactly rocket science to come up with some kind of system which addresses the club issue. Which further illustrates the extent of the disconnect.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..
I'd say it's the main factor to be honest.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 12:48:31 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 23, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Is that a factor in doing this? Increased gates to get more money? I thought it was an attempt to have more high profile games between top teams, and less dross like Tipperary and Clare..

As the saying goes, when they say it's not about the money, it's about the money.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: shark on February 23, 2017, 01:02:11 PM
If this proposal was in use last year would the groups have been -
Galway Kerry Westmeath and Rhubarbia
Dublin Tyrone Clare and Tipp.

Last year's Qtr  Finals drew 110,000.
Wonder how many would 12 games in the above 2 groups attract?

Donegal rather than Westmeath. Westmeath lost to Mayo in last qualifier round.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 23, 2017, 01:31:30 PM
23 counties made the last 8 in the last 15 years..........if this goes through it will be more or less be the same 8 counties in the last 8 for......well forever! There may be an odd shock in who gets into the last 8 but think about it like this......the counties who make the last 8 in the first year will have a considerable advantage over those that don't in terms of finance, exposure and experience gained, ease of player buy in the following year............therefore widening the gap. The GAA should be careful about what they wish for............and that is coming from a Tyrone man who are expected to be one of the top 8...........

Graph of the above
CHART
Kerry hoors...16 times in 15 years   !!! ;)

16 years, 2001 - 2016. That's some going in fairness, 100% record, handy province or not.
ared to believe Downs record is so bad considering they have won an allireland in that time. also shows current form is not a fluke

Need to go back another few years for that unfortunately. Last one was in 1994.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Hound on February 23, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
I'm very much against round robin in the GAA championship as it'll inevitably lead to dead rubbers. Will anyone go to games where both teams are already through or both are already out? Or when you have one team with nothing to play for and thus put out a changed team which makes it easy for their opponents to grab the win they need?

But as a 3 year experiment, I'd be prepared to give it a go. I think it is better at the QF stage than at an earlier stage when you'd have too many one sided games.

There will be huge excitement, and it will be an achievement in itself to make the Super 8. It won't negatively impact anyone who doesnt make it anymore than the current system. Personally I don't think it would widen the gap between the top 8 and the rest. More likely to incentivise others to make it. For many counties, once they are out of the provinical, heads go down, players head off, because there's nothing realistic to aim for if they haven't made their provincial final. Now almost every county will think, that with a bit of luck and a kind draw, we could just sneak into the Super8 (the 8-12 that think they have no chance, should be in the B championship - but they don't want that).

So I hope they give it the 3 year trial.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 23, 2017, 02:06:46 PM
I think there is growing momentum against these proposals and I'd still be hopeful that they won't get through particularly in light of the statements from both players bodies in recent days.

Is this voted for by secret ballot?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 23, 2017, 02:09:35 PM
It's looking like this super 8 championship format will become reality with some counties that shouldn't be voting for it suddenly voting in favour of it. Honestly I have seen much better formats outlined on here by chaps at 2am in the morning probably filled with alcohol than the super 8 format. If you ask me it's all a little fishy how this motion will get passed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Avondhu star on February 23, 2017, 02:36:58 PM
It's looking like this super 8 championship format will become reality with some counties that shouldn't be voting for it suddenly voting in favour of it. Honestly I have seen much better formats outlined on here by chaps at 2am in the morning probably filled with alcohol than the super 8 format. If you ask me it's all a little fishy how this motion will get passed.

Just check out who is buying the correct amount drink for the delegates before the vote
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.
I'd like to know the answer to this question to all those opposed.

What I mean is, regardless of what anyone thinks the ideal solution is, do you think that the current system is better or worse than the new proposal?

It's worse. It creates extra games for 8 counties, locking up county players for a greater period of the summer. It allows the stronger teams to have a couple of shit days out and still win the All Ireland. It allows the Division 1 elite to play more against top sides, become richer and become stronger.

It's one and only positive is that it increases the gaa coffers and will produce and favour more lucrative TV deals. It's the championship structure that Rupert murdoch would dream up.

And I'm not just a dour negative b**tard. I'll support intelligent change such as wobblers, but this new proposal is an abberation.

Why are you in favour of it?
I'll deal with your issues with it first if that's ok.

Eight counties will have their county players locked up for longer than currently is the situation. If ever there was a negative way of spinning the proposal it's this. The round prior to the Super 8/Quarter Finals would be played on the weekend of 2 July in 2016 under the new proposal. Under the old format this round was played two and three weeks later. If you look at the table in proposal it shows that all teams (excluding the top 8 for the minute) leave the championship earlier under the new format. So instead of focusing on 8 teams being in it too long, why not look at the other 24 having their players available to clubs earlier?

On to the last eight teams. As it stands, the two AI finalists will keep their players from their clubs up to the third Sunday in September. Under the new proposal, the final will be played three weeks earlier. So that's two more counties  you can to the 24 above. We're getting pretty thin on the ground with this point as we're left with six counties but I'll finish it out. The two losing semi-finalists under the current proposal left the championship on the 21st and 28th of August. With the new one, they'd be free two weeks earlier. So you're left with the four teams that don't get past the Super 8 stage; two of these would exit the same weekend and two would exit a week earlier.

So I think, unless I made a mistake, that your first point is factually incorrect. One of the reasons I'm in favour of the proposal is because, as you can now see, almost every county gets their players for club football earlier.

It does allow the top teams an extra slip-up, that's fair enough if that's a problem for you. I'll accept that.

But again, why not point out that it allows the likes of Tipp or Clare to play three games against the elite rather than telling us that the Division 1 teams get to play each other? There are countless posts about how difficult it will be to reach an AISF as if there was a trophy for it. Is it not as good to reach an AIQF stage and get three top games, including one at home and ride the wave that that would bring?

Comments (not yours) also about how different the last eight teams will be even though it's the exact same route to the last eight. Are people clear on the proposal because I'm all for opinion but there's just some glaring inaccuracies out there.

Philip Jordan's piece is being rightly applauded but it's largely irrelevant in 2017 as nothing  he says has any chance of getting through.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 03:09:49 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Hound on February 23, 2017, 03:16:47 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 04:02:24 PM
I don't follow. If Westmeath made it to the super 8 they could be in a group with Galway (or a similar standard team) as their main rival for the runner up spot so win that one off game and they could still make the semi final.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Hound on February 23, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 04:41:10 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 04:44:05 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html)
Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 04:45:02 PM
Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 04:47:28 PM
Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.
Neither did Mayo v Tipp in Croke Park. Maybe Tipp should pack it in altogether  ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 04:51:30 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html)
Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?

Of course a semi final is a bigger step than a quarter final. Was that a serious question?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 04:53:53 PM
I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.
But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.
That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html)
Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?

Of course a semi final is a bigger step than a quarter final. Was that a serious question?
Is that the question I asked? No is the answer.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 23, 2017, 04:59:25 PM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 23, 2017, 05:00:55 PM
Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.
Neither did Mayo v Tipp in Croke Park. Maybe Tipp should pack it in altogether  ;)

You get the impression a few media people would prefer if all the weaker counties packed it in altogether.

By the way Tipp were fairly competitive v Mayo.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 23, 2017, 05:12:58 PM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 05:15:52 PM
And would have been against Tyrone whether a semi in Croker or a Super8 in Thurles or Omagh.
As an aside will Omagh be big enough for Tyrone home games if this goes ahead or will they have to go to Clones?
Mullingar might not qualify either? ?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 23, 2017, 05:52:48 PM
Is the GAA's aim to make as much money as possible or to develop the sport?

Most of the changes in recent years belie the fact the former is the sad truth.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

Yes, a significant proportion of the extra revenue will be ring fenced for development in lower level counties.

I don't think anyone opposing this has made a reasonable argument for opposing this. It isn't perfect, Paraic Duffy would accept that himself but it's worth trying for 3 years to see if it is an improvement or not. I also don't understand this opposition to the GAA generating money, like it or not it's required to run a major sporting organisation.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2017, 10:09:31 PM
It's a beginning, and anything that alters the current anachronistic and imbalanced All-Ireland structure for the better is welcome with me, however slight that tinkering may be initially. It was never going to be completely overhauled in one Congress-year.

It'll neither be as fantastic as the most enthusiastic proponents would claim, nor as awful as the most scathing detractors would clamour, but it deserves a run out nonetheless. Let's give it a lash, it can't be any worse than the current set-up, regardless of how it unfolds. :)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 23, 2017, 11:03:01 PM
Reading this thread and it's a mirror image of many discussions we've had here about changes where most lads seem to go to the default setting of seeing everything that's not perfect about it and little of what's good about it.

Most people agree the current format is not working and that radical changes would not pass congress so why not give this a chance and see what happens? AZ is correct when he says a Tipp or Westmeath getting to an All Ireland semi final is less likely but you could also have Mayo/Dublin/Tyrone coming to Thurles in the last game where a draw for Tipp could get them to a semi final (or some other scenario). EVERY single suggestion you could come up with will have faults if we maintain the county structure as we have and then want a format that serves Waterford and Dublin equally well. It's  impossible so why not see if something else is an improvement?

By the way won't the extra revenue go towards levelling the financial playing field?
Anything that stops Westmeath getting to an All IReland semi final is fine by me.

Where did you hear that about the extra revenue? are the funds for these games earmarked to go into development outside of the big counties?

Yes, a significant proportion of the extra revenue will be ring fenced for development in lower level counties.

I don't think anyone opposing this has made a reasonable argument for opposing this. It isn't perfect, Paraic Duffy would accept that himself but it's worth trying for 3 years to see if it is an improvement or not. I also don't understand this opposition to the GAA generating money, like it or not it's required to run a major sporting organisation.
I'll believe the ring fencing when I see it

I cannot see how having a round robin series half way through the championship will work.
The champions league tried that a few years ago, then reverted back to the current system.

you will get the same 3/4 teams into the semi finals every year - counties with the largest pick, most resources to finance the team
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 23, 2017, 11:24:00 PM
The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 11:36:34 PM
How many different teams reached the Semis the last 5 years?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 23, 2017, 11:52:42 PM
How many different teams reached the Semis the last 5 years?

Six
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 23, 2017, 11:54:54 PM
The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.
but the same few teams are already winning most titles
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 24, 2017, 12:09:16 AM
They are but are you saying we should come up with a system that hinders the best teams from winning championships?

The best team in Ireland should win the All Ireland and this proposed system doesn't impact on that so what is the problem?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 09:29:23 AM
The ring fencing will definitely happen or do you genuinely think the GAA want one or two teams to win everything?

The league is highlighting that fans want to see the best teams play each other and this format is providing more of that so I expect it will be successful.

Of course the best 3 or 4 teams will make the semi finals each year but that should happen in any system most of the time.

Given what's happened with Dublin and the funding spend in development there, and compared to the investment in other counties, I'm not sure the GAA is overy bothered about competitive balance, if that's what you're asking.

You asked a question somewhere about 'what's wrong with raising money, we need money' and I agree 100%. However, I made a point here a couple of years ago, which is being reinforced with almost every proposal and decision coming out of CP.

I believe we have appointed some very good men, like Peter McKenna and Paraic Duffy, who are good businessmen and are approaching running the GAA as a profit making enterprise. All decisions and proposals from them are from that perspective. Brand identiy. Maximising revenue streams, increasing profit.

And that's a worry for me. We absolutely need good people running the business side, to ensure ADEQUATE finances are raised to support our organisation and it's development, in both Capital ventures and Coaching and Games development. However, there has to be a recognition that the games, and the people playing it, are the most important thing. And ALL decisions should have that fact as the basic sanity check for the decisions. Will this decision help the games, their competitiveness, and the people playing it.

At the moment, I think the first question they ask themselves is "Will this decision be financially lucrative, will it sell more jerseys, or sell more ads for TV companies?".

And when that is the situation, the tail starts wagging the dog, and you have decisions made which are good from a financial standpoint, but the games and players and fans have to adapt or accept the change even if they don't want it.

If they looked at it from the other side, I'm not sure a Super 8 would be the answer, and I'm not sure a few other decisions coming out of Croke Park would be the answer to other issues.

At some point, we have to remember we need ENOUGH money to run and finance the organisation, but we don't always have to be looking for the next chance to maximise revenue and become like a Corporation who bases it's whole culture off the bottom line.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2017, 09:38:15 AM
Like everything in life, business, government etc it's all about getting the right BALANCE.
Isn't it up to Co Boards who are made up of delegates from Clubs Central Council made up of delegates from Counties and the annual Congress to ensure the balance is met between the obvious need for money and the neEdstaston of the games/players etc.?
Obviously a lot of people think the 8s is good for the games.
I think any round Robin in the AI championship should be for the other 24 which would be better for the game but could well be a flop financially.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2017, 09:47:44 AM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

I don't think getting to the Super 8 every year in 10 is going to help in any way in the long term (the same as getting to a SF one year in 10 tbf). The idea behind the qualifiers when they came in was to give the counties who traditionally only got the one championship game each year a second day out. This was laudable but the downside is that if a stronger county got caught out they got a second bite at the cherry. This super 8 proposal purposely sets out to make the strong counties even stronger as the counties who will benefit most from it are those who will make the last 8 year upon year. We already have huge imbalances from coaching to funding to seeded draws to Dublin having the keys to Croke Park and now HQ are trying to put another road block in front of the smaller counties. Westmeath did their bit for the association last night by agreeing to vote against it, hopefully the remaining counties follow suit.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on February 24, 2017, 09:54:55 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 24, 2017, 10:09:27 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
I thought most counties have a round robin in the championship, at the start!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 10:21:15 AM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

I don't think getting to the Super 8 every year in 10 is going to help in any way in the long term (the same as getting to a SF one year in 10 tbf). The idea behind the qualifiers when they came in was to give the counties who traditionally only got the one championship game each year a second day out. This was laudable but the downside is that if a stronger county got caught out they got a second bite at the cherry. This super 8 proposal purposely sets out to make the strong counties even stronger as the counties who will benefit most from it are those who will make the last 8 year upon year. We already have huge imbalances from coaching to funding to seeded draws to Dublin having the keys to Croke Park and now HQ are trying to put another road block in front of the smaller counties. Westmeath did their bit for the association last night by agreeing to vote against it, hopefully the remaining counties follow suit.
I'm not sure why you're talking about one year in ten. If Westmeath got to the last eight in 2018 and had a game in Cusack Park against Mayo/Tyrone/Dublin/Kerry, a game against, say, Galway in Croke Park and a game against say Donegal in Breffni Park, do you not think that would promote the game in the county just as much as getting to a semi-final? Who knows how the county would build on that in the coming years. My point is that the Super 8 proposal doesn't seem to be a hugely, if at all, inferior place to be than an AISF.

You talk about the Super 8 making the stronger teams stronger. How? Do you mean by letting them have a potentially third chance? This is another example of where everyone has different complaints about the current system. One of the many areas that Duffy tried to address with this was the complaint that the only teams that didn't get a second chance in the All-Ireland series were the provincial champions. If you read the proposal, you'll see all of the issues that an attempt has been made to address. This is one of them.

Ultimately, on this thread and elsewhere, I think the general view is that those against it are so for factually incorrect reasons or for the reason that it doesn't solve everything.

I believe that's it's not perfect because it's impossible to be so, but that it condenses the season, gives players back to their clubs earlier and should be trialled for three years.

All interested parties can use the intervening period to make suggestions and have discussions for the next exciting episode.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 24, 2017, 10:29:19 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
I thought most counties have a round robin in the championship, at the start!

I really like our system. 16 team senior and intermediate championship.

Round 1  - Open Draw

8 games - 8 losers, 8 winner

Round 2 - Open draw

4 losers v 4 losers

The 4 losers go into relegation play-off semi-finals
The 4 winners go into round 3

4 winners v 4 winners

The 4 winners go into Q/F
The 4 losers go into round 3 to play the "loser" winners, not allowed draw team previously played.

Round 3

4 Loser winners v 4 winner losers

4 teams in to q/f

Q/F onwards straight knock-out. Every game is competitive with meaning. Each team guaranteed 3 championship (inc relegation p/o) 



Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on February 24, 2017, 10:32:11 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
I thought most counties have a round robin in the championship, at the start!

I really like our system. 16 team senior and intermediate championship.

Round 1  - Open Draw

8 games - 8 losers, 8 winner

Round 2 - Open draw

4 losers v 4 losers

The 4 losers go into relegation play-off semi-finals
The 4 winners go into round 3

4 winners v 4 winners

The 4 winners go into Q/F
The 4 losers go into round 3 to play the "loser" winners, not allowed draw team previously played.

Round 3

4 Loser winners v 4 winner losers

4 teams in to q/f

Q/F onwards straight knock-out. Every game is competitive with meaning. Each team guaranteed 3 championship (inc relegation p/o)

It's a great system. Hard to believe there were a few club delegates who wanted it changed not so long ago.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
Like everything in life, business, government etc it's all about getting the right BALANCE.
Isn't it up to Co Boards who are made up of delegates from Clubs Central Council made up of delegates from Counties and the annual Congress to ensure the balance is met between the obvious need for money and the neEdstaston of the games/players etc.?
Obviously a lot of people think the 8s is good for the games.
I think any round Robin in the AI championship should be for the other 24 which would be better for the game but could well be a flop financially.

I agree Rossfan. It's about Balance. I just think it's weighted towards financial considerations more than competitive balance (no pun intended) or the 'good of the game' a lot these days.

I don't think they are trying to hurt the games, of course, but I think they think along the lines of 'this will increase revenue by x% and the clubs/counties can just change this to allow/accomodate it'.

Also, I hope this doesn't need to be said, but I will anyway just in case, I don't believe people on here advocating for changes like this are in any way ignorant of the needs of the game. I know we're all involved and just have different opinions on the best way to do things, but I believe we are all coming at it from the perspective of the games.

It's my opinion that a bit of that has been lost in HQ since they realised they need to be professional about running a business, even if the business itself is an amateur one.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 24, 2017, 10:48:07 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
I thought most counties have a round robin in the championship, at the start!

I really like our system. 16 team senior and intermediate championship.

Round 1  - Open Draw

8 games - 8 losers, 8 winner

Round 2 - Open draw

4 losers v 4 losers

The 4 losers go into relegation play-off semi-finals
The 4 winners go into round 3

4 winners v 4 winners

The 4 winners go into Q/F
The 4 losers go into round 3 to play the "loser" winners, not allowed draw team previously played.

Round 3

4 Loser winners v 4 winner losers

4 teams in to q/f

Q/F onwards straight knock-out. Every game is competitive with meaning. Each team guaranteed 3 championship (inc relegation p/o)

It's a great system. Hard to believe there were a few club delegates who wanted it changed not so long ago.
Sounds a good system all right.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2017, 10:59:35 AM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

I don't think getting to the Super 8 every year in 10 is going to help in any way in the long term (the same as getting to a SF one year in 10 tbf). The idea behind the qualifiers when they came in was to give the counties who traditionally only got the one championship game each year a second day out. This was laudable but the downside is that if a stronger county got caught out they got a second bite at the cherry. This super 8 proposal purposely sets out to make the strong counties even stronger as the counties who will benefit most from it are those who will make the last 8 year upon year. We already have huge imbalances from coaching to funding to seeded draws to Dublin having the keys to Croke Park and now HQ are trying to put another road block in front of the smaller counties. Westmeath did their bit for the association last night by agreeing to vote against it, hopefully the remaining counties follow suit.
I'm not sure why you're talking about one year in ten. If Westmeath got to the last eight in 2018 and had a game in Cusack Park against Mayo/Tyrone/Dublin/Kerry, a game against, say, Galway in Croke Park and a game against say Donegal in Breffni Park, do you not think that would promote the game in the county just as much as getting to a semi-final? Who knows how the county would build on that in the coming years. My point is that the Super 8 proposal doesn't seem to be a hugely, if at all, inferior place to be than an AISF.

You talk about the Super 8 making the stronger teams stronger. How? Do you mean by letting them have a potentially third chance? This is another example of where everyone has different complaints about the current system. One of the many areas that Duffy tried to address with this was the complaint that the only teams that didn't get a second chance in the All-Ireland series were the provincial champions. If you read the proposal, you'll see all of the issues that an attempt has been made to address. This is one of them.

Ultimately, on this thread and elsewhere, I think the general view is that those against it are so for factually incorrect reasons or for the reason that it doesn't solve everything.

I believe that's it's not perfect because it's impossible to be so, but that it condenses the season, gives players back to their clubs earlier and should be trialled for three years.

All interested parties can use the intervening period to make suggestions and have discussions for the next exciting episode.

Because that's how often on average the weaker teams make the last 8, check the graph posted earlier. In your example, no, I don't believe those 3 games would promote the game anywhere near as advancing to a stage of the championship we have never reached before. We'll have to agree to disagree, a SF appearance trumps over 3 games at last 8 level for me.

Super 8 will make the stronger teams stronger as they will have 3 tough games at the highest level each year where they can refine their systems, processes and performances. The provincial champions not getting a second chance is a bit of a red herring. Everyone gets one chance to win their provincial championship. They then get another chance to win the AI. Everyone is in the same boat.

The reason people are against it are not that it doesn't solve everything. The reasons people are against it are:

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2017, 11:04:08 AM
We have 2 groups of 6 at Senior and Inter.
A strong group and a weak group.
Top 2 in strong group go to Semis,  3rd and 4th in strong group and top 2 in weak group play Qtr Finals.
Bottom 2 in strong group relegated to weak group replaced by top 2 in weak group. Bottom 2 in weak group relegation play off.
AZ - I agree that people here proposing different systems are thinking what's best for the games.
I still think the best logical long term solution is Senior/Inter and Junior AIs at Inter County - while keeping the Provincials open to all and having some sort of League early in the year.
However what's the best achievable in the intervening 40 years?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 24, 2017, 11:12:42 AM
Does any of you have a round robin in their championship? How does it work?

Derry tried it about ten years ago, it was hurriedly ditched without fanfare after a couple of years, as it was a complete disaster. It was replaced with a back door, which has now been ditched at Senior level as well, and has gone back to straight knockout. As far as I recollect the same or a similar thing happened in a number of other counties as well. [though i do not have a great memory lol]

I think that it is unfathomable that Duffy should now bring this forward as a solution to any perceived ills existing in the GAA as I just cannot see what the rationale for such a move could be given that this format has been proved not to work

In GAA more people come to watch championship football because it is do or die and the pace and intensity is a step up from league football. This is true at any grade of football, club or county. If you change championship to a league format you will lose all the things that make a championship a championship.

I can see some merit in suggesting rationalizing the draw outside the traditional provincial structures to provide a more level playing field [sorry] or even splitting the championship into Senior and Intermediate, not that i agree that we should do this, but of all the possible solutions this round robin proposal is the stupidest possible outcome.
I thought most counties have a round robin in the championship, at the start!

I really like our system. 16 team senior and intermediate championship.

Round 1  - Open Draw

8 games - 8 losers, 8 winner

Round 2 - Open draw

4 losers v 4 losers

The 4 losers go into relegation play-off semi-finals
The 4 winners go into round 3

4 winners v 4 winners

The 4 winners go into Q/F
The 4 losers go into round 3 to play the "loser" winners, not allowed draw team previously played.

Round 3

4 Loser winners v 4 winner losers

4 teams in to q/f

Q/F onwards straight knock-out. Every game is competitive with meaning. Each team guaranteed 3 championship (inc relegation p/o)
I like it
the first match is really important and each round has an element of knockout to it
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2017, 11:24:04 AM
I like Croí's point about overshadowing the hurley stuff. Sure that could all be played in May and June and get them out of the way :D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on February 24, 2017, 11:50:45 AM
As has been said on here before there seems to be lots of people wanting different things and not everyone can agree what are the main problems to solve.

You can see the different attitudes in Gaels from those who deal with underage teams to the hard working club chairman, to the county manager who will often put his team's needs before those of what's best for the clubs and of course there are those at the top presidential and business levels who might say they want to help the grassroots but often make higher level choices.

The GAA know that Dublin is their golden goose and so it has always been in their interests to get as many matches as possible with the Dubs in Croke Park with a huge crowd. It takes in a great income from match attendance and now also from TV revenue and sponsorship. This new system will ensure an extra game for Dublin against another provincial winner (should Dublin be lucky enough to win Leinster of course) and against a qualifier whereas before it would just have been a quarterfinal against a qualifier.

The biggest loser (at county level) in this new system is definitely the underdog teams like Tipperary last year who might occasionally beat a big team like Cork or Galway but if they are in a group with 2 provincial winners then you would be very surprised if they would come 2nd in the group. As a Tyrone man I think the new system will suit us much better whether we are a provincial winner or a qualifier. Actually the idea of playing the Dubs or Kerry in Omagh/Clones if we were a qualifier would be very exciting.

There seems to be a feeling that once this is voted in that they won't be able to say No to it in 3 years again if people aren't happy with it. For me personally I think it's still too easy for Kerry and Dublin to get to a semifinal compared to Ulster sides. It would be an interesting group if you had Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone and Mayo should Tyrone and Mayo not win their provinces.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 12:30:30 PM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

I don't think getting to the Super 8 every year in 10 is going to help in any way in the long term (the same as getting to a SF one year in 10 tbf). The idea behind the qualifiers when they came in was to give the counties who traditionally only got the one championship game each year a second day out. This was laudable but the downside is that if a stronger county got caught out they got a second bite at the cherry. This super 8 proposal purposely sets out to make the strong counties even stronger as the counties who will benefit most from it are those who will make the last 8 year upon year. We already have huge imbalances from coaching to funding to seeded draws to Dublin having the keys to Croke Park and now HQ are trying to put another road block in front of the smaller counties. Westmeath did their bit for the association last night by agreeing to vote against it, hopefully the remaining counties follow suit.
I'm not sure why you're talking about one year in ten. If Westmeath got to the last eight in 2018 and had a game in Cusack Park against Mayo/Tyrone/Dublin/Kerry, a game against, say, Galway in Croke Park and a game against say Donegal in Breffni Park, do you not think that would promote the game in the county just as much as getting to a semi-final? Who knows how the county would build on that in the coming years. My point is that the Super 8 proposal doesn't seem to be a hugely, if at all, inferior place to be than an AISF.

You talk about the Super 8 making the stronger teams stronger. How? Do you mean by letting them have a potentially third chance? This is another example of where everyone has different complaints about the current system. One of the many areas that Duffy tried to address with this was the complaint that the only teams that didn't get a second chance in the All-Ireland series were the provincial champions. If you read the proposal, you'll see all of the issues that an attempt has been made to address. This is one of them.

Ultimately, on this thread and elsewhere, I think the general view is that those against it are so for factually incorrect reasons or for the reason that it doesn't solve everything.

I believe that's it's not perfect because it's impossible to be so, but that it condenses the season, gives players back to their clubs earlier and should be trialled for three years.

All interested parties can use the intervening period to make suggestions and have discussions for the next exciting episode.

Because that's how often on average the weaker teams make the last 8, check the graph posted earlier. In your example, no, I don't believe those 3 games would promote the game anywhere near as advancing to a stage of the championship we have never reached before. We'll have to agree to disagree, a SF appearance trumps over 3 games at last 8 level for me.

Super 8 will make the stronger teams stronger as they will have 3 tough games at the highest level each year where they can refine their systems, processes and performances. The provincial champions not getting a second chance is a bit of a red herring. Everyone gets one chance to win their provincial championship. They then get another chance to win the AI. Everyone is in the same boat.

The reason people are against it are not that it doesn't solve everything. The reasons people are against it are:

  • It makes the strong stronger
  • The players are against it
  • We are locked into it for the next 3 years
  • The CPA don't get a chance to fix the fixtures (Since no one else will despite their promises)
  • It's designed to make money rather than being for the betterment of the association
  • Hurling will be completely overshadowed while all these Super 8 games are going on
But if you reach the AISF once in ten years is that any use? I don't follow the logic.

I agree we should agree to disagree on the next point.

Would the weaker teams not benefit from playing better teams in a similar way that you say the strong teams will? Again, we hear a lot about how the weaker teams need to be exposed to a better standard. Like I said, the argument are all very conflicting.

The CPA has certainly complicated matters by trying to come to the table so late. I think it's reasonable for them to wait the three years to come up with a better proposal. There's no evidence that hurling will overshadowed. The GPA are against it which is definitely noteworthy, although strange considering the number of elements it's addressed.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I hope some of it goes through and then at least we can see how it goes.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 24, 2017, 01:36:20 PM
It's incredible that a proposal opposed by both players' unions, supporters and pretty much any club that has its own best interests at heart has a massive chance of being passed at congress.

A democracy is something the GAA is very far from.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 24, 2017, 01:42:12 PM
I'm undecided over the super 8s format. I do like the idea of the top teams playing against each other in more important games. I also see the argument over it not helping the club fixtures.

Everyone has to agree its extremely difficult to fix the fixtures issues and no matter what the gaa do won't be perfect. In my opinion the biggest issues based on Tyrone currently are:

1) Too much uncertainty over club fixtures. Players have no idea when the next game is because of dependency on when Tyrone progress. Games are also moved if there is replays etc.
2) Players trying to serve club and county at same time. To me this is leading to even further weeks wasted as county manager trying to protect their players ahead of big games which is understandable as their opposition will no doubt do the same.
3) The inter county championship is too drawn out with too many breaks between games in the provincial series.
4) Their is too many warm up games at county leave (pre season then league) and not enough meaningful big games between the top teams.

I've now come to the conclusion that their should be a total split season for county players. The county season should run from February (pre season January) to end of July (other teams will obviously drop out earlier) and during that period the county players play no club games. The club season should start without them in say April and run away with regular fixtures every week. Personally I think if that's the case your league division shouldn't determine the championship you play in. The fact the league is all before the championship should keep players interested.

From February to the end of July there is 26 weekends so there is plenty of time for decent county competitions. I think they need totally revised based on what is there currently. I'd personally start with the provincials and have groupings in each provincial championship like they currently have in pre season tournaments and your position based on those 3 or 4 games would determine whether you enter the senior, intermediate or junior championship after that. The provincial winners could carry points over to the main championship to give greater incentive to win provincial championship. Once completed there would then be a senior championship with 16 teams and the other two with 8. Each team has 7 games. Then quarter finals for senior (or semi finals for the other two). I'd potentially have a route of allowing the junior/intermediate teams a play off to get back in the main championship so everyone still has chance of All Ireland.

For the clubs they'd have started in April with county players coming in start of August or before and being totally free to concentrate on club activities to end of October. All counties have to be finished up by then except for provincial championships.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 24, 2017, 02:04:16 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 02:22:37 PM
It's incredible that a proposal opposed by both players' unions, supporters and pretty much any club that has its own best interests at heart has a massive chance of being passed at congress.

A democracy is something the GAA is very far from.
Where do you get this from?

The players' unions point is fair enough but supporters and any club that has its own best interests at heart is, in the first instance an unfounded generalisation, and in the second instance your opinion based on what, I'm not sure.

Are all these groups not members of their clubs where they can go and voice their opposition if it is indeed the case?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on February 24, 2017, 03:04:25 PM
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2017, 03:49:38 PM
Is a semi final a bigger step than getting a hiding off Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles in a last 8 round robin game? Is that the question?

If it is I think you know the answer.
My point/question is this. You're making it a major deal, for a county's progress, to make a semi-final because it suits your argument.

What I'm saying is that a county might progress just as much in the long term by playing three of these Super 8 games as they would playing in a semi-final. And please don't start with the black & white argument that getting to a SF is better than getting to a QF. I'm aware of that.

But again, look at how you're wording your question; "getting a hiding" of Mayo. Let me flip it around for you. Would it be more beneficial for Tipp to play three games and get a win, a draw and a narrow defeat than get "a hiding" in the AISF?

I don't think getting to the Super 8 every year in 10 is going to help in any way in the long term (the same as getting to a SF one year in 10 tbf). The idea behind the qualifiers when they came in was to give the counties who traditionally only got the one championship game each year a second day out. This was laudable but the downside is that if a stronger county got caught out they got a second bite at the cherry. This super 8 proposal purposely sets out to make the strong counties even stronger as the counties who will benefit most from it are those who will make the last 8 year upon year. We already have huge imbalances from coaching to funding to seeded draws to Dublin having the keys to Croke Park and now HQ are trying to put another road block in front of the smaller counties. Westmeath did their bit for the association last night by agreeing to vote against it, hopefully the remaining counties follow suit.
I'm not sure why you're talking about one year in ten. If Westmeath got to the last eight in 2018 and had a game in Cusack Park against Mayo/Tyrone/Dublin/Kerry, a game against, say, Galway in Croke Park and a game against say Donegal in Breffni Park, do you not think that would promote the game in the county just as much as getting to a semi-final? Who knows how the county would build on that in the coming years. My point is that the Super 8 proposal doesn't seem to be a hugely, if at all, inferior place to be than an AISF.

You talk about the Super 8 making the stronger teams stronger. How? Do you mean by letting them have a potentially third chance? This is another example of where everyone has different complaints about the current system. One of the many areas that Duffy tried to address with this was the complaint that the only teams that didn't get a second chance in the All-Ireland series were the provincial champions. If you read the proposal, you'll see all of the issues that an attempt has been made to address. This is one of them.

Ultimately, on this thread and elsewhere, I think the general view is that those against it are so for factually incorrect reasons or for the reason that it doesn't solve everything.

I believe that's it's not perfect because it's impossible to be so, but that it condenses the season, gives players back to their clubs earlier and should be trialled for three years.

All interested parties can use the intervening period to make suggestions and have discussions for the next exciting episode.

Because that's how often on average the weaker teams make the last 8, check the graph posted earlier. In your example, no, I don't believe those 3 games would promote the game anywhere near as advancing to a stage of the championship we have never reached before. We'll have to agree to disagree, a SF appearance trumps over 3 games at last 8 level for me.

Super 8 will make the stronger teams stronger as they will have 3 tough games at the highest level each year where they can refine their systems, processes and performances. The provincial champions not getting a second chance is a bit of a red herring. Everyone gets one chance to win their provincial championship. They then get another chance to win the AI. Everyone is in the same boat.

The reason people are against it are not that it doesn't solve everything. The reasons people are against it are:

  • It makes the strong stronger
  • The players are against it
  • We are locked into it for the next 3 years
  • The CPA don't get a chance to fix the fixtures (Since no one else will despite their promises)
  • It's designed to make money rather than being for the betterment of the association
  • Hurling will be completely overshadowed while all these Super 8 games are going on
But if you reach the AISF once in ten years is that any use? I don't follow the logic.

I agree we should agree to disagree on the next point.

Would the weaker teams not benefit from playing better teams in a similar way that you say the strong teams will? Again, we hear a lot about how the weaker teams need to be exposed to a better standard. Like I said, the argument are all very conflicting.

The CPA has certainly complicated matters by trying to come to the table so late. I think it's reasonable for them to wait the three years to come up with a better proposal. There's no evidence that hurling will overshadowed. The GPA are against it which is definitely noteworthy, although strange considering the number of elements it's addressed.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I hope some of it goes through and then at least we can see how it goes.

According to Loughnane in the Star yesterday: "If the changes are agreed, then there will be 19 football Championship games in the months of July and August. But, in those prime months, there will be just five senior hurling matches". There's evidence for you.

