https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/this-is-not-what-i-signed-up-for--neil-ewings-anger-disdain-and-hope-855152.html
I'm not Kieran Shannon's biggest fan but it is an excellent piece and worth reading. I'd share Ewing's views. Interesting too the point he makes about how the change to 4 divisions from the 1a,1b,2a,2b set up in the league coincided with the growing gulf in standards.
Interesting read from a clearly passionate and reflective player.
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
Who from Tyrone said this?
Quote from: redzone on July 15, 2018, 07:35:54 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
Who from Tyrone said this?
Peter Canavan Enda McGinley this week on OTB
http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11431220/peter-canavan-tiered-system-would-help-emerging-counties (http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11431220/peter-canavan-tiered-system-would-help-emerging-counties)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
I'm getting fed up seeing Sligo on TV every week......
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
I'm getting fed up seeing Sligo on TV every week......
When was the last time the Roscommon hurlers were on TV?
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
Roscommon hurlers and the other 15 or 16 hurling teams from football Counties never had crowds.
I would say at least 90 % of the population of Roscommon never saw a Ros hurling match either club or County.
And you can add 15 or 16 other Counties to that.
The Rackards etc are competitions for hurling teams from football Counties.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
The bit in bold is my slant on it. The lads in Newstalk used to give me ire talking about it. I think they've toned that back a bit since they lost the radio right.
Interesting that there's no mention of the really harmed player in the country, the club player. I read somewhere a few weeks ago a number of Sligo clubs gave walkovers as county players weren't allowed play a game with them and of course the county players themselves refused to stand up and play with their clubs.
The GAA needs to do two things.
It needs to maximise the media exposure to its product in the face of competition from association football and rugby, both of whom have massively increased the media exposure to their games over the last two decades.
But it needs to maximise the competitiveness between all counties. Genuine competitiveness between as many teams as possible makes the "product" better.
At present we have systems that increase media exposure but are weighted in favour of reducing competitiveness. A Super 8 made up of the same teams year on year will not be an attractive product.
You can't turn back the tide and ask the top teams to become less fit. That's not the way things work. But at the same time, the GAA is not doing enough to level the playing field in terms of enabling counties to compete.
The county system is by definition unfair. That is the way it has always been. But Ewing's points about the league system and Croatia reaching the World Cup final with a population of 4.1 million people (Uruguay reached the quarter-finals with 3 million people) are well taken.
But Monaghan are the Croatia of Gaelic football. They consistently manage to compete well with a population of just 60k.
If they can do it, there is little excuse for other counties.
Defeatism, as Ewing says, is rife. The views of Joe Brolly are like a cancer on Gaelic football. Brolly consistently ridicules county football and ridicules the notion of even trying to compete. Then he laments Derry being relegated to Division 4, oblivious that the viral spread of his own defeatist populist nonsense views on the game are likely precisely the reason why they are there.
Joe tells counties and players not to bother competing, ridicules them when they do try, and then wonders why there's a lack of competitiveness.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
So you want to watch more games like yesterday's Roscommon and Tyrone?
Great Post Sid. Fully agree with you.
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2018, 10:33:39 AM
Interesting that there's no mention of the really harmed player in the country, the club player. I read somewhere a few weeks ago a number of Sligo clubs gave walkovers as county players weren't allowed play a game with them and of course the county players themselves refused to stand up and play with their clubs.
Even if the schedule was great for club players in the summer a rake of top club players aged 18-23 will be off on J1s for the summer anyways. They're not going to stick around because Cavan Gaels have a match every two weeks in the group stages of the Cavan championship..
I find having an early autumn championship is fair enough as we usually do in Kildare. If our county board scheduling committee showed a bit more common sense with the timing of league games and issued fixtures early and in a logical manner then there would be no complaints.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
I heard Emlyn Mulligan on Parkinsons podcast recently and he was in favour of a tiered championship as he wanted to play more games against teams of a similar standard, he alluded to that this view was held by many others on the panel too.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 18, 2018, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 07:16:14 AM
Great read. The people pushing for a tiered competition always seem to be from Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone or else involved in broadcast media who would have a massive vested interest.
You don't commit to the games to be on YouTube or a 10 second clip on Twitter.
I heard Emlyn Mulligan on Parkinsons podcast recently and he was in favour of a tiered championship as he wanted to play more games against teams of a similar standard, he alluded to that this view was held by many others on the panel too.
I'd say there's been an increase in players agreeing with Mulligan. It'd be interesting to see how many. However, I'm not sure how this would help. Leitrim play such teams every year in the league and have shown little progress. They won two games this year for the first time in a good while I'd say, one of whom was a division 2 team. I don't see how Leitrim would benefit from playing division 3 and 4 teams in the summer.
