Great read here.......
Listen again to the full John Hartson interview in a BBC Radio 5 live Special on Gambling Addiction in Sport with Eleanor Oldroyd.
A fearless and robust striker, John Hartson's forthright response to being diagnosed with cancer came as little surprise to anybody who knew him well.
But there was one challenge "Big John" repeatedly shirked, his life-threatening addiction to gambling.
"You never think you've got a problem," he explained. "You're a gambler, you enjoy it, you never realise the hurt you're causing.
"Your family know you're addicted, but I used to think they had the problem by questioning me."
Then the questions stopped. Hartson's wife Sarah had had enough of him coming in from trips away, ignoring her and the children, going straight to the TV and turning on a cricket match, golf tournament or horse race he had £5,000 on.
So she packed her bags and told him she was leaving.
"I broke down and said I'd do something about this," the former Arsenal, West Ham and Celtic star remembered, his voice buckling with emotion and regret.
"When I was fighting for my life [with cancer], she was my rock. She was pregnant, she looked after the children, she was incredibly strong, and this sc**bag here came out of hospital and carried on with the gambling, after everything she had done.
"I hit rock bottom and it takes that for you to realise - the penny dropped. I will never gamble again as long as I live."
Hartson scored 206 goals in 505 club games in England and Scotland, and 14 in 51 games for Wales
'If I gamble again, I'll die'
Hartson's last bet was three years, three months and three days ago.
"Everybody is aware that cancer kills. It nearly took my life in 2009," the 39-year-old said, recalling the two emergency operations and more than 60 sessions of chemotherapy he needed when testicular cancer spread to his lungs and brain.
"Cancer takes good people away every day, but, for me, gambling also kills.
"There are four places you can end up as a compulsive gambler: out on the street, in jail, dead, or at Gamblers Anonymous (GA).
"I ended up at GA, thank the Lord, and it's not only saved my marriage and made me a better person, it's also saved my life. If I gamble again, I'll die. I'll lose everything.
"I'm ultra-determined. I don't think about gambling today. I don't buy raffle tickets, I don't buy lottery tickets, I don't go to race tracks - I go to GA twice a week.
"I'll be going until I'm 70. Why wouldn't I? It's my medicine."
Sportsmen are three times more likely to gamble
Hartson sees a lot of different people walk through the doors of those meetings - there are an estimated 400,000 people in the UK with a problem - but most of them do not come back. They have not reached their nadir yet.
"You're very selfish as a gambler, very deceitful. Compulsive gamblers are compulsive liars - they're very good at covering things up," said Hartson.
So good, in fact, many can appear, swan-like, to be gliding through life, holding down jobs, living in nice houses, with loving families. And a disproportionately large group can feed this destructive addiction whilst playing professional sport.
Former Cardiff and Sunderland striker Michael Chopra estimates he lost a total of £2m gambling
Hartson's testimony came at a conference organised by the Professional Players Federation (PPF) at Edgbaston Cricket Ground last month.
An umbrella body for the players' associations in cricket, football, rugby union and other leading sports, the PPF wanted to share some research into an issue that has been the stuff of terrace legend.
From jokes about QPR maverick Stan Bowles' inability to pass a bookmaker as well as he could pass a ball, to guesstimates of how many millions golf's favourite rogue John Daly has lost in Las Vegas, the idea that sport's competitive and wealthy young men were cash machines for the gambling industry has been commonplace.
Now, thanks to a study of almost 350 cricketers and footballers, we know sportsmen are three times more likely to have a gambling problem than young men in the general population (6.1% versus 1.9%).
That equates to nearly 200 current professionals in British cricket and football with a serious issue, and another 440 "at risk".
The study had a few more punches to deliver. One in 10 said they gambled to "fit in", one in four said they were encouraged by team-mates to do it, and nearly one in three thought their team's links with the gambling industry "encouraged" them to bet.
For football, in particular, that should be alarming.
A quarter of the Premier League's clubs have gambling logos on their shirts, the Football League's 72 clubs play in competitions sponsored by Sky Bet, William Hill backs the Football Association and pretty much every club has its own "official betting partner".
The highest suicide rate of any addiction
Sporting Chance's chief executive Colin Bland revealed that seven out of 10 of the footballers that come to the Tony Adams-inspired residential clinic are there because of gambling.
But Hartson is not looking for excuses. He realises the vast majority of people gamble rarely, and when they do, they do it because it is fun.