And it's certainly not reasonable to punish anyone who plays gaelic games in Ireland just because the CPA came to the table late as you put it. The motions to move back the AI finals and the use of extra time in the case of a draw outside of finals will and should IMO pass at congress. The super 8s could go either way, certainly there's a late push against it, depends if enough delegates can be swayed despite Duffys trips around the country.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??
As far as I know there are group stages in all the Connacht Counties plus Westmeath and East Meath.  Think Longford and Offaly have too.

Croí - the Super 8s should stand or fall on their own merits not be rejected because the hurley crowd only have a few games in their Championship.
In fact this proposal is probably more suited to them than football.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 24, 2017, 04:49:44 PM
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??
By my reckoning it breaks down thus:
Round Robin* - Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Donegal, Cavan, Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Carlow, Wexford, Tipperary (& divisional c'ships), Limerick and Waterford.
Back Door - Galway, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Clare, Cork, Kerry.
Straight KO - Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry, Antrim, Dublin.

* - you know where you can shove your "Champions League format" bollocks.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 04:52:57 PM
Croi, who's being punished? Such emotive language.

And Ger Loughnane telling us, rightly or wrongly, how many games there are is not evidence of anything. Unless you want it to be of course.

Sure if we get hammerings and dead rubbers with the Super 8 won't everyone be looking to hurling for a decent bit of entertainment? ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on February 24, 2017, 05:26:15 PM
Croi, who's being punished? Such emotive language.

And Ger Loughnane telling us, rightly or wrongly, how many games there are is not evidence of anything. Unless you want it to be of course.

Sure if we get hammerings and dead rubbers with the Super 8 won't everyone be looking to hurling for a decent bit of entertainment? ;)

Players like these are being punished.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/who-do-the-gaa-top-brass-think-they-are-by-ignoring-players-1.2987799 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/who-do-the-gaa-top-brass-think-they-are-by-ignoring-players-1.2987799)

Super 8s not only do nothing for them but lock them into a format that will punish them for an extra 3 years before the CPA can help to work out a format that suits as many people as possible. At least give them a shot at it. Instead of this elitist nonsense.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 06:17:01 PM
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??
By my reckoning it breaks down thus:
Round Robin* - Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Donegal, Cavan, Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Carlow, Wexford, Tipperary (& divisional c'ships), Limerick and Waterford.
Back Door - Galway, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Clare, Cork.
Straight KO - Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry, Antrim, Dublin, Kerry.

* - you know where you can shove your "Champions League format" bollocks.

I think Kerry have a back door if you lose in the first round.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 07:32:47 PM
Croi, who's being punished? Such emotive language.

And Ger Loughnane telling us, rightly or wrongly, how many games there are is not evidence of anything. Unless you want it to be of course.

Sure if we get hammerings and dead rubbers with the Super 8 won't everyone be looking to hurling for a decent bit of entertainment? ;)

Players like these are being punished.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/who-do-the-gaa-top-brass-think-they-are-by-ignoring-players-1.2987799 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/who-do-the-gaa-top-brass-think-they-are-by-ignoring-players-1.2987799)

Super 8s not only do nothing for them but lock them into a format that will punish them for an extra 3 years before the CPA can help to work out a format that suits as many people as possible. At least give them a shot at it. Instead of this elitist nonsense.
If Duffy had not brought any proposals this year then we'd be waiting until this time next year for a proposal which would mean 2019 at the earliest for the proposal to be brought in. Why haven't the club players done something earlier? Did you read Aaron Kernan's comments about the club player? Moan about everything, do nothing. Even some of the lads coming out against the new proposals are accepting that they themselves are partly to blame.

Had Duffy not brought these proposals I'd have my doubts as to whether the CPA would exist yet. They've existed, what, a couple of months, and things should stand still?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Owenmoresider on February 24, 2017, 07:33:19 PM
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??
By my reckoning it breaks down thus:
Round Robin* - Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Donegal, Cavan, Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Carlow, Wexford, Tipperary (& divisional c'ships), Limerick and Waterford.
Back Door - Galway, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Clare, Cork.
Straight KO - Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry, Antrim, Dublin, Kerry.

* - you know where you can shove your "Champions League format" bollocks.

I think Kerry have a back door if you lose in the first round.
Actually that's correct, thought that had gone last year but evidently not.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: criostlinn on February 24, 2017, 08:42:59 PM
If people just keep looking at the negatives in every system we will never change. No system is perfect but at least they are trying something. I say give it a go and see what happens.

All this focus on the weaker counties not getting enough from it. That maybe true, but what are they getting at the moment. The only way to address this is to have a second tier competition and then they get to play teams of equal ability all year. But its my impression they don't want this and it certainly wouldn't have been any good to Tipperary last year.   So what next. Maybe a handicap system. Give Clare a 10 point start against Kerry. The Rossies a 15 point start against Mayo, etc etc. At the end of the day what ever system comes in, it should be about the best team winning.  Supporting weaker counties should be done off the pitch with funding and promotional work. Try ad bring them up to the level of teh stronger teams.  It should not be about handicapping stronger teams to bring everyone down to the same level.

This arguement about this super 8 system only suiting the strong teams. Last year Kerry waltzed into the Semi Final without breaking a sweat. Many (mainly Tymonies) rightly complained. If we had a super 8 system last year they would have been into a group with Ddublin, Donegal and Clare. Would they have made the Semi Final from this. Maybe. But it wouldn't have been as easy.

But above all. This new systems gives the media a greater chance of having 2 Dublin-Kerry love ins every year. One in the Super 8 and another in the All Ireland final. They'll be righting ballads and books for years about the time the Dubs toppled the Kingdom in Killarney. For that alone we cant let this opportunity pass. Vote yes
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 09:41:30 PM
What is this new system supposed to deliver though? What exactly I'd it's purpose?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 09:45:17 PM
What is this new system supposed to deliver though? What exactly I'd it's purpose?
AZ, you come across as someone that's read the document. It's all explained in there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Tubberman on February 24, 2017, 09:46:03 PM
If people just keep looking at the negatives in every system we will never change. No system is perfect but at least they are trying something. I say give it a go and see what happens.

All this focus on the weaker counties not getting enough from it. That maybe true, but what are they getting at the moment. The only way to address this is to have a second tier competition and then they get to play teams of equal ability all year. But its my impression they don't want this and it certainly wouldn't have been any good to Tipperary last year.   So what next. Maybe a handicap system. Give Clare a 10 point start against Kerry. The Rossies a 15 point start against Mayo, etc etc. At the end of the day what ever system comes in, it should be about the best team winning.  Supporting weaker counties should be done off the pitch with funding and promotional work. Try ad bring them up to the level of teh stronger teams.  It should not be about handicapping stronger teams to bring everyone down to the same level.

This arguement about this super 8 system only suiting the strong teams. Last year Kerry waltzed into the Semi Final without breaking a sweat. Many (mainly Tymonies) rightly complained. If we had a super 8 system last year they would have been into a group with Ddublin, Donegal and Clare. Would they have made the Semi Final from this. Maybe. But it wouldn't have been as easy.

But above all. This new systems gives the media a greater chance of having 2 Dublin-Kerry love ins every year. One in the Super 8 and another in the All Ireland final. They'll be righting ballads and books for years about the time the Dubs toppled the Kingdom in Killarney. For that alone we cant let this opportunity pass. Vote yes

Because it's better than what's currently there does not make it the best option.
Rather than implementing a seriously flawed system now, would we not be better to wait another year with the aim of implementing a far superior system.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 24, 2017, 09:50:16 PM
I still don't understand what the positives of it are?

more games? for a very small bunch of counties. the elite just getting better.
it should be more games for more counties, then run off the knockout stages.

more money? surely more games at an earlier stage would do that too?

more media coverage? is that how GAA competitions are now measured?
cause RTE are just terrible at GAA coverage.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 24, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
Don't worry.
RTE will probably only be covering half of these games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 09:58:01 PM
I understand the document talks about the calendar and shortening the season  but specifically what is the bennfit of the new groups? Is it purely financial? Is it to give the media more games to cover?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 24, 2017, 10:04:52 PM
Improve 'the product'.
More 'high quality' games.
Increase visibility.
Increase revenue.
Etc.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 24, 2017, 10:06:36 PM
Is that just your spin on it? It does sound like that's the main reason behind it alright
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 24, 2017, 10:07:46 PM
That's just me imagining how McKenna sold it to Duffy.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on February 24, 2017, 10:09:51 PM
I understand the document talks about the calendar and shortening the season  but specifically what is the bennfit of the new groups? Is it purely financial? Is it to give the media more games to cover?

To get the top teams playing each other more often during a season? I think that could be good. Maybe in this scenario every team will earn their semi final place and avoid a situation like last year were Kerry had to beat Clare then Tipp then Clare to get to an AI semi final?  I'm no particular fan of the idea but I think perhaps the main reason is to dip the toes into a league type format in the championship. Changing things very quickly doesn't tend to happen in the GAA and I think this is a stepping stone to further change......maybe in 40 years time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 24, 2017, 10:17:03 PM
I understand the document talks about the calendar and shortening the season  but specifically what is the bennfit of the new groups? Is it purely financial? Is it to give the media more games to cover?
Sorry, I must try to split the whole proposal from the Super 8 part.

I don't have it in front of me but the two reasons I recall reading are that the provincial winners get a second chance (they were the only teams that didn't previously up to the Q/F) and it makes it harder for the likes of Kerry to win the AI as their route to the SF would be much tougher than it is currently.

I think it might also state the benefits to the lesser teams that make the last eight of getting a big gun in a home draw and the general exposure to playing the better teams.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on February 24, 2017, 10:23:18 PM


I think it might also state the benefits to the lesser teams that make the last eight of getting a big gun in a home draw and the general exposure to playing the better teams.

The chances of say a minnow like Kildare ever being allowed to have a home game against the Dubs is laughable in the extreme.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: criostlinn on February 24, 2017, 10:57:22 PM
If people just keep looking at the negatives in every system we will never change. No system is perfect but at least they are trying something. I say give it a go and see what happens.

All this focus on the weaker counties not getting enough from it. That maybe true, but what are they getting at the moment. The only way to address this is to have a second tier competition and then they get to play teams of equal ability all year. But its my impression they don't want this and it certainly wouldn't have been any good to Tipperary last year.   So what next. Maybe a handicap system. Give Clare a 10 point start against Kerry. The Rossies a 15 point start against Mayo, etc etc. At the end of the day what ever system comes in, it should be about the best team winning.  Supporting weaker counties should be done off the pitch with funding and promotional work. Try ad bring them up to the level of teh stronger teams.  It should not be about handicapping stronger teams to bring everyone down to the same level.

This arguement about this super 8 system only suiting the strong teams. Last year Kerry waltzed into the Semi Final without breaking a sweat. Many (mainly Tymonies) rightly complained. If we had a super 8 system last year they would have been into a group with Ddublin, Donegal and Clare. Would they have made the Semi Final from this. Maybe. But it wouldn't have been as easy.

But above all. This new systems gives the media a greater chance of having 2 Dublin-Kerry love ins every year. One in the Super 8 and another in the All Ireland final. They'll be righting ballads and books for years about the time the Dubs toppled the Kingdom in Killarney. For that alone we cant let this opportunity pass. Vote yes

Because it's better than what's currently there does not make it the best option.
Rather than implementing a seriously flawed system now, would we not be better to wait another year with the aim of implementing a far superior system.

No doubt wait another year or two for that matter for a far superior system if one is available but I can guarantee you no matter what is suggested fault will be found in it.

I for the life of me cannot see a system, that is not 2 tier, that will make weaker counties more competitive. Don't get me wrong I'm all for trying to help the so called weaker counties make the breakthrough but I don't see how rigging a competition to do this will help anyone.  Can anyone show me the ideal format that everyone will support. And please spare me the 2 tier "Tommy Murphy" competitions and the scrapping the provincial championships because we know these are non runner
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rrhf on February 25, 2017, 07:18:15 AM
The big question is: if they change the name. Could a team like Mayo actually win a super 8 final?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: tippabu on February 25, 2017, 10:58:31 AM
Motion passed
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 25, 2017, 11:05:47 AM
I understand the document talks about the calendar and shortening the season  but specifically what is the bennfit of the new groups? Is it purely financial? Is it to give the media more games to cover?

To get the top teams playing each other more often during a season? I think that could be good. Maybe in this scenario every team will earn their semi final place and avoid a situation like last year were Kerry had to beat Clare then Tipp then Clare to get to an AI semi final?  I'm no particular fan of the idea but I think perhaps the main reason is to dip the toes into a league type format in the championship. Changing things very quickly doesn't tend to happen in the GAA and I think this is a stepping stone to further change......maybe in 40 years time.
don't they do that already?
its called the national football league
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 25, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Motion passed
Not surprising, men in suits with money/greed on their minds was always going to pass that motion. To hell with club football and the weaker counties in the AI championship sure what do they matter.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 11:41:43 AM
Motion passed

The fun only begins now.
Let's see if this CPA has any teeth.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Take Your Points on February 25, 2017, 11:44:49 AM
Early warning to Tony Fearon!

When booking your hotel for the All Ireland football weekend, please note the final will be on the last Sunday in August in 2018.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 25, 2017, 11:45:03 AM
The suits have voted, it's now time for the people at grass roots level struggling with crippling debts and growing disenchantment to take back our organisation. I hope the CPA are strong on this and seriously look at the prospect of a strike. What sort of organisation goes against the beliefs and wishes of it's playing members to such an extent. Dinosaurs at board level promised a few extra quid to buy their vote and ignoring the growing problems for the sport. it's long past the time for major reform. This vote is a big 2 fingers up to grass roots players.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 25, 2017, 11:46:26 AM
I cannot understand how so many counties voted for this?

What have they been promised in return?
eg Leitrim, Longford, Antrim, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Carlow, Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Louth, Sligo, Westmeath, Offaly
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 25, 2017, 11:53:14 AM
Why wouldn't the smaller counties vote for it in exchange for money to support and promote games in their county? What difference will the super 8s make to them? They'll get knocked out and play the same championship games as they do now. If anything it'll help club activity in those counties by tightening up the schedule.

The only way things will improve for them is to have their own championship that everyone aspires to win with possibly a route back into the main championship for the winners.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 11:54:36 AM
I cannot understand how so many counties voted for this?

What have they been promised in return?
eg Leitrim, Longford, Antrim, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Carlow, Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Louth, Sligo, Westmeath, Offaly

Maximum coverage for our major sponsors. Remember, we are dealing with the same companies that sponsor FIFA tournaments.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 25, 2017, 11:55:09 AM
You'd also have to wonder in the small counties how their is issues over club fixtures. They generally are knocked out by early July at the latest. That gives them nearly 4 months to get their championship and remaining games played off.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 25, 2017, 12:01:14 PM
I cannot understand how so many counties voted for this?

What have they been promised in return?
eg Leitrim, Longford, Antrim, Fermanagh, Wicklow, Carlow, Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Louth, Sligo, Westmeath, Offaly
All were probably given funding by HQ recently and told they wouldnt receive any more funding unless they passed this motion. Even a super 8 county like Mayo had to say yes after the interest free loan they got from HQ for MacHale park.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 25, 2017, 12:07:54 PM
Why wouldn't the smaller counties vote for it in exchange for money to support and promote games in their county? What difference will the super 8s make to them? They'll get knocked out and play the same championship games as they do now. If anything it'll help club activity in those counties by tightening up the schedule.

The only way things will improve for them is to have their own championship that everyone aspires to win with possibly a route back into the main championship for the winners.

Maybe I've missed something but is this not an amateur organisation based on a volunteer ethos. The congregation of board delegates are a bunch of career politicians who are totally out of touch with the people on the ground and who in effect voted according to how they were told by the hierarchy. Lobbying and promises of more finance have won the day. Hurling completely discarded as well. I hope that this is the straw that broke the camels back.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2017, 12:12:25 PM
Jases lads calm down!!
We have 3 years to come up with a better system and lobby/promote it for Congress 2020.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 25, 2017, 12:14:57 PM
Why wouldn't the smaller counties vote for it in exchange for money to support and promote games in their county? What difference will the super 8s make to them? They'll get knocked out and play the same championship games as they do now. If anything it'll help club activity in those counties by tightening up the schedule.

The only way things will improve for them is to have their own championship that everyone aspires to win with possibly a route back into the main championship for the winners.

Maybe I've missed something but is this not an amateur organisation based on a volunteer ethos. The congregation of board delegates are a bunch of career politicians who are totally out of touch with the people on the ground and who in effect voted according to how they were told by the hierarchy. Lobbying and promises of more finance have won the day. Hurling completely discarded as well. I hope that this is the straw that broke the camels back.

What difference will the super 8s make to a county who maybe make the quarters once every 15 years anyway? That's the question I'm asking. They'll still be finished up by July giving plenty of time for club games in the county. How is a few extra games between the top counties actually going to effect them?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
Jases lads calm down!!
We have 3 years to come up with a better system and lobby/promote it for Congress 2020.

3 years is a long time in a club players life. It's time enough to start a career, find a partner, get married and have a child. 3 years is life changing and anyone thinking about giving the next 3 years of their lives to club football will be thinking very hard about it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 25, 2017, 12:24:53 PM
The GAA hierarchy = a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 25, 2017, 12:33:59 PM
Jases lads calm down!!
We have 3 years to come up with a better system and lobby/promote it for Congress 2020.

3 years is a long time in a club players life. It's time enough to start a career, find a partner, get married and have a child. 3 years is life changing and anyone thinking about giving the next 3 years of their lives to club football will be thinking very hard about it.
Nail on head. Calm down sure its only three years  ::)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 25, 2017, 12:37:41 PM
Why wouldn't the smaller counties vote for it in exchange for money to support and promote games in their county? What difference will the super 8s make to them? They'll get knocked out and play the same championship games as they do now. If anything it'll help club activity in those counties by tightening up the schedule.

The only way things will improve for them is to have their own championship that everyone aspires to win with possibly a route back into the main championship for the winners.

Maybe I've missed something but is this not an amateur organisation based on a volunteer ethos. The congregation of board delegates are a bunch of career politicians who are totally out of touch with the people on the ground and who in effect voted according to how they were told by the hierarchy. Lobbying and promises of more finance have won the day. Hurling completely discarded as well. I hope that this is the straw that broke the camels back.

What difference will the super 8s make to a county who maybe make the quarters once every 15 years anyway? That's the question I'm asking. They'll still be finished up by July giving plenty of time for club games in the county. How is a few extra games between the top counties actually going to effect them?

1. It does nothing to address the inequality of the present system where Dublin and Kerry are effectively in one county provinces and have effectively a bye into the quarter finals each year. Now they can also afford to lose a game in the super 8's (I'm hating that title already) and still probably make the semi final. So they now have effectively a bye into the semi finals each year. The strong will get even further detached from the rest when exactly the opposite was needed to correct the imbalance.

2. I can envisage a scenario whereby players from weaker counties concentrate all their resources entirely on club football if the present system prevails That sounds dramatic but look at what it costs to field an inter county senior team each year. In excess of €500,000 in a lot of cases and that is just for the unsuccessful counties. Indeed it is already happening with lots of players opting out of playing county football in counties like Derry, Down, Galway etc. This will not alleviate the problem and will only serve to increase the divide between weak and strong.

3. I read somewhere that in the peak season months of Jul-Aug-Sep there will be something like 19 football games as opposed to 7 hurling games. This does nothing for hurling.

4. It is now implementted for a trial period of 3 years. Its like sticking a plaster on a bucket with a hole, it does absolutely nothing to address the main issues in our games which I think most people can agree on. Fixtures, championship structure & inequality of the provincial system and finally spiralling costs for counties and clubs.

5. The risk of dead rubbers at a stage of the championship where the results should be do or die. Correspondingly attendances dropping off as people know there will be other days.

But hey, from the GAA's perspective everything is sorted now and we can move on becasue nobody can say we didn't do anything. Now has anyone got any contact details for the CPA.     
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ONeill on February 25, 2017, 12:44:39 PM
As long as they don't touch the McKenna Cup
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 12:50:54 PM
The big question is: if they change the name. Could a team like Mayo actually win a super 8 final?

They'd have to change Mayo's name as well.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 25, 2017, 01:06:55 PM
Well if nothing else, let's hope the anger that it's generated spurs those against it into action. The CPA has existed for how long? Why haven't the club players revolted years ago instead of now when an actual shortening of the inter-county season is put in place?

Clubs will get their players earlier in the next three summers. The Super 8 will mean nothing either good or bad to clubs compared to this year. So let's all see what the next step will be.

And three years is a short time when you consider how long there's been a general dissatisfaction with this issue.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 25, 2017, 01:07:19 PM
The big question is: if they change the name. Could a team like Mayo actually win a super 8 final?

They'd have to change Mayo's name as well.

Was thinking the same with Meath. Maybe they should have a super 4 Leinster title for them to have a chance of winning one instead of a the tarnished one they won 7 years ago! :)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 25, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
Presumably these 3 games will be played weekly.

So, let's say Donegal win Ulster. Then 3 games, let's say Kerry A, Galway H, Kildare in Croke Park. That's an Ulster final, a trip to Kerry and Dublin all within about 3 weeks. If they progress, another trip to Croke Park for a semi final. 5 big games in 6 weeks? At €25+ for a ticket, who's going to afford that?

P Duffy says there's big turnouts for QFs. Yeah, as a one off match! If Donegal lost their first 2 games and are already out before they travel to Croke Park, who the hell's gonna go to that?!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 25, 2017, 01:11:30 PM
This year is the last year of my Season ticket renewal! This smacks of feeding the Croke park and the Dublin supporter. The weaker counties who voted for this will gain nothing and deserve to stay where they are for their short sightedness.

THE GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION is definitely living up to its name!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 25, 2017, 01:15:00 PM
This year is the last year of my Season ticket renewal! This smacks of feeding the Croke park and the Dublin supporter. The weaker counties who voted for this will gain nothing and deserve to stay where they are for their short sightedness.

THE GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION is definitely living up to its name!
You honestly think they could afford to voted against it? The G could also stand for greed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 01:21:18 PM
I wouldn't be a big fan of this 'players good, officials bad' narrative in the context of this vote.
The officials are the ones who see the accounts and have to keep the show on the road.
If Duffy & Co. dangled a nice juicy carrot in front of them for supporting this, I'd find it hard to blame them for taking a bite of it.
Maybe it won't be the end of the world, we'll have to wait and see how it works in practice.
A lot of hysterical stuff being spouted online this morning.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 01:26:09 PM
Michael Duignan‏@DuignanMichael  18 mi
 
Congress & its delegates are detached from reality. They're being conned by the commercial arm that now runs the GAA. So sad.  #elitism
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 25, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
I wouldn't be a big fan of this 'players good, officials bad' narrative in the context of this vote.
The officials are the ones who see the accounts and have to keep the show on the road.
If Duffy & Co. dangled a nice juicy carrot in front of them for supporting this, I'd find it hard to blame them for taking a bite of it.
Maybe it won't be the end of the world, we'll have to wait and see how it works in practice.
A lot of hysterical stuff being spouted online this morning.

Therein lies the problem.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Maroon Manc on February 25, 2017, 01:31:48 PM
I'm not a fan but this is the start of the experiment which if works will see a Champions League type format brought in for everyone which I'd be happy with.

Going to be a very busy July & August for the 2 counties who reach the final next year with 6 games to be played over 8 or 9 weekends. The county with the biggest squad is really going to benefit here, can't think who that is!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 01:38:20 PM
Lads, is this the long con that explains the ongoing relationship with SKY?
Hard to see why they'd be bothered otherwise.
Multiple games running concurrently at the business end of the championship.
They'll be given a big chunk of them to cover, probably with first refusal once they see the match-ups.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: omagh_gael on February 25, 2017, 01:40:49 PM
Overall, this appears to be farce. However, it will throw up some deadly fixtures. Think Dublin v Kerry in Kilarney on a warm summers evening or Tyrone v Mayo up in Healy Park. Provincial grounds packed to the rafters for real do-or-die style games.

Doesn't outweigh all the negatives though.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 01:42:21 PM
Meath vs. Kildare in the redeveloped Pairc Tailteann.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: criostlinn on February 25, 2017, 01:49:09 PM
Michael Duignan‏@DuignanMichael  18 mi
 
Congress & its delegates are detached from reality. They're being conned by the commercial arm that now runs the GAA. So sad.  #elitism

Did Donald Trump hack into Michael Duignan's twitter account or something
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 01:53:03 PM
They'll have to come up with a different name for it anyway.
'Super 8' is classic Sky Sports nonsense.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Aughafad on February 25, 2017, 01:57:04 PM
With the World Cup in 2018, sky won't give a shit about the super 8 as they'll be on at the same time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 01:57:13 PM
Lads, is this the long con that explains the ongoing relationship with SKY?
Hard to see why they'd be bothered otherwise.
Multiple games running concurrently at the business end of the championship.
They'll be given a big chunk of them to cover, probably with first refusal once they see the match-ups.

Yes, there is only one reason to make these changes. More games at peak times with the bigger Counties. Although it's not only Sky. Not only that but SKY money is your money and the money sucked out of small publicans at extortion rates across small towns and villages. There's also the massive companies that sponsor the top teams. Vodafone, Kerrygroup etc. They all want as much return as possible on their investment. And the GAA have provided.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on February 25, 2017, 01:58:37 PM
Provincial winners can only meet in Croker and the Dubs get their home match against a qualifier in Croker too of course so Kerry and Mayo will have to throw their provincial final if they want a home advantage v the Dubs.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 02:02:26 PM
With the World Cup in 2018, sky won't give a shit about the super 8 as they'll be on at the same time.

The world cup in 2018 will be covered by a terrestrial channel in Ireland.
They're trying to increase their market share here, and hang onto subscribers over the summer when there's no english soccer on.
GAA coverage is kind of a loss-leader for them.
Actually, do Sky even cover the world cup?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rrhf on February 25, 2017, 02:24:29 PM
Could there now be the split between club and county.
I'm surprised at the gpas position, how did this pass without a secret support even on their side. How many county boards supported this.
 This can lead to professionalism quicker.
Will grassroots ignore the county gravy train and attendances fall.
Could be an interesting few years.
I
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 25, 2017, 02:25:45 PM
I wouldn't be a big fan of this 'players good, officials bad' narrative in the context of this vote.
The officials are the ones who see the accounts and have to keep the show on the road.
If Duffy & Co. dangled a nice juicy carrot in front of them for supporting this, I'd find it hard to blame them for taking a bite of it.
Maybe it won't be the end of the world, we'll have to wait and see how it works in practice.
A lot of hysterical stuff being spouted online this morning.

Yeah, right. Even if it's a bloody disaster, the GAA hierarchy will continue to talk about how great it is, and how well it's working when it plainly isn't. Look at the black card. Vast majority speaking out against it,but they're ignored. Its here to stay.

Now it's here, it's here to stay regardless if everyone man in the country is against it. Move along, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 02:34:46 PM
Could there now be the split between club and county.
I'm surprised at the gpas position, how did this pass without a secret support even on their side. How many county boards supported this.
 This can lead to professionalism quicker.
Will grassroots ignore the county gravy train and attendances fall.
Could be an interesting few years.
I

What leverage did they bring to bear?
Where was the 'listen to us, or else' attitude of old?
They're bought and paid for at this stage.
If the CPA had got going a year ago, and half the people moaning now had signed up, then there might have been a different outcome.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 02:36:30 PM
Could there now be the split between club and county.
I'm surprised at the gpas position, how did this pass without a secret support even on their side. How many county boards supported this.
 This can lead to professionalism quicker.
Will grassroots ignore the county gravy train and attendances fall.
Could be an interesting few years.
I

There already is a split, it just hasn't been given a name.

I know that I have on occasion been quite happy to see my county team fail to progress. Now there will be times I hope they don't win a Provincial championship or go a distance in the qualifiers.
I think the CPA will react strongly. If only to strngthen themselves. This is the GAA creating a monster they will have to meet head on soon.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 02:41:55 PM
Lot of ill informed hysteria here. It's two rounds of games played within 8 days added to the calendar that's already there. To listen to some posters here hurling has been disbanded, clubs have to play all their games Christmas week and Paraic Duffy is more interested in partying with Jay Z than helping the GAA.

At the very least, this is worth giving a go and unlike the pessimistic soothsayers claims here we can actually review and change it in 2020.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrhardyannual on February 25, 2017, 02:45:58 PM
I wouldn't be a big fan of this 'players good, officials bad' narrative in the context of this vote.
The officials are the ones who see the accounts and have to keep the show on the road.
If Duffy & Co. dangled a nice juicy carrot in front of them for supporting this, I'd find it hard to blame them for taking a bite of it.
Maybe it won't be the end of the world, we'll have to wait and see how it works in practice.
A lot of hysterical stuff being spouted online this morning.

I couldn't agree more. It's time for a little objectivity here rather than this constant barrage of abuse at county officials. I often disagree with the decision of our county board but to suggest that they are all out of touch with their clubs is unfair as most of them have been, and still are, driving forces within their clubs.

How representative is the CPA? For a "players association" it is front loaded by GAA personalities, ex-managers &  ex-players (Dempsey, Curran, Kernan etc) all or many of whom have been involved in bringing forward alternative proposals for change within the association that have not met with universal support. 

A few points:

Clubs complain of  club matches being postponed etc. during the inter-county season yet the same clubs do nothing about it at county board level. Last year there was near universal disapproval within Mayo at the postponement of the final round of the round-robin section of the county championship. The move was signalled in advance of a county board meeting, all senior and intermediate clubs were affected (32 of 48 clubs) and yet the deferral was agreed by the clubs at the county board. Why?

Clubs complain of the costs involved in competing at club level. The greatest cost involved is in the hiring of professional management and backroom teams (physio, S&C, medical etc). A small band of managers operate on a lucrative circuit around Mayo & Galway. Despite this, county championships have been won by very few teams yet players in all clubs demand these outsiders. Most clubs are up to their eyes in debt and it is not the players who are out fundraising to pay off the debts. Why not?

The majority of those who support GAA inter-county teams have little or no involvement in clubs. The advent of season tickets has exacerbated this as people now have access to tickets without involving themselves in clubs. They are the most vocal when it comes to attacking anybody who would try to curb the incidence of county managers having games called off to "protect" county players. And despite the fact that it hurts their own interests you will find that club players are among this group. Should pressure groups such as county supporters have more say than clubs?

We now have a near-professional approach to the playing of county and club championships while professing to be an amateur organisation. At a recent meeting to look towards a vision of the GAA in 2034 most people attending professed a vision of the GAA as being amateur, having defined programmes of club and county games, an end to the hiring of external coaches/managers, county players playing for their clubs, a reduction of red tape/administration at club level and players playing for the enjoyment of the game rather than the winning of titles. When asked what they thought would be the reality they almost entirely saw the opposite, i.e more professionalism, administration, debt and club football played without their county players. Finally when asked what steps could be taken to make their vision a reality there was a near unanimous silence.

My point is that we lack an agreed vision of what we want in the future. Without this vision we will continue to be reacting to problems rather than planning for the future. We cannot afford a professional game based on a 32 county basis. A rugby-like franchise system with a limited number of teams based around the strongest counties and large urban areas with more than one Dublin based side might work but would struggle to gain acceptance from followers of disenfranchised counties.... yet this is where we are heading. Clubs too need to face up to the reality of what they are..... clubs for the promotion and development of Gaelic Games or semi-professional outfits being run for the benefit of the few by the efforts of many. Until players step up to the mark in contributing to the running of their clubs the CPA will continue to be a mouthpiece for those who want to representation without participation.

I see that John Horan is suggesting a root and branch review of the association on the lines of the McNamee commission. It can't come too soon.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 02:46:34 PM
Lot of ill informed hysteria here. It's two rounds of games played within 8 days added to the calendar that's already there. To listen to some posters here hurling has been disbanded, clubs have to play all their games Christmas week and Paraic Duffy is more interested in partying with Jay Z than helping the GAA.

At the very least, this is worth giving a go and unlike the pessimistic soothsayers claims here we can actually re Jew and change it in 2020.

 ???
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 02:49:26 PM
Lot of ill informed hysteria here. It's two rounds of games played within 8 days added to the calendar that's already there. To listen to some posters here hurling has been disbanded, clubs have to play all their games Christmas week and Paraic Duffy is more interested in partying with Jay Z than helping the GAA.

At the very least, this is worth giving a go and unlike the pessimistic soothsayers claims here we can actually re Jew and change it in 2020.

Oops, changed that now!
 ???
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on February 25, 2017, 02:49:53 PM
Lot of ill informed hysteria here. It's two rounds of games played within 8 days added to the calendar that's already there. To listen to some posters here hurling has been disbanded, clubs have to play all their games Christmas week and Paraic Duffy is more interested in partying with Jay Z than helping the GAA.

At the very least, this is worth giving a go and unlike the pessimistic soothsayers claims here we can actually re Jew and change it in 2020.

Reductio ad absurdum rather than make a point makes it seem like you have a weak argument.

I wonder why they would propose this? The major thing here is more games for top teams for no reason other than to have more games for top teams. What would be the motivation behind that? Could it be sponsorship or TV deals? If so then is this not a genuine reason to be concerned?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 25, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
Also, in the context of the uproar on social media, if we've learned anything in the last 2 years it is that there is a silent majority who are willing to act and a vocal minority who are happy to just make noise.
The outrage will blow over by Monday.
The powers that be fully understand how this works.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 25, 2017, 02:59:28 PM
This had to be passed now, before the CPA became stronger.

The CPA will do nothing about it now. It's the little guy v the corporation.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on February 25, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Don't think this is a good idea. Like AZ, Rossfan and a few others, I think it's primarily driven by commercial interests rather than anything else.

However, it'll be a huge success in the first few years due to the novelty of it and the quality of the teams involved. I think that will level off in subsequent years as it becomes stale with the same teams competing all the time. The new phrase will be "sure the championship doesn't start properly til the semi finals"

Any talk of it improving the lot of "weaker" counties is rubbish and in fairness, a change in the fixtures calendar isn't the way to improve standards - extra coaches and money is the only way to do that.

What I'd like to see is something like this:

Club season from Jan-mid May, county from mid-may-Sept
League played off first to qualify for the all Ireland series - say top 6 in D1, top 3 in D2, top 2 in 3 and top in D4 or something similar.
Provincials played next since they can't be abolished. Four winners qualify for the all Ireland series (maybe with home adv). Some sort of system to be devised for who replaces teams who've won two spots in the all Ireland series.
Seeded knockout competition from there on in.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 03:06:34 PM
Lot of ill informed hysteria here. It's two rounds of games played within 8 days added to the calendar that's already there. To listen to some posters here hurling has been disbanded, clubs have to play all their games Christmas week and Paraic Duffy is more interested in partying with Jay Z than helping the GAA.

At the very least, this is worth giving a go and unlike the pessimistic soothsayers claims here we can actually review and change it in 2020.

Reductio ad absurdum rather than make a point makes it seem like you have a weak argument.

I wonder why they would propose this? The major thing here is more games for top teams for no reason other than to have more games for top teams. What would be the motivation behind that? Could it be sponsorship or TV deals? If so then is this not a genuine reason to be concerned?

Well first off the vast majority of people accept what we have doesn't work, secondly the provincials had to be kept so making a change which helps clubs, provincial champions and the promotion and finance of the GAA had to be done on this basis.

