Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

Started by Angelo, October 22, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

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Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

Yes
122 (71.8%)
No
48 (28.2%)

Total Members Voted: 170



Franko

Quote from: Franko on November 13, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
So the Pfizer CEO sold $5.5m worth of shares on the day the vaccine was announced.......

What you left out there was this was done as he had arranged a deal with his broker months ago that he was to sell a percentage of his shares if the share price reached a certain price.

This is what happened this week. While the optics of it certainly aren't good his remaining shares are worth 9 times his annual salary and it's not like he sold his entire holding.   

The US stock exchange would be all over this if they suspected insider trading and you can do jail time for that in the US.

How does that change things?

You seem to have great faith in the ethics of the US stock exchange and billion dollar pharma.....

The CEO of Pfizer must be very well qualified and intelligent to even get appointed in the first place, but I doubt fortune telling or ability to tell the future is on his CV or a factor for him being appointed.

August 19th Mr. Borla signed a contract to sell a portion of his shares if they reached a certain price. He can't set the price of the shares on the stock market. That's set based on all manner of factors such as company performance, dividends, projections for example. He's been with the company in one role or another for the last 25 years, has an annual salary of $17m and this deal followed all rules and regulations for insider trading.

Every major pharmaceutical company in the world is working on a vaccine at the moment. There is no way back in August he could have known Pfizer would be the first to company to announce they have a potential vaccine.





He signed that contract three months ago. Why do you think they reached that price?

If you've a point to make in relation to this, then you should probably make it.

'Back yourself' as you might say.

Nothing offered other than hot air.

As expected.

Wonder if Seaney got speaking to his pal yet?

LCohen

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 15, 2020, 08:59:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 15, 2020, 08:53:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 08:48:32 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 15, 2020, 08:43:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 08:33:03 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 15, 2020, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 15, 2020, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on November 15, 2020, 08:02:25 AM
I see Labour in UK pushing for anti-vac censorship law to stop idiots posting misinformation.  Interesting.

always get very uncomfortable with the word censorship

Nothing to be uncomfortable with here though?

If it were proposed that newspaper publishers could not be prosecuted if they knowingly printed material that made false claims about a vaccine presumably you would have a problem with that?

The difficulty is that Anne McCloskey for example stood in Derry(and a lot of others) few months back saying that the information on death certs was misleading and being distorted ie the 28 days  metric.

People were calling for that argument to be censored then, it has now been openly accepted as true.

We dont know enough about the vaccine, until we do people should be allowed to voice their concerns

Where did you hear that people would not be able to voice their concerns?

here-censorship is that is it not?

There is nothing in the Labour proposal that would stop you expressing your genuine concern unless the social media platform could prove what you were saying was false in which the social media platform (effectively the publisher) would be bound by the same law as print and broadcast media.

Thats the problem, as I have said, what we were told was false 3 months ago is now true.

Censorship is something we should all be wary of, especially in this country

I know nothing about the example you cite. Perhaps more detail?

The 28 days?

Yeah. I don't know what you are driving at. More details please. Presumably she posted something that you think she wouldn't be allowed to under the Labour policy or she said something that was ruled to be incorrect at the time but is now established as being true? I have googled her and can't find anything that fits into either category.

Angelo

Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
So the Pfizer CEO sold $5.5m worth of shares on the day the vaccine was announced.......

What you left out there was this was done as he had arranged a deal with his broker months ago that he was to sell a percentage of his shares if the share price reached a certain price.

This is what happened this week. While the optics of it certainly aren't good his remaining shares are worth 9 times his annual salary and it's not like he sold his entire holding.   

The US stock exchange would be all over this if they suspected insider trading and you can do jail time for that in the US.

How does that change things?

You seem to have great faith in the ethics of the US stock exchange and billion dollar pharma.....

The CEO of Pfizer must be very well qualified and intelligent to even get appointed in the first place, but I doubt fortune telling or ability to tell the future is on his CV or a factor for him being appointed.