While he may have been frittering away a reported £50,000 a week - he does not put a figure on it himself, as the amounts addicts gamble is relative to their earnings and it is always too much - his dad takes his business clients to Ffos Las racecourse once a year for champagne and £20 each-way punts. "Not everybody gets drawn in," he noted.
But some who do get it bad: gambling has the highest suicide rate of any addiction.
Niall McNamee (in green, playing for Offaly) contemplated suicide when his gambling got out of hand
Sitting alongside Hartson during the conference's main session was Gaelic footballer Niall McNamee. He told a similar tale of the disease's progressive nature - moments of relief that became more fleeting as tolerance to betting's buzz builds.
But he also spoke about bad company, lies, stealing and, ultimately, despair.
"I remember waking up one morning with a knot in my stomach," said McNamee. "It was the most gut-wrenching pain. I had no money to go gambling with, or to buy drink to numb the pain.
"The thought came to me that if I jumped out of the window that would end it all. It terrified me. I have had friends who have died from this addiction."
Thankfully, this was his rock bottom, and he got help. McNamee, who is still one of the game's top forwards, is now a well-respected voice on problem gambling in Ireland, and at 29 is about to launch his own business.
'I should be living in a £4m mansion'
For Hartson, the first symptoms appeared as an 11-year-old potboy at a social club in Swansea. Fascinated by the fruit machines, he memorised the reels and was called over by the adults whenever they had a few nudges.
It sounds innocent enough, but before long he was pouring his money into those machines and begging for money for match fees at the weekend. A decade later he would have accounts with all the top bookmakers and was so consumed by gambling that he would struggle to hold a serious conversation.
Hartson is still a hero among fans of Celtic, where he scored more than 100 goals in a five-year spell
"I can concentrate now and focus on what people are saying, but five years ago I couldn't," he admitted. "My life is so much better now. I'm a better husband, a better father, and I've got money coming out of my ears!"
And just as his cancer foundation is helping people deal with that affliction, he now hopes he can persuade a few footballers to think about their futures.
"I was in a lot of trouble physically and mentally when I quit," said Hartson, who went out with a whimper at West Brom.
"I should be living in a £4m mansion on the edge of the Vale of Glamorgan but I'm not because of all the money I wasted. I've got a nice house in Swansea, and it's paid for, but that's what I should have when you think about the money I earned.
"I would like players now to aspire to the big house."
'We're at a tipping point'
Betting is an integral part of our culture - three quarters of the UK's adult population have gambled, most likely on the National Lottery, in the past year - and betting companies have moved into the sponsorship space vacated by tobacco and, to a lesser extent, alcohol. Without them many sports would struggle.
But listening to the speakers at the conference, it was impossible to avoid the conclusion that British sport needs to look again at its relationship with gambling.
Former Gloucestershire and New Zealand cricketer Craig Spearman said that when his gambling problem escalated, "at times the pain and self-loathing pushed me to the brink".
More must be done to protect the vulnerable, identify problems earlier and make sure gambling is a happy mug's game, not a debilitating illness.
Simon Barker, the assistant chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, notes that prevention through education is cheaper than emergency interventions. His counterpart at the Professional Cricketers' Association, Jason Ratcliffe, said sport was only "scratching the surface" in terms of what was needed.
The Responsible Gambling Trust's chief executive Marc Etches has managed to persuade the gambling industry to donate more than £6m of its profits to fund education and treatment, but he knows it is not enough.
"We're at a tipping point," said Etches. "The industry needs to recognise that it's in the business of risk, and it needs to take more responsibility."
Same story about any form of addiction. I am a regular small gambler (rarely a day would pass without me having a wager) but it is small, affordable and done more for an interest than any delusion of making serious money. Don't succumb to winning streaks or anything like that and probably over any given period I break even.
Watching World cup matches on ITV was very interesting. All the gambling ads at half time- a huge change from a few years earlier.
And one quarter of premiership teams are sponsored by betting firms. Gamble responsibly is bullshit for those prone to addiction.