It isn't perfect but there isn't a perfect system so why not give this a go rather than complain about the current system yet have no realistic alternative?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2017, 03:24:27 PM
What difference will this make to Johnny who plays for Aughawillan for example?
A chap who never did and never will get near a County team.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: johnpower on February 25, 2017, 03:30:28 PM
Well good to see some change never thought it would get through
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 03:37:28 PM
Well good to see some change never thought it would get through

You weren't paying much attention to Duffy's gerrymandering, then.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 25, 2017, 03:38:46 PM
I'm not a fan but this is the start of the experiment which if works will see a Champions League type format brought in for everyone which I'd be happy with.

Going to be a very busy July & August for the 2 counties who reach the final next year with 6 games to be played over 8 or 9 weekends. The county with the biggest squad is really going to benefit here, can't think who that is!

This has Dublin Dominance written all over it! More games in Croker to feed that monster. Professionalism has arrived.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on February 25, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
2 home games for Dublin every year when the other 7 will only get 1, how will that be fair?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 04:28:33 PM
I'm not a fan but this is the start of the experiment which if works will see a Champions League type format brought in for everyone which I'd be happy with.

Going to be a very busy July & August for the 2 counties who reach the final next year with 6 games to be played over 8 or 9 weekends. The county with the biggest squad is really going to benefit here, can't think who that is!

This has Dublin Dominance written all over it! More games in Croker to feed that monster. Professionalism has arrived.

Once a lot of counties are out of their province the season's over pretty much now for them. There's no carrot on the stick bar multiple drubbings in August for them now. Very disappointing how the GAA has gone from a genuinely amateur organisation to one fixated on profits over the last two decades. People are going to stop bothering and caring in a lot of counties.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
Bringing forward the All-Ireland finals to August while expanding the football championship simply doesn't make sense.

There is going to be a serious squeeze on the calendar.

The hurling championship will be dwarfed by football.

Inevitably hurling will then look to incorporate its own round robin Super 8 or Super 6 series, and then the All-Ireland finals will have to be moved back to their original September dates.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 25, 2017, 05:22:34 PM
What difference will this make to Johnny who plays for Aughawillan for example?
A chap who never did and never will get near a County team.
None.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 05:28:46 PM
2 home games for Dublin every year when the other 7 will only get 1, how will that be fair?
Dublin play all of their All-Ireland football quarter-finals at Croke Park as it is.

So it'll be going from Dublin having 100% of their quarter-final stage games at home to having 66.666% of their quarter-final stage games at home.

And their opponents will go from having 0% of their quarter-final stage games at home to having 33.333% of them at home.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Aughafad on February 25, 2017, 05:58:59 PM
The only time Dublin will be out of Croke park it'll be against so called weaker teams! Not against Kerry, Cork,Donegal, Mayo or Tyrone. And when they do play one of these teams away from home it'll be when they are weaker
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 25, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
Bringing forward the All-Ireland finals to August while expanding the football championship simply doesn't make sense.

There is going to be a serious squeeze on the calendar.

The hurling championship will be dwarfed by football.

Inevitably hurling will then look to incorporate its own round robin Super 8 or Super 6 series, and then the All-Ireland finals will have to be moved back to their original September dates.
It's a wonder that hurling counties haven't kicked up about this.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2017, 06:07:17 PM
Hurling counties wouldn't lower themselves to think about how they should vote on mere football matters.
Anyway it's up to the hurley to re organise their own  little championshipeen.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 06:07:32 PM
A sample calendar for the 2018 inter-county seson may look something like as follows:

April 8: NFL Final
April 15: NHL Final

April 22: Provincial football preliminary rounds
April 29: Provincial football quarter-finals
May 5/6: Provincial football quarter finals, 1 Munster hurling quarter-final
May 12/13: Provincial football quarter-finals/semi-finals, Leinster hurling quarter-finals
May 19/20: Provincial football semi-finals, 1 Munster Hurling semi-final, Football qualifiers Round 1
May 26/27: Provincial football semi-finals,  1 Munster hurling semi-final

Sat June 2: Football qualifiers round 2, Leinster hurling semi-finals
Sun June 3: Munster Football Final, Connacht Football Final
Sat June 9: Football Qualifiers Round 3
Sun June 10: Leinster Football Final, Ulster Football Final
Sat June 16: Hurling Qualifiers Round 1
Sun June 17: Football Qualifiers Round 4
Sun June 24: Munster Hurling Final,  Leinster Hurling Final
Sat June 30: Hurling Qualifiers Round 2

Sun July 1: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 1
Sat July 7: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 2
Sun July 8: All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-finals
July 14/15: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 3
July 21/22: All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
July 28/29: All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals

August 4/5: Nothing*
August 12: All-Ireland Hurling final
August 26: All-Ireland Football final

*Hurling semi-finals will require a three week gap to the final as a two week gap could require a team play an All-Ireland final on its third week out in a row, if there was a semi-final replay.

You can still get replays even with extra-time in the football championship, and they will still happen.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
A sample calendar for the 2018 inter-county seson may look something like as follows:

*Hurling semi-finals will require a three week gap to the final as a two week gap could require a team play an All-Ireland final on its third week out in a row, if there was a semi-final replay.

You can still get replays even with extra-time in the football championship, and they will still happen.
April 8: NFL Final
10 April : US rounds up Muslims in internment camps
April 15: NHL Final

April 22: Provincial football preliminary rounds
April 27 : CNN shut down
April 29: Provincial football quarter-finals
May 5/6: Provincial football quarter finals, 1 Munster hurling quarter-final, New York State secedes from US
May 12/13: Provincial football quarter-finals/semi-finals, Leinster hurling quarter-finals, NRA declares war on New York Times
May 19/20: Provincial football semi-finals, 1 Munster Hurling semi-final, Football qualifiers Round 1
US declares tariffs of 100% on French products
May 26/27: Provincial football semi-finals,  1 Munster hurling semi-final

Sat June 2: Football qualifiers round 2, Leinster hurling semi-finals, RNC declares Trump president for life
Sun June 3: Munster Football Final, Connacht Football Final, Congress is burnt down
Sat June 9: Football Qualifiers Round 3 , US Government declares emergency powers
Sun June 10: Leinster Football Final, Ulster Football Final, Whitey admits Trump may be dangerous
Sat June 16: Hurling Qualifiers Round 1
Sun June 17: Football Qualifiers Round 4
Sun June 24: Munster Hurling Final,  Leinster Hurling Final, Mexico is attacked
Sat June 30: Hurling Qualifiers Round 2

Sun July 1: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 1, Tariffs of 150% are slapped on Chinese products
Sat July 7: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 2, Trump visits North Korea
Sun July 8: All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-finals Mexico war ends
July 14/15: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 3
July 21/22: All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
July 28/29: All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals

August 4/5: Nothing* US launches nuclear war against the EU. 
August 12: All-Ireland Hurling final takes place online
August 26: All-Ireland Football final is cancelled
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 06:46:42 PM
A sample calendar for the 2018 inter-county seson may look something like as follows:

*Hurling semi-finals will require a three week gap to the final as a two week gap could require a team play an All-Ireland final on its third week out in a row, if there was a semi-final replay.

You can still get replays even with extra-time in the football championship, and they will still happen.
April 8: NFL Final
10 April : US rounds up Muslims in internment camps
April 15: NHL Final

April 22: Provincial football preliminary rounds
April 27 : CNN shut down
April 29: Provincial football quarter-finals
May 5/6: Provincial football quarter finals, 1 Munster hurling quarter-final, New York State secedes from US
May 12/13: Provincial football quarter-finals/semi-finals, Leinster hurling quarter-finals, NRA declares war on New York Times
May 19/20: Provincial football semi-finals, 1 Munster Hurling semi-final, Football qualifiers Round 1
US declares tariffs of 100% on French products
May 26/27: Provincial football semi-finals,  1 Munster hurling semi-final

Sat June 2: Football qualifiers round 2, Leinster hurling semi-finals, RNC declares Trump president for life
Sun June 3: Munster Football Final, Connacht Football Final, Congress is burnt down
Sat June 9: Football Qualifiers Round 3 , US Government declares emergency powers
Sun June 10: Leinster Football Final, Ulster Football Final, Whitey admits Trump may be dangerous
Sat June 16: Hurling Qualifiers Round 1
Sun June 17: Football Qualifiers Round 4
Sun June 24: Munster Hurling Final,  Leinster Hurling Final, Mexico is attacked
Sat June 30: Hurling Qualifiers Round 2

Sun July 1: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 1, Tariffs of 150% are slapped on Chinese products
Sat July 7: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 2, Trump visits North Korea
Sun July 8: All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-finals Mexico war ends
July 14/15: All-Ireland Football Super 8 Round 3
July 21/22: All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
July 28/29: All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals

August 4/5: Nothing* US launches nuclear war against the EU. 
August 12: All-Ireland Hurling final takes place online
August 26: All-Ireland Football final is cancelled
You're confusing a lot of 2017 events with 2018 there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on February 25, 2017, 07:17:24 PM
Not an exact poll or anything but notable how many intercounty players have spoken out against it on Twitter today. Some choice language used and all. Lot of frustration there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2017, 07:44:28 PM
Not an exact poll or anything but notable how many intercounty players have spoken out against it on Twitter today. Some choice language used and all. Lot of frustration there.

Eg
https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: hardstation on February 25, 2017, 10:03:01 PM
How does this make the championship better?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:10:45 PM
How does this make the championship better?

The media will be happy.  More games between the big guns to talk and write about.

I'm not against it to be honest but I think it's just change for changes sake.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:19:10 PM
How does this make the championship better?

The media will be happy.  More games between the big guns to talk and write about.

I'm not against it to be honest but I think it's just change for changes sake.

AZ how do you make that out? You're a defender of the provincials so if you keep them hoe do we improve the format for teams? Are round robin within the provincials? This is far from perfect but it gives provincial winners a second chance, more big games at provincial venues and more high profile games involving the best teams. It doesn't solve all issues but I'm all ears if someone here has the solution.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 10:19:49 PM
I'd much rather have kept the All-Ireland finals in September, and neither am I a fan of the Super 8 concept, but I really don't get this thing about the changes being bad for clubs.

Each county declares that they will start their county championship no earlier than say, the last week in July. That gives ample time for counties to run off their county championships. Club players will have a much greater degree of certainty as regards when their championship campaign begins and can plan holidays accordingly. Even in Dublin, where championships likely still won't begin until the second week of September, it's ample time to run them off compared to this year.

The Dublin county championship actually proves that club championships are more exciting when run off in a short time frame, in my view.


Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ONeill on February 25, 2017, 10:21:03 PM
I think club players were hoping for something that does make a difference to them, not a pretend change that really doesn't affect the majority atall.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:26:25 PM
How does this make the championship better?

The media will be happy.  More games between the big guns to talk and write about.

I'm not against it to be honest but I think it's just change for changes sake.



AZ how do you make that out? You're a defender of the provincials so if you keep them hoe do we improve the format for teams? Are round robin within the provincials? This is far from perfect but it gives provincial winners a second chance, more big games at provincial venues and more high profile games involving the best teams. It doesn't solve all issues but I'm all ears if someone here has the solution.

Come on Zulu.  This is popcorn. Big swinging micky. It's a cosmetic change to give more games between big teams.

And as such it is fine. But it's not structural reform.  And its not alleviating any pressures anywhere. In fact I can't see how this doesn't squeeze the accordion more.

I think this is the first step towarda champions league style tiered championships. Then the media partners can spend the entire summer talking about 8 teams and ignoring everyone else.


My preference is for seeded provincial championships based on league finish. And straight knockout
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:26:40 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 10:28:10 PM
I'd much rather have kept the All-Ireland finals in September, and neither am I a fan of the Super 8 concept, but I really don't get this thing about the changes being bad for clubs.

Each county declares that they will start their county championship no earlier than say, the last week in July. That gives ample time for counties to run off their county championships. Club players will have a much greater degree of certainty as regards when their championship campaign begins and can plan holidays accordingly. Even in Dublin, where championships likely still won't begin until the second week of September, it's ample time to run them off compared to this year.

The Dublin county championship actually proves that club championships are more exciting when run off in a short time frame, in my view.

http://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/results/107502

For someone talking about the greatness of the Dublin Superclub Championship you don't seem to know when it starts.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:29:25 PM
I told you the solution I'd like.

Also I said I'm not against this I just think it's a sop to the media.

I think you are detached Zulu. Come home
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:30:26 PM
How does this make the championship better?

The media will be happy.  More games between the big guns to talk and write about.

I'm not against it to be honest but I think it's just change for changes sake.



AZ how do you make that out? You're a defender of the provincials so if you keep them hoe do we improve the format for teams? Are round robin within the provincials? This is far from perfect but it gives provincial winners a second chance, more big games at provincial venues and more high profile games involving the best teams. It doesn't solve all issues but I'm all ears if someone here has the solution.

Come on Zulu.  This is popcorn. Big swinging micky. It's a cosmetic change to give more games between big teams.

And as such it is fine. But it's not structural reform.  And its not alleviating any pressures anywhere. In fact I can't see how this doesn't squeeze the accordion more.

I think this is the first step towarda champions league style tiered championships. Then the media partners can spend the entire summer talking about 8 teams and ignoring everyone else.


My preference is for seeded provincial championships based on league finish. And straight knockout

What does that even mean? Lets say we accept your solution, and I don't, does that get through congress? This is an imperfect solution based on the parameters set by the counties. Is it not worth a go?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 10:34:17 PM
I'd much rather have kept the All-Ireland finals in September, and neither am I a fan of the Super 8 concept, but I really don't get this thing about the changes being bad for clubs.

Each county declares that they will start their county championship no earlier than say, the last week in July. That gives ample time for counties to run off their county championships. Club players will have a much greater degree of certainty as regards when their championship campaign begins and can plan holidays accordingly. Even in Dublin, where championships likely still won't begin until the second week of September, it's ample time to run them off compared to this year.

The Dublin county championship actually proves that club championships are more exciting when run off in a short time frame, in my view.

http://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/results/107502

For someone talking about the greatness of the Dublin Superclub Championship you don't seem to know when it starts.
I know when the Dublin club championships begin, mate.

And the new system will give more time for them to be run off.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:34:57 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.


I find your attitude on this very condescending.

And again, I've said several times I'm not against this, I just think it's a bit of window dressing.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:37:05 PM
I told you the solution I'd like.

Also I said I'm not against this I just think it's a sop to the media.

I think you are detached Zulu. Come home

I know you think it's a sop to the media but I completely disagree. Your solution isn't the same as wobblers or mine yet we are all genuine GAA men so how do we come up with a solution that we all agree? We can't. This is a modest change that has multiple benefits yet to listen to some of the criticism you'd think the GAA has been banned. It's complete shite.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:39:36 PM
I think you are foisting your frustrations with other posters on me. I said, sigh, I'm not against this. All I said is its neither fish nor fowl. I mean what exactly is it other than more games to sell to customers and media.

But again, it's grand. Let's see how it goes, I'm sure the games will be interesting and novel.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:44:08 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.


I find your attitude on this very condescending.

And again, I've said several times I'm not against this, I just think it's a bit of window dressing.

AZ, you're a good poster but when you accuse me of being condensing while saying I'm all about seeing the big boys clashing, well just say that's nonsense. Neither do I sneer at provincials, I just think they are central to our problems. Please put forward a proposal where the provincials are central to a format where weaker teams are helped and the sport is promoted?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
The central problem is the money and the coaching it provides and the GAA's unwillingness to split a county that is the size of most of the rest of the country combined because it's a cash cow, and well you know it Zulu.

I'd have thought you'd be out celebrating a Dublin president and an elitist addition to the championship calendar..
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ONeill on February 25, 2017, 10:49:13 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.



I detest the provincials. In 100 years, our grandchildren will be laughing that, in sport, there was a competition which saw 4 competitions - one with 9 teams, one with 7 although two of them weren't in Ireland, another with 6 and another with 12 teams, to reach the same stage and some teams in the smaller groupings played less than others in it. And some teams played 4 games, without replays, to reach the quarter finals and others played 2 to do the same. But people liked it cos it was traditional.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: clarshack on February 25, 2017, 10:53:27 PM
This format will be similar to what the champions league was like when it started back in 1991/1992. The champions league back then had some qualifying rounds, then 2 groups of 4 teams then the winners of each group met in the final. I wonder where the GAA will be in 10 years time...
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:55:54 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.



I detest the provincials. In 100 years, our grandchildren will be laughing that, in sport, there was a competition which saw 4 competitions - one with 9 teams, one with 7 although two of them weren't in Ireland, another with 6 and another with 12 teams, to reach the same stage and some teams in the smaller groupings played less than others in it. And some teams played 4 games, without replays, to reach the quarter finals and others played 2 to do the same. But people liked it cos it was traditional.

Fair enough, I like them. And I like them because it gives mid tier teams a somewhat realistic target every year, and high stakes games against close rivals.

I'd have no problem with 4 8 team provincials though. North South East and West.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:57:21 PM
The central problem is the money and the coaching it provides and the GAA's unwillingness to split a county that is the size of most of the rest of the country combined because it's a cash cow, and well you know it Zulu.

I'd have thought you'd be out celebrating a Dublin president and an elitist addition to the championship calendar..

Syferus, you come across as a genuine passionate GAA man but you talk some shite. Just try to talk some sense and we might be able to discuss these things.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 10:58:23 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.



I detest the provincials. In 100 years, our grandchildren will be laughing that, in sport, there was a competition which saw 4 competitions - one with 9 teams, one with 7 although two of them weren't in Ireland, another with 6 and another with 12 teams, to reach the same stage and some teams in the smaller groupings played less than others in it. And some teams played 4 games, without replays, to reach the quarter finals and others played 2 to do the same. But people liked it cos it was traditional.

Fair enough, I like them. And I like them because it gives mid tier teams a somewhat realistic target every year, and high stakes games against close rivals.

I'd have no problem with 4 8 team provincials though. North South East and West.

It would only make sense if all teams had similar budgets and halfways comparable populations. Trying to make one aspect of the GAA fair while leaving a more massive inbalance elsewhere is the definition of skin-deep change.

This year's changes barely amounts to painting the pig's eyelashes with mascara.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:58:44 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.


I find your attitude on this very condescending.

And again, I've said several times I'm not against this, I just think it's a bit of window dressing.

AZ, you're a good poster but when you accuse me of being condensing while saying I'm all about seeing the big boys clashing, well just say that's nonsense. Neither do I sneer at provincials, I just think they are central to our problems. Please put forward a proposal where the provincials are central to a format where weaker teams are helped and the sport is promoted?

You don't sneer at provincials, you would just get rid of them in the morning, thanks for clarifying.

Provincial championships, seeded such that weaker teams play each other in earlier rounds, with seedings based in league final position. No back doors,no qualifiers.

That would be fundamental reform, but so simple to do.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:59:07 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.



I detest the provincials. In 100 years, our grandchildren will be laughing that, in sport, there was a competition which saw 4 competitions - one with 9 teams, one with 7 although two of them weren't in Ireland, another with 6 and another with 12 teams, to reach the same stage and some teams in the smaller groupings played less than others in it. And some teams played 4 games, without replays, to reach the quarter finals and others played 2 to do the same. But people liked it cos it was traditional.

Fair enough, I like them. And I like them because it gives mid tier teams a somewhat realistic target every year, and high stakes games against close rivals.

I'd have no problem with 4 8 team provincials though. North South East and West.

It doesn't do that though and it certainly isn't the only format that can do that.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Itchy on February 25, 2017, 11:00:54 PM
Can someone explain to me as i am obviously stupid, how does this help club players throughout Ireland?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.











Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:01:21 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.



I detest the provincials. In 100 years, our grandchildren will be laughing that, in sport, there was a competition which saw 4 competitions - one with 9 teams, one with 7 although two of them weren't in Ireland, another with 6 and another with 12 teams, to reach the same stage and some teams in the smaller groupings played less than others in it. And some teams played 4 games, without replays, to reach the quarter finals and others played 2 to do the same. But people liked it cos it was traditional.

Fair enough, I like them. And I like them because it gives mid tier teams a somewhat realistic target every year, and high stakes games against close rivals.

I'd have no problem with 4 8 team provincials though. North South East and West.

It would only make sense if all teams had similar budgets and halfways comparable populations. Trying to make one aspect of the GAA fair while leaving a more massive inbalance elsewhere is the definition of skin-deep change.

This year's changes barely amounts to painting the pig's eyelashes with mascara.

That is the elephant in the room. The provinces get more inequitable as the big budget teams in each, bar Ulster so far, pull away from the others. But to solve that by removing the provinces is the definition of solving the wrong problem.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:02:27 PM
Can someone explain to me as i am obviously stupid, how does this help club players throughout Ireland?

This proposal does nothing. The other two which moved the All Ireland forward are good and worthy.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:04:53 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:06:36 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.


I find your attitude on this very condescending.

And again, I've said several times I'm not against this, I just think it's a bit of window dressing.

AZ, you're a good poster but when you accuse me of being condensing while saying I'm all about seeing the big boys clashing, well just say that's nonsense. Neither do I sneer at provincials, I just think they are central to our problems. Please put forward a proposal where the provincials are central to a format where weaker teams are helped and the sport is promoted?

You don't sneer at provincials, you would just get rid of them in the morning, thanks for clarifying.

Provincial championships, seeded such that weaker teams play each other in earlier rounds, with seedings based in league final position. No back doors,no qualifiers.

That would be fundamental reform, but so simple to do.

Why would Waterford, Carlow, Wicklow want to play each other early so they could get beaten by the same teams they always got beaten by?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:09:17 PM
Sure why should they bother at all? They seem to like it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 25, 2017, 11:11:53 PM
Mayo this year were beaten by Galway.

Game 1 Mayo v Galway


They then went on to play

Game 2  v Fermanagh
Game 3 v Kildare
Game 4 v Westmeath

So then i presume we'd have this group stage of the Super 8

Tipp
Galway
Mayo
Tyrone

So games for Mayo would be


Game 5 Mayo v Galway
Game 6 Mayo v Tipp
Game 7 Mayo v Tyrone

So we'll presume Mayo top the group and play the Runner up of the other group

Game 8 Mayo v Kerry

And if then they win that of course you have

Game 9 Dublin in the final.

Game 10 the Replay


Thoughts

10 games to win an AI in the Mayo example above. Probably more if you are an Ulster team who wins a Preliminary round and loses a Quater final in the Ulster Championship.


I have to say Mayo were stretched after the Fermanagh/Kildare/Westmeath games coming into their game against Tyrone. Imagine having those hurdles and then asked to proceed onto the Tyrone/Tipp/Galway games before you see a semi final.

Under the new set-up could Mayo lose twice and win an AI?

Under the new set-up (and using the above example) could Mayo lose twice to Galway and win an AI?

Do Dublin Get to play ALL there Super 8 games in Croker?

Will teams throw games not to meet Dublin in a semi-final?

What happens where you have two teams with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin?

What happens when you have one team with something to play for and another with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin?

What happens when you have one team with something to play for and another with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin and another team depends on a result from the team who has nothing to play for?

















Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:12:30 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.

The Super 8 does two things. It makes it more difficult to organise the inter-county calendar. the start of the championship will be pushed back almost on top of the league. The inter county calendar will now run effectively non-stop from the start of January to the end of August.

It is also a way to make up for the shortfall which will come from the smaller amount of replays, which have been a big money spinner and driver of media publicity for the GAA over the years, eg. the Dublin-Mayo replay in 2015 and the Kerry Mayo replay in 2014.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:13:24 PM
I'm asking because you are criticising the new system. I think the current system is  a disaster and the new one falls short but I support the new one because it is better. You seem to be against both.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:13:47 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.

The Super 8 does two things. It makes it more difficult to organise the calendar. the start of the championship will be pushed back almost on top of the league. The inter county calendar will now run effectively non-stop from the start of January to the end of August.

It is also a way to make up for the shortfall which will come from the smaller amount of replays, which have been a big money spinner and driver of media publicity for the GAA over the years, eg. the Dublin-Mayo replay in 2015 and the Kerry Mayo replay in 2014.

Never thought of it in terms of making up replay shortfall. Good point.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:14:47 PM
I'm asking because you are criticising the new system. I think the current system is  a disaster and the new one falls short but I support the new one because it is better. You seem to be against both.

Jesus. Will you read what I wrote 😀 I said I'm NOT against the new change. I just don't see much difference in it in real terms.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on February 25, 2017, 11:16:51 PM
Bunker, Mayo could actually lose 3 times and still win an AI...if they were drawn against Laois, and they still hadn't learnt to count.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:18:19 PM
I saw you're not against it but you still seem to be complaining about it!! It isn't perfect but worth a try, can we agree on that???!!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:21:43 PM
I don't think I'm complaining about it. You should see me when I start complaining! All I said is I didn't really see the point of it, other than as an update to the product offered to media and sponsors.

I'm more than willing to see what happens with it, I never said otherwise. So yes, we can agree on that. Stand down to Defcon 4. 😀
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: hardstation on February 25, 2017, 11:29:42 PM
AZ, I'm not sure why you're trying to turn people against this change when you haven't offered any decent alternative.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
AZ, I'm not sure why you're trying to turn people against this change when you haven't offered any decent alternative.

😀
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:30:45 PM
Ok.

Point 1. Provincial winners get a second chance

Point 2. More high profile games

Point 3. No easy paths to All Ireland SF

Point 4. Big games at local venues giving families a better opportunity to see games
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 25, 2017, 11:31:56 PM
AZ, I'm not sure why you're trying to turn people against this change when you haven't offered any decent alternative.

There's not many left to turn against it in the first place.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:34:53 PM
Ok.

Point 1. Provincial winners get a second chance - Fair enough but that was never a big issue to me.

Point 2. More high profile games - Agreed. I think this is actually point 1.

Point 3. No easy paths to All Ireland SF - granted.

Point 4. Big games at local venues giving families a better opportunity to see games - ok but again, wasn't a big issue to me.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:40:32 PM
So you agree, this is good?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:45:31 PM
So you agree, this is good?

Are you rising me now? I'm not against it. I have no meas on points 1 or 4 and I think point 2 is the main point.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 26, 2017, 12:03:22 AM
Not rising and I know you are not against more high profile games but I'm struggling to find what you're against. You're for the provincials and more games for the weaker teams, if so, how do we do that?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 26, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
Not rising and I know you are not against more high profile games but I'm struggling to find what you're against. You're for the provincials and more games for the weaker teams, if so, how do we do that?

I'm NOT against it. How many times do I have to say that?  As far as I'm concerned its just a few extra games after the provincials, so rock on.

And also, where did I say I'm for more games for the weaker teams? Sure I'd do away with the qualifiers.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 26, 2017, 12:10:05 AM
Bunker, Mayo could actually lose 3 times and still win an AI...if they were drawn against Laois, and they still hadn't learnt to count.

Sweet Jehovah, it gets worse!  ;D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 26, 2017, 12:17:56 AM
Not rising and I know you are not against more high profile games but I'm struggling to find what you're against. You're for the provincials and more games for the weaker teams, if so, how do we do that?

I'm NOT against it. How many times do I have to say that?  As far as I'm concerned its just a few extra games after the provincials, so rock on.

And also, where did I say I'm for more games for the weaker teams? Sure I'd do away with the qualifiers.

Ok, so you are for this? Why do away with the qualifiers?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 26, 2017, 12:25:21 AM
I don't like the qualifiers because weak teams just get hammered twice, and mid tier teams who catch a bigger team should be knocking them out. Kerry losing to Cork, and then getting further than them in the AI series doesn't sit right with me. I think it has diluted the intensity of the provincial games. there's a safety valve and the supporters know this too.

As for this proposal, it's not something I'd have bothered suggesting, and I still think it was suggested for financial reasons rather than competiton reasons, but it's worth giving a chance. Yeah. I certainly don't see it as Armageddon like others seem to.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 26, 2017, 12:34:36 AM
Ok.

Point 1. Provincial winners get a second chance And back door losers get a third chance

Point 2. More high profile games Also the chance of a weak team getting three tankings!

Point 3. No easy paths to All Ireland SF In theory, until you see Kerrys group! :P

Point 4. Big games at local venues giving families a better opportunity to see games. Can you honestly see games involving Dublin being played outside Croker?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2017, 12:39:27 AM
What is it we want here?

Do we want a championship system where the weaker inter-county teams get more games?
Do we want to see big inter-county teams playing more games against each other?
Do we want to keep the provincial championships?
Do we want club championship matches to be played throughout the summer?
Do we want county teams to release players for club games during the inter-county championships?
Do we want county teams to prepare without interference as managers would want?
Do we want county players to play club league games?
Do we want players to be able to play both football and hurling?
Do we want the GAA to have high profile matches throughout the year?
Do we want additional revenue to distribute to clubs?
Do we want a gap of at least two weeks between rounds of the inter-county championships?
Do we want to play off the All-Ireland club championships in the calendar year?
Do we want to deprive club players their day in Croke Park on St. Patrick's Day?
Do we want a club fixture list with certainty?

Because we can't have all of these things. Many of them are in direct conflict.


Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 26, 2017, 12:45:06 AM
That's my point all along. What problem is it we are trying to solve. A lot of people say there is definitely a problem, but there's not much consensus on what it is.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on February 26, 2017, 03:28:45 AM
Why is it now all about giving these teams ''a season''. They are representing their county, they are what WE the club's are putting forward as our best team. if we/they get beat after 1 game then so be it, why did having to accommodate lengthy pre -seasons/preparations for all be the prerogative of a 'season'. The best teams rise to the top most times but the brutal and wonderful but most rewarding end of sport is knock out competition period!!!!!! and its what the legends of our game are made of. Time to get back to the root of our games and stop pandering to the commercial aspect as these people want to solely make money on the back of our games. Unlike many PROFESSIONAL SPORTS that rely on massive income our game will always survive  and us (the people) can actually do something about it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 08:56:02 AM
Where will the Champions League money go?
Presumably more exposure will mean higher sponsorship income
Meaning  players will want more nutritional subsidies
But GF is a mess

Will the Super 8 help Kerry beat Dublin?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Itchy on February 26, 2017, 10:31:32 AM
I read a lot of anger on social media and my own club have been very vocal on twitter condemning these motions. There is a strange disconnect between ordinary members being mostly against (anecdotally) yet delegates and county boards being overwhelmingly for. Leave that aside for now, this is a huge 2 fingers up to the players, both club and county. As a club volunteer and coach I am primarily concerned with the club scene. I can see a strike of sorts on the cards here - in fact I would recommend one!

I would suggest that all players should go to the next monthly meeting of the club and mandate them not to pay their county board fees. If every club in Ireland does that the delegates wont be long listening to them. It seems money rules everything in the GAA and it is sad to see the first president from my own county making such a disgrace of himself overseeing this mess.

Edit - breaking  http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gpa-will-respond-strongly-to-super-8-snub-says-earley-778890.html
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 26, 2017, 11:26:57 AM
When the POA is calling it elitist you know there is something seriously wrong.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 11:50:41 AM
Na uasal agus íseal ach thuas seal agus thíos seal. Especially in GAA. Mayo might get another year or 2 out of the team they have now.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2017, 12:55:13 PM
The more I look at this, the more the "outrage" of club players appears to be built around absolutely nothing.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 26, 2017, 01:11:08 PM
Regardless of how I feel about it myself, it's abundantly clear that a significant proportion of the outrage is just noise, i.e. 'People are giving out about something, I'll join in otherwise I'll feel left out."
It doesn't take much effort to tweet about the 'Grab All Association' and how they're a 'DISGRACE!'.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2017, 01:21:43 PM
Where did this statistic come from? Sounds like nonsense.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/radical-reform-gets-green-light-in-bloodless-congress-victory-35482934.html

Since the qualifiers were introduced in 2001:
Quote
On average it took seven games for a team to win an All-Ireland senior football championship over 21 weeks. The new system would have nine rounds over 18 weeks.

Dublin played their first game on June 4 last year. Their last game was on October 1. That's 18 weeks, and that's with a replay in the final. No team has ever taken 21 weeks to complete their All-Ireland winning programme of fixtures since the qualifiers were introduced, as far as I'm aware.

Tyrone took 20 weeks to win the 2003 All-Ireland (May 18-September 28), and that's the longest time frame I can think of.

Tyrone 2005 and Donegal 2012 took 19 weeks respectively, but most other All-Ireland winning campaigns lasted around 16 weeks.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 01:25:46 PM
September will have to be added to the list of months with nothing interesting happening
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2017, 01:29:43 PM
September will have to be added to the list of months with nothing interesting happening
While I sometimes think the first night of winter is the night University Challenge returns to BBC 2 in the second week of July, I generally think of the night of the All-Ireland football final as the actual first night of winter.

So winter will begin in August, now.

Keith Duggan has a lovely piece in yesterday's Irish Times re. same.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 26, 2017, 01:34:19 PM
It took us 56 weeks to get to the the All-Ireland final in '91.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2017, 01:35:40 PM
It took us 56 weeks to get to the the All-Ireland final in '91.
That was balanced out by a 1 week campaign in 1992.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 26, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
We needed the break.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sam03/05 on February 26, 2017, 03:56:21 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on February 26, 2017, 04:22:42 PM
None of those games are terribly interesting. Dublin could play those teams on an inflatable raft with 14 men and probably still win.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2017, 04:37:38 PM
September will have to be added to the list of months with nothing interesting happening
While I sometimes think the first night of winter is the night University Challenge returns to BBC 2 in the second week of July, I generally think of the night of the All-Ireland football final as the actual first night of winter.

So winter will begin in August, now.

Keith Duggan has a lovely piece in yesterday's Irish Times re. same.

I think the Rose of Tralee will be the official end of summer now
There is such a finality to the end of the football final. It's such a long grey time until TSG cranks up again. 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on February 27, 2017, 10:11:26 AM
Sam 03/05, usually the Dubs get a 1/4 final, semifinal and AI final in Croker
Now they get 2 of their group matches in croker and one away so basically an extra game in Croker before the semi and final meaning an extra large payout for the GAA.

It sounds like the GPA are saying the county players don't want all these extra matches in July & August but were never consulted.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Scarlet on February 27, 2017, 10:12:35 AM
I read a lot of anger on social media and my own club have been very vocal on twitter condemning these motions. There is a strange disconnect between ordinary members being mostly against (anecdotally) yet delegates and county boards being overwhelmingly for. Leave that aside for now, this is a huge 2 fingers up to the players, both club and county. As a club volunteer and coach I am primarily concerned with the club scene. I can see a strike of sorts on the cards here - in fact I would recommend one!

I would suggest that all players should go to the next monthly meeting of the club and mandate them not to pay their county board fees. If every club in Ireland does that the delegates wont be long listening to them. It seems money rules everything in the GAA and it is sad to see the first president from my own county making such a disgrace of himself overseeing this mess.

Edit - breaking  http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gpa-will-respond-strongly-to-super-8-snub-says-earley-778890.html

This is a key key thing. If a county man walks into a local club meeting when prior to this being up decision at county board level and really makes his case the club will be swayed to in turn vote against it at county convention, then it would have been defeated.
There is already a mechanism in the GAA that could have stopped the Super 8s. No point Tweeting anger all day and saying the GAA don't listen when there was no effort to engage in the channels that are already there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 27, 2017, 10:58:55 AM
With most things these days or any kind of change I do think the reaction has been over the top. It won't finish club football or lead to professionalism etc. I said before I do think a split in the season for county players is needed and maybe this is a move towards that. Judging by an earlier draft schedule for next year (I'm not sure how official it was) 30 counties will finish up by the end of July. Does that not lead to enough time for county players to be available for the most important club games?