August 19th Mr. Borla signed a contract to sell a portion of his shares if they reached a certain price. He can't set the price of the shares on the stock market. That's set based on all manner of factors such as company performance, dividends, projections for example. He's been with the company in one role or another for the last 25 years, has an annual salary of $17m and this deal followed all rules and regulations for insider trading.

Every major pharmaceutical company in the world is working on a vaccine at the moment. There is no way back in August he could have known Pfizer would be the first to company to announce they have a potential vaccine.





He signed that contract three months ago. Why do you think they reached that price?

What exactly do you think pharmaceutical companies have been working on for the last 9 months or so? You don't need to be a genius to figure out they're all trying to find Covid-19 vaccines.

Mr. Borla couldn't make the shares reach a certain price but I imagine he quite reasonably believed that if the company could come up with a vaccine then the share price would increase.

It's likely there has been a lot of people investing in pharma companies over the last 9 months or so in that hope that company is first out with a medically approved vaccine so they would make a killing

I think executive decisions are more motivated in economics that humanitarianism.

You seem to be doing a lot of speculating there. The optics are very poor in any case.

All you do is speculate. You tried to claim Pfizer CEO was committing fraud, but you were found out. You also tried to claim suicides were up 200% in lockdown, but you got called out on that as well.

Very first post on this thread you claimed a vaccine was being pushed through without proper testing and shock horror you don't offer anything to back up your speculation

You don't offer any facts and when pushed for answers offer nothing.

I didn't try to claim anything. I stated facts that the Pfizer executives are compromised in rushing through vaccines by personal gain and the optics of it are terrible.

A vaccine in being rushed through, what is happening here in these timescales is utterly unprecedented and big pharma is a billion dollar business.

I'm the one offering facts, you're the one choosing to ignore them.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

LCohen

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:00:55 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
So the Pfizer CEO sold $5.5m worth of shares on the day the vaccine was announced.......

What you left out there was this was done as he had arranged a deal with his broker months ago that he was to sell a percentage of his shares if the share price reached a certain price.

This is what happened this week. While the optics of it certainly aren't good his remaining shares are worth 9 times his annual salary and it's not like he sold his entire holding.   

The US stock exchange would be all over this if they suspected insider trading and you can do jail time for that in the US.

How does that change things?

You seem to have great faith in the ethics of the US stock exchange and billion dollar pharma.....

The CEO of Pfizer must be very well qualified and intelligent to even get appointed in the first place, but I doubt fortune telling or ability to tell the future is on his CV or a factor for him being appointed.

August 19th Mr. Borla signed a contract to sell a portion of his shares if they reached a certain price. He can't set the price of the shares on the stock market. That's set based on all manner of factors such as company performance, dividends, projections for example. He's been with the company in one role or another for the last 25 years, has an annual salary of $17m and this deal followed all rules and regulations for insider trading.

Every major pharmaceutical company in the world is working on a vaccine at the moment. There is no way back in August he could have known Pfizer would be the first to company to announce they have a potential vaccine.





He signed that contract three months ago. Why do you think they reached that price?

What exactly do you think pharmaceutical companies have been working on for the last 9 months or so? You don't need to be a genius to figure out they're all trying to find Covid-19 vaccines.

Mr. Borla couldn't make the shares reach a certain price but I imagine he quite reasonably believed that if the company could come up with a vaccine then the share price would increase.

It's likely there has been a lot of people investing in pharma companies over the last 9 months or so in that hope that company is first out with a medically approved vaccine so they would make a killing

I think executive decisions are more motivated in economics that humanitarianism.

You seem to be doing a lot of speculating there. The optics are very poor in any case.

All you do is speculate. You tried to claim Pfizer CEO was committing fraud, but you were found out. You also tried to claim suicides were up 200% in lockdown, but you got called out on that as well.

Very first post on this thread you claimed a vaccine was being pushed through without proper testing and shock horror you don't offer anything to back up your speculation

You don't offer any facts and when pushed for answers offer nothing.