Same could be said of smoking,alcohol etc.Sadly there will always be those unfortunates with addictive personalities
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 06:45:53 PM
Same could be said of smoking,alcohol etc.Sadly there will always be those unfortunates with addictive personalities
they shouldn't be allowed advertise at half time
Why? It's not an illegal activity. You might as well say RTE shouldn't broadcast the lottery draws
Tony did you listen to the show? why are you trying to down play what is a serious problem? a problem that is on the rise fast esp. among 14-24 year olds. We all know about all the addictions, if you havn't any thing positive or at least informative to the subject why would you clearly try and water it down.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 08:26:29 PM
Why? It's not an illegal activity. You might as well say RTE shouldn't broadcast the lottery draws
I wouldnt be to sure about that, the rise of internet gambling has caught quite a lot of countries off guard regarding legislation and regulation, some have chosen to act some have not. If you actually dig deep enough there is substantial 'turning of the other cheek/blind eye' in this country and many more to betting markets are illegal. I understand many people can hold there own and enjoy a small wager and well within their means and they are well within their rights to do so. But betting companies are Venus Fly traps, they want you in with hollywood dream of the big win and then to lose and lose big. If you have a profitable account, they cancel it-end of story!!
If anyone can recall Boxing Day, nearly every firm had tweeted out a 10 timer football accy from heaven to win a punter £500k, it was funny how similar each story was but with a different firm, putting Bullshit out there on one of the biggest punting days of the year.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 08:26:29 PM
Why? It's not an illegal activity. You might as well say RTE shouldn't broadcast the lottery draws
I don't remember it as a feature of football matches when I was younger . It's taunting addicts and many will fall for it.
It don't think it's ethical.
I am in receipt of such enticing offers daily,but I am disciplined to at least be selective.Gambling is an industry,just like alchohol,tobacco etc.Are you suggesting it should be banned?
My accounts with bookmakers are not profitable from their point of view,but they don't close them in fact they sent me to Man Utd V Liverpool just before Xmas just for placing a £5 bet on a premiership game ( a bet that was successful too)
Some serious gamblers at work! You realise when you hear about winnings. You see you'll always hear of a €50 bet that came in at 5/1 or a €30 that came in at 10/1! And that all sounds good, but you realise there are the umpteen bets (of €30, €50 etc) that don't come in that you don't hear about. Fortunately for a lot of them (and their families) they are not computer literate, so their gambling is restricted to the local retail outlet from 10am to 6pm.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 09:31:27 PM
I am in receipt of such enticing offers daily,but I am disciplined to at least be selective.Gambling is an industry,just like alchohol,tobacco etc.Are you suggesting it should be banned?
My accounts with bookmakers are not profitable from their point of view,but they don't close them in fact they sent me to Man Utd V Liverpool just before Xmas just for placing a £5 bet on a premiership game ( a bet that was successful too)
It should be regulated properly. No need to ban it.
Lads gambling has always been a problem but it has got much worse since on-line gambling was introduced as people can now gamble 24/7. I gamble myself and I know sometimes I gamble more than I should but I have never gambled money that I couldn't afford to lose having said that I can understand how easy it is to let it get a grip of you as gambling is very addictive. I walk into Sean Graham bookies on a Fri afternoon for a weekend football coupon and the young students from Queen's wearing their GAA tops gambling on anything that moves is frightening, they're obviously gambling their student loans.
Having read big John's article and the frightening stuff from Niall McNamee I hope there can be some sort of legislation in the future to stop or limit the advertising of gambling, I have also seen 3 guys from my own club (22 year olds) attending GA in Newry who were in serious trouble thru gambling. Its a serious problem that's getting worse, it was just compared to other addictions but I thing its actually the worst of them all as you can drink and drink until your drunk and can't drink anymore but you can gamble non stop until everything is gone and more.
Regulation will drive it into pubs,clubs etc.All addictions can be beaten with willpower and adequate support.I have been gambling modestly since the late 70s,and I think my largest ever bet was £10.Im afraid it would only take me to lose a substantial amount of money once (if I was silly enough to stake a serious amount of money in the first place) to deter me from ever doing so again.
By the way if you have online betting accounts you get bombarded with copious email/text offers so the TVs ads make no difference.
On the same subject Skybet's enhanced 5/1 on a Chelsea,Man City,West Brom treble tomorrow is well worth a fiver,but nothing larger!
I heard Osin Mc talking about his own addiction to gambling and he was very adamant about how easy it is to hide your addiction and service yoir addiction with the advent of online gambling. Really looks like an epidemic at this stage. Online gambling is a whole new ball-game.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 11:06:35 PM
Regulation will drive it into pubs,clubs etc.All addictions can be beaten with willpower and adequate support.I have been gambling modestly since the late 70s,and I think my largest ever bet was £10.Im afraid it would only take me to lose a substantial amount of money once (if I was silly enough to stake a serious amount of money in the first place) to deter me from ever doing so again.
By the way if you have online betting accounts you get bombarded with copious email/text offers so the TVs ads make no difference.
On the same subject Skybet's enhanced 5/1 on a Chelsea,Man City,West Brom treble tomorrow is well worth a fiver,but nothing larger!
I disagree with Ye there that all addictions can be beaten with support. Depends on the individual.
That is why I included willpower in my post along with support
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 06:45:53 PM
Same could be said of smoking,alcohol etc.Sadly there will always be those unfortunates with addictive personalities
(http://www.gifcrap.com/g2data/albums/Celebrities/Jon%20Stewart%20looking%20confused.gif)
Gambling is a massive problem in schools for lads 13-18. They almost see it as the norm.
As presumably is smoking
So what is everyone proposing? Highly regulated industries such as tobacco and alcohol has not reduced addictions.Similarly nothing will reduce gambling addictions and the only way to address it is for those afflicted recognise the problem and seek help.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 07:47:48 AM
So what is everyone proposing? Highly regulated industries such as tobacco and alcohol has not reduced addictions.Similarly nothing will reduce gambling addictions and the only way to address it is for those afflicted recognise the problem and seek help.
Tony
Gambling was deregulated in the UK in 2007.
An Ofcom report in 2013 found that gambling ads had increased by 600% as a result of deregulation.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/Trends_in_Ad_Activity_Gambling.pdf
Ads like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZqiaVIDcoI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kou1V98kxlw
behfreesixfive
Tobacco advertising is banned. It is not allowed to advertised cheap beer on TV when those most likely to be alcoholics are watching.
Gambling is supposed to be self regulating but it doesn't work. Many people can enjoy a bet without becoming addicted but an important minority can't and for those people it's a parasitical industry (plus it doesn't even pay tax.)
Women are much more honest about the fallout from gambling addictions
http://www.weddingsonline.ie/discussion/anyone-experience-with-gambling-addiction-t399969.html#p4188169
the wider society pays the price
re-regulation is inevitable.
Will re regulating gambling solve the problem of addiction? Has advertising bans reduced the number of alcoholics or smokers? I don't think so.
Addiction is a personality trait and requires appropriate medical/social services/therapeutic intervention.It has no correlation to advertising or statutory regulation.
Tony I can't believe your attitude on this. Alright u gamble and it's not a problem for u. Fair play. No one loves a bet more than me though thankfully I'm lucky enough in the respect that I know where to draw the line and don't gamble more than I can afford. However ill decides comment about young players in his club having to attend meetings due to the seriousness of their problems is typical up and down the country. With the advent of internet gambling and the plethora of advertising gambling has became trendy amongst young people in our country. Paddypower has become a household name. It's a far cry from the smokey shops with blacked out windows we had 20 years ago. Clearly gambling is causing more and more problems for our young people. We can't just stick our heads in the sand and say that's it's not a problem for me. We must help our youth wether it be through a ban on advertising, new legislation or increased education. An addiction is an illness. Though your not addicted. Well done tony. Many congratulations
'gambling' is everywhere in life, business,relationships,education,sports etc.
you dont succeed at anything in life if you dont work at it and in these cases the work was never put in so failure was always going to occur.
risk is a part of all this but some people treat the bookies as a 'pastime', which i find incredible because the industry itself takes this gambling very seriously and as a result are very successful and profitable business'.
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2015, 10:30:02 AM
'gambling' is everywhere in life, business,relationships,education,sports etc.
you dont succeed at anything in life if you dont work at it and in these cases the work was never put in so failure was always going to occur.
risk is a part of all this but some people treat the bookies as a 'pastime', which i find incredible because the industry itself takes this gambling very seriously and as a result are very successful and profitable business'.
I think the point of this thread is the destruction gambling causes amongst the youth of Ireland today. Not sure what ur point is that everything in life is a gamble.
Tony I don't want to trivialise your point of view, I have great problems with your views that we don't need regulation as I have been saying for years that online gambling will cause more problems than any drinking has done. This will cost us the earth. I'd say you have your own compulsive addiction to publicity which over the years has got you into potential great problems with shadowy figures etc. And you couldn't help yourself..
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 09:46:58 AM
Will re regulating gambling solve the problem of addiction? Has advertising bans reduced the number of alcoholics or smokers? I don't think so.
Addiction is a personality trait and requires appropriate medical/social services/therapeutic intervention.It has no correlation to advertising or statutory regulation.
No correlation? Throw up some research to prove it. It sounds like horseshit.