Club football and scheduling has to be looked at and this definitely adds to the urgency needed to look at it. In Tyrone (county I have most knowledge off) there is 15 club league games followed by relegation/promotion play offs and a straight knockout championship. There is 3 divisions of 16 with division one teams entering senior championship, division 2 intermediate and division 3 junior. County players are available for 10 of the league games plus the play offs and championships. What usually happens is the first 7 or so games with the county players get played by late June/early July and the 5 starred games are used quick enough. This then leads to weeks of inactivity waiting for Tyrone to finish up. Then its a struggle to get the remaining 3 league games played plus the championship and league play off games.

The new system could make it even harder as there will be less room in the calendar in April/May/June for league games. So county boards should be thinking about what would work best.

If it was up to me I'd change the structures in Tyrone. I'd have a league that runs from April to end of July which doesn't determine the championship you play in and the dates are set in stone and played whether county players are free or not. I'd do the leagues on a regional basis split by senior/intermediate so the games are local games with less travelling and play them on a Friday night to suit the club players. A lot of derbies and great prep for the championship with it being run off before it.

Then from start of August have the championship which would have a league element. There's 16 teams at senior level so split them into 2 groups of 8 (some kind of seeding to avoid all strong teams in one group - maybe based on earlier regional leagues). 7 games with county players available for them all. Played until 3rd week in September. Top 4 teams make the quarter finals to be played off in October. Bottom teams relegated to next division and second from bottom involved in a play off (same week quarter finals played).

County players would be available for all games that determine your championship status and its less games to fit in with them than the current requirement. There'd be regular football for club players from April to July with lots of local derbies acting as great prep for the championship and a good stand alone comp. And the benefit of Friday night games to avoid taking up the weekends.

The one big potential flaw in my system is if Tyrone got to the All Ireland final in 3rd week of August. But surely for most counties thinking outside the box a little could lead to a far better structure and less reliance on county fixtures to determine games. And most counties wont get to the All Ireland final so will have a minimum of 3 months to get games played with county players.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: LeoMc on February 27, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
With most things these days or any kind of change I do think the reaction has been over the top. It won't finish club football or lead to professionalism etc. I said before I do think a split in the season for county players is needed and maybe this is a move towards that. Judging by an earlier draft schedule for next year (I'm not sure how official it was) 30 counties will finish up by the end of July. Does that not lead to enough time for county players to be available for the most important club games?

Club football and scheduling has to be looked at and this definitely adds to the urgency needed to look at it. In Tyrone (county I have most knowledge off) there is 15 club league games followed by relegation/promotion play offs and a straight knockout championship. There is 3 divisions of 16 with division one teams entering senior championship, division 2 intermediate and division 3 junior. County players are available for 10 of the league games plus the play offs and championships. What usually happens is the first 7 or so games with the county players get played by late June/early July and the 5 starred games are used quick enough. This then leads to weeks of inactivity waiting for Tyrone to finish up. Then its a struggle to get the remaining 3 league games played plus the championship and league play off games.

The new system could make it even harder as there will be less room in the calendar in April/May/June for league games. So county boards should be thinking about what would work best.

If it was up to me I'd change the structures in Tyrone. I'd have a league that runs from April to end of July which doesn't determine the championship you play in and the dates are set in stone and played whether county players are free or not. I'd do the leagues on a regional basis split by senior/intermediate so the games are local games with less travelling and play them on a Friday night to suit the club players. A lot of derbies and great prep for the championship with it being run off before it.

Then from start of August have the championship which would have a league element. There's 16 teams at senior level so split them into 2 groups of 8 (some kind of seeding to avoid all strong teams in one group - maybe based on earlier regional leagues). 7 games with county players available for them all. Played until 3rd week in September. Top 4 teams make the quarter finals to be played off in October. Bottom teams relegated to next division and second from bottom involved in a play off (same week quarter finals played).

County players would be available for all games that determine your championship status and its less games to fit in with them than the current requirement. There'd be regular football for club players from April to July with lots of local derbies acting as great prep for the championship and a good stand alone comp. And the benefit of Friday night games to avoid taking up the weekends.

The one big potential flaw in my system is if Tyrone got to the All Ireland final in 3rd week of August. But surely for most counties thinking outside the box a little could lead to a far better structure and less reliance on county fixtures to determine games. And most counties wont get to the All Ireland final so will have a minimum of 3 months to get games played with county players.
Why ruin a perfectly good championship by turning it into a league and the league into a series of meaningless friendlies?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Norf Tyrone on February 27, 2017, 01:42:12 PM
How many committee people were asked by their Club their pref prior to the vote so that the County knew which way to cast.

I was asked re Super 8s but no other motion.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 27, 2017, 02:14:19 PM
With most things these days or any kind of change I do think the reaction has been over the top. It won't finish club football or lead to professionalism etc. I said before I do think a split in the season for county players is needed and maybe this is a move towards that. Judging by an earlier draft schedule for next year (I'm not sure how official it was) 30 counties will finish up by the end of July. Does that not lead to enough time for county players to be available for the most important club games?

Club football and scheduling has to be looked at and this definitely adds to the urgency needed to look at it. In Tyrone (county I have most knowledge off) there is 15 club league games followed by relegation/promotion play offs and a straight knockout championship. There is 3 divisions of 16 with division one teams entering senior championship, division 2 intermediate and division 3 junior. County players are available for 10 of the league games plus the play offs and championships. What usually happens is the first 7 or so games with the county players get played by late June/early July and the 5 starred games are used quick enough. This then leads to weeks of inactivity waiting for Tyrone to finish up. Then its a struggle to get the remaining 3 league games played plus the championship and league play off games.

The new system could make it even harder as there will be less room in the calendar in April/May/June for league games. So county boards should be thinking about what would work best.

If it was up to me I'd change the structures in Tyrone. I'd have a league that runs from April to end of July which doesn't determine the championship you play in and the dates are set in stone and played whether county players are free or not. I'd do the leagues on a regional basis split by senior/intermediate so the games are local games with less travelling and play them on a Friday night to suit the club players. A lot of derbies and great prep for the championship with it being run off before it.

Then from start of August have the championship which would have a league element. There's 16 teams at senior level so split them into 2 groups of 8 (some kind of seeding to avoid all strong teams in one group - maybe based on earlier regional leagues). 7 games with county players available for them all. Played until 3rd week in September. Top 4 teams make the quarter finals to be played off in October. Bottom teams relegated to next division and second from bottom involved in a play off (same week quarter finals played).

County players would be available for all games that determine your championship status and its less games to fit in with them than the current requirement. There'd be regular football for club players from April to July with lots of local derbies acting as great prep for the championship and a good stand alone comp. And the benefit of Friday night games to avoid taking up the weekends.

The one big potential flaw in my system is if Tyrone got to the All Ireland final in 3rd week of August. But surely for most counties thinking outside the box a little could lead to a far better structure and less reliance on county fixtures to determine games. And most counties wont get to the All Ireland final so will have a minimum of 3 months to get games played with county players.
Why ruin a perfectly good championship by turning it into a league and the league into a series of meaningless friendlies?

1) To give the players regular games through the season.
2) To allow club players to know when their games will be played.
3) To allow county players to play in every match that determines what championship a club is in which seems fair.
4) To reduce the number of games county players have to play for their clubs whilst not disadvantaging their clubs
5) To ensure the club season finishes earlier than currently.

I'm not sure the above system would ruin the championship. Games could be spread out across the weekend to give maximum exposure. The risk would be that clubs wouldn't take the initial league serious. But if its played independently with local matches and before the championship surely you would get buy in from the clubs. Currently there is plenty of meaningless games in the league especially towards the end after the championship is completed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: omagh_gael on February 27, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
One of the stupidest elements of our current system is that only one provincial game is played on each weekend. Absolutely ridiculous how long it takes to run off these competitions. For example, the Ulster should be ran off as follows:

Weekend One: Preliminary round

Weekend two: Saturday Evening QF1
                      Sunday QF2

Weekend three: Saturday Evening QF3
                      Sunday QF4

Weekend four: Sunday SF1 (QF1 v QF2)
                     
Weekend five: Sunday SF2 (QF3 v QF4)

Weekend Seven: Sunday Ulster Final

The 2016 Ulster championship started on the 15th May and finished on the 17th July. The above shaves two weeks off this that could be used to shorten the county calendar or to free up two full weekends of guaranteed club football across Ulster.
 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 02:29:39 PM
Omagh gael, you know that that is what has been voted through or are you just applauding that it has been passed?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 27, 2017, 02:34:25 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what


This line made me smile! Do you honestly think that they (the GAA Hierarchy)will have Dublin playing outside Croker in the Championship? You are really naive if you think that. Think about it? This has more games in Croker written all over it!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 02:41:08 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what


This line made me smile! Do you honestly think that they (the GAA Hierarchy)will have Dublin playing outside Croker in the Championship? You are really naive if you think that. Think about it? This has more games in Croker written all over it!
While some cynicism is expected in GAA land, do you genuinely think that Dublin won't play their third game in the group outside of Croke Park, after playing the first two there?

They played outside Croker last year and will do so again this year so it's already happening.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 02:50:40 PM
One of the stupidest elements of our current system is that only one provincial game is played on each weekend. Absolutely ridiculous how long it takes to run off these competitions. For example, the Ulster should be ran off as follows:

Weekend One: Preliminary round

Weekend two: Saturday Evening QF1
                      Sunday QF2

Weekend three: Saturday Evening QF3
                      Sunday QF4

Weekend four: Sunday SF1 (QF1 v QF2)
                     
Weekend five: Sunday SF2 (QF3 v QF4)

Weekend Seven: Sunday Ulster Final

The 2016 Ulster championship started on the 15th May and finished on the 17th July. The above shaves two weeks off this that could be used to shorten the county calendar or to free up two full weekends of guaranteed club football across Ulster.
 

I would suggest that across all provinces, the preliminary rounds should be played across one weekend.

Then the quarter-finals across two weekends, and the semi-finals across two.

Then the provincial finals across two.

That's a total of seven weeks to run off every provincial championship game.

For 2018, the championship would start on the weekend of April 28th/29th, with the second two provincial finals (Leinster and Ulster) on Sunday June 10th.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 02:54:19 PM
One of the stupidest elements of our current system is that only one provincial game is played on each weekend. Absolutely ridiculous how long it takes to run off these competitions. For example, the Ulster should be ran off as follows:

Weekend One: Preliminary round

Weekend two: Saturday Evening QF1
                      Sunday QF2

Weekend three: Saturday Evening QF3
                      Sunday QF4

Weekend four: Sunday SF1 (QF1 v QF2)
                     
Weekend five: Sunday SF2 (QF3 v QF4)

Weekend Seven: Sunday Ulster Final

The 2016 Ulster championship started on the 15th May and finished on the 17th July. The above shaves two weeks off this that could be used to shorten the county calendar or to free up two full weekends of guaranteed club football across Ulster.
 

I would suggest that across all provinces, the preliminary rounds should be played across one weekend.

Then the quarter-finals across two weekends, and the semi-finals across two.

Then the provincial finals across two.

That's a total of seven weeks to run off every provincial championship game.

For 2018, the championship would start on the weekend of April 28th/29th, with the second two provincial finals (Leinster and Ulster) on Sunday June 10th.
Seriously lads, this is what's in the proposal. Why are so many commenting without reading. The hysteria is bad enough without looking for what's already been agreed upon.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on February 27, 2017, 03:00:20 PM
I read a lot of anger on social media and my own club have been very vocal on twitter condemning these motions. There is a strange disconnect between ordinary members being mostly against (anecdotally) yet delegates and county boards being overwhelmingly for. Leave that aside for now, this is a huge 2 fingers up to the players, both club and county. As a club volunteer and coach I am primarily concerned with the club scene. I can see a strike of sorts on the cards here - in fact I would recommend one!

I would suggest that all players should go to the next monthly meeting of the club and mandate them not to pay their county board fees. If every club in Ireland does that the delegates wont be long listening to them. It seems money rules everything in the GAA and it is sad to see the first president from my own county making such a disgrace of himself overseeing this mess.

Edit - breaking  http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gpa-will-respond-strongly-to-super-8-snub-says-earley-778890.html

That is probably the best idea I heard yet. I have no doubt that the main reason for the proposals getting through is the promise of additional money back to the counties from the Super 8 TV deal that can be sold to Sky/RTE. Cash strapped counties, many of whom are in large debt, will be seduced by the promise of a few extra quid which makes their jobs an awful lot easier. They are already under considerable financial strain and this super 8 in their minds will ease the problem somewhat. Ultimately the cash strapped counties pass the debt onto the clubs by way of increased fees, levies and imposed fundraising. If clubs refused to co-operate with unity then it would be groundhog day and the hierarchy in positions of power may finally be forced to sit up and listen.

Already, a lot of people are shrugging their shoulders as if to say, it's in now so lets just work with it. Before long it will just be another bone of contention while the main over riding issues have still to be properly addressed. I feel as if it will take something a lot more dramatic such as you suggest to ever bring about the change that is urgently required. 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 03:01:10 PM
For Dublin (as a Dublin supporter), this would mean a potential list of fixtures for 2018 would look like this:

January: O'Byrne Cup
February 4: NFL Round 1
February 11: NFL Round 2
February 25: NFL Round 3
March 4: NFL Round 4
March 11: NFL Round 5
March 25: NFL Round 6
April 1: NFL Round 7
April 8: NFL final

May 13: Leinster quarter-final
May 27: Leinster semi-final
June 10: Leinster final
July 1: Super 8 Round 1
July 7: Super 8 Round 2
July 15: Super 8 Round 3
August 5: All-Ireland semi-final
August 26: All-Ireland final
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 03:09:51 PM

Seriously lads, this is what's in the proposal. Why are so many commenting without reading. The hysteria is bad enough without looking for what's already been agreed upon.

As far as I'm aware, nothing has been agreed upon as regards when the provincial championships will start, or the gaps between matches.

Flesh also has to be put upon the bones of how it will affect the hurling championship, ie. will the two All-Ireland hurling semi-finals be played on the same weekend - hurling people may not be happy with losing a high profile weekend through no fault of their own.

Remember, the hurling championship remains unchanged in format, and there will still be replays. This then can have a knock on impact on football.

There are a number of questions that are still to be answered.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on February 27, 2017, 03:15:19 PM
If THIS HAD OF BEEN IN LAST YEAR TYRONE WOULD HAVE BEEN AWAY TO CLARE AND HOME TO TIPPERARY - NOT MUCH APPEAL IN THOSE GAMES - WOULD BE LUCKY TO GET 3000 AT THEM...........
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 27, 2017, 03:25:50 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what


This line made me smile! Do you honestly think that they (the GAA Hierarchy)will have Dublin playing outside Croker in the Championship? You are really naive if you think that. Think about it? This has more games in Croker written all over it!
While some cynicism is expected in GAA land, do you genuinely think that Dublin won't play their third game in the group outside of Croke Park, after playing the first two there?

They played outside Croker last year and will do so again this year so it's already happening.

 The GAA in 2014 would not let Mayo /Kerry replay be played in Croker just in case the Dublin/Donegal semi final game ended in a draw!

Corporate Boxes, Sky TV, Dublin Media, Dublin fans, Sponsors, etc will bay for games in the Capital. They might let Dublin down to the sticks if the game is a dead rubber. Which more likely would be the third game.

This is a Corporate entity we are dealing with. They are interested in maximising making money. They care little about the supporter or the players involved. They are just entities to be used in maximising profits. The (fake) Amateur umbrella they hide under is convenient for high moral ground when standing against other sports.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 03:26:36 PM

Seriously lads, this is what's in the proposal. Why are so many commenting without reading. The hysteria is bad enough without looking for what's already been agreed upon.

As far as I'm aware, nothing has been agreed upon as regards when the provincial championships will start, or the gaps between matches.

Flesh also has to be put upon the bones of how it will affect the hurling championship, ie. will the two All-Ireland hurling semi-finals be played on the same weekend - hurling people may not be happy with losing a high profile weekend through no fault of their own.

Remember, the hurling championship remains unchanged in format, and there will still be replays. This then can have a knock on impact on football.

There are a number of questions that are still to be answered.
Well it might need to be rubber-stamped but it is all outlined in the proposal document.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: omagh_gael on February 27, 2017, 03:36:00 PM

Seriously lads, this is what's in the proposal. Why are so many commenting without reading. The hysteria is bad enough without looking for what's already been agreed upon.

As far as I'm aware, nothing has been agreed upon as regards when the provincial championships will start, or the gaps between matches.

Flesh also has to be put upon the bones of how it will affect the hurling championship, ie. will the two All-Ireland hurling semi-finals be played on the same weekend - hurling people may not be happy with losing a high profile weekend through no fault of their own.

Remember, the hurling championship remains unchanged in format, and there will still be replays. This then can have a knock on impact on football.

There are a number of questions that are still to be answered.
Well it might need to be rubber-stamped but it is all outlined in the proposal document.

Was this included in the super 8 proposal? If so I missed the element that pertained to compressing the provincials. Do you've a link?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
HAD OF BEEN ..

Black Card.

Does the extra time provision not apply to the hurley shtuff? ?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 04:01:33 PM

Seriously lads, this is what's in the proposal. Why are so many commenting without reading. The hysteria is bad enough without looking for what's already been agreed upon.

As far as I'm aware, nothing has been agreed upon as regards when the provincial championships will start, or the gaps between matches.

Flesh also has to be put upon the bones of how it will affect the hurling championship, ie. will the two All-Ireland hurling semi-finals be played on the same weekend - hurling people may not be happy with losing a high profile weekend through no fault of their own.

Remember, the hurling championship remains unchanged in format, and there will still be replays. This then can have a knock on impact on football.

There are a number of questions that are still to be answered.
Well it might need to be rubber-stamped but it is all outlined in the proposal document.

The proposal document is very much a bare bones document.

Apart from stating that the All-Ireland finals will take place on unspecified dates in August (which is actually Motion 5, not Motion 4), it states very little about scheduling.

Apart from its complete lack of information about provincial scheduling, another thing it doesn't state, is whether there will still be a two week gap between the hurling and football finals, or whether they will be on successive weeks.

This is all Motion 4 on the official document says about scheduling. Motion 5 deals with moving the All-Ireland finals to August.

Although it's widely believed the All-Ireland football semi-finals will take place on the same weekend and that the three rounds of the Super 8 will take place on successive weekends, I don't see anything official about it.

http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/TheGAA/Publications/13/61/46/AnChomhdh%C3%A1ilBhliant%C3%BAil2017-R%C3%BAindonChomhdh%C3%A1il_English.pdf

(1) Scheduling
Qualifier Games shall be played on Saturdays/Sundays as deemed
appropriate by the Central Competitions Control Committee, but
the Schedule of Games shall avoid conflict with the Provincial
Championships schedules (including Replays), and shall also allow
sufficient dates for Club Championship fixtures. Consideration
shall be given to the dual involvement of Counties in both Hurling
and Football, and, where feasible, avoid the same weekend.
Provincial Runners-Up shall be allowed, where feasible, a
thirteen-day gap between their Provincial Final and their
participation in the All-Ireland Qualifier Series.
All Games in each Round of the All-Ireland Qualifier Series shall
be played over not more than two consecutive weekends, save in
exceptional circumstances.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 04:20:27 PM
Omagh gael, the proposal was all the one until they decided to split it out into three, probably fearing that the Super 8 might stop the whole thing from getting through. This is the link to the original document which has been in circulation for several months now http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf

Appendix 2 shows how they saw the new schedule.

Sid, are you talking about a different document as the hurling schedule is contained here too as well as the provincials.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 27, 2017, 06:57:21 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what


This line made me smile! Do you honestly think that they (the GAA Hierarchy)will have Dublin playing outside Croker in the Championship? You are really naive if you think that. Think about it? This has more games in Croker written all over it!

That's complete nonsense. Talk about fake news!! It's in the motion that each team gets one home game so it's impossible for the Dublin to play all three games at home unless the home team gives up home advantage and I doubt many would do that. In fairness, lads are giving out about this on numerous fronts but giving out about something that won't happen is pretty daft.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 27, 2017, 06:58:28 PM
HAD OF BEEN ..

Black Card.

Does the extra time provision not apply to the hurley shtuff? ?

ET applies to both codes.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2017, 07:00:30 PM
It'll be the GAA vs a lot of players
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on February 27, 2017, 07:12:15 PM
A Lot this is a high Pissing Contest  or a battle for control for the Gaa depending on how dramatic you are .
The only real objection the CPA and GPA have to the super 8 /championship changes wass that they were ignored in the formulation of it . If the CPA had come up with it and got it through congress it would have been seen as a massive coup .
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 27, 2017, 07:14:04 PM
Surely these proposals will actually be good for club football
Yes there will be a lot of county games in July / August
But that's no different from now. ( with most of the weaker counties knocked out by that stage anyway) 
The fact that the season is over the last week in August
Allows the club season to effectively be played in September / October / November
Surely that is a much better alternative than what's in place now.

Also the Dubs will have to play two championship games away from Croke Park
Which will add a lot of interesting games. The likes of Kerry won't have a cake walk to the
Final every year oi they had to go away to Ballybofey or somewhere.
The only thing that's missing is atwo tiered structure with the second tier  playing final at All Ire final.
Overall I think it's actually a better deal for club players
As the club championships will take place in sept/ Oct/ Dec no matter what


This line made me smile! Do you honestly think that they (the GAA Hierarchy)will have Dublin playing outside Croker in the Championship? You are really naive if you think that. Think about it? This has more games in Croker written all over it!

That's complete nonsense. Talk about fake news!! It's in the motion that each team gets one home game so it's impossible for the Dublin to play all three games at home unless the home team gives up home advantage and I doubt many would do that. In fairness, lads are giving out about this on numerous fronts but giving out about something that won't happen is pretty daft.

They played a first round Leinster Championship game. The GAA in 2014 would not let Mayo /Kerry replay be played in Croker just in case the Dublin/Donegal semi final game ended in a draw!

Corporate Boxes, Sky TV, Dublin Media, Dublin fans, Sponsors, etc will bay for games in the Capital. They might let Dublin down to the sticks if the game is a dead rubber. Which more likely would be the third game.

This is a Corporate entity we are dealing with. They are interested in maximising making money. They care little about the supporter or the players involved. They are just entities to be used in maximising profits. The (fake) Amateur umbrella they hide under is convenient for high moral ground when standing against other sports.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2017, 07:39:09 PM
Omagh gael, the proposal was all the one until they decided to split it out into three, probably fearing that the Super 8 might stop the whole thing from getting through. This is the link to the original document which has been in circulation for several months now http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf

Appendix 2 shows how they saw the new schedule.

Sid, are you talking about a different document as the hurling schedule is contained here too as well as the provincials.

Sorry, I hadn't seen that document.

I do see a weakness straight off in the proposed schedule.

Group 1 of the Super 8 gets a week's rest after the first fixture, whereas Group 2 doesn't - they have to play for three consecutive weeks.

As both All-Ireland semi-finals are to be played on the same weekend, which is the weekend immediately following the conclusion of the Super 8, this would mean that the teams that qualify for the semi-finals from Group 2 would be playing for the fourth week in a row, whereas their opponents would only be playing for the third week in a row.

That's a clear advantage to teams in Group 1, which coincidentally, Dublin are in.  ;D




Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2017, 08:03:53 PM
Why can't they play the 2 groups the same weekend - 2 games Saturday, 2 Sunday.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 27, 2017, 08:12:41 PM
Omagh gael, the proposal was all the one until they decided to split it out into three, probably fearing that the Super 8 might stop the whole thing from getting through. This is the link to the original document which has been in circulation for several months now http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf

Appendix 2 shows how they saw the new schedule.

Sid, are you talking about a different document as the hurling schedule is contained here too as well as the provincials.

Sorry, I hadn't seen that document.

I do see a weakness straight off in the proposed schedule.

Group 1 of the Super 8 gets a week's rest after the first fixture, whereas Group 2 doesn't - they have to play for three consecutive weeks.

As both All-Ireland semi-finals are to be played on the same weekend, which is the weekend immediately following the conclusion of the Super 8, this would mean that the teams that qualify for the semi-finals from Group 2 would be playing for the fourth week in a row, whereas their opponents would only be playing for the third week in a row.

That's a clear advantage to teams in Group 1, which coincidentally, Dublin are in.  ;D
Not having a go at you, but I'd say you're in the majority of posters that haven't read the document.

Moyles and Burns debating it on Newtalk now and it's civil but highlights the depths of problems that exist; so many people and groups of people with a seemingly endless list of issues.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 27, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
In fairness to Jarlath, I'd agree with him about the GPA dropping the ball on this one.
Had months to consult their membership and thrash out some of the issues.
Instead, just asked them for a straight 'Yes/No' answer a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 27, 2017, 10:50:23 PM
The discussion here is mirrored nationally and just underlines why congress were right to pass this. There is no proposal that will make everyone happy and be get passed in congress. Given the need to retain the provincials then the super 8's is as good an option as any. Reading the players criticism on twitter was revealing because solving some players issues would only make other players issues worse. Again, highlighting the impossible position the GAA are in.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 27, 2017, 11:03:17 PM
God, the amount of Arse licking on this thread would make you sick. This is the beginning of semi-pro. What Dublin are already. As I said earlier. Dublin will play all their games at home in Croker. The spin (to use the pun) of them travelling to Ballybofey is for those on cloud cocoo land. Asking lads who have jobs to tog out nearly every week in July and August is really taking advantage. But hey Sky sports will be happy and corporate boxes have to be used and abused.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 27, 2017, 11:36:54 PM
God, the amount of Arse licking on this thread would make you sick. This is the beginning of semi-pro. What Dublin are already. As I said earlier. Dublin will play all their games at home in Croker. The spin (to use the pun) of them travelling to Ballybofey is for those on cloud cocoo land. Asking lads who have jobs to tog out nearly every week in July and August is really taking advantage. But hey Sky sports will be happy and corporate boxes have to be used and abused.

And the amount of unfounded moaning is fairly sickening too. There's been lads on this boarding heralding every change as the start of professionalism in the GAA and they were, like you are now, wrong. The numbers don't add up.

Jesus, complaining about lads playing football must take the biscuit. Do lads not play games every week in the league, or do they not work in the spring? They'll play and then do two easy training sessions and play again. Ideal for many young fit athletes.

It's clear there are a lot of lads who will complain and throw unfounded criticisms based on their own unsupported views. Lets see how this works out and if it's the world ending disaster some here believe it will be then we can go back to the current format.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: screenexile on February 28, 2017, 01:05:22 AM
God, the amount of Arse licking on this thread would make you sick. This is the beginning of semi-pro. What Dublin are already. As I said earlier. Dublin will play all their games at home in Croker. The spin (to use the pun) of them travelling to Ballybofey is for those on cloud cocoo land. Asking lads who have jobs to tog out nearly every week in July and August is really taking advantage. But hey Sky sports will be happy and corporate boxes have to be used and abused.

And the amount of unfounded moaning is fairly sickening too. There's been lads on this boarding heralding every change as the start of professionalism in the GAA and they were, like you are now, wrong. The numbers don't add up.

Jesus, complaining about lads playing football must take the biscuit. Do lads not play games every week in the league, or do they not work in the spring? They'll play and then do two easy training sessions and play again. Ideal for many young fit athletes.

It's clear there are a lot of lads who will complain and throw unfounded criticisms based on their own unsupported views. Lets see how this works out and if it's the world ending disaster some here believe it will be then we can go back to the current format.

f**k the lads playing 3 weeks in a row what about Sligo/Carlow/Antrim/Waterford who have a real chance of playing 2 games within 3:4 weeks and then none in the height of summer?

Interesting to note it's the Dubs mostly in favour of this... hilarious what passes for democracy these days GAA is a worse system than the Electoral College FFS! Members of our club certainly weren't balloted on the Super 8 issue and I'd wager very few clubs around the country were either!

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 08:49:51 AM
You're proving my position by again and it's far from just Dubs supporting this. But you ask about Waterford and the like, ok what's your solution then? Duffy, nor anyone else said this was the solution to all our issues but I'd like to hear how we can keep the provincials and provide the weaker teams more games, in the height of summer no less???

So, screenexile let's hear your proposal that provides the weaker teams meaningful games in the height of summer and gives the clubs more time with their IC players as well.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 09:18:36 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Hound on February 28, 2017, 09:19:45 AM

f**k the lads playing 3 weeks in a row what about Sligo/Carlow/Antrim/Waterford who have a real chance of playing 2 games within 3:4 weeks and then none in the height of summer?

But these counties want to keep the provincial system, and they want to stay in the All Ireland series, rather than have a B/Intermediate competition.

So yes, the weakest teams will stay as they are. No change from the current system, apart from the 2nd game is likely to be played a bit earlier.

A minimum of two championship games. And if that results in two losses, then it's back to their clubs to play club football in the height of the summer and the club footballers are happy that their competitions can proceed.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ballinaman on February 28, 2017, 09:30:01 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 09:32:51 AM
God, the amount of Arse licking on this thread would make you sick. This is the beginning of semi-pro. What Dublin are already. As I said earlier. Dublin will play all their games at home in Croker. The spin (to use the pun) of them travelling to Ballybofey is for those on cloud cocoo land. Asking lads who have jobs to tog out nearly every week in July and August is really taking advantage. But hey Sky sports will be happy and corporate boxes have to be used and abused.

And the amount of unfounded moaning is fairly sickening too. There's been lads on this boarding heralding every change as the start of professionalism in the GAA and they were, like you are now, wrong. The numbers don't add up.

Jesus, complaining about lads playing football must take the biscuit. Do lads not play games every week in the league, or do they not work in the spring? They'll play and then do two easy training sessions and play again. Ideal for many young fit athletes.

It's clear there are a lot of lads who will complain and throw unfounded criticisms based on their own unsupported views. Lets see how this works out and if it's the world ending disaster some here believe it will be then we can go back to the current format.
From the Bunker, I'll restrain myself to say that I just disagree with you.

Giving out about lads playing every week. Isn't that what they bloody want? More games, less training.

You genuinely think that Dublin, after playing their first two Super 8 games, are going to play in Croke Park again? I don't.

And as for your arse licking comment. As the  young girls say, I just can't.................
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 09:43:01 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 09:49:30 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 28, 2017, 10:04:42 AM
Quote
It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult.

Actually it makes it easier for Dublin to get to the final, they can now afford a bad day after Leinster and still have a chance, whereas a bad day in the quarters and they were gone.

Anyway I am all for change, however let's be brutally honest, if any county with a county ground capacity less than 15k have Dublin in the group stages not a hope in hell they will be allowed play Dublin at home, not a hope in hell.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 10:08:49 AM
Quote
It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult.

Actually it makes it easier for Dublin to get to the final, they can now afford a bad day after Leinster and still have a chance, whereas a bad day in the quarters and they were gone.

Anyway I am all for change, however let's be brutally honest, if any county with a county ground capacity less than 15k have Dublin in the group stages not a hope in hell they will be allowed play Dublin at home, not a hope in hell.
But would it be moved to Croke Park?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Dinny Breen on February 28, 2017, 10:20:58 AM
Quote
It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult.

Actually it makes it easier for Dublin to get to the final, they can now afford a bad day after Leinster and still have a chance, whereas a bad day in the quarters and they were gone.

Anyway I am all for change, however let's be brutally honest, if any county with a county ground capacity less than 15k have Dublin in the group stages not a hope in hell they will be allowed play Dublin at home, not a hope in hell.
But would it be moved to Croke Park?

Hard to say, if a Leinster county probably, more than likely a neutral venue, Thurles, Limerick, Kilkenny or Clones. It would still give Dublin 2 home games and 1 neutral. All teams are equal some are just more equal than others.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 10:29:43 AM
Quote
It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult.

Actually it makes it easier for Dublin to get to the final, they can now afford a bad day after Leinster and still have a chance, whereas a bad day in the quarters and they were gone.

Anyway I am all for change, however let's be brutally honest, if any county with a county ground capacity less than 15k have Dublin in the group stages not a hope in hell they will be allowed play Dublin at home, not a hope in hell.
But would it be moved to Croke Park?

Hard to say, if a Leinster county probably, more than likely a neutral venue, Thurles, Limerick, Kilkenny or Clones. It would still give Dublin 2 home games and 1 neutral. All teams are equal some are just more equal than others.
Well my point was that they wouldn't play their third game in Croke Park. It's clearly stated in the proposal that grounds would be subject to approval by the CCCC.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 10:38:43 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: LeoMc on February 28, 2017, 10:44:30 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).

Bringing the games forward addresses this. Even clubs in successful counties get September back. Those outside the 8 have July / August for their club games also.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 10:49:25 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.

A tiered championship is the answer. Yes teams always want to play in the Sam Maguire but if they want more meaningful games then a structure similar to the hurling championship must be introduced in football. Earn your right to compete.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 28, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
Quote
It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult.

Actually it makes it easier for Dublin to get to the final, they can now afford a bad day after Leinster and still have a chance, whereas a bad day in the quarters and they were gone.

Anyway I am all for change, however let's be brutally honest, if any county with a county ground capacity less than 15k have Dublin in the group stages not a hope in hell they will be allowed play Dublin at home, not a hope in hell.

First paragraph bang on Dinny. Come to think of it your second one is too. I don't believe they will be forced to play in CP though.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 10:52:25 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).

Bringing the games forward addresses this. Even clubs in successful counties get September back. Those outside the 8 have July / August for their club games also.

All but two counties had September anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 10:54:18 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.

A tiered championship is the answer. Yes teams always want to play in the Sam Maguire but if they want more meaningful games then a structure similar to the hurling championship must be introduced in football. Earn your right to compete.
Fine, but that won't pass at congress even with the 60% pass rate so, with respect, it's fairly pointless in 2017. Maybe in three years time it might be a runner but we're dealing with, and criticising, what's been passed in 2017.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 11:05:10 AM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.

A tiered championship is the answer. Yes teams always want to play in the Sam Maguire but if they want more meaningful games then a structure similar to the hurling championship must be introduced in football. Earn your right to compete.
Fine, but that won't pass at congress even with the 60% pass rate so, with respect, it's fairly pointless in 2017. Maybe in three years time it might be a runner but we're dealing with, and criticising, what's been passed in 2017.

I agree with that. However in three years time there will never be an appetite for the tiered system. If it had been treated the same way in hurling the structure would never have changed either. The decision had to be taken despite the protests.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 11:09:07 AM
Despite the players' protests? Who's in favour of such a system?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 11:12:04 AM
Despite the players' protests? Who's in favour of such a system?

Not player protests in hurling, it was more the county boards.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 11:21:27 AM
Despite the players' protests? Who's in favour of such a system?

Not player protests in hurling, it was more the county boards.
But we're talking about the football system in there here and now. I'm not sure what stakeholders are behind such a move, other than the media who play the non-elitist card but who I suspect want the weaker teams out of their sight so the can focus on the big guns.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 12:17:45 PM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.

A tiered championship is the answer. Yes teams always want to play in the Sam Maguire but if they want more meaningful games then a structure similar to the hurling championship must be introduced in football. Earn your right to compete.
Fine, but that won't pass at congress even with the 60% pass rate so, with respect, it's fairly pointless in 2017. Maybe in three years time it might be a runner but we're dealing with, and criticising, what's been passed in 2017.

I agree with that. However in three years time there will never be an appetite for the tiered system. If it had been treated the same way in hurling the structure would never have changed either. The decision had to be taken despite the protests.