I didn't try to claim anything. I stated facts that the Pfizer executives are compromised in rushing through vaccines by personal gain and the optics of it are terrible.

A vaccine in being rushed through, what is happening here in these timescales is utterly unprecedented and big pharma is a billion dollar business.

I'm the one offering facts, you're the one choosing to ignore them.

Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

Angelo

Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:14:24 PM


Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

You're conflating things as usual.

The vaccine has been rushed through - fact
It is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact
Pfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact
The optics of which are not good - fact

And that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

LCohen

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:14:24 PM


Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

You're conflating things as usual.

The vaccine has been rushed through - fact
It is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact
Pfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact
The optics of which are not good - fact

And that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

Conflating nothing. I am getting you the opportunity to set out any defects in the process. Are you aware of any defects in the process. The answer to that is Yes or No. I would be grateful if you would answer it

Angelo

Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:14:24 PM


Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

You're conflating things as usual.

The vaccine has been rushed through - fact
It is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact
Pfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact
The optics of which are not good - fact

And that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

Conflating nothing. I am getting you the opportunity to set out any defects in the process. Are you aware of any defects in the process. The answer to that is Yes or No. I would be grateful if you would answer it

You're framing an argument I'm not having and I think your motivation for such is bizarre

I don't know whether there are defects or whether there are not.

I would have genuine worries about the potential of side effects and defects from the virus due to the facts outlined above.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

LCohen

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 04:15:43 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:14:24 PM


Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

You're conflating things as usual.

The vaccine has been rushed through - fact
It is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact
Pfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact
The optics of which are not good - fact

And that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

Conflating nothing. I am getting you the opportunity to set out any defects in the process. Are you aware of any defects in the process. The answer to that is Yes or No. I would be grateful if you would answer it

You're framing an argument I'm not having and I think your motivation for such is bizarre

I don't know whether there are defects or whether there are not.

I would have genuine worries about the potential of side effects and defects from the virus due to the facts outlined above.

You say you have worries due to it being rushed. My question is - is it being rushed? What has not been done than is giving rise to your worries? The answers lie with you. Please illuminate

dublin7

Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:36:07 AM
It's a simple no for me.

A vaccine is trying to be rushed through, it is not going through the proper testing and approval measures it normally would.

The virus on the other hand is being shown to have a extremely remote fatality rate, an extremely low hospitalisation rate, for people in my demograph.

Your very first post on this thread. Simple questions:

What procedures have been ignored for this vaccine?
What approval measures have been ignored?

As you are so certain of these "facts" can you post the evidence or a link to a qualified medical expert/virologist who has proved the trials of this vaccine are unsafe and unreliable

armaghniac

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
The vaccine has been rushed through - fact

Which required bits of the process are left out?

QuoteIt is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact

Necessity is the mother of invention.

QuotePfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact

Probably everyone who works for Pfizer benefits from this. They have created something of real value to the world and fair play to them.


QuoteThe optics of which are not good - fact

The optics of this are fine, it is the distortions people are applying because of their own limitations that create problems.

QuoteAnd that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

We will. The point is though that the likes of you cannot be allow continue to around spreading Covid because you want to be "different".
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Franko

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:00:55 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 13, 2020, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 13, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:20:52 AM
So the Pfizer CEO sold $5.5m worth of shares on the day the vaccine was announced.......

What you left out there was this was done as he had arranged a deal with his broker months ago that he was to sell a percentage of his shares if the share price reached a certain price.

This is what happened this week. While the optics of it certainly aren't good his remaining shares are worth 9 times his annual salary and it's not like he sold his entire holding.   

The US stock exchange would be all over this if they suspected insider trading and you can do jail time for that in the US.

How does that change things?

You seem to have great faith in the ethics of the US stock exchange and billion dollar pharma.....

The CEO of Pfizer must be very well qualified and intelligent to even get appointed in the first place, but I doubt fortune telling or ability to tell the future is on his CV or a factor for him being appointed.