Have the numbers of smokers not reduced over the last 30 years?
Quote from: rrhf on January 10, 2015, 10:52:35 AM
Tony I don't want to trivialise your point of view, I have great problems with your views that we don't need regulation as I have been saying for years that online gambling will cause more problems than any drinking has done. This will cost us the earth. I'd say you have your own compulsive addiction to publicity which over the years has got you into potential great problems with shadowy figures etc. And you couldn't help yourself..
Methinks he doth protest to much.
He has said that 'rarely a day' would pass without him making a bet.
If we take him at this word that his highest bet was £10 AND and that he never bet more than a single bet on a given day, we could assume something along the following: say 300 days a year, betting an average of £5, would be betting £1,500 a year.
To some people that would be fine, to others that would be £3,000 of gross earning, or probably 10% of the average industrial wage.
And that is assuming that there is no element of denial there. By denial I mean the way most of us say we have 15 units of alcohol per week when asked.
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 10, 2015, 11:04:48 AM
Have the numbers of smokers not reduced over the last 30 years?
Alcohol access is limited in Muslim countries, who as a consequence tend to have very few alcoholics. I don't see Tony's point.
My bets tend to be of a measly £1 on five or six teams accumulating returns of £30 on average if successful.I reckon I break even over a year and simply get a kick out of following the teams backed.I know I'm never going to bust the bookies.
I'm not denying gambling causes problems but our young people are more amenable to the misuse of alcohol and drugs and no amount of regulation has lessened this problem.
Certainly there is need for education etc but people with any additiction should be encouraged to seek personal help and therapy as early as possible.
"I should be living in a £4m mansion on the edge of the Vale of Glamorgan but I'm not because of all the money I wasted. I've got a nice house in Swansea, and it's paid for, but that's what I should have when you think about the money I earned.
I've always liked Hartson, seems like a sound fellow but that comment is a bit crass.
Why earning the sort of money he earned,would Hartson have become addicted to gambling?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 02:45:43 PM
Why earning the sort of money he earned,would Hartson have become addicted to gambling?
Tony, normally I would take the piss but I will refrain this time.
Do you really not understand this? Or are you winding us up?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 09, 2015, 11:06:35 PM
Regulation will drive it into pubs,clubs etc.All addictions can be beaten with willpower and adequate support.I have been gambling modestly since the late 70s,and I think my largest ever bet was £10.Im afraid it would only take me to lose a substantial amount of money once (if I was silly enough to stake a serious amount of money in the first place) to deter me from ever doing so again.
By the way if you have online betting accounts you get bombarded with copious email/text offers so the TVs ads make no difference.
On the same subject Skybet's enhanced 5/1 on a Chelsea,Man City,West Brom treble tomorrow is well worth a fiver,but nothing larger!
A truly disgusting post in a thread most likely being viewed by those have problems with gambling.
QuoteI am a regular small gambler (rarely a day would pass without me having a wager) but it is small,
Quotebut they don't close them in fact they sent me to Man Utd V Liverpool just before Xmas just for placing a £5 bet on a premiership game ( a bet that was successful too)
No Tony them 2 quotes have no relation whatsoever and you keep telling yourself that, them bookies are lovely jubbly lads.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 09:46:58 AM
Will re regulating gambling solve the problem of addiction?
Addiction is a personality trait and requires appropriate medical/social services/therapeutic intervention.It has no correlation to advertising or statutory regulation.
No it wont solve the problem, but when a flood bank bursts do you try and stem the flow? Yes of course you do.
QuoteHas advertising bans reduced the number of alcoholics or smokers? I don't think so.
You think wrong, simple research shows in many countries smoking has reduced.
Your stance here is that of a man standing in a corner with his fingers in his ears shouting 'I dont care what they say Im right, you're wrong'. Pretty much your view on pedophilia in the Catholic Church.
Some views can't be changed, everyone is entitled to an opinion but the fact that your trolling this thread speaks volumes of the person you are.
I am not trolling.Addiction of any sort is a personal malfunction that needs to be treated therapeutically,not by regulating the "vices", which will have no impact whatsoever.Taking the "regulation" logic why not ban alcohol,smoking and gambling altogether then?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 05:43:39 PM
I am not trolling.Addiction of any sort is a personal malfunction that needs to be treated therapeutically,not by regulating the "vices", which will have no impact whatsoever.Taking the "regulation" logic why not ban alcohol,smoking and gambling altogether then?
There is certainly an argument for banning smoking altogether. 100m dead customers so far and an estimated 1BN more to come.
Alcohol, unlike smoking, has some benefits and doesn't bother most customers. However you have to weigh up the negative impact on those it does affect. Is it worth it? Balanced regulation is the obvious answer here.
Gambling is too difficult to define. For example a lot of our banks would have to close if you banned any definition of gambling and most of our economies are build on some speculation. Communism probably works without it, but is that what we want?
But if the argument of regulation etc is valid then surely the best way to avoid addiction is to ban the "vice" entirely?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 06:01:55 PM
But if the argument of regulation etc is valid then surely the best way to avoid addiction is to ban the "vice" entirely?
Why does 'regulation' mean 'ban altogether' to you?
We regulate the markets, we regulate driving on the road, they even have regulations in all the competitions you tell us you enter.
I'm talking about so called vices.If the logic states that regulation will lead to less addiction why not follow that through and ban them altogether and have no addiction?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 06:18:12 PM
I'm talking about so called vices.If the logic states that regulation will lead to less addiction why not follow that through and ban them altogether and have no addiction?
Are road deaths not 'vices'?
Are economic crashes not highly undesirable outcomes.
What you are doing is is taking a reasonable point, in this case regulation for industries known to cause harm, and are trying to move the focal point to banning it altogether. Once there you will hope to have support in arguing against that, pretending that this was what the debate was about all along. It isn't. You are the only one talking about banning everything.
It happens on most threads here Tony and everyone sees through it.
But banks,road travel etc are all fundamental to our existence,gambling,tobacco or alcohol aren't.So if the point of the called for regulation of these three is to reduce addiction why not outlaw all three?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 06:41:38 PM
But banks,road travel etc are all fundamental to our existence,gambling,tobacco or alcohol aren't.So if the point of the called for regulation of these three is to reduce addiction why not outlaw all three?
How is banking fundamental to our existence?
Er hub of economy?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 07:00:25 PM
Er hub of economy?
If your argument is economic then scrapping the other 3 industries doesn't wash.
As for banks, the sooner we reduce their reckless influence the better.
You still haven't explained why, as usual, the argument has to be polarised into no regulation or ban altogether.
I'm saying if regulation is needed to curb addiction then the logic is that if the activity was outlawed completely there would be no addicts.I do not believe further regulation will curb addiction and I'm not advocating that they should be banned altogether
Quote from: T Fearon on January 10, 2015, 07:30:04 PM
I'm saying if regulation is needed to curb addiction then the logic is that if the activity was outlawed completely there would be no addicts.I do not believe further regulation will curb addiction and I'm not advocating that they should be banned altogether
You want no regulation.
So you are trying to polarise the argument into no regulation or a complete ban.
To do this you claim you are using logic. Try this logic: Should 3 year olds be allowed to smoke and drink? The arguments against an outright ban are obvious, but then that is not what anyone is proposing. You even say yourself that you are against it, even though you are the only one arguing for it.
Most normal people would accept that regulation is a happy medium.
Tony is out of his depth on this I think.
I am saying that regulation will not effectively tackle the growing problem of addiction,that's all,and if the problem was even proportionately controlled by greater levels of regulation (which it won't be) then the logic is ultimately go the whole hog and ban gambling,smoking tobacco and alchohol.
Addiction is only cured by the afflicted facing up to their problem and seeking personal therapy
I just caught the tail end of a story there on Radio Ulster about a guy (Declan) with a gambling problem (sounded like a Derry man). Jasus to hear part of that story was unreal and how much it can destroy lives...still shocked here. I will try and listen to that again thru a podcast later
Quote from: illdecide on September 22, 2015, 09:33:51 AM
I just caught the tail end of a story there on Radio Ulster about a guy (Declan) with a gambling problem (sounded like a Derry man). Jasus to hear part of that story was unreal and how much it can destroy lives...still shocked here. I will try and listen to that again thru a podcast later
Illdecide
I think that could have been a guy from Loughgiel you heard this morning, he has been on the news before about this and the effect it had on his friends and family.
Quote from: NAG1 on September 22, 2015, 09:52:35 AM
Quote from: illdecide on September 22, 2015, 09:33:51 AM
I just caught the tail end of a story there on Radio Ulster about a guy (Declan) with a gambling problem (sounded like a Derry man). Jasus to hear part of that story was unreal and how much it can destroy lives...still shocked here. I will try and listen to that again thru a podcast later
Illdecide
I think that could have been a guy from Loughgiel you heard this morning, he has been on the news before about this and the effect it had on his friends and family.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31608360 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31608360)
Betting machine gamblers 'offered perks'
Betting shop staff say they are told to offer gamblers perks to keep them playing on fixed-odds betting machines, a BBC investigation has found. One ex-manager said he was instructed to offer free bets and drinks - in one case it was suggested he could buy lunch for high-spending customers. Other managers we spoke to said they were paid a bonus if they met financial targets on the
machines.
The industry says it takes responsible gambling very seriously. Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBT) offer simple touch screen play, usually on a version of roulette, where people can gamble as much as £100 per spin, in theory every 20 seconds. 'Gods of the shop'
"John", who was a manager at Coral until recently, said staff were given instructions to offer machine players refreshments as soon as they entered the shop and do "absolutely anything" to make them feel comfortable. "If the shop was too hot for them, we would have to turn the heating down or vice versa. They were the gods of the betting shop," he said.
"There was a suggestion from the area manager at one time that if we had a customer coming in their lunch hour, we had to make sure they didn't waste time trying to get a cheese and ham roll instead of playing the machines. You could go out there, buy them a cheese and ham roll and get it ready for them."
Coral said it takes its commitments to responsible gambling "extremely seriously". It added it had "strengthened protections for all its customers, providing help and support for the very small minority that may have issues with their gambling activity". Jump media playerMedia player helpOut of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue. Media caption Nick Eardley explains how FOBT machines work John said managers had to hit their machine profit target and would receive a financial reward if they did. "I know another firm based their whole wage on how much money they made on machines, so there was every incentive for the staff to encourage people," he said. 'Use a hook' The two store managers, who still work for Coral, said they felt pressure to hit financial targets on the FOBTs machines.
One passed on internal emails from Coral's central operations department about a new FOBTs game called Big Banker, which gave advice on "smashing your targets".
It said: "Ensure your team has... identified your target key customers to demonstrate our popular feature game. Offer a demo to all of your machine customers to whet their appetite, then encourage them to play with their own money.
"Once you have identified your target customers, it often helps when you use a 'hook' to encourage them to play. 'You like Big Banker, do you have our bonus card yet? It's quick, it's easy and it's free.'" Case study: 'Red mist' of gambling Tony Franklin has had a problem with gambling since he was a child. He had managed to stay out of the bookies for a year, but over a couple of hours 18 months ago, he blew it all. Having avoided high-street bookmakers for a year, he cleaned out his bank account in just an hour after a trip to the barbers. As he left he was drawn to one of the many betting shops on his high street and one of its FOBTs.
"I was totally devastated and just completely caught up in the gambling, in the red mist of it," he says. His addiction has had a devastating effect on his personal relationships. He had been due to bring his wife and child over to the UK to set up home but his expensive relapse put his plans on indefinite hold.
Now Tony keeps his betting shop receipts from that day as a reminder of how quickly he can lose control when faced with temptation. He feels the industry should be doing more to stop addicts like him losing control. Under the industry's code of conduct, all staff should be trained to identify and help problem gamblers. But one woman, who works for another unnamed bookmakers, said that did not always happen. "I have never actually been trained. All we have is a leaflet and are told to give them out if we feel people have a problem. But working on your own at night, or even in the morning, makes it extremely hard to hand out leaflets and speak to customers who are clearly frustrated," she said.
Malcolm George, from the Association of British Bookmakers, said: "It is absolutely the case that anyone joining and working in a betting shop will receive training about problem gambling."
Coral said it rejected the allegations made by the BBC. It added in its statement: "Recent health surveys show that problem gambling rates have in fact fallen since the introduction of FOBTs and the average Coral customer's loss per session on a FOBT is around £6-9. "The introduction of supervised stakes above £50 from April last year has had a profound change in customer behaviour, with an approximate 70% reduction in stakes above that level. "Training, tools and processes are in place throughout the business to ensure that potential problem gamblers are identified and protected."
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/22/study-finds-statistically-significant-link-between-playing-team-sports-and-gambling/
Young men who play team sports in Ireland are four times more likely to participate in gambling on a regular basis than those who did not play any team game between the ages of 17 and 20, new research states.
A study by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and Higher Education Authority found a "statistically significant positive association" between participation in team sports and regular gambling among young males.
The study into the connection between gambling behaviours and participation in team sports found almost one in 10 young adults participate in online gambling by the age of 20.
Online gambling
The findings, published in the Journal of Gambling Studies, state that the propensity of young men who play team sports to gamble was entirely independent of any other socio-demographic factor such as education, household background and employment status. However, the study found no association between females who play team sports and gambling habits.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/28/we-should-be-screaming-about-survey-on-problem-gambling-among-intercounty-gaa-players/
The study published the results of a survey of 608 intercounty players – men and women – using the GPA and WGPA as a conduit. It found that the prevalence of problem gamblers was 4.8 per cent. That might sound like a fairly trifling amount, except that the prevalence of problem gamblers within the general public is 0.8 per cent. In other words, you are six times more likely to have a gambling problem if you play intercounty GAA than if you don't.
And even if you narrow the general population down to males aged 25-34 (2.9 per cent of whom are considered to be problem gamblers) or 18-24 (1.9 per cent), the numbers among intercounty players are still off the charts. "Biggest problem in the GAA," wrote one respondent. "In training dressingrooms or on buses to matches it is the core of the conversation for a high percentage of players," wrote another.
[ Study finds 'statistically significant' link between playing team sports and gambling ]
The numbers are worrying across the board. The study found that 79 per cent of intercounty players are current gamblers. Not only is that higher than the general Irish population (65 per cent), it's significantly higher than among European professional athletes (57 per cent). All problem gamblers in the report were male. Only four per cent said they would talk to a team-mate if they had a problem.
In comments by the players themselves, some of the very qualities that help them forge a career at the elite level of the game are put forward as factors. "The addictive/obsessive nature of most intercounty players' personalities leave them very susceptible to gambling problems," wrote one player. "With a feeling of no outlet, online gambling can be the buzz that this type of person seeks."
Maybe the most eye-catching number of all is the finding that 19 per cent of respondents didn't know that it's against the GAA rules to bet on a game in which you are involved. "Most players bet on GAA due the knowledge they have on it," wrote one player. "Betting on club matches players seem to think they have better knowledge than the bookie especially in club championships and tournaments with little exposure," was another reply.
I'd say my limit used to be a lot lower a good few years ago, I've now a £30 limit...
on the online betting it has the ability to let you know your winnings and your losses over the year... first time I looked I was down 40 quid, the following year down 35 quid have never been in front in my life, the big wins are generally lost with the many small losses. I remember working in a place many years ago and the guy that did the wages paid out to a workers wife as her husband had it spent on a Friday night before getting home
I bet what I can afford, it's still a lot less than her yearly hairdressing fees than mine ;D
Dont like to think about it but I would probably be considered a problem gambler.
It has gotten to the point that I dont actually watch live sport unless I have had a bet which started the alarm bells ringing.
As MR says you can check your plus/minus for the year with bookies.
Have been restricted with a number of bookies and had one account closed down.
Now I have not made any serious amount of money but I am averaging between £50 and £500 profit between the accounts each year over the last 4 or 5 years.
I wouldnt back any more than 5 horses in a week but would bet on every sports event I am interested in along with plenty of long term bets on competitions.
Luck is probably on my side but if I started shifting serious losses I dont even think I could stop gambling.
Quote from: Taylor on January 28, 2023, 04:03:32 PM
Dont like to think about it but I would probably be considered a problem gambler.
It has gotten to the point that I dont actually watch live sport unless I have had a bet which started the alarm bells ringing.
As MR says you can check your plus/minus for the year with bookies.
Have been restricted with a number of bookies and had one account closed down.
Now I have not made any serious amount of money but I am averaging between £50 and £500 profit between the accounts each year over the last 4 or 5 years.
I wouldnt back any more than 5 horses in a week but would bet on every sports event I am interested in along with plenty of long term bets on competitions.
Luck is probably on my side but if I started shifting serious losses I dont even think I could stop gambling.
Last thing i want to be doing is preaching, but please get some advice/help. A close family member lost everything through gambling and ruined his life. Not just his life but his familie's also.
Yes obviously if someone is spending what they can't afford they need to look at what they are doing.. the actual online betting has curbed me as it's her that looks after the money in the house, she ain't shy in telling me off :D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 06:46:26 PM
Yes obviously if someone is spending what they can't afford they need to look at what they are doing.. the actual online betting has curbed me as it's her that looks after the money in the house, she ain't shy in telling me off :D
I used to do the horses years ago, couple of pound each day and then football at the weekend, it soon adds up, wouldn't touch the horses now.
I just do football at the weekend now,£10-15, maybe golf majors (always back my mate McIlroy). As MR2 says bet what you can afford to lose.