You don't know what people will want in 3 years time and you don't know the tiered system will work in football. There's fairly clear tiers in hurling. Finally, Croke Park are getting abused to the high hilt for this fairly modest change and you thing they should have forced (how I don't know) a proposal through that would have had little or no support in congress?

As Esmarelda keeps pointing out, this was the only realistic change that was likely to get through congress. The more radical changes that most agree we need won't get through in one go. So criticisms have to be tempered by that reality if they are to be valid.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 12:26:23 PM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).
I know. So what do you do? I see the Wicklow manager saying his players should go on strike because they only got two games last summer. The Wicklow club players will be able to play all of July, August and September next year. How do you keep everyone happy? What does the Wicklow manager want so that he gets more games? A second-tier championship that they can compete in? Nope, the very players he says are being treated like dogs don't want it.

So many complaints, so few answers.

A tiered championship is the answer. Yes teams always want to play in the Sam Maguire but if they want more meaningful games then a structure similar to the hurling championship must be introduced in football. Earn your right to compete.
Fine, but that won't pass at congress even with the 60% pass rate so, with respect, it's fairly pointless in 2017. Maybe in three years time it might be a runner but we're dealing with, and criticising, what's been passed in 2017.

I agree with that. However in three years time there will never be an appetite for the tiered system. If it had been treated the same way in hurling the structure would never have changed either. The decision had to be taken despite the protests.

You don't know what people will want in 3 years time and you don't know the tiered system will work in football. There's fairly clear tiers in hurling. Finally, Croke Park are getting abused to the high hilt for this fairly modest change and you thing they should have forced (how I don't know) a proposal through that would have had little or no support in congress?

As Esmarelda keeps pointing out, this was the only realistic change that was likely to get through congress. The more radical changes that most agree we need won't get through in one go. So criticisms have to be tempered by that reality if they are to be valid.

I suppose if you want to cut to the chase you'll probably find that it has a lot to do with an up and coming SKY deal  ;) lets not be naive
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 12:35:40 PM
I don't know if that's true but this super 8 also address some issues that needed addressing anyway.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 12:43:28 PM
I don't know if that's true but this super 8 also address some issues that needed addressing anyway.

What issues are being addressed ? I'm at a loss.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on February 28, 2017, 12:44:28 PM
This is what the recent changes (last 2 years) will mean for club football in Tyrone in 2018:

County minors are not allowed to play for the club seniors until Tyrone are beat in minor championship (somewhere between end of May and end of August)
County minors are not allowed to train with the club at minor or senior level for the same period
17 year olds are not allowed to play for the club seniors/reserves
County Under 20s will be preparing for a summer championship match thus not training with the club and probably missing games for friendlies etc at the managers wishes.
County seniors will be playing O'Fiach Cup, McKenna Cup, National League, Ulster Championship and Super 8s if they qualify as expected. All of this has to be squeezed in by end of August.
In Tyrone there are usually 5 starred games to accommodate county players and they then play the rest of the club league games. Where are these club games going to be fitted into a compressed schedule? There wont be much of a gap between end of league and start of Ulster championship and between Ulster championship games and then on to qualifiers/super 8s.
The answer is there will be very little if any opportunity to play for the club.

For people who say that these proposals will help club football I think you don't understand the reality of the situation. Personally I have no time for the county scene any more but I know lots of people who go to county games that have no allegiance to any club. The fixtures makers in Tyrone already have a nightmare, we don't know the dates of any league or championship matches in any divisions and normally don't know what is happening from one week to the next. 2018 is going to be an absolute nightmare and it is only when we are going through it that people will realise the extent of the problem.

Anybody who can come back to me during/after the 2018 club season in Tyrone and can tell me any different to the nightmare scenario above I will be glad to say I was wrong.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 28, 2017, 12:48:12 PM
MYTHS

That super 8 is for the benefit of Club football.
That it is for the benefit of the weaker counties.
That it is for the benefit of the players.
That it makes it harder for Kerry/Dublin to win AI titles.
That Dublin would be asked to play outside Croker in Super 8.

REALITIES


Croker needs more big games to satisfy Vendors, Corporate Boxes, Sky TV, Dublin Media.
Dublin will only play Super 8 game outside Croker if game is a dead Rubber.
Leading counties Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone/Donegal/Mayo now get three chances.
To play games week in week out over the months of July and August needs huge player resources.
There is the cost on the fan?
The disruption of Holidays.
It's alright for Zulu and his fellow Dubs who will have all this on his doorstep with little peripheral cost or time.
How many backdoor routes can you create for to get a AI winner?

We already have all the Good teams playing each other in Division One of the League.
This is the Cup! Is the Cup not supposed to be Knockout?


The Reality is that the GAA want to Milk the Dublin Cash cow! When they are looking at the Big games they are looking at how many of the Good teams they can get playing Dublin and filling Croke Park.

Consecutive Draws between Mayo and Dublin have shown them the real money that can be mopped up from this.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 12:54:02 PM
MYTHS

That super 8 is for the benefit of Club football.
That it is for the benefit of the weaker counties.
That it is for the benefit of the players.
That it makes it harder for Kerry/Dublin to win AI titles.
That Dublin would be asked to play outside Croker in Super 8.

REALITIES


Croker needs more big games to satisfy Vendors, Corporate Boxes, Sky TV, Dublin Media.
Dublin will only play Super 8 game outside Croker if game is a dead Rubber.
Leading counties Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone/Donegal/Mayo now get three chances.
To play games week in week out over the months of July and August needs huge player resources.
There is the cost on the fan?
The disruption of Holidays.
It's alright for Zulu and his fellow Dubs who will have all this on his doorstep with little peripheral cost or time.
How many backdoor routes can you create for to get a AI winner?

We already have all the Good teams playing each other in Division One of the League.
This is the Cup! Is the Cup not supposed to be Knockout?


The Reality is that the GAA want to Milk the Dublin Cash cow! When they are looking at the Big games they are looking at how many of the Good teams they can get playing Dublin and filling Croke Park.

Consecutive Draws between Mayo and Dublin have shown them the real money that can be mopped up from this.

Spot on. Seems about right.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on February 28, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

The removal of replays is was not part of the motion on super 8s.
Introduced a round of dead rubber games at the business end of the championship.
Made it easier on the Munster finalists giving them an additional chance.
Only 2 counties are affected in September anyway.
So I'll ask again what issues does the super 8 FIX.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on February 28, 2017, 01:09:23 PM
Zulu, its a great proposal for Dublin, Kerry, Mayo county teams who will probably make the super 8 every year. Its a terrible proposal for their club sides who have county footballers though.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on February 28, 2017, 01:13:17 PM
You're proving my position by again and it's far from just Dubs supporting this. But you ask about Waterford and the like, ok what's your solution then? Duffy, nor anyone else said this was the solution to all our issues but I'd like to hear how we can keep the provincials and provide the weaker teams more games, in the height of summer no less???

So, screenexile let's hear your proposal that provides the weaker teams meaningful games in the height of summer and gives the clubs more time with their IC players as well.

Move the league to summertime and qualification for the all Ireland series is based on league position. Provincial winners also qualify for the all Ireland series. All run off over say 4 months. Club games played in the first half of the year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on February 28, 2017, 01:22:14 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Stay quiet you, Dub. :)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrdeeds on February 28, 2017, 02:45:10 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Ulster teams still at diaadvantage. They will still have tough games to get there and need to peak earlier than others while Mayo Kerry and Dublin are guaranteed to get there and can peak later.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on February 28, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
There are over 200 games played in the 2 months it takes to run off the NFL.
What's the equivalent stat for the football championship?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: LeoMc on February 28, 2017, 03:19:49 PM
I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.
Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final ???
If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).

Bringing the games forward addresses this. Even clubs in successful counties get September back. Those outside the 8 have July / August for their club games also.

All but two counties had September anyway.  ;)
That is what I was judging success on.  :P
The next 6 also get a couple of weeks of August back.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on February 28, 2017, 03:22:45 PM
Mr. Deeds, that's what you get when you stick to provincial championships, unless the Munster teams improve.  Not much you can do without scrapping the provincials.

The Trap, how do you mean it's bad for club with county players?

Ha ha Derry, there may be dead rubber games granted. But could you not try to make your argument balanced by saying "might be" instead of implying they're a certainty?
Munster champions get a second chance but will still encounter more difficult games en route to the final. Can you also accept this?
Clubs of the six teams not making the semi-finals will also get their players back earlier.

From the Bunker is in WUM territory so I won't encourage him/her.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 04:14:54 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Stay quiet you, Dub. :)

Yeah, I'm not sure why I'm labelled a Dub!! And a game in CP will cost me more time and money than most in Ireland - on my bloody doorstep!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
There are over 200 games played in the 2 months it takes to run off the NFL.
What's the equivalent stat for the football championship?
Around 60/62 games played over almost 5 months.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
It appears to me that most of the criticism is based on the fact it's not perfect but if that's the baseline then we're better off keeping it as we are and complaining our way through the championships. There's no point in proposing what mcdanger2 said, even though I'd agree with much of it but it won't get through congress. There is little you can do for the weaker teams if you keep the provincials and it's extremely difficult to do much more for the clubs as long as many club players play two codes and some two levels. But making the changes required there won't get the support necessary either.

I think there is a lot in this proposal and it does help FIX a poor championship structure.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: JoG2 on February 28, 2017, 04:52:12 PM
This is what the recent changes (last 2 years) will mean for club football in Tyrone in 2018:

County minors are not allowed to play for the club seniors until Tyrone are beat in minor championship (somewhere between end of May and end of August)
County minors are not allowed to train with the club at minor or senior level for the same period
17 year olds are not allowed to play for the club seniors/reserves
County Under 20s will be preparing for a summer championship match thus not training with the club and probably missing games for friendlies etc at the managers wishes.
County seniors will be playing O'Fiach Cup, McKenna Cup, National League, Ulster Championship and Super 8s if they qualify as expected. All of this has to be squeezed in by end of August.
In Tyrone there are usually 5 starred games to accommodate county players and they then play the rest of the club league games. Where are these club games going to be fitted into a compressed schedule? There wont be much of a gap between end of league and start of Ulster championship and between Ulster championship games and then on to qualifiers/super 8s.
The answer is there will be very little if any opportunity to play for the club.

For people who say that these proposals will help club football I think you don't understand the reality of the situation. Personally I have no time for the county scene any more but I know lots of people who go to county games that have no allegiance to any club. The fixtures makers in Tyrone already have a nightmare, we don't know the dates of any league or championship matches in any divisions and normally don't know what is happening from one week to the next. 2018 is going to be an absolute nightmare and it is only when we are going through it that people will realise the extent of the problem.

Anybody who can come back to me during/after the 2018 club season in Tyrone and can tell me any different to the nightmare scenario above I will be glad to say I was wrong.

just to be clear, if a player has turned 17 the calendar year before the 2017 league / championship ie 31st December 1999 or before, they can play senior club.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:20:10 PM
We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Why dont we have any"notable" games before qf or sf? Because with the exception of the Ulster championship the provincial title is of no value. Dublin Kerry Cork Mayo know that they will in all likelihood be in the quarter finals either front door or back door and adjust their training plans accordingly.
As regards having the All Ireland finals in August its just waving the white flag and handing ovet September to the following June to rugby and soccer on television,newspapers etc
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rodney trotter on February 28, 2017, 07:22:53 PM
Teams could lose the first 2 games and have nothing to play for in the 3rd game. Imagine that non event in Croke Park,
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 07:36:06 PM
But again all your saying is it isn't perfect and the reality is that if we want to cater for two separate codes, have players play at two different levels (club and county) and give everyone enough games and structure to their season then we need to make some very unpopular decisions and change the GAA dramatically.

Since that's not going to happen then this is a reasonable development.


Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Ball Hopper on February 28, 2017, 07:49:12 PM
According to the GAA document, The Order of Games in each Group has been pre-determined as follows, presuming 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw:

Round 1
Team 1 v Team 2 in Croke Park
Team 3 v Team 4 in Croke Park

Round 2
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for provincial champions.
Team 2 V Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for provincial champions.

Round 3
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.
Team 2 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

The winner of the Team 1 v Team 2 will have a big advantage and winning the Round 2 game at home will see them through.  Does that leave the final game away from home a dead rubber?  Or maybe play to avoid a "bigger" team in the other group, depending on results from that group?

Loser of Team 1 v Team 2 will need two wins to advance so no dead rubber in Round 3.  Of course, their opponent in Round 3 may have lost both games to that point which would leave them nothing to play for in that final game.

Would 3 points for a win make a difference?  Is a three-way tie possible...outside of every game finishing level...or is a two-way tie for second place most likely?


Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on February 28, 2017, 07:55:43 PM
Mr. Deeds, that's what you get when you stick to provincial championships, unless the Munster teams improve.  Not much you can do without scrapping the provincials.

The Trap, how do you mean it's bad for club with county players?

Ha ha Derry, there may be dead rubber games granted. But could you not try to make your argument balanced by saying "might be" instead of implying they're a certainty?
Munster champions get a second chance but will still encounter more difficult games en route to the final. Can you also accept this?
Clubs of the six teams not making the semi-finals will also get their players back earlier.

From the Bunker is in WUM territory so I won't encourage him/her.

I'm not on a wind up! I'm disgusted with the Super 8! It creates more problems than it solves. I hate the thought that the stronger teams now get a third chance. The advantages that were available to the stronger teams have become bigger advantages. Dublin come out of this smelling of roses! Their big squad, home games and professional set-up will suit the rapid fire nature of the games.  Kerry/Tyrone/Mayo/Donegal will hold their own. Counties like Monaghan who are punching above their weight would be stretched!

But hey, Zulu who is bored out his mind with the Leinster Championship needs a bit stimulation on his doorstep! So lets create a longer version of what we already have over a shorter space of time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 28, 2017, 08:32:29 PM
I'm not arguing for the Trap, but I do think that clubs with county players will be punished when the county leagues are going on.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on February 28, 2017, 09:03:43 PM
Mr. Deeds, that's what you get when you stick to provincial championships, unless the Munster teams improve.  Not much you can do without scrapping the provincials.

The Trap, how do you mean it's bad for club with county players?

Ha ha Derry, there may be dead rubber games granted. But could you not try to make your argument balanced by saying "might be" instead of implying they're a certainty?
Munster champions get a second chance but will still encounter more difficult games en route to the final. Can you also accept this?
Clubs of the six teams not making the semi-finals will also get their players back earlier.

From the Bunker is in WUM territory so I won't encourage him/her.

I'm not on a wind up! I'm disgusted with the Super 8! It creates more problems than it solves. I hate the thought that the stronger teams now get a third chance. The advantages that were available to the stronger teams have become bigger advantages. Dublin come out of this smelling of roses! Their big squad, home games and professional set-up will suit the rapid fire nature of the games.  Kerry/Tyrone/Mayo/Donegal will hold their own. Counties like Monaghan who are punching above their weight would be stretched!

But hey, Zulu who is bored out his mind with the Leinster Championship needs a bit stimulation on his doorstep! So lets create a longer version of what we already have over a shorter space of time.

Just for clarity, I'm not a Dub or living in Dublin but I am, like most everybody else, board out of my mind with the championship. The league is brilliant thankfully and gives everybody something meaningful.

FoB unless you can suggest something better and that will pass congress then I don't understand where you're coming from at all.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on February 28, 2017, 09:08:59 PM
According to the GAA document, The Order of Games in each Group has been pre-determined as follows, presuming 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw:

Round 1
Team 1 v Team 2 in Croke Park
Team 3 v Team 4 in Croke Park

Round 2
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for provincial champions.
Team 2 V Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for provincial champions.

Round 3
Team 1 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.
Team 2 v Team 3 or 4  Home advantage for Team 3 or 4.

The winner of the Team 1 v Team 2 will have a big advantage and winning the Round 2 game at home will see them through.  Does that leave the final game away from home a dead rubber?  Or maybe play to avoid a "bigger" team in the other group, depending on results from that group?

Loser of Team 1 v Team 2 will need two wins to advance so no dead rubber in Round 3.  Of course, their opponent in Round 3 may have lost both games to that point which would leave them nothing to play for in that final game.

Would 3 points for a win make a difference?  Is a three-way tie possible...outside of every game finishing level...or is a two-way tie for second place most likely?

Regardless of the order of games, if one or two teams enter the final round having lost both previous games, there'll be one or two dead rubbers. Ideally, all four teams would have won one game entering the last round but that's probably unlikely unless it's a very competitive group.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 08:34:32 AM
Mr. Deeds, that's what you get when you stick to provincial championships, unless the Munster teams improve.  Not much you can do without scrapping the provincials.

The Trap, how do you mean it's bad for club with county players?

Ha ha Derry, there may be dead rubber games granted. But could you not try to make your argument balanced by saying "might be" instead of implying they're a certainty?
Munster champions get a second chance but will still encounter more difficult games en route to the final. Can you also accept this?
Clubs of the six teams not making the semi-finals will also get their players back earlier.

From the Bunker is in WUM territory so I won't encourage him/her.

I'm not on a wind up! I'm disgusted with the Super 8! It creates more problems than it solves. I hate the thought that the stronger teams now get a third chance. The advantages that were available to the stronger teams have become bigger advantages. Dublin come out of this smelling of roses! Their big squad, home games and professional set-up will suit the rapid fire nature of the games.  Kerry/Tyrone/Mayo/Donegal will hold their own. Counties like Monaghan who are punching above their weight would be stretched!

But hey, Zulu who is bored out his mind with the Leinster Championship needs a bit stimulation on his doorstep! So lets create a longer version of what we already have over a shorter space of time.

Just for clarity, I'm not a Dub or living in Dublin but I am, like most everybody else, board out of my mind with the championship. The league is brilliant thankfully and gives everybody something meaningful.

FoB unless you can suggest something better and that will pass congress then I don't understand where you're coming from at all.
I agree with you. I find the league a lot more enjoyable. Players are fitter now than years ago and there are a lot more  competitive games. What good is Dublin v Wicklow or Kerry v Waterford in the championship? We have to wait all summer for a decent game usually a semi final. Even the Qfs are thrown up mismatches
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 08:48:17 AM
The league certainly undergone a perception shift. The Championship is still the holy grail, and while you have lads like Liam Kearns downplaying it and saying the Chammpionship is the main focus, I think most managers and players understand that to play the long game, consistently competitive in championship, you have to be operating at a higher level in the league.

If we made your league finishing position a factor in what stage of the championship you entered, you might have another boost.

In fairness TG4 and Eir have also added greatly to the appeal of the league.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 01, 2017, 09:16:52 AM
The league certainly undergone a perception shift. The Championship is still the holy grail, and while you have lads like Liam Kearns downplaying it and saying the Chammpionship is the main focus, I think most managers and players understand that to play the long game, consistently competitive in championship, you have to be operating at a higher level in the league.

If we made your league finishing position a factor in what stage of the championship you entered, you might have another boost.

In fairness TG4 and Eir have also added greatly to the appeal of the league.
I was thinking something the same the other night in bed AZ. Kind of like the FA cup in England, Div 3 and 4 enter the 1st round, 8 winners and Div 2 in second round 8 winners and Div 1 in 3rd round. It would be open draw first team home advantage etc. Gives all counties incentive to move up the leagues. I know the provincials would be rendered useless, but something would have to give.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on March 01, 2017, 09:26:29 AM
The league is a great competition. Apart from the occasional game in D4, almost all games are between fairly evenly matched teams
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: munchkin on March 01, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
I was thinking something the same the other night in bed AZ. Kind of like the FA cup in England, Div 3 and 4 enter the 1st round, 8 winners and Div 2 in second round 8 winners and Div 1 in 3rd round. It would be open draw first team home advantage etc. Gives all counties incentive to move up the leagues. I know the provincials would be rendered useless, but something would have to give.
i was thinking along the same lines, except that winning the province gives you a wild card to a later stage  if you havent already automatically qualified as a div1 team.
Similar to the way that winning the champions league might kick out a 4th place team in England or Germany.

it will NEVER pass congress without some sort of direct qualification or benefit from winning the province which is why something like that would be needed.
(now.... that the format of the championship requires congress approval to allow it to be written into the rule book  is another issue !)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2017, 10:21:37 AM
Genuine question for everyone, but especially for those against the Super 8; what do the the weaker counties want? I'm talking primarily about the counties in Division 4. Does anyone know anyone involved, be it players, management etc?

We've heard that they want the provincials kept and that they don't want a tiered championship. Then we hear the Wicklow manager advocating a strike in light of what was passed at congress.

I'm just wondering what kind up set-up they have in mind that would right the wrong of what was passed.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 10:24:39 AM
I think they want to be in the All Ireland championship proper, and they want the Provincials, but they want more games. That's going to be very tricky to do. 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2017, 10:41:55 AM
I think they want to be in the All Ireland championship proper, and they want the Provincials, but they want more games. That's going to be very tricky to do.
Yeah that seems to be it in high level terms but I wonder have the any ideas on it. Is a round-robin at the beginning of the championship to qualify for the latter stages a runner at all I wonder?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 01, 2017, 10:51:37 AM
I threw out a suggestion last year that
6 lowest teams in NFL play for the AI JFC, winners get into AI SFC.
Next 6 lowest play AI IFC, winners get into AI SFC.
12 teams who don't make Provincials Finals play Round 1 AI SFC
6 winners of Round 1 plus the Junior and Inter winners play the 8 Provincials Finalists. Provincial Champions seeded and get home venues.
Of course if the NFL was transferred to Summer and became the Championship........
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2017, 10:55:33 AM
I threw out a suggestion last year that
6 lowest teams in NFL play for the AI JFC, winners get into AI SFC.
Next 6 lowest play AI IFC, winners get into AI SFC.
12 teams who don't make Provincials Finals play Round 1 AI SFC
6 winners of Round 1 plus the Junior and Inter winners play the 8 Provincials Finalists. Provincial Champions seeded and get home venues.
Of course if the NFL was transferred to Summer and became the Championship........
I remember it and thought it was a great idea, although difficult to fit in to the calendar with the league as it is.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on March 01, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
I always wondered could we somehow use the league (Div1) and the provincials to decide which teams make the last 8. What I mean is say you took the top 4 teams in Div 1 and they qualify for the last 8 and then they sit out the provincials.
Then you play the provincials as usual without the big guns. It's a bit like the premier league teams already in the 3rd round of the FA cup.

So last year's top 4 were Dublin, Kerry, Roscommon and Donegal.
Then you would probably have got Westmeath, Tipperary, Galway and Tyrone from the provinces. Mayo & Clare missing out.

Pros. Gives the league a lot more importance and good reward for 4 best teams
         Gives lesser counties a better chance of winning their provincial championship especially in Leinster & Munster 
         No need for all the qualifier matches so more time for club football.

Cons. What if two teams from the same province say Cork & Kerry only leaving 3 in Munster
          Teams qualified through league will have no games until July.

Of course there would be some problems with it but at least it could give the provincials a new lease of life with the usual suspects of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry out of them to give other teams a chance.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
Another Con to that is winning a Munster without Cork and Kerry in it means feck all.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 11:38:17 AM
Genuine question for everyone, but especially for those against the Super 8; what do the the weaker counties want? I'm talking primarily about the counties in Division 4. Does anyone know anyone involved, be it players, management etc?

We've heard that they want the provincials kept and that they don't want a tiered championship. Then we hear the Wicklow manager advocating a strike in light of what was passed at congress.

I'm just wondering what kind up set-up they have in mind that would right the wrong of what was passed.
Then you often hear an argument from weaker counties that round robin series inherently favour the strong teams because they have stronger panels.

The arguments are labyrinthine.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 11:47:59 AM
Which is Zulu's point all along. So many facets.

Also my point, so many 'problems' so how on earth do you solve them, or who even identifies what the biggest ones are?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 11:54:12 AM
Which is Zulu's point all along. So many facets.

Also my point, so many 'problems' so how on earth do you solve them, or who even identifies what the biggest ones are?

It's a bit like politics.

You get individuals claiming to speak for "the people".

When they clearly don't, because "the people" are of many different opinions, and deeply divided.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Main Street on March 01, 2017, 12:14:05 PM
The starting point of the AI are the provincials.
The qualifiers have addressed the issue to a good extent of the inequities in the orig system and the continued success of back door teams is a testament to that  success.The prov winner was rewarded by getting straight through to the 1/4s and was seeded (a theoretical advantage).

In this new system the provincial winners are even more advantaged in the last 8 draw.
However in the example draw for 2016, Dublin would have had to travel to Tyrone, an interesting hypothetical  to say the least.  Maybe not all about this new format is as cut and dried, as predetermined as it might appear.

Calling any part of a competition super this or super that, is sick bucket territory, akin to rugby hype (both codes). iIhope this does not mean pre game hype, nausea educing fireworks etc, ear bashing decibel level music, just because some market survey indicated that its good for the game.


  It's the GAA,  it could be called the Eightsome.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ha ha derry on March 01, 2017, 12:15:52 PM
The 13 day rule being reduced to 6 day rule would be a big benefit to clubs and county panellists. would free up almost a month during the summer whilst still allowing the county programmes to continue unhindered.
County players have no bother playing on a weekly basis during the league so shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on March 01, 2017, 12:16:24 PM
Can they not just keep calling it 'The All-Ireland Series'?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2017, 12:26:39 PM


Calling any part of a competition super this or super that, is sick bucket territory, akin to rugby hype (both codes). iIhope this does not mean pre game hype, nausea educing fireworks etc, ear bashing decibel level music, just because some market survey indicated that its good for the game.

"The humble little round robin series."
"The League of Counties"
"The All-Ireland Merry-go-round"
"The G(AA)8
"The 8 Balls"
"The Octagon"
"The Dead Rubber Series"
"The 8 wonder"
"Who 8 all the pies?"
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 01, 2017, 12:32:23 PM
Can they not just keep calling it 'The All-Ireland Series'?

That would be the right name for it.
You'd have the All Ireland Qualifiers
The All Ireland Series
And the All  Ireland Championship.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 01, 2017, 12:42:39 PM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 12:50:43 PM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.

Should be Elite Eight anyway. Like March Madness
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on March 01, 2017, 01:04:38 PM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.

Should be Elite Eight anyway. Like March Madness

More like Dublin + the Severely Substandard Seven.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on March 01, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
I'm not a big fan of how this super 8 has come about and it by no means addresses or even attempts to address the big issues within the structure of the fixtures.  But now that its definitely happening and theres not much we can do about it, I for one am looking forward to the group stages to how it all pans out. The first year at least will be exciting.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2017, 01:12:36 PM
I've read here people say that the League is good? No more than that!  It's ok for a bit of tippey tappey in the Spring! Jez, Mayo have not broke a sweat in the League since 2010. Kerry don't give a sh1t until the last couple of games. Donegal and Tyrone have been relegated and promoted. And then there is the Dubs who with the biggest squad and all home games at the knock out stage have just waltzed to title after title. The League finals have been shambolic the last couple of years.

All the rest bar Cork and maybe Monaghan are temporary residents of division One.

The GAA have created a monster in DUBLIN GAA. This will not go away! The SUPER 8 will only make Dublin bigger and bigger. Until they get so big they will be like Celtic in the Scottish league (If they are not already?).

You can dress it up anyway you like!


It is said there are no other solutions to the problems. So what do the GAA do? Introduce Super 8 meaning there are more games in a smaller time frame and give teams another chance to lose and we call this a solution?

The GAA want it both ways they want the professional prices they charge for their Corporate Boxes, their Sky deals and their ticket prices. While asking more and more from Amateur players. 'Butter on both sides'

The expectation on Amateur players is so high, that many players are opting out. This will only add to it.

No Dublin games in the Championship will be played outside Croker in the Super 8 unless its a dead rubber game.

The fans will soon start voting with there feet. They have started already.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Main Street on March 01, 2017, 01:46:11 PM


Calling any part of a competition super this or super that, is sick bucket territory, akin to rugby hype (both codes). iIhope this does not mean pre game hype, nausea educing fireworks etc, ear bashing decibel level music, just because some market survey indicated that its good for the game.

"The humble little round robin series."
"The League of Counties"
"The All-Ireland Merry-go-round"
"The G(AA)8
"The 8 Balls"
"The Octagon"
"The Dead Rubber Series"
"The 8 wonder"
"Who 8 all the pies?"

The AI final        -   The Super Croke

when Mayo lose  -  The Super Choke  (sorry for that)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: vallankumous on March 01, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
Why can't they play the 2 groups the same weekend - 2 games Saturday, 2 Sunday.

Everything about this points to revenue. That's the answer to almost all the questions.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 01, 2017, 01:51:04 PM
I've read here people say that the League is good? No more than that!  It's ok for a bit of tippey tappey in the Spring! Jez, Mayo have not broke a sweat in the League since 2010. Kerry don't give a sh1t until the last couple of games. Donegal and Tyrone have been relegated and promoted. And then there is the Dubs who with the biggest squad and all home games at the knock out stage have just waltzed to title after title. The League finals have been shambolic the last couple of years.

All the rest bar Cork and maybe Monaghan are temporary residents of division One.

The GAA have created a monster in DUBLIN GAA. This will not go away! The SUPER 8 will only make Dublin bigger and bigger. Until they get so big they will be like Celtic in the Scottish league (If they are not already?).

You can dress it up anyway you like!


It is said there are no other solutions to the problems. So what do the GAA do? Introduce Super 8 meaning there are more games in a smaller time frame and give teams another chance to lose and we call this a solution?

The GAA want it both ways they want the professional prices they charge for their Corporate Boxes, their Sky deals and their ticket prices. While asking more and more from Amateur players. 'Butter on both sides'

The expectation on Amateur players is so high, that many players are opting out. This will only add to it.

No Dublin games in the Championship will be played outside Croker in the Super 8 unless its a dead rubber game.

The fans will soon start voting with there feet. They have started already.

I'm not convinced by the change particularly on club football in the counties who make the All Ireland final. For most counties there season will be over by June/July and plenty of time to play club games.

But a lot of what you are saying is very over the top. I don't see how this will make Dublin much stronger. They currently are walking Leinster and then have one game to get to the semis. The new system should in theory make it tougher for them to get through (though I'm sure they still will). I've do doubt they will play one game outside croke park and no idea why you would be so confident that they won't.

Are the Dubs any more dominant now than Kerry were in the 80's? I predict they will actually slip back a little over the next few years. They will still pick up more all Irelands but wont be dominant.

In relation to the number of games a few more actually wont do any harm. Currently county players train from December to July (8 months) and ignoring pre season comps used for experimentation only play 7 league games and 4 to 5 championship games max. Very few for the training done.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
You don't see how Dublin will get stronger from Super 8? Really?

More home games?

No disruption in relation to traveling for games.

More sponsorship?

Opportunity to have a bad game after Provincial win?

Keeps bigger squad happy with games?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 01, 2017, 02:41:27 PM
You don't see how Dublin will get stronger from Super 8? Really?

More home games?

They currently play 100% of games on from leinster semi at home. Not sure how this will make a big difference and will actually bring them out of croke park at the business end of the season.


No disruption in relation to traveling for games.

They don't have any disruption currently and haven't for the last 100 years (bar one or two exceptions) at the business end of the season. So again not sure how super 8 will change that.


More sponsorship?

Maybe slightly more but would imagine it wont be a massive factor given its only 2 extra games.

Opportunity to have a bad game after Provincial win?

Wont this be the same for all provincial champions? Currently many people think the system is unfair the fact they don't get a second chance. Maybe it'll add more meaning to the provincial championships.

Keeps bigger squad happy with games?

It's hard to tell how strong the squad is until actually tested and I don't think there'll be much rotation for the sake of it at that stage of the year.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 01, 2017, 02:46:28 PM
Unless they split Dublin or introduce a handicap I'm not sure there is any system that will reduce their chances of winning the All Ireland. They are strong enough that no matter what system is used they'll get to the semi's most years. After that they may be beaten by one of the top teams. I'm not sure what people want but at the end of the day the best team on average will win and should win the all Ireland.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2017, 03:04:54 PM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.

Should be Elite Eight anyway. Like March Madness

More like Dublin + the Severely Substandard Seven.

Snow blue and the 7 dwarfs
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on March 01, 2017, 04:13:04 PM
If we apply the teams from this year's last 8 to the new set up for next season I think we come with these groups and fixtures.
Group 1   Group 2
Tyrone      Kerry
Dub          Galway
Tipp          Donegal
Clare         Mayo   

Round 1
Dub v Tyrone in Croker
Tipp v Clare in Croker

Round 2
Tyrone v Tipp in Tyrone
Dub v Clare in Croker

Round 3
Clare v Tyrone in Clare
Tipp v Dublin in Tipp

Possible Final table
Dublin
Tyrone
Tipp
Clare

Round 1
Kerry v Galway in Croker
Donegal v Mayo in Croker

Round 2
Kerry v Donegal in Kerry
Galway v Mayo in Galway

Round 3
Kerry v Mayo in Mayo
Galway v Donegal in Donegal

Possible Final table
Kerry
Mayo
Donegal
Galway

So the semis would be Kerry v Tyrone and Mayo v Dublin.

With Dublin being so dominant lately you would imagine with the new system that even if they were to lose to a provincial winner in Croker or they were to lose away from home to a big gun in the qualifiers like Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone who lost their provincial final, it would still be very likely they will come 2nd in their group and so always be making the semi final. It will only be in years where they have a Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone/Donegal in their group that they will struggle to come out of their group.
Saying that it is probably easier for teams like Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo to play the Dubs in Croker and beat them than it is for other teams to win away from home in Kerry, Mayo or Ulster.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2017, 05:18:00 PM
Some proposals that Aidan O'Rourke has put up on QUB page. As a former player and manager at club and county level and as sports development officer at third level, someone like O'Rourke is in a good position to provide an input. The CPA need to produce some sort of framework that can prove workable. The perfect solution does not exist but I think most people would like to see a split club and county season. The problem will be in trying to convince the bean counters in Croke Park that the GAA needs to become a more participation focussed organisation than a spectator and commercial one. I think this is possible if the county calendar runs in the first half of the year with a greater focus on TV exposure in this period. The club championship has massive potential to be grown as well with a dedicated weekly programme for the second half of the year that keep the games going all year round. 

http://queens.gaa.ie/2017/03/01/proposed-alternative-gaa-calendar/

http://queens.gaa.ie/2017/03/01/proposed-gaa-calendar-continued/
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Scarlet on March 01, 2017, 05:36:50 PM
The CPA are sending an email regarding what they want their members to do and one of the things is to get involved at their clubs and go to meetings.
Now all this BS about the disconnect but if we drill into it, why is the group claiming to be all about club men not acknowledging the fact that they can't influence club delegates?
The GPA also are making noises in support of the GPA but they don't ever make any cases for their members being more available for their clubs as that would upset the county managers.

Here are two player groups who, in the case of the GPA represent 1.5% of the overall playing population, and the other only starting out who also represent the minority of the club men who think they speak for everyone.

The mechanism was there to stop Super 8 by giving the club delegate a mandate to bring it up and make noise when it was being voted on at county board level, and then in turn all the way to congress.
If a county man walked into their club meeting and lay it out their voice would be heard and some counties could have been swayed. But sure with all this disconnect the GPA members couldn't make their club meeting...

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on March 01, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
I'd love to see someone do the GAA equivalent of a TED Talk on championship structures & fixtures.
These are the issues for the club and county player, and here's how we're going to fix them.
It's a confusing mess at the moment.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:52:57 PM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.

It gels in with Sky Sport Super Sunday. Ideally the All Irelands will be over by the end of August and wont interfere with the Sky Transfer Window Super Countdown.
God forbid that aDublin Kerry final would interfere with the news of Daryl Murphy transferring to Accrington Stanley or Mick McCarthys Ipswich signing Carlos Kickaball from Deportivo
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2017, 07:35:32 PM
You don't see how Dublin will get stronger from Super 8? Really?

More home games?

They currently play 100% of games on from leinster semi at home. Not sure how this will make a big difference and will actually bring them out of croke park at the business end of the season.


Yes, more home games with less pressure in a league type environment!

No disruption in relation to traveling for games.

They don't have any disruption currently and haven't for the last 100 years (bar one or two exceptions) at the business end of the season. So again not sure how super 8 will change that.

While the rest of the teams are trapsing around the country week in week out. The Dubs are playing home games, sleeping in their own beds with little worry of travel itenary and so on.


More sponsorship?

Maybe slightly more but would imagine it wont be a massive factor given its only 2 extra games.

Opportunity to have a bad game after Provincial win?

Wont this be the same for all provincial champions? Currently many people think the system is unfair the fact they don't get a second chance. Maybe it'll add more meaning to the provincial championships.

Of course it will be the same for provincial Champions! But do you realise Dublin may now be beaten twice at home and still win an AI!

Keeps bigger squad happy with games?

It's hard to tell how strong the squad is until actually tested and I don't think there'll be much rotation for the sake of it at that stage of the year.

You don't have to be Einstein to realise how strong Dublins squad is. They won the O'Byrne Cup with their 'C' team!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2017, 08:51:24 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0228/855993-wicklow-boss-backs-strike-over-super-8-proposals/ (https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0228/855993-wicklow-boss-backs-strike-over-super-8-proposals/)

Wicklow senior football manager Johnny Magee believes that football players should go on strike in response to the so-called Super 8 proposals for Championship football.

The motion to introduce the Super 8 was passed at Congress at the weekend with 76 per cent of the delegates voting to trial the new format for a three-year period.

GPA CEO Dermot Earley spoke out about the new changes on behalf of the inter-county players, stating that there was not proper consultation and that the new format would not help the gulf in standards between the top sides in the country and the weaker counties.

However, the GPA left it late to formulate an opinion on the Super 8 proposals and their views appeared to be sidelined at Congress.

Wicklow boss Magee feels that it’s a move that will only benefit the bigger counties and that it will widen the gap further between the haves and the have nots.

“There’s only so many times you can kick a dog before it bites back,” he said on RTÉ’s Game On.

“It suits the so called top teams because it leads to more exposure and advertising, so they’re not going to complain about it.

“How are you meant to entice the players to play? By 2 April we [Wicklow] will have played 10 games – that’s 10 games in 13 or 14 weeks in the muck of winter football.

“We then played two Championship matches last year on 14 May and on 18 June and then nothing for over five months.”

“They missed out on all the summer and where in the fairness and the equality?

“Croke Park are not looking at the so-called weaker teams. To have a game that you love and to be left out in the cold – that’s exactly what’s happening here.”

Johnny Magee‏ @JohnnyMagee06  Feb 25

More Total disrespect&regard 4 club&county players opinion.There is NO game without players! #ALL OUTSTRIKE club&county


The former Dublin defender went even further when speaking to the Irish Examiner and claimed that if he was still a player, he go on strike.

"What do they really expect up in Croke Park?," he asked. "The word strike might sound very strong but at the end of the day the players have voiced their opinion and it’s not been listened to. And this is not once, it’s happened two years in a row that the GPA has been ignored.

"I feel the players have been disrespected once too often. If I was still a player, my opinion would be that I will go on strike because that’s twice now they haven’t listened to us.”

"I can’t see it ending in a nice way. And it’s not going to be the fault of players. They feel they’ve voiced their opinion twice now and been shot down. So where does it end?”

"Something has to change. It keeps going round in circles but at the end of the day it’s not going to solve anything."
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 01, 2017, 08:56:15 PM
Sure Wicklow are on strike with years now.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 01, 2017, 09:06:16 PM
Sure Wicklow are on strike with years now.
:D ;D
110 at least!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 01, 2017, 09:38:16 PM
Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
Where are u from Zulu anyway?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Main Street on March 01, 2017, 11:02:11 PM
Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.
Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.
 
I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on March 01, 2017, 11:33:30 PM
Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.
Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.
 
I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 01, 2017, 11:46:05 PM
Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.
Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.
 
I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.

Do you mean respectful in the way Johnny is being respectful by suggesting strikes for minor changes in the season?

By the way, if you read what I said then you'd know I don't claim to know the way forward. In fact, I've repeatedly said there is no perfect way forward. However, it's hard to give credit to a guy saying players should strike because Wicklow aren't getting more games in the summer yet offering no concrete alternative.

My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at. 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2017, 02:00:08 AM
Quote
My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at
Duffy genuine  ;D

Zulu it seems you are one of those that wanted a change for the sake of change and couldn't care less what half arse change was made so long as the current format was changed.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 02, 2017, 10:33:11 AM
I hope Johnny and everyone else sit down sharpish and thrash this out because the debate is becoming very tiresome.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2017, 11:25:27 AM
Utter nonsense from Johnny. What he is actually saying is why aren't Wicklow playing more games in the summer. Ok so, if the system was set up so that the weaker teams were playing less in winter (Spring I think you'll find in reality) and more in the summer then when do club players play Johnny??? Another thing for Johnny and  Wicklow to consider is trying to bloody improve!!! You'll get more summer games if you do that.

The GPA are talking rubbish and the CPA not much better and then we have the paranoid Dub bashers who see everything as a Dub promotion tool and everyone as a Dub.

People calming down and watching how this works out is the way forward.
Be more respectful to others' opinions and less of that you know the real way forward and all must agree with you, otherwise they're talking rubbish because you are so sure of the way forward. The Wicklow manager has his valid concerns and his valid opinions, just as other people here have their opinions, what we abide by in the end are the rules of congress and observe the test of time.
 
I am open to the new format but I have my reservations.
The current long drawn out championship format could have been tweaked positivily in different ways re scheduling However the current shortcomings have been used to push this "radical" so called solution which at present is just a questionable theory which might go some way to relieve some of the shortcomings of the current system.
I think the Wicklow manager knows more about how this  can possibly effect his county than you do.

Agreed. Most of the rebukes centre on the view that  "he should worry about managing Wicklow".

Blaming a manager for Wicklow lack of success is the just being oblivious to the plight of the weaker counties but of course that's a beloved past time of the elite and top brass.

Do you mean respectful in the way Johnny is being respectful by suggesting strikes for minor changes in the season?

By the way, if you read what I said then you'd know I don't claim to know the way forward. In fact, I've repeatedly said there is no perfect way forward. However, it's hard to give credit to a guy saying players should strike because Wicklow aren't getting more games in the summer yet offering no concrete alternative.

My objection is to the ridiculous criticism of a fairly minor change and the abuse genuine GAA men like Pauric Duffy have gotten when there hasn't been one genuine alternative workable solution.

The super 8 isn't the solution but is better than what we have and worth having a look at.
He said 'that if he was still a player, he'd go on strike'.
And it follows that the CPA also ignored by Congress have not ruled out strike action.

The issue for Johnny is not just about the super 8s  but also about not being listened to and disrespected.
"the players have voiced their opinion and it’s not been listened to. And this is not once, it’s happened two years in a row that the GPA has been ignored."
"I feel the players have been disrespected once too often. If I was still a player, my opinion would be that I will go on strike because that’s twice now they haven’t listened to us.”

As even any good parent should realise, it's important to listen.

Johnny's opinion on the super 8s is that it's a negative step for the weaker counties which won't address the concerns he experiences. He does not have to offer up an alternative solution in order to point out the negatives of the super 8s for the weaker counties.
If he was asked, he might have done, but he does not have to point out his step forward  in order to have valid concerns about what he perceives as a step backwards for the players of the weaker counties.

You should listen to Johnny and show some respect for his opinions rather than keep repeating "rubbish".
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 02, 2017, 01:53:33 PM
Main Street, I think you're giving Magee to much credit here, possibly to have a go at Zulu, I don't know.

Anyone can give an opinion and not offer an alternative. It doesn't lead to much. "I think the Super 8 is brilliant and that's all that I have to say on the matter."

What players weren't listened to? As far as I can see, from the limited amount of information out there, the intercounty players got the retention of the provincials and the inclusion of everyone in the race for Sam, which is the feedback received last summer. The clubs of every county will have their county players back earlier than last year. I know this isn't specifically about the Super 8, but Motion 4 & 5 were part of the overall proposal along with the Super 8 so I think all changes to the intercounty championship should be looked at when deciding on whether things have improved. I think the CPA was too late coming to the table for this year, considering how long it took for the GPA to be recognised.

We've heard in the past week of how badly the GPA sought to hear their members' views on this and the reasons given for the vote against the Super 8 was that it didn't do enough for the weaker counties.  Fine, that's what it didn't do. But again, what was it that the weaker counties wanted? What was Duffy supposed to do? Leave it as it is or have a guess at what the weaker counties wanted? We also heard of one player not voting at all as the GPA hadn't explained the proposal well enough. I'd be interested t see the specific split of GPA members' votes.

I'm delighted with what was passed with the two other motions. I think the Super 8 could be interesting but will fail with the potential for dead rubber games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on March 02, 2017, 02:58:45 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on March 02, 2017, 03:14:28 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Fuzzman on March 02, 2017, 03:23:26 PM
That's one way of looking at it Benny from a neutral who would think it could benefit them long term in their progress but I suppose it's a lot more rewarding when they beat a big team in a knock out game and progress to an AI semi.

Think back to 2008 when Tyrone beat Dublin in the quarterfinal in the rain. Can you imagine if he had won that game but then had to meet them again in the semi final or final. It's hard to spring a surprise twice, especially for a smaller county. If Tipp had to play Galway again I wonder would they have beaten them again.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2017, 03:35:08 PM
Who are the "weaker" teams?
Everyone apart from Dublin, Mayowestros and Kerry?
Div 4 teams?
Perennial non achievers like Laythrum, London, WIcklow,  Antrim, Waterford?
Are there degrees of weakness? Weak/Weaker/Weakest?
If say instead of a Round robin last 8 you had it for the other 24 who would have come through in 2017 to face the Provincial finalists?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 04:50:43 PM
Who are the "weaker" teams?
Everyone apart from Dublin, Mayowestros and Kerry?
Div 4 teams?
Perennial non achievers like Laythrum, London, WIcklow,  Antrim, Waterford?
Are there degrees of weakness? Weak/Weaker/Weakest?
If say instead of a Round robin last 8 you had it for the other 24 who would have come through in 2017 to face the Provincial finalists?
the only way to decide that is from the league
tghere you have 4  levels any one who misses out tough . try harder in next years league
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2017, 05:34:54 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.
Only for the lopsided A and B  Qualifiers of recent years no weak teams would get to the Quarters.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on March 02, 2017, 06:40:01 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

And get battered three times.

The GAA as an institution in the process of jumping the shark.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on March 02, 2017, 08:52:42 PM
That's one way of looking at it Benny from a neutral who would think it could benefit them long term in their progress but I suppose it's a lot more rewarding when they beat a big team in a knock out game and progress to an AI semi.

Think back to 2008 when Tyrone beat Dublin in the quarterfinal in the rain. Can you imagine if he had won that game but then had to meet them again in the semi final or final. It's hard to spring a surprise twice, especially for a smaller county. If Tipp had to play Galway again I wonder would they have beaten them again.

Ah come on Fuzz. That wasn't a wet behind the ears Tyrone team. They were a team full of players with AI medals in their back pockets and would have beaten that Dublin team every day of the week. If Tipp got two home games in the super 8 then they'd have a decent chance of getting out of their group. I actually don't mind the super 8 as a concept. It just doesn't solve any of the main problems.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 02, 2017, 09:04:39 PM
The problem is a weaker team get to the Super 8. And if they get an almighty hammering in round one, suffer a few injuries and suspensions. A week later they have to pull themselves together for round two. They meet a side with a strong squad who can handle the week turnaround, injuries and suspensions. Another beating ensues. You get the general gist for game 3. Game 3 could involve a team wanting to improve score difference to finish top and an almighty massacre is suffered.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2017, 09:07:02 PM
if A Weaker county get to the Quarter final now they will get 3 top class games something some leinster counties could take years besides to achieve
I can see why they would say the super 8's does not help the weaker counties but I fail to see how it hurts them.

And get battered three times.

The GAA as an institution in the process of jumping the shark.
Jumping the shark???? ??? ???
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on March 02, 2017, 09:13:42 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on March 02, 2017, 10:06:47 PM
The problem is a weaker team get to the Super 8. And if they get an almighty hammering in round one, suffer a few injuries and suspensions. A week later they have to pull themselves together for round two. They meet a side with a strong squad who can handle the week turnaround, injuries and suspensions. Another beating ensues. You get the general gist for game 3. Game 3 could involve a team wanting to improve score difference to finish top and an almighty massacre is suffered.
now hang on half the people are complaining the weaker team will get no where unfer the super 8's now your saying that it'll be  a problem if they do .
to reach that stage they will have had to have shown some form for a stage and not just turn up like to a 1st round provincial game.
plus it will some what boost their finances and show some of their players exactly what they need to do to escape the weaker team tag.
other wise Just cut the Weaker teams loose .
People's plan to progress weaker team seems to solely revolve around  a better team having a really bad day . it may make for a good day for one county but for a shit competition with unworthy winners
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: trileacman on March 02, 2017, 10:36:44 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?

3 big hammerings rather than one.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on March 02, 2017, 10:56:22 PM
I would imagine the weaker counties much preferred the current system where they can go on a good run of matches through the qualifiers, playing teams of similar levels and then have a crack at a provincial winner in Croke Park. Tipperary's win over Galway last year can be compared to Wexford and Fermanagh making it to the AI semi finals in previous years.

Yes teams like that can still make it to the last 8 but they have a much lesser chance now of coming out of a group of 4 with 2 provincial winners and another qualifier. If Tipperary were in a group with say Galway, Monaghan and Westmeath they might fancy their chances but as been said before it's much harder to beat 2 provincial winners, especially one at their home venue.

I'm a little confused about some people saying that the clubs will be without their county players for longer now.
Is this correct as I thought they will all be finished 1 month earlier?

Would so called weaker teams who are seriously looking to develop not embrace the super 8 and have three big games rather than one?

3 big hammerings rather than one.

So there's no other option than to have a two or three tier championship then. Otherwise we are going to get hammerings!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Derry Optimist on March 02, 2017, 11:08:43 PM
There is nothing wrong in principle with the concept of the Super 8  format as presently proposed.After all, every sport must have an elite layer of teams to make their sport achieve its true potential.

What is essentially wrong with these new proposals however  is that the GAA has not addressed the core problem - the real pressing needs of  the other 24 counties.As far as I can see no one in the top echelons of the GAA AND NO ONE in most of our County Boards will address the unpalatable but real fact that any All-Ireland championship that depends on being linked to the provincial championship is both unfair and definitely inequitable.
In most counties and at All Ireland club level we have three distinct championships
ie Senior,Intermediate and Junior.

These are competitive,fair  and equitable and most of all enjoyable (think Cuala,Ballyea,Slaughtneil and St Brigids) simply because every team is playing at their own level in any given year.This system allows them to compete equitably,be promoted or indeed relegated depending on their consistent performances over a period of time.

Too many counties have yearly. unrealistic expectations that this will be their year to win either the provincial or All Ireland Senior title. So they get the  most expensive manager who indulges them in the latest spartan training regime because everybody else is doing (this has gone from two nights a week training to five nights in some cases plus gym work)it.

Eventually the more intelligent players either drop out or reject an offer to join the panel.The remainder naturally lose interest. The manager resigns or retires or is sacked and the whole sorry cycle of yearly expectation quickly followed by total disillusionment starts all over again.The number of volunteers selling weekly lotto tickets and other various forms of fund raising get fed  eventually knocking doors and drift off into the sunset.If the current trend continues we will only be left with the Super 8!! and all our volunteers will be gone

That is why it is imperative that we have a three-tiered All Ireland championship ie Senior,Intermediate and Junior.Current placings in the National Football League should be the main criteria for deciding which championship each group plays in.

If the THE GAA Hierarchy,COUNTY BOARDS,GPA AND CPA  want Gaelic football to reach its full potential as a game and to treat all counties  and all players fairly and equally then this the only way forward.Otherwise we will all keep dreaming that next year will be our year for provincial or national Senior glory regardless of how good our players are!!

Over to all stakeholders and address the real problem.Our players,supporters and our great game deserves it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Gold on March 02, 2017, 11:36:20 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top already putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

This is championship football ffs
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: didlyi on March 02, 2017, 11:59:04 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: larryin89 on March 03, 2017, 07:23:16 AM
Brilliant idea, really looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 09:14:28 AM
Where did the Super 8 slogan come from? Media? I assumed it wasn't an official title.

Should be Elite Eight anyway. Like March Madness

More like Dublin + the Severely Substandard Seven.
But there's only 1 county Roscommon.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2017, 10:01:50 AM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2017, 10:23:33 AM
A lot if not most Counties have group stages in their Championships
BUT they have them at the start not 3 Quarters way through.
As I've said before then new system is voted in by the Congress, is there for 3 years so it's up to those opposed to it to
1 - devise and agree a better alternative
2- sell it to the GAA membership and County Boards
3- get it to Congress 2019 with a view to introducing it for Championship 2021.

Or we can rant in the media, twitter GAAboard etc etc
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on March 03, 2017, 10:31:42 AM
Disappointing but not surprising that this came in. We've tied ourselves to only the second change to our championship in our history for the next three years, which ultimately will be abandoned. Round robins don't work in our championships, we saw that previously when we had round robins in the hurling championship where teams were beaten two or three times but were still in the championship. It'll now be possible for teams to get beaten three times but still make the AI semi finals. Hopefully the CPA can bang enough heads together and come up with a workable solution in the next few months. If Duffy then puts half the effort behind a workable solution that he put behind this proposal a special congress next Autumn could see that this farce will never see the light of day.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2017, 11:17:57 AM
A lot if not most Counties have group stages in their Championships
BUT they have them at the start not 3 Quarters way through.
As I've said before then new system is voted in by the Congress, is there for 3 years so it's up to those opposed to it to
1 - devise and agree a better alternative
2- sell it to the GAA membership and County Boards
3- get it to Congress 2019 with a view to introducing it for Championship 2021.

Or we can rant in the media, twitter GAAboard etc etc


Can you name some counties that do? I asked about this a week ago and only Kildare, with a backdoor system, and Roscommon have a round robin sytem. It certainly isnt popular in Ulster. Derry tried it and it was a complete bollocks of a system, same as Duffys will be.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 03, 2017, 11:28:15 AM
Offaly has Round Robin, Tipperary has Round Robin.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Jinxy on March 03, 2017, 11:28:42 AM
We've group stages in Meath.
3 groups of 6.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2017, 11:38:44 AM
Pay attention Keyser. .I listed a scatter of them last week - all Connacht Cavan Meath Offaly Westmeath off the top of my head. Think Wexford also.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on March 03, 2017, 11:40:43 AM
Pay attention Keyser. .I listed a scatter of them last week - all Connacht Cavan Meath Offaly Westmeath off the top of my head. Think Wexford also.

Waterford has as well.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 03, 2017, 01:00:46 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.

I've been accused of lacking respect for other opinions by labelling them rubbish but this is another example of the nonsense that is coming out of people criticising this.

Keyser do you genuinely believe that Pauric Duffy and numerous other senior GAA administrators never considered that a round robin format could lead to some dead rubber games? If so, then you are simply posting nonsense.

Of course there could, and will, be some dead rubbers but we could also have some tremendous last round games with teams needing to win and maybe win by 3 or 4 points to qualify while their opponents need at least a draw. If there is going to be hammerings and loads of dead rubbers when the best 8 teams meet then that's a clear admission that we have a handful of teams way ahead of everyone else so there isn't any format that will change that. However, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants. We could have two groups like this - Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan & Kildare and Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal & Galway. At the moment we probably have 6 competitive teams but there's no reason that one or two more can't close the gap. The above groups would be very competitive and While Dublin may be playing Kildare in a dead rubber Mayo and Kerry will be meeting in a do or die game.

The reason I have no time for the majority of criticism of the super 8's is because it is a decent proposal if you have to keep the provincials and if you want to get more structure and more games between the big teams. This format helps clubs and can help the weaker counties by giving them more money/resources (you know, the thing many on here claim is vital to closing the gap between the big teams and the rest) as a result of the revenue generated by the new games.

It's not, nor has it ever been promoted, as the solution to all problems so why people keep criticising it for what it's not is beyond me.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2017, 02:29:20 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.

I've been accused of lacking respect for other opinions by labelling them rubbish but this is another example of the nonsense that is coming out of people criticising this.

Keyser do you genuinely believe that Pauric Duffy and numerous other senior GAA administrators never considered that a round robin format could lead to some dead rubber games? If so, then you are simply posting nonsense.

Of course there could, and will, be some dead rubbers but we could also have some tremendous last round games with teams needing to win and maybe win by 3 or 4 points to qualify while their opponents need at least a draw. If there is going to be hammerings and loads of dead rubbers when the best 8 teams meet then that's a clear admission that we have a handful of teams way ahead of everyone else so there isn't any format that will change that. However, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants. We could have two groups like this - Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan & Kildare and Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal & Galway. At the moment we probably have 6 competitive teams but there's no reason that one or two more can't close the gap. The above groups would be very competitive and While Dublin may be playing Kildare in a dead rubber Mayo and Kerry will be meeting in a do or die game.

The reason I have no time for the majority of criticism of the super 8's is because it is a decent proposal if you have to keep the provincials and if you want to get more structure and more games between the big teams. This format helps clubs and can help the weaker counties by giving them more money/resources (you know, the thing many on here claim is vital to closing the gap between the big teams and the rest) as a result of the revenue generated by the new games.

It's not, nor has it ever been promoted, as the solution to all problems so why people keep criticising it for what it's not is beyond me.

Or all 4 final round games could just as easily be dead rubbers!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2017, 02:49:54 PM
Or the sky could fall in. ....
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2017, 04:54:52 PM
Sky could fall out if they hafta hype dead rubbers lol 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 04, 2017, 09:40:19 AM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.

I've been accused of lacking respect for other opinions by labelling them rubbish but this is another example of the nonsense that is coming out of people criticising this.

Keyser do you genuinely believe that Pauric Duffy and numerous other senior GAA administrators never considered that a round robin format could lead to some dead rubber games? If so, then you are simply posting nonsense.

Of course there could, and will, be some dead rubbers but we could also have some tremendous last round games with teams needing to win and maybe win by 3 or 4 points to qualify while their opponents need at least a draw. If there is going to be hammerings and loads of dead rubbers when the best 8 teams meet then that's a clear admission that we have a handful of teams way ahead of everyone else so there isn't any format that will change that. However, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants. We could have two groups like this - Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan & Kildare and Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal & Galway. At the moment we probably have 6 competitive teams but there's no reason that one or two more can't close the gap. The above groups would be very competitive and While Dublin may be playing Kildare in a dead rubber Mayo and Kerry will be meeting in a do or die game.

The reason I have no time for the majority of criticism of the super 8's is because it is a decent proposal if you have to keep the provincials and if you want to get more structure and more games between the big teams. This format helps clubs and can help the weaker counties by giving them more money/resources (you know, the thing many on here claim is vital to closing the gap between the big teams and the rest) as a result of the revenue generated by the new games.

It's not, nor has it ever been promoted, as the solution to all problems so why people keep criticising it for what it's not is beyond me.

Or all 4 final round games could just as easily be dead rubbers!

And the premiership is sometimes over with weeks to go, the last round of the six nations is sometimes irrelevant to who will be champions etc. Is the bar being set at perfect?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Owenmoresider on March 04, 2017, 03:49:48 PM
A lot if not most Counties have group stages in their Championships
BUT they have them at the start not 3 Quarters way through.
As I've said before then new system is voted in by the Congress, is there for 3 years so it's up to those opposed to it to
1 - devise and agree a better alternative
2- sell it to the GAA membership and County Boards
3- get it to Congress 2019 with a view to introducing it for Championship 2021.

Or we can rant in the media, twitter GAAboard etc etc


Can you name some counties that do? I asked about this a week ago and only Kildare, with a backdoor system, and Roscommon have a round robin sytem. It certainly isnt popular in Ulster. Derry tried it and it was a complete bollocks of a system, same as Duffys will be.
So Roscommon have a round robin and Kildare a back door, any others. I was sure Tyrone and Down had tried round robin in the past....anyone??

By my reckoning it breaks down thus:
Round Robin* - Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Donegal, Cavan, Longford, Westmeath, Meath, Louth, Offaly, Carlow, Wexford, Tipperary (& divisional c'ships), Limerick and Waterford.
Back Door - Galway, Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Clare, Cork, Kerry.
Straight KO - Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry, Antrim, Dublin.

* - you know where you can shove your "Champions League format" bollocks.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on March 04, 2017, 04:22:17 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.

I've been accused of lacking respect for other opinions by labelling them rubbish but this is another example of the nonsense that is coming out of people criticising this.

Keyser do you genuinely believe that Pauric Duffy and numerous other senior GAA administrators never considered that a round robin format could lead to some dead rubber games? If so, then you are simply posting nonsense.

Of course there could, and will, be some dead rubbers but we could also have some tremendous last round games with teams needing to win and maybe win by 3 or 4 points to qualify while their opponents need at least a draw. If there is going to be hammerings and loads of dead rubbers when the best 8 teams meet then that's a clear admission that we have a handful of teams way ahead of everyone else so there isn't any format that will change that. However, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants. We could have two groups like this - Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan & Kildare and Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal & Galway. At the moment we probably have 6 competitive teams but there's no reason that one or two more can't close the gap. The above groups would be very competitive and While Dublin may be playing Kildare in a dead rubber Mayo and Kerry will be meeting in a do or die game.

The reason I have no time for the majority of criticism of the super 8's is because it is a decent proposal if you have to keep the provincials and if you want to get more structure and more games between the big teams. This format helps clubs and can help the weaker counties by giving them more money/resources (you know, the thing many on here claim is vital to closing the gap between the big teams and the rest) as a result of the revenue generated by the new games.

It's not, nor has it ever been promoted, as the solution to all problems so why people keep criticising it for what it's not is beyond me.

Or all 4 final round games could just as easily be dead rubbers!

And the premiership is sometimes over with weeks to go, the last round of the six nations is sometimes irrelevant to who will be champions etc. Is the bar being set at perfect?

At least you're finally comparing Dublin with professional teams.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 06:18:08 PM
There will be some amount of dead rubber 3rd games. Teams who have won twice and qualified top alreadye putting out reserve sides for their 3rd match

Shite plan, not properly thought through

We could even see 2 teams playing for a draw to  qualify

Thks is championship football ffs


Agree with everything......and theres nothing worse than a dead rubber game at that late stage of a championship.

That's it in a nutshell.

These problems had arisen in various counties that tried round robin previously so didn't require much more than some basic research to identify some pretty significant potential drawbacks. The fact that Duffy is manifestly unable to identify these is atypical of your average GAA adminstrator. Get a bright idea, [usually shamelessly plagiarized from another sport] and get it pushed through without the slightest consideration that there might be some negatives associated with it.

I've been accused of lacking respect for other opinions by labelling them rubbish but this is another example of the nonsense that is coming out of people criticising this.

Keyser do you genuinely believe that Pauric Duffy and numerous other senior GAA administrators never considered that a round robin format could lead to some dead rubber games? If so, then you are simply posting nonsense.

Of course there could, and will, be some dead rubbers but we could also have some tremendous last round games with teams needing to win and maybe win by 3 or 4 points to qualify while their opponents need at least a draw. If there is going to be hammerings and loads of dead rubbers when the best 8 teams meet then that's a clear admission that we have a handful of teams way ahead of everyone else so there isn't any format that will change that. However, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants. We could have two groups like this - Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan & Kildare and Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal & Galway. At the moment we probably have 6 competitive teams but there's no reason that one or two more can't close the gap. The above groups would be very competitive and While Dublin may be playing Kildare in a dead rubber Mayo and Kerry will be meeting in a do or die game.

The reason I have no time for the majority of criticism of the super 8's is because it is a decent proposal if you have to keep the provincials and if you want to get more structure and more games between the big teams. This format helps clubs and can help the weaker counties by giving them more money/resources (you know, the thing many on here claim is vital to closing the gap between the big teams and the rest) as a result of the revenue generated by the new games.

It's not, nor has it ever been promoted, as the solution to all problems so why people keep criticising it for what it's not is beyond me.

Or all 4 final round games could just as easily be dead rubbers!

And the premiership is sometimes over with weeks to go, the last round of the six nations is sometimes irrelevant to who will be champions etc. Is the bar being set at perfect?

Now you're getting it. Those are LEAGUE competitions. We are discussing championship!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 04, 2017, 06:40:03 PM
No lads, we are discussing competition formats. How do we structure ours so that all teams get a decent season, that's the discussion. We don't have it now and the super 8's won't deliver it but it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 06:55:38 PM
Here sure let everybody play away all summer and give everybody a medal and a cup at the end of it. And a kitbag and a bottle of Isotonic when ur at it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on March 04, 2017, 07:30:38 PM
Yep, because that's what we're saying. Good man keep posting utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 04, 2017, 07:53:09 PM
Keyser needs to get out more methinks.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Keyser soze on March 05, 2017, 11:23:38 AM
Keyser needs to get out more methinks.

From a man with over 10,000 posts  ::)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 05, 2017, 09:10:56 PM
In 13 years buck.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 28, 2017, 04:08:57 PM
Time to drag this up again, no craic without it.

So it seems that only 12% of club players agree with the Super 8 being introduced.

I would question the reasons for asking this question in isolation. I know there is much more to the survey they carried out but what would a club player have against the Super 8 in comparison to what they currently have?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2017, 04:49:18 PM
The hurley crowd are leaving their "League" the same format again next year so I presume there won't be changes to their Championship for a few more years at least.
As for the "Super 8" they've been approved at Congress.
Only difference for Club only players is that they should be out of their Championships earlier. Should help a lot of Junior soccer clubs mind you.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on March 28, 2017, 08:06:56 PM
The hurley crowd are leaving their "League" the same format again next year so I presume there won't be changes to their Championship for a few more years at least.
As for the "Super 8" they've been approved at Congress.
Only difference for Club only players is that they should be out of their Championships earlier. Should help a lot of Junior soccer clubs mind you.
That's what I mean. Surely they're answering a different question. Although it hasn't been disclosed what exactly they were asked.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2017, 12:07:19 PM
I see the hurley crowd are now talking about the need to revamp their Championship  due to the football revamp.
The Galway question also needs to be addressed.
A few questioning the value of the (gasp!shock!)Munster Championship.
Even Ger Loughnane  on Seó  Spóirt one night.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Lone Shark on April 02, 2017, 01:57:18 AM
I see some Meath heads are a bit peeved at the team that Kildare have picked for this weekend's game in Galway. A match that would be very competitive if both sides were at full strength, now sees Paddy Power lay odds of 1/14 Galway and 9/1 Kildare, with an 8 point handicap.

If Meath are annoyed now, imagine if this happened in the championship, at the quarter final stages? I cannot get my head around why no-one is considering the absolute sh1tstorm that will be unleashed when this finally happens.

Moreover, has anybody outlined what will happen in the event of a walkover in a game like that?

Think logically for a moment, and imagine I'm the Dublin manager, in a super eight group featuring the Dubs, Kerry, provincial winners, and we'll say Cavan and Kildare for the sake of argument. The first four results are:

Dublin beat Cavan in Breffni
Kildare and Kerry draw in Newbridge

Kildare beat Cavan in Croke Park
Dublin beat Kerry in Croke Park

Final round is coming up, and Kerry will almost certainly beat Cavan in Killarney- but if Dublin don't beat Kildare, Kerry wwill be knocked out regardless- and with all due respect to Kildare, there's only one of those teams that represents a potential threat to Dublin in an All Ireland final.

Moreover, why in the name of God would I risk injuries in that game? Surely the logical thing to do for both reasons is to either concede a walkover, or else give a full game to the players in my squad that are effectively numbers 21-35. Are we ready for the riots that would ensue when that happens?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: joemamas on April 02, 2017, 03:36:52 AM
Fair and good point.
You just hope that managers have some integrity, on the other hand if you don't control your own destiny a la Meath tomorrow then can you really blame somebody else
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on April 02, 2017, 09:55:19 AM
This is the bother with a dead rubber last round game, especially if it is only a dead rubber game for one of the contestants. It will in turn make the other fixture in the group redundant as well.

The thing I hate most about Super 8 is that you can beat Beat Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Mayo in the home run of the championship after any of them could have been beaten in their provincial Championship and they could still have to be beaten in a final. It's just wrong giving teams so many chances.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on April 02, 2017, 10:49:13 AM
I see some Meath heads are a bit peeved at the team that Kildare have picked for this weekend's game in Galway. A match that would be very competitive if both sides were at full strength, now sees Paddy Power lay odds of 1/14 Galway and 9/1 Kildare, with an 8 point handicap.

If Meath are annoyed now, imagine if this happened in the championship, at the quarter final stages? I cannot get my head around why no-one is considering the absolute sh1tstorm that will be unleashed when this finally happens.

Moreover, has anybody outlined what will happen in the event of a walkover in a game like that?

Think logically for a moment, and imagine I'm the Dublin manager, in a super eight group featuring the Dubs, Kerry, provincial winners, and we'll say Cavan and Kildare for the sake of argument. The first four results are:

Dublin beat Cavan in Breffni
Kildare and Kerry draw in Newbridge

Kildare beat Cavan in Croke Park
Dublin beat Kerry in Croke Park

Final round is coming up, and Kerry will almost certainly beat Cavan in Killarney- but if Dublin don't beat Kildare, Kerry wwill be knocked out regardless- and with all due respect to Kildare, there's only one of those teams that represents a potential threat to Dublin in an All Ireland final.

Moreover, why in the name of God would I risk injuries in that game? Surely the logical thing to do for both reasons is to either concede a walkover, or else give a full game to the players in my squad that are effectively numbers 21-35. Are we ready for the riots that would ensue when that happens?
Although your general point about the dead rubbers is valid, to quote from the proposal itself: "Again, critics seem to expect an ideal in the GAA that does not exist anywhere else - there is a risk of a ‘dead rubber’ game in every kind of round-robin format
in every sport. Moreover, many of our counties are happy to play their club championships on this basis. In addition – and very importantly – the fact that the two provincial champions in each of the groups play each other in the first game reduces the likelihood of meaningless games in Round 3."

In your example, Dublin would play Kerry and Cavan would play Kidare in the first game.

Also, Kildare drawing against Kerry? Sure I thought the small teams had no chance in this format :)

Finally, if players decide to pass up a game against a Top 8 team in July/August then it might say a lot about them. I know that's easy for me to say and it might seem harsh, but surely players want to play the big teams in order to grow, even if there isn't an immediate benefit to it?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: OgraAnDun on April 02, 2017, 12:04:50 PM
Fair and good point.
You just hope that managers have some integrity, on the other hand if you don't control your own destiny a la Meath tomorrow then can you really blame somebody else

It's not really about integrity, if you've already qualified (like Kildare have been promoted), then the manager has every right to rest a few players, see how good the bench is and avoid any possible injuries to the main men.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on April 02, 2017, 01:18:12 PM
I see some Meath heads are a bit peeved at the team that Kildare have picked for this weekend's game in Galway. A match that would be very competitive if both sides were at full strength, now sees Paddy Power lay odds of 1/14 Galway and 9/1 Kildare, with an 8 point handicap.