August 19th Mr. Borla signed a contract to sell a portion of his shares if they reached a certain price. He can't set the price of the shares on the stock market. That's set based on all manner of factors such as company performance, dividends, projections for example. He's been with the company in one role or another for the last 25 years, has an annual salary of $17m and this deal followed all rules and regulations for insider trading.

Every major pharmaceutical company in the world is working on a vaccine at the moment. There is no way back in August he could have known Pfizer would be the first to company to announce they have a potential vaccine.





He signed that contract three months ago. Why do you think they reached that price?

What exactly do you think pharmaceutical companies have been working on for the last 9 months or so? You don't need to be a genius to figure out they're all trying to find Covid-19 vaccines.

Mr. Borla couldn't make the shares reach a certain price but I imagine he quite reasonably believed that if the company could come up with a vaccine then the share price would increase.

It's likely there has been a lot of people investing in pharma companies over the last 9 months or so in that hope that company is first out with a medically approved vaccine so they would make a killing

I think executive decisions are more motivated in economics that humanitarianism.

You seem to be doing a lot of speculating there. The optics are very poor in any case.

All you do is speculate. You tried to claim Pfizer CEO was committing fraud, but you were found out. You also tried to claim suicides were up 200% in lockdown, but you got called out on that as well.

Very first post on this thread you claimed a vaccine was being pushed through without proper testing and shock horror you don't offer anything to back up your speculation

You don't offer any facts and when pushed for answers offer nothing.

I didn't try to claim anything. I stated facts that the Pfizer executives are compromised in rushing through vaccines by personal gain and the optics of it are terrible.

A vaccine in being rushed through, what is happening here in these timescales is utterly unprecedented and big pharma is a billion dollar business.

I'm the one offering facts, you're the one choosing to ignore them.

Definitely not a fact.

More unsubstantiated guff.

Angelo

Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 04:15:43 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 16, 2020, 03:14:24 PM


Offering facts??

Ok. You claim that a vaccine is being rushed through. So list the factual things that should have happened by not with this vaccine that have not factually happened?

You're conflating things as usual.

The vaccine has been rushed through - fact
It is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact
Pfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact
The optics of which are not good - fact

And that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

Conflating nothing. I am getting you the opportunity to set out any defects in the process. Are you aware of any defects in the process. The answer to that is Yes or No. I would be grateful if you would answer it

You're framing an argument I'm not having and I think your motivation for such is bizarre

I don't know whether there are defects or whether there are not.

I would have genuine worries about the potential of side effects and defects from the virus due to the facts outlined above.

You say you have worries due to it being rushed. My question is - is it being rushed? What has not been done than is giving rise to your worries? The answers lie with you. Please illuminate

I've already answered that.

Of course it's been rushed, it's unprecedented to ever have a vaccine in this length of time, that's a fact. The answer was already there for you is you bothered to look.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Angelo

Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
The vaccine has been rushed through - fact

Which required bits of the process are left out?

QuoteIt is unprecedented to have a vaccine in this timeframe - fact

Necessity is the mother of invention.

QuotePfizer CEO did have personal gains in getting the vaccine approved to market - fact

Probably everyone who works for Pfizer benefits from this. They have created something of real value to the world and fair play to them.


QuoteThe optics of which are not good - fact

The optics of this are fine, it is the distortions people are applying because of their own limitations that create problems.

QuoteAnd that's why I've arrived at my position, if you want to ignore that then fire ahead.

We will. The point is though that the likes of you cannot be allow continue to around spreading Covid because you want to be "different".

I haven't got Covid because I follow all the guidelines I'm required to. I don't want to be different, I just value my health first and foremost and I don't want to jeopardise my health by having my body injected with something that could have serious consequences because it makes you feel at ease.

The optics of it are not fine. Billion dollar pharma exec becomes enriched as vaccine gets rushed through, the optics of it are terrible. Optics are how things look and that's how it looks.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL