Removal of Gaza flag in Croke Park!

[macdanger2]

While yer at it why not fly some more flags in solidarity with Democratic Rep of Congo,Sudan,CAR,Syria etc where similar horrors are unfolding.Or Why not just bring your county flag and enjoy the match?

You're correct in that what's happening in DRC,,Syria and the likes is at least as reprehensible but our govt haven't abstained on any UN motions of censure against these conflicts, therein lies one difference

[Aoise]

I have never started a thread before so apologies if it doesn't work out but this could not be ignored...

http://www.armaghgaa.net/forum/threads/gaza-garvaghy-armagh-croke-park.3655/

Lets fill it with them on Saturday, for two reasons...1 - In solidarity with the people being slaughtered in Gaza (obviously) 2 - To show that cretin Rupert Murdoch that he doesn't control the Irish people, especially in Croke Park.

Aoise.......would you extend the same consideration to someone who wanted to display an Israeli flag?

Obviously! I didn't think we lived in a fascist country.  I can only demonstrate what my own conscience allows me to - though good luck to anyone though trying to placate their conscience with an Israeli flag - but by all means, if you feel strongly enough!

[Aoise]

Some people are missing the point of this and the reasons why this should be in Croke Park.

1 - There was a vote at the UN a few weeks ago, with a clown representative from Ireland abstaining on a vote to investigate Human Rights abuses in Gaza.  Now only to investigate.  This sorry excuse for a human being, represented the people of Ireland without consent.  On an issue like this, the people need to speak.  I and many like me were beyond disgusted at this cowardly piece of action.  Croke Park however is representative of the people of Ireland.  So let us speak at last.

2 - The media in the Western world are completely ignoring any form of protest happening regarding this.  They are using subversive methods in order to appear PC and not upset anyone.  I happen to believe the vast majority of the people of Ireland are sickened by what is happening.  4 counties will be represented on Saturday, lets see what they think.  The reason this needs to happen in Croke Park?  Its the one place where they cannot divert the cameras.

3 - Politics and sport not mixing you say - How the hell is this a political issue?  This is a human issue!!! For all you Politically correct 'don't rock the boaters' I say grow a set of balls and make a stand in order to at least show anyone representing Ireland to not take the Irish people for granted.  If someone wants to bring an Israeli flag, go for it!  I couldn't give a shit what flag you bring, so long as I feel that people are starting to be counted.  If the majority of Croke Park bring an Israeli flag then we will have our answer.  I have much more faith in the people of Ireland though.

4 - If people believe in a progressive democracy, then they believe in the right of peaceful demonstration regardless of where that will be.  If I buy a ticket for Croke Park, thats where I choose my demonstration to be.  If anyone doesn't like it, well they can politely do one!

What has happened to people?  Are we so comfortable here in the west that we become indifferent to human suffering.  I will just say it is well for you can go to a football match and say 'don't fly flags as politics and sport don't mix'.  Shame on you for being so heartless.  But more shame on you for being so gutless.  If you think something is wrong, have the conviction and the courage to do something about it, because if we're waiting on the watery ass Govt's who supposedly represent us, we'll be waiting a long time.

[Syferus]

My feelings towards any given issue are wholly independent to my views on someone trying to piggy-back on a sporting event for attention for the said issue. Just because you can't separate the two things doesn't mean others can't and it certainly doesn't mean they don't care.

Shame on you for resorting to childish caricatures full of emotive, misty-eyed righteous indignation just because someone disagrees with you. You share more with Israel than you would like to admit.

[Owenmoresider]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

[babarino]

My feelings towards any given issue are wholly independent to my views on someone trying to piggy-back on a sporting event for attention for the said issue. Just because you can't separate the two things doesn't mean others can't and it certainly doesn't mean they don't care.

Shame on you for resorting to childish caricatures fully of emotive, misty-eyed righteous indignation just because someone disagrees with you...

I suppose you think it was shameful of Mandela piggy-backing the Rugby World Cup final and the black civil rights campaigners raising the black gloved fist at the Mexico Olympics.

[Aoise]

My feelings towards any given issue are wholly independent to my views on someone trying to piggy-back on a sporting event for attention for the said issue. Just because you can't separate the two things doesn't mean others can't and it certainly doesn't mean they don't care.

Shame on you for resorting to childish caricatures fully of emotive, misty-eyed righteous indignation just because someone disagrees with you. You share more with Israel than you would like to admit.

You don't care Syferus!  So long as you can go to your sporting event and pretend its not happening, then that suits you just fine.  BTW, If Israeli children were lying all over the streets bombed to bits, I would be taking an Israeli flag, I'm not discriminatory I just don't like to see children murdered.  I still don't understand what is so catastrophic about taking a flag into Croke Park - what is so wrong with it?

[Aoise]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

[thewobbler]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Sport is not real life. In fact it creates an environment where the rules and customs of the rest of our lives can be set aside.

Personally I've no interest in those line blurring, regardless of the cause. While campaigners might believe that a sporting event is an appropriate pedestal for raising support/concern, in doing so they are actually trying to hijack the thoughts and atmosphere of a group of people who have come together to get away from such things.

Don't confuse this stance with apathy. It's justifiable segregation of the real world from pastimes, hobbies and passions. Justifiable not because I say so, but because the very basis of a pastime or passion is to get away from the real world.

---

It's now become almost impossible to watch an English Premiership match without a minute's silence. Once upon a time, this only happened when a crowd came together to remember a former player whose significant contribution to a club helped unite them as a group. Then it grew to include general football figures, then anniversaries, then general public figures, and now even includes supporters and celebrities. It has becomes a waste of everyone's time. It's a ritual before every game rather than a mark of respect. Black armbands the same.

I bring this up because this all started off with some people demanding that sporting events take on a greater social conscience. The people who started this, I've no doubt there hearts were in the right place. But what they've done is created an irrelevance on match days, that is an administrative nightmare for club officials, who have to assess and almost act as St Peter at the gates, for all manner of deaths.

Protests and campaigns at sporting events will go the same way, unless there's a blanket "no". You, Aiose, obviously feel very strongly about the Gaza situation, and that is your right. But by demanding the right to inflict that voice on GAA match attendees, then you have to bear in mind that the same right should be reciprocated to anyone and everyone who has a cause they feel strongly about.

 

[dferg]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Sport is not real life. In fact it creates an environment where the rules and customs of the rest of our lives can be set aside.

Personally I've no interest in those line blurring, regardless of the cause. While campaigners might believe that a sporting event is an appropriate pedestal for raising support/concern, in doing so they are actually trying to hijack the thoughts and atmosphere of a group of people who have come together to get away from such things.

Don't confuse this stance with apathy. It's justifiable segregation of the real world from pastimes, hobbies and passions. Justifiable not because I say so, but because the very basis of a pastime or passion is to get away from the real world.

---

It's now become almost impossible to watch an English Premiership match without a minute's silence. Once upon a time, this only happened when a crowd came together to remember a former player whose significant contribution to a club helped unite them as a group. Then it grew to include general football figures, then anniversaries, then general public figures, and now even includes supporters and celebrities. It has becomes a waste of everyone's time. It's a ritual before every game rather than a mark of respect. Black armbands the same.

I bring this up because this all started off with some people demanding that sporting events take on a greater social conscience. The people who started this, I've no doubt there hearts were in the right place. But what they've done is created an irrelevance on match days, that is an administrative nightmare for club officials, who have to assess and almost act as St Peter at the gates, for all manner of deaths.

Protests and campaigns at sporting events will go the same way, unless there's a blanket "no". You, Aiose, obviously feel very strongly about the Gaza situation, and that is your right. But by demanding the right to inflict that voice on GAA match attendees, then you have to bear in mind that the same right should be reciprocated to anyone and everyone who has a cause they feel strongly about.

[thewobbler]

If it can be accepted that the Gaza struggle can become an inactive part of a person's life when they work, sleep and eat, surely it's possible to accept that a few more hours a week of inactivity for sporting events, does not make the same person "doing nothing"?

[deiseach]

[armaghniac]

Protests and campaigns at sporting events will go the same way, unless there's a blanket "no". You, Aiose, obviously feel very strongly about the Gaza situation, and that is your right. But by demanding the right to inflict that voice on GAA match attendees, then you have to bear in mind that the same right should be reciprocated to anyone and everyone who has a cause they feel strongly about.

Well put, Wobbler. I have a lot of sympathy for the cause here, but if everyone comes along to games with their pet cause then the sporting event becomes fatally compromised and chaos would ensue.

I'd suggest organising a protest at lunchtime at the Dail or Isreali embassy and encourage everyone to go along.

[Sidney]

I hope the authorities deal with any Canadian, Danish, Japanese or Confederate flags the next time Cork are playing, as those Ccork people are clearly making a political point.

[Aoise]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Sport is not real life. In fact it creates an environment where the rules and customs of the rest of our lives can be set aside.

Personally I've no interest in those line blurring, regardless of the cause. While campaigners might believe that a sporting event is an appropriate pedestal for raising support/concern, in doing so they are actually trying to hijack the thoughts and atmosphere of a group of people who have come together to get away from such things.

Don't confuse this stance with apathy. It's justifiable segregation of the real world from pastimes, hobbies and passions. Justifiable not because I say so, but because the very basis of a pastime or passion is to get away from the real world.

---

It's now become almost impossible to watch an English Premiership match without a minute's silence. Once upon a time, this only happened when a crowd came together to remember a former player whose significant contribution to a club helped unite them as a group. Then it grew to include general football figures, then anniversaries, then general public figures, and now even includes supporters and celebrities. It has becomes a waste of everyone's time. It's a ritual before every game rather than a mark of respect. Black armbands the same.

I bring this up because this all started off with some people demanding that sporting events take on a greater social conscience. The people who started this, I've no doubt there hearts were in the right place. But what they've done is created an irrelevance on match days, that is an administrative nightmare for club officials, who have to assess and almost act as St Peter at the gates, for all manner of deaths.

Protests and campaigns at sporting events will go the same way, unless there's a blanket "no". You, Aiose, obviously feel very strongly about the Gaza situation, and that is your right. But by demanding the right to inflict that voice on GAA match attendees, then you have to bear in mind that the same right should be reciprocated to anyone and everyone who has a cause they feel strongly about.

But I am not a campaigner!  Just 1 individual who has realised the protests on the streets are being ignored, and to be fair I didn't bring a Palestinian flag last week.  But when I saw what happened I give my self a kick up the ass.  I'm not telling you to bring any flag.  I simply asked that if you were bothered by the events in Gaza and were going on Saturday to bring one along in order to illustrate peoples disgust.  You on the other hand are telling me that there is no place in Croke Park for my feelings or the feelings of many like me.  Seriously??? Newsflash, If I buy my ticket to get into headquarters I couldn't give a damn about your sensitivities to be honest.  You don't like it or if it reminds you of real life (boo hoo) then just look away!  But you have no right to tell anyone where or where they cannot demonstrate in a democracy.  Thats what this is right???