If Meath are annoyed now, imagine if this happened in the championship, at the quarter final stages? I cannot get my head around why no-one is considering the absolute sh1tstorm that will be unleashed when this finally happens.

Moreover, has anybody outlined what will happen in the event of a walkover in a game like that?

Think logically for a moment, and imagine I'm the Dublin manager, in a super eight group featuring the Dubs, Kerry, provincial winners, and we'll say Cavan and Kildare for the sake of argument. The first four results are:

Dublin beat Cavan in Breffni
Kildare and Kerry draw in Newbridge

Kildare beat Cavan in Croke Park
Dublin beat Kerry in Croke Park

Final round is coming up, and Kerry will almost certainly beat Cavan in Killarney- but if Dublin don't beat Kildare, Kerry wwill be knocked out regardless- and with all due respect to Kildare, there's only one of those teams that represents a potential threat to Dublin in an All Ireland final.

Moreover, why in the name of God would I risk injuries in that game? Surely the logical thing to do for both reasons is to either concede a walkover, or else give a full game to the players in my squad that are effectively numbers 21-35. Are we ready for the riots that would ensue when that happens?
Although your general point about the dead rubbers is valid, to quote from the proposal itself: "Again, critics seem to expect an ideal in the GAA that does not exist anywhere else - there is a risk of a ‘dead rubber’ game in every kind of round-robin format
in every sport. Moreover, many of our counties are happy to play their club championships on this basis. In addition – and very importantly – the fact that the two provincial champions in each of the groups play each other in the first game reduces the likelihood of meaningless games in Round 3."

In your example, Dublin would play Kerry and Cavan would play Kidare in the first game.

Also, Kildare drawing against Kerry? Sure I thought the small teams had no chance in this format :)

Finally, if players decide to pass up a game against a Top 8 team in July/August then it might say a lot about them. I know that's easy for me to say and it might seem harsh, but surely players want to play the big teams in order to grow, even if there isn't an immediate benefit to it?

RUBBISH! Players don't decide to play. Managers decide if they play! There will be dead rubber games. This is a fact! Players will be rested by the teams with bigger squads in games of less importance. Super 8 will give the Dublin (especially), Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Mayo more breathing space.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on April 02, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
I see some Meath heads are a bit peeved at the team that Kildare have picked for this weekend's game in Galway. A match that would be very competitive if both sides were at full strength, now sees Paddy Power lay odds of 1/14 Galway and 9/1 Kildare, with an 8 point handicap.

If Meath are annoyed now, imagine if this happened in the championship, at the quarter final stages? I cannot get my head around why no-one is considering the absolute sh1tstorm that will be unleashed when this finally happens.

Moreover, has anybody outlined what will happen in the event of a walkover in a game like that?

Think logically for a moment, and imagine I'm the Dublin manager, in a super eight group featuring the Dubs, Kerry, provincial winners, and we'll say Cavan and Kildare for the sake of argument. The first four results are:

Dublin beat Cavan in Breffni
Kildare and Kerry draw in Newbridge

Kildare beat Cavan in Croke Park
Dublin beat Kerry in Croke Park

Final round is coming up, and Kerry will almost certainly beat Cavan in Killarney- but if Dublin don't beat Kildare, Kerry wwill be knocked out regardless- and with all due respect to Kildare, there's only one of those teams that represents a potential threat to Dublin in an All Ireland final.

Moreover, why in the name of God would I risk injuries in that game? Surely the logical thing to do for both reasons is to either concede a walkover, or else give a full game to the players in my squad that are effectively numbers 21-35. Are we ready for the riots that would ensue when that happens?
Although your general point about the dead rubbers is valid, to quote from the proposal itself: "Again, critics seem to expect an ideal in the GAA that does not exist anywhere else - there is a risk of a ‘dead rubber’ game in every kind of round-robin format
in every sport. Moreover, many of our counties are happy to play their club championships on this basis. In addition – and very importantly – the fact that the two provincial champions in each of the groups play each other in the first game reduces the likelihood of meaningless games in Round 3."

In your example, Dublin would play Kerry and Cavan would play Kidare in the first game.

Also, Kildare drawing against Kerry? Sure I thought the small teams had no chance in this format :)

Finally, if players decide to pass up a game against a Top 8 team in July/August then it might say a lot about them. I know that's easy for me to say and it might seem harsh, but surely players want to play the big teams in order to grow, even if there isn't an immediate benefit to it?

RUBBISH! Players don't decide to play. Managers decide if they play! There will be dead rubber games. This is a fact! Players will be rested by the teams with bigger squads in games of less importance. Super 8 will give the Dublin (especially), Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Mayo more breathing space.
I meant if players from the teams that are already out decide to leave the panel with a game left. Managers would have no say in that case.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on April 02, 2017, 02:02:56 PM
This is the bother with a dead rubber last round game, especially if it is only a dead rubber game for one of the contestants. It will in turn make the other fixture in the group redundant as well.

The thing I hate most about Super 8 is that you can beat Beat Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Mayo in the home run of the championship after any of them could have been beaten in their provincial Championship and they could still have to be beaten in a final. It's just wrong giving teams so many chances.

You hate giving teams more games?? So what if they could be beaten twice and still win the All Ireland? There's hardly a major team sport competition in the world that is straight knockout. In an era of mass sports coverage only a mad man would argue for less
GAA games. We need more bloody games not less.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on April 02, 2017, 06:49:26 PM
This is the bother with a dead rubber last round game, especially if it is only a dead rubber game for one of the contestants. It will in turn make the other fixture in the group redundant as well.

The thing I hate most about Super 8 is that you can beat Beat Dublin, Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry, Mayo in the home run of the championship after any of them could have been beaten in their provincial Championship and they could still have to be beaten in a final. It's just wrong giving teams so many chances.

You hate giving teams more games?? So what if they could be beaten twice and still win the All Ireland? There's hardly a major team sport competition in the world that is straight knockout. In an era of mass sports coverage only a mad man would argue for less
GAA games. We need more bloody games not less.

How many intercounty games do you go to in a Summer?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on April 02, 2017, 06:52:07 PM
Zero for most of the past six or seven years, why?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on April 03, 2017, 12:01:32 AM
Zero for most of the past six or seven years, why?

You see, you want more games! But you won't be traipsing around the country to go see them. It costs a lot of money and time! We already have enough games in the Summer. It's ok for the Dubs all the games are on their door-step. Time and money to go to games are a lot less for them. You'll give me the yarn of the Super 8 giving home games. But that, like all the other promises is baloney! Dublin will play all their games in Croker unless their last game is a Dead Rubber!

I'm guessing you are not living in Ireland and this is the reason you can't make it to games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on April 03, 2017, 12:33:12 AM
Yep, abroad. Games are primarily for the players. Of course I understand it's costly for supporters but that's hardly a reason not to have them. Supporters can choose not go to some games if they can't afford it but we should still have them. Today was a perfect example of what our season should look like, lots of games between teams of similar ability dotted all over the country with big crowds. Now championship takes over and the God-awful provincial championships will bore us to death for two months before we get a few games worth taking about. I much prefer the league to the championship which is usually terrible bar one or two games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: moysider on April 03, 2017, 12:51:32 AM

I really enjoyed that stuff in Castlebar today. I would be of the opinion that the league is not broad enough. Not enough games imo. I'd scrap the early provincial stuff and have 3 divisions of 10 and a proper league without a final. It's all very well going on about the clubs but the only show in town really is the inter-county game. It's what drives the popularity of the sport.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 05, 2017, 10:03:39 AM
I see some Meath heads are a bit peeved at the team that Kildare have picked for this weekend's game in Galway. A match that would be very competitive if both sides were at full strength, now sees Paddy Power lay odds of 1/14 Galway and 9/1 Kildare, with an 8 point handicap.

If Meath are annoyed now, imagine if this happened in the championship, at the quarter final stages? I cannot get my head around why no-one is considering the absolute sh1tstorm that will be unleashed when this finally happens.

Moreover, has anybody outlined what will happen in the event of a walkover in a game like that?

Think logically for a moment, and imagine I'm the Dublin manager, in a super eight group featuring the Dubs, Kerry, provincial winners, and we'll say Cavan and Kildare for the sake of argument. The first four results are:

Dublin beat Cavan in Breffni
Kildare and Kerry draw in Newbridge

Kildare beat Cavan in Croke Park
Dublin beat Kerry in Croke Park

Final round is coming up, and Kerry will almost certainly beat Cavan in Killarney- but if Dublin don't beat Kildare, Kerry wwill be knocked out regardless- and with all due respect to Kildare, there's only one of those teams that represents a potential threat to Dublin in an All Ireland final.

Moreover, why in the name of God would I risk injuries in that game? Surely the logical thing to do for both reasons is to either concede a walkover, or else give a full game to the players in my squad that are effectively numbers 21-35. Are we ready for the riots that would ensue when that happens?

Yet another reason why round robins don't and won't work in our championship. Remember there used to be one in the hurling championship after you got knocked out of your provincial championship and they had to get rid of it due to lack of interest and teams qualifying out of it after loosing two games? Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. CPA have a proposal they are ready to bring forward apparently, very interested to see what they have come up with.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on April 05, 2017, 11:47:45 AM
Bottom line is that what we have isn't working so whatever about the weaknesses of a round robin it's worth experimenting with until we are willing to grasp the nettle and make real changes.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on April 05, 2017, 11:58:20 AM
Problem with that is we have to hold on to the nettle for three years now. And it'll be the clubs and the weaker counties, the 99.9%, that will feel the sting for three more years than they have to. Short sighted and dollar orientated.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on April 05, 2017, 12:07:37 PM
Bottom line is that what we have isn't working so whatever about the weaknesses of a round robin it's worth experimenting with until we are willing to grasp the nettle and make real changes.

The current system works better only if your only concern is the bank balance of the GAA. Tell clubs and counties that aren't Dublin or Mayo or Kerry it offers them any advantage or improvement.

I do wonder sometimes about you, Zulu.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2017, 12:19:38 PM


I do wonder sometimes about you, Zulu.
I'd say the feeling would be mutual.
In fact most of  us here wonder about Syfīn all the time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on April 05, 2017, 01:14:37 PM


I do wonder sometimes about you, Zulu.
I'd say the feeling would be mutual.
In fact most of  us here wonder about Syfīn all the time.

The voices in your head aren't real people.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2017, 11:10:14 AM
Something in the "Independent "(sic) today about the CPA not announcing their master fixtures blueprint just yet.
They had to revise it after the Congress decision to adopt the "Super 8" and they are in discussion with other "stakeholders".
It's believed their plan provides for dedicated weekends for Club fixtures and an AI Intermediate Inter County football championship.
Another group pinching my ideas  ???(SF on the future All Ireland set up).
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/cpa-underestimated-scale-of-problems-in-gaa-448162.html

Update from a real paper.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on May 30, 2017, 10:21:13 AM
Spailpín knows his stuff http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2017/05/the-football-championship-pageant-not.html (http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2017/05/the-football-championship-pageant-not.html)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on May 30, 2017, 10:40:11 AM
Spailpín knows his stuff http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2017/05/the-football-championship-pageant-not.html (http://spailpin.blogspot.ie/2017/05/the-football-championship-pageant-not.html)
Not bad. His last paragraph however has the intercounty season spanning up to nine months. Did he all of a sudden forget about the clubs?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on July 23, 2017, 09:16:37 AM
So with the final 8 very nearly sorted, would anyone really have the appetite now for a two group round robin tournament? Personally I think the knock out stage at qtr final stage is when the championship finally starts to crank into gear, i think I'd have no desire for a mini league now.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on July 23, 2017, 09:28:28 AM
So with the final 8 very nearly sorted, would anyone really have the appetite now for a two group round robin tournament? Personally I think the knock out stage at qtr final stage is when the championship finally starts to crank into gear, i think I'd have no desire for a mini league now.

Agreed!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on July 23, 2017, 09:34:40 AM
Yeah, now that this time is upon us it feels less desirable.

Time will tell I suppose.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 09:34:58 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2017, 09:39:25 AM
A trip to Salthill would be a nightmare ;D
Meanwhile we'd be with Kerry and probably Monaghan and Kildare.
I suppose Kildare's "home"game would be in Portlaoise?
And no doubt Dublin's home game and "neutral" game will bith be in CrokePark  of course.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on July 23, 2017, 10:00:21 AM
For the Mayo Season ticket holder it would have meant

Sligo(home)
Galway (away)
Derry (Home)
Clare (away)
Cork (Limerick)
Tyrone (away)
Dublin (away as usual)
Galway (home)
Kerry (Croke Park)
Dublin (away)

Just too many games and a huge financial and time cost!

Gaelic games has always been about decent rest time between games and the build up to the next game.

That is the reason I won't be renewing my season ticket next year!

How many chances can you be giving Kerry and Dublin to win an All Ireland?

How many extra games can you be putting on AMATEUR players and in consecutive weeks.

We have knock out in the Provincial series and we have knock out in the All Ireland series, why introduce this?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 10:07:46 AM
If you look at Kerry and dublins quarter final record I think you'll find no evidence to back up that the super 8s will make it easier for them. If anything it should give the 8 teams more of an even chance of getting through. Though it is unfair the dubs get two games in croke park but it also means another county will helping them.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 10:16:37 AM
For the Mayo Season ticket holder it would have meant

Sligo(home)
Galway (away)
Derry (Home)
Clare (away)
Cork (Limerick)
Tyrone (away)
Dublin (away as usual)
Galway (home)
Kerry (Croke Park)
Dublin (away)

Just too many games and a huge financial and time cost!

Gaelic games has always been about decent rest time between games and the build up to the next game.

That is the reason I won't be renewing my season ticket next year!

How many chances can you be giving Kerry and Dublin to win an All Ireland?

How many extra games can you be putting on AMATEUR players and in consecutive weeks.

We have knock out in the Provincial series and we have knock out in the All Ireland series, why introduce this?

It's as well you don't follow a soccer or rugby team. The one thing the gaa championship lacks is important games between the big teams at the height of summer. This will help improve that. Hopefully they use sensible pricing and have a ticket for the counties three games. Currently quarter finals are 30 or 35 Euro from memory, if you got three games for 45/50 surely everyone would be a winner.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 23, 2017, 10:21:08 AM
For the Mayo Season ticket holder it would have meant

Sligo(home)
Galway (away)
Derry (Home)
Clare (away)
Cork (Limerick)
Tyrone (away)
Dublin (away as usual)
Galway (home)
Kerry (Croke Park)
Dublin (away)

Just too many games and a huge financial and time cost!

Gaelic games has always been about decent rest time between games and the build up to the next game.

That is the reason I won't be renewing my season ticket next year!

How many chances can you be giving Kerry and Dublin to win an All Ireland?

How many extra games can you be putting on AMATEUR players and in consecutive weeks.

We have knock out in the Provincial series and we have knock out in the All Ireland series, why introduce this?

It's as well you don't follow a soccer or rugby team. The one thing the gaa championship lacks is important games between the big teams at the height of summer. This will help improve that. Hopefully they use sensible pricing and have a ticket for the counties three games. Currently quarter finals are 30 or 35 Euro from memory, if you got three games for 45/50 surely everyone would be a winner.

Apart from people who prefer their amateur sports competitions not be dominated by the same four or five semi-pro sides..

Duffy is to the national GAA what Prenty is to Connacht. Money is king, the dollar means more than fairness. What a terrible moment in the history of the sport.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 10:24:17 AM
Given the extra summer games they should shorten the leagues to free up time for clubs. Fir example expand division one and two to 12 teams but split it into two sixes. Top team from each section plays off in final. That would cut out a couple of years from counties seasons with them being potentially replaced by important championship games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 10:27:22 AM
For the Mayo Season ticket holder it would have meant

Sligo(home)
Galway (away)
Derry (Home)
Clare (away)
Cork (Limerick)
Tyrone (away)
Dublin (away as usual)
Galway (home)
Kerry (Croke Park)
Dublin (away)

Just too many games and a huge financial and time cost!

Gaelic games has always been about decent rest time between games and the build up to the next game.

That is the reason I won't be renewing my season ticket next year!

How many chances can you be giving Kerry and Dublin to win an All Ireland?

How many extra games can you be putting on AMATEUR players and in consecutive weeks.

We have knock out in the Provincial series and we have knock out in the All Ireland series, why introduce this?

It's as well you don't follow a soccer or rugby team. The one thing the gaa championship lacks is important games between the big teams at the height of summer. This will help improve that. Hopefully they use sensible pricing and have a ticket for the counties three games. Currently quarter finals are 30 or 35 Euro from memory, if you got three games for 45/50 surely everyone would be a winner.

Apart from people who prefer their amateur sports competitions not be dominated by the same four or five semi-pro sides..

Duffy is to the national GAA what Prenty is to Connacht. Money is king, the dollar means more than fairness. What a terrible moment in the history of the sport.

Up to the super 8s stage the championship will be run identical to now. Every county will have the exact same chance of reaching the super 8s as they do the quarter finals now. Talk of the same sides dominating is the usual type of hyper bole created by gaa fans when there is change.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
Reducing the NFL would mean  less games for the 24 "B" teams though.
Syfīn, Paraic Duffy didn't bring in the Super 8. Congress did.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 23, 2017, 10:37:28 AM
Reducing the NFL would mean  less games for the 24 "B" teams though.
Syfīn, Paraic Duffy didn't bring in the Super 8. Congress did.

Did you type that with a straight face? I suppose they brought in the destruction of the U21 grade too, all without any serious lobbying from their boss in HQ?

Christ on a stripper pole you can obsess over semantics for no reason at all sometimes.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 23, 2017, 10:38:22 AM
Reducing the NFL would mean  less games for the 24 "B" teams though.
Syfīn, Paraic Duffy didn't bring in the Super 8. Congress did.

The league is a warm up to the championship. There is far too many warm up games played in county football that no one loses any sleep over if they win or lose. Few less league games wouldn't do anyone any harm.

And there won't be 24 b teams. Every team will have same chance of reaching super 8 stage as they do quarter finals now. That isn't the same 8 teams every year. Undoubtedly the better teams will get there more than the weaker teams, that's the nature of sport. If the weaker teams want to play in the main championship the only way they'll be guaranteed competitive games every year  is through a handicap system.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Itchy on July 23, 2017, 02:15:34 PM
Looking at the last 8 I cant help but think how great the super 8 will be for the weaker counties. They can sit at home and admire the great games on TV and it will surely inspire them to greater things. Roll on 2018.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 23, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Looking at the last 8 I cant help but think how great the super 8 will be for the weaker counties. They can sit at home and admire the great games on TV and it will surely inspire them to greater things. Roll on 2018.

It's not the first time a Cavan man has stood still in awe of Roscommon anyways.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 23, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Reducing the NFL would mean  less games for the 24 "B" teams though.
Syfīn, Paraic Duffy didn't bring in the Super 8. Congress did.
:D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on July 23, 2017, 09:43:07 PM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

First year will be good, 2nd & 3rd probably too but after a few years, it'll become stale and crowds will drop off
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 23, 2017, 10:04:36 PM
within 10 years you will have 8 groups of 4
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on July 23, 2017, 11:53:11 PM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2017, 12:27:39 AM
Paraic Duffy didn't bring in the Super 8. Congress did.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 24, 2017, 01:07:21 AM
Imagine the totally uninspiring match-ups we'd have got this year - Galway, Roscommon and Mayo would all be playing teams they've already played this summer. The system is insane.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Hound on July 24, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?
If Leinster champions next year, Dublin will get 2 games in Croker in the Super 8. But they won't get all 3. All games between provincial champions will be at Croker. Of the 2 games against the qualifiers one will be in Croke Park, the other will be away.

Quote
Imagine the totally uninspiring match-ups we'd have got this year - Galway, Roscommon and Mayo would all be playing teams they've already played this summer. The system is insane.
A and B will be gone next year. So if the Super 8 was in place this year, Galway and Mayo would both have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Roscommon. Not sure if its in, but would probably make sense to keep provincial runners up in opposite group to provincial winners.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 24, 2017, 08:20:19 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?

If that's the way the draw works out then yes they would. I'd be very confident it would happen. Now if they were to play a team with a smaller ground than Castlebar it could get moved. For example if they played Tyrone the game could well be moved from Omagh which holds 18000 to the new casement which will hold 34000. No idea why you think it would get moved to croke park or think the other counties would let it happen.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 24, 2017, 08:22:50 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?
If Leinster champions next year, Dublin will get 2 games in Croker in the Super 8. But they won't get all 3. All games between provincial champions will be at Croker. Of the 2 games against the qualifiers one will be in Croke Park, the other will be away.

Quote
Imagine the totally uninspiring match-ups we'd have got this year - Galway, Roscommon and Mayo would all be playing teams they've already played this summer. The system is insane.
A and B will be gone next year. So if the Super 8 was in place this year, Galway and Mayo would both have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Roscommon. Not sure if its in, but would probably make sense to keep provincial runners up in opposite group to provincial winners.

I'm pretty sure they will be keeping the provincial champions apart next year. So one of the groups based on this year would have been tyrone, Dublin, mayo and Galway. Some group that would have been. If the favourites win next Saturday the other group would have been Kerry Roscommon Kildare and Monaghan. Plenty of interesting games in there.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on July 24, 2017, 09:38:30 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?

If that's the way the draw works out then yes they would. I'd be very confident it would happen. Now if they were to play a team with a smaller ground than Castlebar it could get moved. For example if they played Tyrone the game could well be moved from Omagh which holds 18000 to the new casement which will hold 34000. No idea why you think it would get moved to croke park or think the other counties would let it happen.

Why do Leinster Counties let Dublin play early rounds in Croker ------ MONEY! If Mayo were to play Dublin there is no way the game would be in McHale Park. Corporate Boxes, Ground capacity, You name it. This is the real world. for god sake Mayo and Kerry had to play a replay in Limerick in case an unplayed Dublin game ended in a draw!

Money, Money, Money.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2017, 10:02:43 AM
Kerry Mayo was in Limerick because of that American Football bollix.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on July 24, 2017, 10:04:58 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?

If that's the way the draw works out then yes they would. I'd be very confident it would happen. Now if they were to play a team with a smaller ground than Castlebar it could get moved. For example if they played Tyrone the game could well be moved from Omagh which holds 18000 to the new casement which will hold 34000. No idea why you think it would get moved to croke park or think the other counties would let it happen.

Why do Leinster Counties let Dublin play early rounds in Croker ------ MONEY! If Mayo were to play Dublin there is no way the game would be in McHale Park. Corporate Boxes, Ground capacity, You name it. This is the real world. for god sake Mayo and Kerry had to play a replay in Limerick in case an unplayed Dublin game ended in a draw!

Money, Money, Money.
You really have backed that horse and flogged it to death.

I hope for your sake that the games are in Croker. :)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 24, 2017, 10:05:18 AM
Kerry Mayo was in Limerick because of that American Football bollix.
How did that go?

The american football, I mean
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: rosnarun on July 24, 2017, 10:31:47 AM
Every one wants to change the structures but I don't think I have ever seen 2 identical plans
most people whole idea on structure seems to be based around the fact that Longford or leitrim have to be involved ion the business end no matter how poor they are
the only way to do that is have multiple competitions like the hurley boys
any  one want that? I didn't think so
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on July 24, 2017, 10:35:20 AM
Every one wants to change the structures but I don't think I have ever seen 2 identical plans
most people whole idea on structure seems to be based around the fact that Longford or leitrim have to be involved ion the business end no matter how poor they are
the only way to do that is have multiple competitions like the hurley boys
any  one want that? I didn't think so
Exactly, and the clubs in these counties are delighted they'll be out earlier next year so they can get their championships run off in the summer months.

Impossible to keep everyone happy and that's before considering that you needed 67% agreement to pass anything.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 24, 2017, 10:36:08 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?

If that's the way the draw works out then yes they would. I'd be very confident it would happen. Now if they were to play a team with a smaller ground than Castlebar it could get moved. For example if they played Tyrone the game could well be moved from Omagh which holds 18000 to the new casement which will hold 34000. No idea why you think it would get moved to croke park or think the other counties would let it happen.

Why do Leinster Counties let Dublin play early rounds in Croker ------ MONEY! If Mayo were to play Dublin there is no way the game would be in McHale Park. Corporate Boxes, Ground capacity, You name it. This is the real world. for god sake Mayo and Kerry had to play a replay in Limerick in case an unplayed Dublin game ended in a draw!

Money, Money, Money.

Dublin have played outside croke park in the championship the last two years. They play their league games away from home like everyone else. There is no doubt they will play one the three games outside croke park.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 24, 2017, 10:38:19 AM
This year wouldn't have been the worst year for it. You'd have had a group for example of Tyrone Dublin Mayo and Galway. That surely would lead to some great games. Dublin would have headed potentially to castkebar for a championship game which would be great. As a Tyrone fan a trip to Galway would be nice and a big home game to Mayo would be some occasion. The worry would be the last round of games could have teams playing for nothing.

Dublin play a Championship game in Castlebar - Are you on drugs! Do you still believe in Santa?

If that's the way the draw works out then yes they would. I'd be very confident it would happen. Now if they were to play a team with a smaller ground than Castlebar it could get moved. For example if they played Tyrone the game could well be moved from Omagh which holds 18000 to the new casement which will hold 34000. No idea why you think it would get moved to croke park or think the other counties would let it happen.

Why do Leinster Counties let Dublin play early rounds in Croker ------ MONEY! If Mayo were to play Dublin there is no way the game would be in McHale Park. Corporate Boxes, Ground capacity, You name it. This is the real world. for god sake Mayo and Kerry had to play a replay in Limerick in case an unplayed Dublin game ended in a draw!

Money, Money, Money.

Dublin have played outside croke park in the championship the last two years. They play their league games away from home like everyone else. There is no doubt they will play one the three games outside croke park.

By the fúcking definition of this insane system it should be two.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Redhand Santa on July 24, 2017, 10:38:44 AM
Colm O'Rourke wrote an article saying it hasn't been a good championship and he based it on the fact that there is only one team in division 3 or 4 in the last 12. What is the obsession with wanting poor teams to out perform better teams? It doesn't happen in any other sport. Armagh are the only division 3 team left on merit. Tipperary easily could have been there too. The championship is set up nicely with a lot of good teams left.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: AZOffaly on July 24, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
Lads who want to change the format can't be seen saying it's a good championship, otherwise why would you change it? I just don't listen to those lads anymore. I think it's been a very good championship so far. Fluctuations in quality, sure. A few hammerings, sure. But in general some close, competitive, exciting games. That's what we want most of all.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on July 24, 2017, 10:57:12 AM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2017, 11:12:17 AM
Kerry Mayo was in Limerick because of that American Football bollix.
How did that go?

The american football, I mean

Penn state scored a field goal with the last kick to defeat university of Florida if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2017, 11:14:23 AM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on July 24, 2017, 11:39:04 AM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on July 24, 2017, 11:40:49 AM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.
I can just imagine the research and analysis O'Rourke would do if asked to cover a Junior Championship match between Leitrim and Wicklow.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2017, 12:38:35 PM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.

This notion that weaker teams have a right to be in the latter stages isn't right. Teams should be there on merit, not pity.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Orior on July 24, 2017, 09:34:36 PM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.

This notion that weaker teams have a right to be in the latter stages isn't right. Teams should be there on merit, not pity.

It is also inherently unfair, because some counties have less population, less clubs and less players than others.

I'm not in favour of the super 8's, even though Armagh would have benefited from it in the past. The new system takes away from the magic of the knockout stages.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2017, 10:10:43 PM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.

This notion that weaker teams have a right to be in the latter stages isn't right. Teams should be there on merit, not pity.

It is also inherently unfair, because some counties have less population, less clubs and less players than others.

I'm not in favour of the super 8's, even though Armagh would have benefited from it in the past. The new system takes away from the magic of the knockout stages.

I hear you. Quarter final days are always nice. Don't see how super 8 helps weaker counties anyway if they qualification for a quarter final is still the same.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on July 24, 2017, 10:24:49 PM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.

So every club championship in every county is elitist? Would you go to the smallest club at the bottom of Div 4 in Leitrim and tell them that they should be playing senior football? Would they want to? The situation at county level where there are the haves and have nots is replicated in every county in Ireland and the problem is solved by a tiered championship / league structure which seems to work for all. In fact many clubs would actively avoid a grade 1 / senior place if they thought they had no chance of winning the competition. If teams develop over a period of time they can still compete in the senior championship via promotions. The challenge is finding a way that isn't just a Tommy Murphy rehash!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on July 25, 2017, 09:50:45 AM
Complaining that the bottom 16 teams don't get to the closing stages of the CHAMPIONSHIP. :o
What do they want - a handicap system?

Exactly. If they want to make the final stages of the championship they should work harder. If Clare/Tipperary can come on leaps and bounds in football then there's no excuse.

Go to Leitrim and spout your elitism, please.

This notion that weaker teams have a right to be in the latter stages isn't right. Teams should be there on merit, not pity.

It is also inherently unfair, because some counties have less population, less clubs and less players than others.

I'm not in favour of the super 8's, even though Armagh would have benefited from it in the past. The new system takes away from the magic of the knockout stages.

I hear you. Quarter final days are always nice. Don't see how super 8 helps weaker counties anyway if they qualification for a quarter final is still the same.
The only case I remember being made for the smaller counties, with regards to the Super 8, is that if a smaller team was to make it that far, then they would be guaranteed three games against top opposition, rather than just one.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on July 25, 2017, 10:00:14 AM
The only case I remember being made for the smaller counties, with regards to the Super 8, is that if a smaller team was to make it that far, then they would be guaranteed three games against top opposition, rather than just one.

three times the fun

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Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Orior on July 25, 2017, 10:11:53 AM
The timing just isn't right there, lol. Quite hypnotic all the same.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Aughafad on August 01, 2017, 07:09:42 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but if the super 8s were in operation this year, the groups would be:

Group A - Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway
Group B - Kerry, Roscommon, Monaghan, Armagh

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but if the super 8s were in operation this year, the groups would be:

Group A - Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway
Group B - Kerry, Roscommon, Monaghan, Armagh

Thats correct.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Aughafad on August 01, 2017, 07:25:18 PM
Group A would be good but Group B is a bit Meh!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 01, 2017, 07:33:20 PM
Group A would be good but Group B is a bit Meh!

Neither group would be good. The only one of consequence in A would be Mayo-Tyrone as it would decide the runner up.

People should do well to remember that being runner up in the group that doesn't contain Dublin will mean the 'carrot' is a death sentence in the AISF every time.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 01, 2017, 07:39:57 PM
Group A would be good but Group B is a bit Meh!
Be a great battle for 2nd place though.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 08:07:36 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time. 

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 08:37:22 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 01, 2017, 08:43:32 PM
Way things are going the Rhubarbs won't have to worry about the so called "Super 8" next couple of years.
Has an official title been picked yet? I'd expect the "All Ireland Series"
I presume a Kerry/ Dublin neutral game in 2019 will be in Páirc Phroinnsias UÍ Mhurchú ;D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on August 01, 2017, 08:48:08 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time.

Ah christ, the run through the qualifiers this year and last has been brilliant. Games every couple of weeks, always on the box if you're not able to make the games, what more could you want (apart from the obvious)?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrhardyannual on August 01, 2017, 08:49:03 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time.
Is there no end to the hyperbole! Super 8 will be the death of family time! Why not throw in the Rosary, Mass, the Rural way of life and anything else you want. Mayo people like me and my children go to matches because they enjoy them and because they are family outings' If the cost is too great, people will stop attending and prices will fall.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 08:52:26 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrhardyannual on August 01, 2017, 08:53:06 PM
Group A would be good but Group B is a bit Meh!

Neither group would be good. The only one of consequence in A would be Mayo-Tyrone as it would decide the runner up.

People should do well to remember that being runner up in the group that doesn't contain Dublin will mean the 'carrot' is a death sentence in the AISF every time.
The beauty of sport is that results do not always follow predictions. Why did underdogs Roscommon win the Connacht title when the dogs in the street would have told them they had no chance?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 09:26:30 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 01, 2017, 09:30:01 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.

If you want people to take you seriously just admit you're a Dub and stop trying to hide it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 09:42:26 PM
Syferus, turn off your computer before your mother grounds you for being up too late and let the adults talk.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 01, 2017, 09:52:25 PM
Syferus, turn off your computer before your mother grounds you for been up too late and let the adults talk.

So you're not going to admit it, then?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: anportmorforjfc on August 01, 2017, 09:54:22 PM
Syferus, turn off your computer before your mother grounds you for been up too late and let the adults talk.

Your in some form the night Zulu  :P
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 09:55:23 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.

Ah, sure we all do that! Those one off events. Great fun! But here we are having days out where in my case you are dealing with Multiples of 5 (if you bring the family). Croke Park and Dublin are not user friendly when it comes to Families. Family tickets are usually located in the Davin and Don't dare even think about buying food. If you are foolish enough to go by train it's more fun!

The GAA showed total disregard for (the loyal) Mayo supporters especially by having this game in Croke Park a day before they go back to work on a Bank Holiday Weekend. Two decent venues in Connacht that could have facilitated the game and brought a bit of Revenue to one of those towns. But you have no worries about any of these issues. It's on the TV, you'll be grand!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 10:02:32 PM
Syferus, turn off your computer before your mother grounds you for been up too late and let the adults talk.

So you're not going to admit it, then?

Admit to being a Dub? No, because I'm not but if it makes you feel better carry on believing it.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 10:14:14 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.

Ah, sure we all do that! Those one off events. Great fun! But here we are having days out where in my case you are dealing with Multiples of 5 (if you bring the family). Croke Park and Dublin are not user friendly when it comes to Families. Family tickets are usually located in the Davin and Don't dare even think about buying food. If you are foolish enough to go by train it's more fun!

The GAA showed total disregard for (the loyal) Mayo supporters especially by having this game in Croke Park a day before they go back to work on a Bank Holiday Weekend. Two decent venues in Connacht that could have facilitated the game and brought a bit of Revenue to one of those towns. But you have no worries about any of these issues. It's on the TV, you'll be grand!

You don't have tournaments as costly as ours to attend so get off that high horse, I and many others abroad have to pay huge money to promote our games.

You have a choice about attending games. I was at the Cork game and while there was a great Mayo crowd there it wasn't as big as what attended last Sunday so if cost is an issue you can watch one game on TV. Now that's not to say I'm not sympathetic of the cost to families going to games and I'd have no issue if the replay was in Connacht but spare me your nonsense regarding the super 8. We want more games and this is a great time to be a Mayo supporter and I'm sure everyone is enjoying it even if the credit card is getting s bit of a hammering.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 01, 2017, 10:25:28 PM
Has an official title been picked yet?
Duffys chosen eight or my way or the highway.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 10:30:16 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.

Ah, sure we all do that! Those one off events. Great fun! But here we are having days out where in my case you are dealing with Multiples of 5 (if you bring the family). Croke Park and Dublin are not user friendly when it comes to Families. Family tickets are usually located in the Davin and Don't dare even think about buying food. If you are foolish enough to go by train it's more fun!

The GAA showed total disregard for (the loyal) Mayo supporters especially by having this game in Croke Park a day before they go back to work on a Bank Holiday Weekend. Two decent venues in Connacht that could have facilitated the game and brought a bit of Revenue to one of those towns. But you have no worries about any of these issues. It's on the TV, you'll be grand!

You don't have tournaments as costly as ours to attend so get off that high horse, I and many others abroad have to pay huge money to promote our games.

You have a choice about attending games. I was at the Cork game and while there was a great Mayo crowd there it wasn't as big as what attended last Sunday so if cost is an issue you can watch one game on TV. Now that's not to say I'm not sympathetic of the cost to families going to games and I'd have no issue if the replay was in Connacht but spare me your nonsense regarding the super 8. We want more games and this is a great time to be a Mayo supporter and I'm sure everyone is enjoying it even if the credit card is getting s bit of a hammering.

Of course I have a choice as such! But being a Season ticket holder, You are debited unless you use your Opt out option. I missed my Second Mayo Match last weekend - using the opt out. The only other game I missed was the Kerry League game. The constant Weekends of games has an effect on the kids training and chill out time. Getting to and from venues the last couple of weeks has been serious work. I am football mad! And love to go to games. But there are beginning to be to many games anymore in the Summer. The cost is another thing.  And the GAA are pumping up the prices. This I feel could be the last year of me having a Season Ticket. The Super 8 is the Big turnoff, It will add 2 more games to the year and I can see the boys in headquarters pull a few fast strokes in regards to prices and venues. I'm sure Sky will have an input into it aswell, so for the common supporter things won't get better.

Also Season Ticket holders Seats in Croke park get poorer and poorer each year. Won't be long until we are in the Davin with the Family tickets soon!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 01, 2017, 10:41:06 PM
There are a few issues there and I understand what you're saying in most respects but I don't agree that the super 8 is bad due to too many extra games. Players want them, supporters want them and the game needs them. Yes, some supporters will have to pick and choose their games but that's life. Surely, it's better to have more games even if you have to watch some of them on TV?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: RedHand88 on August 01, 2017, 10:43:21 PM
Family time???? For the love of Jesus. Poor Mayo playing football every week in the summer and their poor fans watching high quality sport every weekend. Why hasn't somebody organised a concert to help them in this time of tragedy?

Says the lad who has No COUNTY and goes to NO GAMES!

Your fellow countymen also dismissed your ridiculous hyperbole in posts just after me. When I did live in Ireland I attended regularly by the way and when I bring my club underage teams to tournaments it costs me hundreds of pounds per year as we usually have to travel hundreds of miles for tournaments and stay overnight so spare me your moaning about a trip to bloody Dublin.

Ah, sure we all do that! Those one off events. Great fun! But here we are having days out where in my case you are dealing with Multiples of 5 (if you bring the family). Croke Park and Dublin are not user friendly when it comes to Families. Family tickets are usually located in the Davin and Don't dare even think about buying food. If you are foolish enough to go by train it's more fun!

The GAA showed total disregard for (the loyal) Mayo supporters especially by having this game in Croke Park a day before they go back to work on a Bank Holiday Weekend. Two decent venues in Connacht that could have facilitated the game and brought a bit of Revenue to one of those towns. But you have no worries about any of these issues. It's on the TV, you'll be grand!

You don't have tournaments as costly as ours to attend so get off that high horse, I and many others abroad have to pay huge money to promote our games.

You have a choice about attending games. I was at the Cork game and while there was a great Mayo crowd there it wasn't as big as what attended last Sunday so if cost is an issue you can watch one game on TV. Now that's not to say I'm not sympathetic of the cost to families going to games and I'd have no issue if the replay was in Connacht but spare me your nonsense regarding the super 8. We want more games and this is a great time to be a Mayo supporter and I'm sure everyone is enjoying it even if the credit card is getting s bit of a hammering.

Of course I have a choice as such! But being a Season ticket holder, You are debited unless you use your Opt out option. I missed my Second Mayo Match last weekend - using the opt out. The only other game I missed was the Kerry League game. The constant Weekends of games has an effect on the kids training and chill out time. Getting to and from venues the last couple of weeks has been serious work. I am football mad! And love to go to games. But there are beginning to be to many games anymore in the Summer. The cost is another thing.  And the GAA are pumping up the prices. This I feel could be the last year of me having a Season Ticket. The Super 8 is the Big turnoff, It will add 2 more games to the year and I can see the boys in headquarters pull a few fast strokes in regards to prices and venues. I'm sure Sky will have an input into it aswell, so for the common supporter things won't get better.

Also Season Ticket holders Seats in Croke park get poorer and poorer each year. Won't be long until we are in the Davin with the Family tickets soon!

Nonsense, I know Tyrone are in 305/306 this weekend! Couldnt ask for better.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 11:22:01 PM
There are a few issues there and I understand what you're saying in most respects but I don't agree that the super 8 is bad due to too many extra games. Players want them, supporters want them and the game needs them. Yes, some supporters will have to pick and choose their games but that's life. Surely, it's better to have more games even if you have to watch some of them on TV?

It just favours Dublin and Bored Dublin fans. Everybody else it is just a nuisance and another money making racket by the GAA. To think Dublin could lose two games next year and end up AI Champions! How depressing is that? Not for you or Dublin fans naturally. ;)

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 01, 2017, 11:25:11 PM
There are a few issues there and I understand what you're saying in most respects but I don't agree that the super 8 is bad due to too many extra games. Players want them, supporters want them and the game needs them. Yes, some supporters will have to pick and choose their games but that's life. Surely, it's better to have more games even if you have to watch some of them on TV?
Exactly. In fairness I'm impressed with the originality and variety with which people are able to criticise this proposal, twelve months before it begins.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2017, 11:35:09 PM
There are a few issues there and I understand what you're saying in most respects but I don't agree that the super 8 is bad due to too many extra games. Players want them, supporters want them and the game needs them. Yes, some supporters will have to pick and choose their games but that's life. Surely, it's better to have more games even if you have to watch some of them on TV?

Sure even watching them on TV has become complicated, it is easier to go to the game.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Aughafad on August 01, 2017, 11:37:14 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time.

No they won't, as the rules voted in at congress state each team will have one game in croke park, one game at home and one away game which cannot be croke park.

In theory Dublin will have one game in croke park, one in Parnell and one in somewhere such as Castlebar.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 11:42:40 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time.

No they won't, as the rules voted in at congress state each team will have one game in croke park, one game at home and one away game which cannot be croke park.

In theory Dublin will have one game in croke park, one in Parnell and one in somewhere such as Castlebar.

Sounds Super Duper! Where is Parnell Park? Does it have a Press Box?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 01, 2017, 11:43:57 PM
Super 8 shows us how the Month of August will be destroyed for family time. Mayo fans have had a taste of week after week of consecutive games. All costing great amounts of Money and Time. Dublin will have no worries as their three Super 8 games as well as the AI semi final and Final will be all home games and cost them less in terms of money and time.

No they won't, as the rules voted in at congress state each team will have one game in croke park, one game at home and one away game which cannot be croke park.

In theory Dublin will have one game in croke park, one in Parnell and one in somewhere such as Castlebar.

Best joke I've heard all year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 11:49:07 PM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 01, 2017, 11:52:50 PM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2017, 11:57:12 PM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2017, 12:13:01 AM
This super 8 craic might drive one back to Season Ticket, if you thought there was a chance of Armagh getting in (and given their improvement there is such a chance) and of Dublin/Kerry etc coming to Armagh, then tickets might be scarce.

Sounds Super Duper! Where is Parnell Park? Does it have a Press Box?

Not sure about a press box, but it has a serious number of jacks.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 12:28:09 AM
There are a few issues there and I understand what you're saying in most respects but I don't agree that the super 8 is bad due to too many extra games. Players want them, supporters want them and the game needs them. Yes, some supporters will have to pick and choose their games but that's life. Surely, it's better to have more games even if you have to watch some of them on TV?

It just favours Dublin and Bored Dublin fans. Everybody else it is just a nuisance and another money making racket by the GAA. To think Dublin could lose two games next year and end up AI Champions! How depressing is that? Not for you or Dublin fans naturally. ;)

It's a nuisance to see more games involving your county in the summer? Ok so, I guess you can't wait until Mayo fall back into the pack so and won't have these nuisance games.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 12:32:50 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 12:38:19 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.

Duffy's only limitation is his imagination.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 02, 2017, 12:50:13 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.

Example    Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo draw Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway beat Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo and lose
                Rossies Beat Galway

Kerry Qualified

Mayo and Rossies finish level on points and Score difference - What do you do?

Scenario two


                Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo Beat Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway lose to Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo already through put B team
                Rossies v Galway who cares?


Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 12:52:57 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.

Duffy's only limitation is his imagination.

Wrong again. Do you know the limitations I'm talking about?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 12:56:36 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.

Example    Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo draw Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway beat Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo and lose
                Rossies Beat Galway

Kerry Qualified

Mayo and Rossies finish level on points and Score difference - What do you do?

Scenario two


                Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo Beat Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway lose to Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo already through put B team
                Rossies v Galway who cares?

We all know you can have dead rubbers but you seem to be ignoring the reality that we could also have groups going down to the wire and scenarios where all teams can qualify going into the last round. There's no perfect solution but there's plenty of scope for great games in this format.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 02, 2017, 01:07:32 AM
Wouldn't it be some craic if there was a three way tie for second place in one of the Groups in the Super Duper 8!

The GAA could scam three more games in a round robin play off. Or would away scores come into play. That would be fun! ;)

I can only imagine how diminished Sunday's match would have been had it been a AIQF next year.

Sundays game would have meant nothing, well not as much as it did! Both would have trotted off to get ready to play another game that they probably could afford to probably draw or even lose. Exciting stuff!

Then there is the final sets of games where you have two teams already through to the Semi-finals and two teams with nothing to play for!

In other words four teams with nothing to play for!

Jesus lads, yer great craic altogether. So after drawing the first game you can afford to lose your second game, how does that work? And both groups will always end up with final rounds with nothing to play for, no other options?

The super 8 isn't perfect but is worth trying given the limitations imposed on Duffy.

Example    Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo draw Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway beat Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo and lose
                Rossies Beat Galway

Kerry Qualified

Mayo and Rossies finish level on points and Score difference - What do you do?

Scenario two


                Kerry Beat Galway
                Mayo Beat Rossies
                Kerry beat Rossies
                Galway lose to Mayo
                Kerry already through put B team out against Mayo already through put B team
                Rossies v Galway who cares?

We all know you can have dead rubbers but you seem to be ignoring the reality that we could also have groups going down to the wire and scenarios where all teams can qualify going into the last round. There's no perfect solution but there's plenty of scope for great games in this format.

Prolonging an already to drawn out Championship that will just see Kerry and Dublin in the final and give them more chances to feck up and recover along the way!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 01:13:23 AM
Sure why don't we scrap it altogether? The same few teams win most competitions in most sports. Like most others I want to see more football, not less. You always not watch it FtB.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 02, 2017, 01:17:06 AM
Sure why don't we scrap it altogether? The same few teams win most competitions in most sports. Like most others I want to see more football, not less. You always not watch it FtB.

We will have to scrap it soon. Croke park has created a monster and we have now got to a stage where we celebrate a team losing by 9 points in a Leinster final.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2017, 01:22:45 AM
Sure why don't we scrap it altogether? The same few teams win most competitions in most sports. Like most others I want to see more football, not less. You always not watch it FtB.

We will have to scrap it soon. Croke park has created a monster and we have now got to a stage where we celebrate a team losing by 9 points in a Leinster final.

We only have to throw Dublin out. Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon/Tyrone/Armagh/Kildare etc could have games among each other and you wouldn't know who would win.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 02, 2017, 09:43:03 AM
If the new format was to be applied to this year's championship, the first games wouldn't have been Kerry v Galway or Mayo v Roscommon. The first games would be the two provincial champions in that group playing each other.

For example, Dublin would play Tyrone this weekend. For argument's sake, say Dublin won, then Tyrone would go into their second game with zero points. Armagh would have played Monaghan and again, for argument's sake, say Monaghan won, then a provincial champion would be playing catch-up going into the second game. Depending on how the fixtures fell, we could have a situation where Tyrone would have to beat Monaghan to progress.

So as not to be as biased as some posters, it should be pointed out that of course in this scenario Dublin's last game against Armagh would be a dead rubber.

The system is not perfect and I think it will most likely ultimately fail due to the possibility of dead rubbers and the general moaning of the GAA public.

It's so much easier to moan endlessly than read the reasoning behind the proposal and give it a chance. It's going to be a long year.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2017, 09:55:02 AM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 12:48:40 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 02, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Listen it will be great. Think of all the money that will be generated by all the extra home games for Dublin. Except for maybe their last dead Rubber game. But hey Dublin fans are so used to dead games at the moment they probably won't notice. For all the er teams just think of the novelty of playing all those games in Croker. Super Duper!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2017, 01:31:39 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 01:56:20 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Again, there were limitations imposed so the proposal is a reflection of what the membership wanted and what they didn't want. If we want a proper competition then it should be a league with (perhaps) a cup competition. But people don't want to be that drastic so we have a halfway house solution. We know you and FtB spend your days locked in a darkened room depressed at the big bad Dubs winning everything but let the rest of us enjoy the journey and see how the super 8 works out. I know everyone here will agree you've never been wrong on anything but perhaps the super 8 will buck the trend.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 02:06:41 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 02, 2017, 02:42:08 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 02:42:59 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 02, 2017, 02:46:26 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Your solution to the Connacht final attendance falling by 7,000 in one year is to tell us that Dublin is the problem?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 02:47:46 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Your solution to the Connacht final attendance falling by 7,000 in one year is to tell us that Dublin is the problem?

I've explained my solution in this thread and in others in detail.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 02, 2017, 02:48:36 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Your solution to the Connacht final attendance falling by 7,000 in one year is to tell us that Dublin is the problem?

I've explained my solution in this thread and in others in detail.
Summary form will do.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 02, 2017, 03:13:46 PM
Top Six instead...4 provincial champs plus one qualifier from A and one from B.

Two groups of 3, two games for each county, top two to semifinals.

So this year would see Kerry, Roscommon and Mayo/Galway on one side and Dublin, Tyrone and Monaghan/Armagh on the other.  Game 1 has the Provincial champs meet in Croke Park, and qualifier has two away games.  Winner of game 1 plays qualifier in game 2.  Let's assume winner of game 1 wins again.  That means the last game, between loser of game 1 and qualifier, is for a semifinal spot.  No draws, no extra time even, winner decided by playing on after normal time and time added on until we get a score.  A scenario could arise with all three teams having one win each...how best to sort that out? Is Scoring difference really fair, or is the Aussie % better as it takes differing weather conditions into account? 

I suggest goals scored be the first tie-breaker.  That would be different.

We can call it the Six-Pack.

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Owenmoresider on August 02, 2017, 03:25:43 PM
Top Six instead...4 provincial champs plus one qualifier from A and one from B.

Two groups of 3, two games for each county, top two to semifinals.

So this year would see Kerry, Roscommon and Mayo/Galway on one side and Dublin, Tyrone and Monaghan/Armagh on the other.  Game 1 has the Provincial champs meet in Croke Park, and qualifier has two away games.  Winner of game 1 plays qualifier in game 2.  Let's assume winner of game 1 wins again.  That means the last game, between loser of game 1 and qualifier, is for a semifinal spot.  No draws, no extra time even, winner decided by playing on after normal time and time added on until we get a score.  A scenario could arise with all three teams having one win each...how best to sort that out? Is Scoring difference really fair, or is the Aussie % better as it takes differing weather conditions into account? 

I suggest goals scored be the first tie-breaker.  That would be different.

We can call it the Six-Pack.
If you went down that route I'd suggest that it could be loosely based on the AFL playoffs scenario (8 go through, top 4 play off 1v4 2v3, losers of those meet the winners of playoffs 5v8 6v7, those winners then meet the winners of the two top 4 games to qualify for the Grand Final). http://www.droppunt.com/images/AFL-Finals-System.gif (http://www.droppunt.com/images/AFL-Finals-System.gif)

Here the four teams through from the qualifiers playoff, Mayo v Galway and Monaghan v Armagh, while the four provincial winners playoff, Kerry v Roscommon and Dublin v Tyrone, those two winners go straight to the semi finals and the losers (say Ros and Dublin) play the winners of the qualifier ties (say Mayo and Monaghan), Roscommon v Mayo and Dublin v Monaghan, with the winners advancing to the semis.

To avoid repeat clashes (like the AFL do per link above) you'd then have Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo or Ros in the semis. Still takes time but at least each game counts for something.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2017, 03:43:09 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Your solution to the Connacht final attendance falling by 7,000 in one year is to tell us that Dublin is the problem?

I've explained my solution in this thread and in others in detail.
Summary form will do.
C'mon Syfīn Let us in on the secret as we haven't time to be trawling back. :D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 02, 2017, 03:55:11 PM
Top Six instead...4 provincial champs plus one qualifier from A and one from B.

Two groups of 3, two games for each county, top two to semifinals.

So this year would see Kerry, Roscommon and Mayo/Galway on one side and Dublin, Tyrone and Monaghan/Armagh on the other.  Game 1 has the Provincial champs meet in Croke Park, and qualifier has two away games.  Winner of game 1 plays qualifier in game 2.  Let's assume winner of game 1 wins again.  That means the last game, between loser of game 1 and qualifier, is for a semifinal spot.  No draws, no extra time even, winner decided by playing on after normal time and time added on until we get a score.  A scenario could arise with all three teams having one win each...how best to sort that out? Is Scoring difference really fair, or is the Aussie % better as it takes differing weather conditions into account? 

I suggest goals scored be the first tie-breaker.  That would be different.

We can call it the Six-Pack.
I like it but it just doesn't have the same effect without mentioning Duffy, Money, The Dubs or Sky in it.

Seriously though, very good idea.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 02, 2017, 05:58:56 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
What's the solution?

Dublin are the problem and the solution.
Your solution to the Connacht final attendance falling by 7,000 in one year is to tell us that Dublin is the problem?

I've explained my solution in this thread and in others in detail.

He's solution involved splitting the Dubs and Cork and joining the likes of Longford and Roscommon or Laois and Offaly. Outside of it solving none of our problems, creating many more, being cloud cuckoo land unrealistic and anti-GAA I fail to see any problems with his 'solution'. Perhaps other posters can point out the problems to me?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: mrhardyannual on August 02, 2017, 07:19:43 PM
It's been voted in for 3 years.
How about we see how it works out folks?

Round robins aren't some new untested structure. We know exactly how they work without wasting three years with a transparent attempt by Duffy to paper over falling attendances.
On the face of it the drop of 6000 from 2016 to 2017 appears to back up your contention but only if seen in isolation. While the attendance figures dropped from 24324 in 2016 to 18287 it was still considerably higher than the figure of 15960 that attended the 2016 replay between the same sides. As I would confidently estimate that the Roscommon support in Croke Park last Sunday was at least equal to that 16000 odd, it would suggest that the prime factor in determining level of support (discounting weather conditions etc) is expectation. In this regard expectation in Roscommon was high before the 2016 Connacht final, depressed for the replay, muted for the Connacht Final 2017 and rampant for last Sunday.

Are attendances falling that much? Rosc v Mayo will be well enough attended and the place is full on Saturday. It depends on the combination of teams involved.

In the last 12 months the attendance of the exact same pairing in the Connacht final fell by about 7,000. This being a relatively competitive match-up, far removed from the one-sided drubbings Leinster has become known for. People are turning off their TVs and not bothering to attend. If you think the sport isn't shrinking you aren't really looking very closely at all.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2017, 07:45:12 PM
We had a bit if a bandwagon last year in Salthill but this year we had roughly the same 6,000 that were at the Leitrim game.
Howevera Connacht Title and improved performance plus a day out in HQ and we're rolling again.
Attendances are generally up this Summer.
Hurling massively because Cork and Wexford going well draw huge crowds. 366k to date compared to 230k at same stage last year.
Football
Connacht down 11k - replayed final 2016
Leinster up 30
Munster up 10
Ulster down 45 - 2 draws 2016
Qualifiers and 1st 2 Qtr Finals up 90k.

By the way the 1990 Connacht Final had 17,000 !!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 08:16:10 PM
We had a bit if a bandwagon last year in Salthill but this year we had roughly the same 6,000 that were at the Leitrim game.
Howevera Connacht Title and improved performance plus a day out in HQ and we're rolling again.
Attendances are generally up this Summer.
Hurling massively because Cork and Wexford going well draw huge crowds. 366k to date compared to 230k at same stage last year.
Football
Connacht down 11k - replayed final 2016
Leinster up 30
Munster up 10
Ulster down 45 - 2 draws 2016
Qualifiers and 1st 2 Qtr Finals up 90k.

By the way the 1990 Connacht Final had 17,000 !!

The population of Ireland was lower in 1990. The height for attendances was when it made sense to move Ulster finals to Croker - if you're telling me interest is still at those levels I'm speechless.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2017, 08:21:22 PM
The population of Ireland was lower in 1990. The height for attendances was when it made sense to move Ulster finals to Croker - if you're telling me interest is still at those levels I'm speechless.

Does being speechless mean you won't be posting?
Interest isn't at those levels, Armagh have not been doing as well.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2017, 08:53:03 PM
We had a bit if a bandwagon last year in Salthill but this year we had roughly the same 6,000 that were at the Leitrim game.
Howevera Connacht Title and improved performance plus a day out in HQ and we're rolling again.
Attendances are generally up this Summer.
Hurling massively because Cork and Wexford going well draw huge crowds. 366k to date compared to 230k at same stage last year.
Football
Connacht down 11k - replayed final 2016
Leinster up 30
Munster up 10
Ulster down 45 - 2 draws 2016
Qualifiers and 1st 2 Qtr Finals up 90k.

By the way the 1990 Connacht Final had 17,000 !!

The population of Ireland was lower in 1990. The height for attendances was when it made sense to move Ulster finals to Croker - if you're telling me interest is still at those levels I'm speechless.
Wish you would take a vow of silence first a few days.
Still waiting for your Championship proposal ;)

Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 02, 2017, 08:55:43 PM
We had a bit if a bandwagon last year in Salthill but this year we had roughly the same 6,000 that were at the Leitrim game.
Howevera Connacht Title and improved performance plus a day out in HQ and we're rolling again.
Attendances are generally up this Summer.
Hurling massively because Cork and Wexford going well draw huge crowds. 366k to date compared to 230k at same stage last year.
Football
Connacht down 11k - replayed final 2016
Leinster up 30
Munster up 10
Ulster down 45 - 2 draws 2016
Qualifiers and 1st 2 Qtr Finals up 90k.

By the way the 1990 Connacht Final had 17,000 !!

The population of Ireland was lower in 1990. The height for attendances was when it made sense to move Ulster finals to Croker - if you're telling me interest is still at those levels I'm speechless.
Wish you would take a vow of silence first a few days.
Still waiting for your Championship proposal ;)

Use the search function.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2017, 10:32:54 PM
I'll take that as a No then.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on August 05, 2017, 06:39:02 PM
So next year we will have lots of games like Kerry v Galway tyrone v armagh and Dublin v monaghan to look forward to.....
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: ashman on August 05, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
Hope it backfires and the crowds are small .
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on August 05, 2017, 06:44:48 PM
Most of the last round of games will prob be pointless..   
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 06:45:11 PM
Right on cue.

Conversely, we'll not hear the usual suspects tell us that it's a disgrace that these games were on Sky, because the games weren't any good.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on August 05, 2017, 06:58:13 PM
Esmerelda I have been saying for a while now that cake was right about the comparison between gaa and Catholic church......it's going to f**k up sooner rather than later the to bad decisions made by the leaders!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 07:03:23 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 07:04:20 PM
Esmerelda I have been saying for a while now that cake was right about the comparison between gaa and Catholic church......it's going to f**k up sooner rather than later the to bad decisions made by the leaders!
I know. I've been reading.

Solutions is what we want. Based on today's games in isolation it's back to straight knockout and four provincial winners through to the semi-finals.

However, if Cork/Kildare/Galway/Donegal get their act together then the following year we can say that we need to bring back the back door because these teams should be in Croke Park in August.

Reactionary one-liners are pointless and predictable.

Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 05, 2017, 07:06:32 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on August 05, 2017, 07:06:47 PM
We might get the good games in the semi finals......let the lads at away at club football and enjoy their lives instead of feeding a commercial gravy train.....
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 07:10:02 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one? 
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 07:15:47 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?
You're very game Zulu.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 05, 2017, 07:18:19 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?

The only reason you might have more good games is by sheer volume, you're also increasing the dross exponentially as well. That's a terrible way to do it and dilutes the product even more.

If you can't see that the answer to more competitive games isn't a formatting problem I'm afraid you're well off the mark.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 07:20:55 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?

The only reason you might have more good games is by sheer volume, you're also increasing the dross exponentially as well. That's a terrible way to do it and dilutes the product even more.

If you can't see that the answer to more competitive games isn't a formatting problem I'm afraid you're well off the mark.
Question for you. The solution you've told us previously, which you won't repeat, would it have gotten a 2/3 vote in Congress? Let's pretend that the people voting didn't know that it came from you.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 07:24:20 PM
Every sport in the world provides more games than we do and all those sports provide poor games and great games. The only way, absolutely only way, to provide more good games is to provide more games between the top teams. The super 8 does that. Of course we need to look at the finances and other issues but money won't make Longford competitive against Dublin every year and splitting counties is anti-GAA, not to mention unrealistic. So the only realistic option for now is to pit Dublin, Mayo and Kerry against each other more often and hope the likes of Kildare, Galway etc. can close the gap.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 05, 2017, 07:24:48 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?

The only reason you might have more good games is by sheer volume, you're also increasing the dross exponentially as well. That's a terrible way to do it and dilutes the product even more.

If you can't see that the answer to more competitive games isn't a formatting problem I'm afraid you're well off the mark.
Question for you. The solution you've told us previously, which you won't repeat, would it have gotten a 2/3 vote in Congress? Let's pretend that the people voting didn't know that it came from you.

I'm sick of the same loop of discussing what needs to be done. I'm not going to get into it here; you're not bothered to use the search function, so like hell will I be bothered to type it up again. There's enough circling and circling the same topics on this forum without adding to it in the middle of the season. There was more than enough threads on championship format ideas to whet any appetite you have for the topic.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 07:25:53 PM
Bullshit, you've no solution. Stop moaning about other suggestions when you've none yourself.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 07:26:53 PM
Can you imagine Armagh having to play Dublin in the next game and Monaghan having to Play Tyrone. And all within a week?

NIGHTMARE
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: The Trap on August 05, 2017, 07:27:10 PM
There is NO solution. We had a great game and we ruined it!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: BennyHarp on August 05, 2017, 07:28:40 PM
Every sport in the world provides more games than we do and all those sports provide poor games and great games. The only way, absolutely only way, to provide more good games is to provide more games between the top teams. The super 8 does that. Of course we need to look at the finances and other issues but money won't make Longford competitive against Dublin every year and splitting counties is anti-GAA, not to mention unrealistic. So the only realistic option for now is to pit Dublin, Mayo and Kerry against each other more often and hope the likes of Kildare, Galway etc. can close the gap.

What about a World Series of Gaelic Football where Kerry and Dublin play each other over a best of seven matches?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Syferus on August 05, 2017, 07:28:54 PM
Bullshit, you've no solution. Stop moaning about other suggestions when you've none yourself.

Already stated multiple times. Your solution is to let Dublin win endless titles as they drain national interest in the sport with their GAA-endorsed advatantages. You know very well how much has changed in the last 15 years to add to all the natural advantages your pet county has.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 07:31:56 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?

The only reason you might have more good games is by sheer volume, you're also increasing the dross exponentially as well. That's a terrible way to do it and dilutes the product even more.

If you can't see that the answer to more competitive games isn't a formatting problem I'm afraid you're well off the mark.
Question for you. The solution you've told us previously, which you won't repeat, would it have gotten a 2/3 vote in Congress? Let's pretend that the people voting didn't know that it came from you.

I'm sick of the same loop of discussing what needs to be done. I'm not going to get into it here; you're not bothered to use the search function, so like hell will I be bothered to type it up again. There's enough circling and circling the same topics on this forum without adding to it in the middle of the season. There was more than enough threads on championship format ideas to whet any appetite you have for the topic.
I didn't ask you to repeat it. I asked if you thought it would get a two thirds majority at congress. Would it?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 07:37:02 PM
Bullshit, you've no solution. Stop moaning about other suggestions when you've none yourself.

Already stated multiple times. Your solution is to let Dublin win endless titles as they drain national interest in the sport with their GAA-endorsed advatantages. You know very well how much has changed in the last 15 years to add to all the natural ad ranges your pet county has.

Again, nonsense. I'm tempted to ask you to put your mother on the phone as I feel like I'm speaking to a child. I don't want Dublin, or any other county, win every year. I want us to have a fair format for everyone. Dublin, due to their population will always be there or thereabouts but splitting counties and amalgamating counties is pie in the sky stuff so lets work for a realistic format that will give counties a better season even if Dublin and one or two others are likely to win the majority of All Irelands.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: screenexile on August 05, 2017, 07:43:06 PM
Should we just call the All Ireland Championship the super 3's??

(Super 2's depending on how much the Dubs beat Tyrone by)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 05, 2017, 07:46:20 PM
There's salt in them tears  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 08:15:16 PM
Eh? At least the super 8 would provide us with some good games as opposed to what we have.

It would provide us at least twice as many of games like the one that's so one-sided that it's allowing you to post on a forum right now.

Not necessarily. We could be watching Dublin against Mayo in Castlebar or Monaghan against Roscommon in Clones. There'll be bad games in any system, the issue is can we get more good games in a different one?

Are you for REAL? You think that a Championship game involving Mayo and Dublin would be in Castlebar? Really? You are one naive individual.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 08:18:26 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Rossfan on August 05, 2017, 08:21:43 PM
There is NO solution. We had a great game and we ruined it!
Could you elaborate on that please?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 08:24:49 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

What is the Capacity of McHale Park?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 05, 2017, 08:47:25 PM
Top Six instead...4 provincial champs plus one qualifier from A and one from B.

Two groups of 3, two games for each county, top two to semifinals.

So this year would see Kerry, Roscommon and Mayo/Galway on one side and Dublin, Tyrone and Monaghan/Armagh on the other.  Game 1 has the Provincial champs meet in Croke Park, and qualifier has two away games.  Winner of game 1 plays qualifier in game 2.  Let's assume winner of game 1 wins again.  That means the last game, between loser of game 1 and qualifier, is for a semifinal spot.  No draws, no extra time even, winner decided by playing on after normal time and time added on until we get a score.  A scenario could arise with all three teams having one win each...how best to sort that out? Is Scoring difference really fair, or is the Aussie % better as it takes differing weather conditions into account? 

I suggest goals scored be the first tie-breaker.  That would be different.

We can call it the Six-Pack.

This should gain momentum as a way forward.  Although I would tweak it to send qualifier counties away from their provincial champions.

This year would see a final qualifier pair of games, Mayo/Galway and Armagh/Monaghan.   Mayo/Galway winner joins Dublin and Tyrone, Armagh/Monaghan winner joins Kerry and Roscommon.

Game 1 in sees provincial champs play (thereby giving qualifier winner a week off)...Kerry v Roscommon and Dublin v Tyrone, both games in Croke Park.

Game 2 is loser of Game 1 v qualifier, with loser of Game 1 at home, and Game 3 is winner Game 1 at home v qualifier.

Provincial championship worth a lot when it comes to "seeding", and the hard road is for the qualifier teams. 

All I need is how to separate the nightmare scenario of the three teams getting one win each....any thoughts?
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 09:47:08 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

What is the Capacity of McHale Park?

I don't know, 35,000? I understand the capacity is less than the demand would be but whatever about a county with a 20,000 capacity or less having to give up home advantage, Mayo would not and to imply otherwise is disingenuous to say the least.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 10:03:40 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

What is the Capacity of McHale Park?

I don't know, 35,000? I understand the capacity is less than the demand would be but whatever about a county with a 20,000 capacity or less having to give up home advantage, Mayo would not and to imply otherwise is disingenuous to say the least.

It holds 38,000 (all seated). You are talking about 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game.  Do you think the GAA who invented this Super 8 to get extra revenue from the Game will have Dublin play a Championship game in McHale park minus the extra capacity, the Rent paying Vendors and Corporate Boxes? This is not about getting better games. This is not about giving everyone a fair chance. This is about the GAA regaining declining revenue. This game would only be played in McHale Park if it was a Dead Rubber fixture!
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Esmarelda on August 05, 2017, 10:12:07 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

What is the Capacity of McHale Park?

I don't know, 35,000? I understand the capacity is less than the demand would be but whatever about a county with a 20,000 capacity or less having to give up home advantage, Mayo would not and to imply otherwise is disingenuous to say the least.

It holds 38,000 (all seated). You are talking about 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game.  Do you think the GAA who invented this Super 8 to get extra revenue from the Game will have Dublin play a Championship game in McHale park minus the extra capacity, the Rent paying Vendors and Corporate Boxes? This is not about getting better games. This is not about giving everyone a fair chance. This is about the GAA regaining declining revenue. This game would only be played in McHale Park if it was a Dead Rubber fixture!
Ha ha. Already a step back from what you've REPEATEDLY said previously.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: Zulu on August 05, 2017, 10:14:58 PM
FtB, with respect, that's not true. Every second year (almost) there's a Munster final in Killarney with 30,000 Corkonians going  to Killarney, many knowing they won't get a ticket for the match. The same would happen if Mayo hosted Dublin. The GAA isn't run by non-GAA people but they have to make some tough decisions. I'm a genuine GAA man but believe the provincials are a complete crock, other genuine GAA people believe they are vital. Duffy and others have to try and make decisions that will annoy people irrespective of what they do. It's easy to say the guys at the top aren't GAA men when the rest of us fundamentally disagree on many things. It's a poisoned chalice running the GAA IMO.
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 10:16:34 PM
Give it a rest FtB, of course that will happen if the teams meet and Mayo have a home game against Dublin. You're CB would be lynched if they didn't have 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game. Your paranoia is getting the better of you.

What is the Capacity of McHale Park?

I don't know, 35,000? I understand the capacity is less than the demand would be but whatever about a county with a 20,000 capacity or less having to give up home advantage, Mayo would not and to imply otherwise is disingenuous to say the least.

It holds 38,000 (all seated). You are talking about 20-30,000 Dubs coming to Mayo for a game.  Do you think the GAA who invented this Super 8 to get extra revenue from the Game will have Dublin play a Championship game in McHale park minus the extra capacity, the Rent paying Vendors and Corporate Boxes? This is not about getting better games. This is not about giving everyone a fair chance. This is about the GAA regaining declining revenue. This game would only be played in McHale Park if it was a Dead Rubber fixture!
Ha ha. Already a step back from what you've REPEATEDLY said previously.


There is NO step back from what I said previously.  ;)
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: macdanger2 on August 05, 2017, 10:17:06 PM
The problem is a gap in standards. No changes to championship structure is going to alleviate that
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: From the Bunker on August 05, 2017, 10:17:58 PM
The problem is a gap in standards. No changes to championship structure is going to alleviate that

+1
Title: Re: Super 8s
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2017, 10:19:50 PM
Gaelic is in a very bad state if 3 of the 4 qfs are walkovers
The Super 8 is partly to bring up standards of the lower 4 but also about money . I think the GAA is too complacent about the supporters . For how long.more are people going to.pay to watch mismatched teams?  And is great to see the Dubs with a team like that but it certainly isn't fair.
 
Title: Re: Super 8s
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