Win a Junior Title and move up to Inter?
Emlyn (or Leitrim's next big name) would get to play a Championship Final in Croke Park.
The (ex) Division 2 team they bet this year was Louth.
They get to play a good or higher placed team every year in Connacht.
Leitrim haven't played in Croke Park since it was redeveloped. They need something to aspire too, same with a few other counties.
Gaa rolling the red carpet for Dublin and forgetting the rest
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 08:14:53 PM
Win a Junior Title and move up to Inter?
Emlyn (or Leitrim's next big name) would get to play a Championship Final in Croke Park.
The (ex) Division 2 team they bet this year was Louth.
They get to play a good or higher placed team every year in Connacht.
If they get to a D4 final they'd get to play in Croke Park before just as tiny a crowd as that hypotethical game. You're running out of ideas and wriggle room on this one.
At the recent U14 All Ireland Feile, the games between the evenly matched teams were the most enjoyable, not only for the spectators but the players.
You can see it in the players that they are more up for a game, run more, try more, when they know they are playing a team at their level.
There's nothing worse for morale at that age than taking a real hiding by a superior team.
I know that that feeling doesn't leave you as you grow older.
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 18, 2018, 08:40:27 PM
Leitrim haven't played in Croke Park since it was redeveloped. They need something to aspire too, same with a few other counties.
Gaa rolling the red carpet for Dublin and forgetting the rest
Leitrim v Louth Tommy Murphy cup final in 2006 was played Croke Park but i guess like everything with 2nd tier competitions that is forgotten about now.
Tommy Murphy was a back of an envelope TOURNAMENT.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 08:14:53 PM
Win a Junior Title and move up to Inter?
Emlyn (or Leitrim's next big name) would get to play a Championship Final in Croke Park.
The (ex) Division 2 team they bet this year was Louth.
They get to play a good or higher placed team every year in Connacht.
Fine. If the likes of Leitrim want to play in a junior championship I say give it to them. But I don't see any realistic hope of them winning it. Success needn't be measured in trophies alone. Improvement can be measured in other ways and I don't see a third tiered championship would do much to improve Leitrims fortunes.
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 18, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 08:14:53 PM
Win a Junior Title and move up to Inter?
Emlyn (or Leitrim's next big name) would get to play a Championship Final in Croke Park.
The (ex) Division 2 team they bet this year was Louth.
They get to play a good or higher placed team every year in Connacht.
Fine. If the likes of Leitrim want to play in a junior championship I say give it to them. But I don't see any realistic hope of them winning it. Success needn't be measured in trophies alone. Improvement can be measured in other ways and I don't see a third tiered championship would do much to improve Leitrims fortunes.
Firstly, I know next to nothing about Leitrim football. A Sam or Connacht title is so far out of reach maybe many don't commit and those who do are a beaten docket before they take the field. If, after the Connacht campaign they went into a junior competition, who knows, it may galvanise the county and give them something more realistic to aspire to. Who's to say in 3/4 years they wouldn't be challenging or making decent inward roads in a Junior championship?
Quote from: JoG2 on July 18, 2018, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 18, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 08:14:53 PM
Win a Junior Title and move up to Inter?
Emlyn (or Leitrim's next big name) would get to play a Championship Final in Croke Park.
The (ex) Division 2 team they bet this year was Louth.
They get to play a good or higher placed team every year in Connacht.
Fine. If the likes of Leitrim want to play in a junior championship I say give it to them. But I don't see any realistic hope of them winning it. Success needn't be measured in trophies alone. Improvement can be measured in other ways and I don't see a third tiered championship would do much to improve Leitrims fortunes.
Firstly, I know next to nothing about Leitrim football. A Sam or Connacht title is so far out of reach maybe many don't commit and those who do are a beaten docket before they take the field. If, after the Connacht campaign they went into a junior competition, who knows, it may galvanise the county and give them something more realistic to aspire to. Who's to say in 3/4 years they wouldn't be challenging or making decent inward roads in a Junior championship?
You're right, it could work wonders for them. But I'm wondering why it would when little or no progress has been made in their league performances.
I'm not against it if that's what the players and GAA people from such counties want. I'm just questioning the merits of it.
Don't all Counties have 3 tiers in their Club Championships?
Kerry and Cork have more I suspect.
I never yet saw an unhappy Junior or Inter Championship winning team.
John Horan is supposed to be going round talking to Counties to see what they might want.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 10:11:03 PM
Tommy Murphy was a back of an envelope TOURNAMENT.
Like the Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher cups in Hurling currently?
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 18, 2018, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 10:11:03 PM
Tommy Murphy was a back of an envelope TOURNAMENT.
Like the Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher cups in Hurling currently?
Even the once semi respectable Christy Ring cup didn't have the result of the final mentioned on the news.
NO!
They are hurling Championships for football Counties who have a small minority of hurlers e.g Longford who pick from 60 adult hurlers.
Tommy was a tournament you played after you were knocked out of
1 -Provincial Championship
2 - A.I Qualifiers.
The main thing for me in Ewing's interview:
"Players in every county not been given an equal opportunity to develop their potential."
Critics and their propagandists in the media talk about the inequity in provincial system, but hardly ever about the inequity from county to county. Remove Dublin. Other counties still have huge advantages over rivals because they have more money to develop players potential and development panels from youth.. Why do they have more money:
A) bigger population = equals more money from support base
b) More businesses in economic hotspots = more commercial support
C) bigger population = more gov clout and more funding
It goes on...
What county would trade places with the Leitrims of the world. It's a shame a player of Emlyn Mulligans talents will never get to play in Croke Park. This message was sponsored by absolutelyfuckingnoone.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2018, 11:35:30 PM
Don't all Counties have 3 tiers in their Club Championships?
Kerry and Cork have more I suspect.
I never yet saw an unhappy Junior or Inter Championship winning team.
John Horan is supposed to be going round talking to Counties to see what they might want.
Who said the winners wouldn't be happy? My point is that some junior clubs have very little chance of ever winning the junior championship so what's the point of changing from one problematic format to another ?
Quote from: weareros on July 19, 2018, 12:08:01 AM
The main thing for me in Ewing's interview:
"Players in every county not been given an equal opportunity to develop their potential."
Critics and their propagandists in the media talk about the inequity in provincial system, but hardly ever about the inequity from county to county. Remove Dublin. Other counties still have huge advantages over rivals because they have more money to develop players potential and development panels from youth.. Why do they have more money:
A) bigger population = equals more money from support base
b) More businesses in economic hotspots = more commercial support
C) bigger population = more gov clout and more funding
It goes on...
What county would trade places with the Leitrims of the world. It's a shame a player of Emlyn Mulligans talents will never get to play in Croke Park. This message was sponsored by absolutelyfuckingnoone.
Good post.
I doubt if we'll see representative football moving from the County unit, with all its inequalities, in our lifetimes.
That Ewing lad talks a lot of sense.
He has been a solid footballer and has given Sligo great service. I still think the concept of a second tier for div 3 and 4 counties after they are knocked out of the championship (no back door) should be considered but ONLY if the winners and runners up rejoin at the qf stage.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
The problems are firstly a playing base and secondly the resources put into these codes through the years pales into insignificance as to what the likes of Limerick, Galway, Tipp, Cork etc can put into their teams.
It's not surprising that there's less disparity in both at club level hence why clubs in Carlow, Antrim, Derry, Offaly aren't found wanting in the club AI series and competing with the top tier counties.
That's the reality in hurling and if the truth is told football is exactly the same.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
You'd be imagining wrong.
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
You'd be imagining wrong.
So, when Roscommon were regularly getting hammered out the gate by Galway in the now defunct Connacht hurling championship they were putting more effort in than what they do now when they've a realistic chance of winning a Nicky Rackard??
What are you basing this on?
Have standards in Antrim improved?
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 04:38:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
You'd be imagining wrong.
So, when Roscommon were regularly getting hammered out the gate by Galway in the now defunct Connacht hurling championship they were putting more effort in than what they do now when they've a realistic chance of winning a Nicky Rackard??
What are you basing this on?
Do you know anything all about the state of Roscommon hurling to even utter this thought?
if your crap one of the currently weaker team do you deserve any exposure ?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2018, 04:42:31 PM
Have standards in Antrim improved?
Let's have Cavan v Galway next year.
That should improve the Cavan lads.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 19, 2018, 04:42:31 PM
Have standards in Antrim improved?
Let's have Cavan v Galway next year.
That should improve the Cavan lads.
You said it improved standards, has Antrim improved?
It wasn't me said it improved standards.
Antrim's standards falling for a while now. Weren't they in the Leinster Championship a few years ago.
I'd imagine they have a fair few more hurlers than Carlow or Westmeath so why were they not in the tier 2 Final?
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 04:38:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
You'd be imagining wrong.
So, when Roscommon were regularly getting hammered out the gate by Galway in the now defunct Connacht hurling championship they were putting more effort in than what they do now when they've a realistic chance of winning a Nicky Rackard??
What are you basing this on?
Do you know anything all about the state of Roscommon hurling to even utter this thought?
He's right. They most definitely do. How about you answer his question for a change, instead of your usual play-the-man routine?
Antrim doesn't have that big a hurling population. The hurling standards would never improve the way the christy ring was. The 2nd tier this year was great. Problem in hurling is when you drop a competition standards drop significantly. If this were introduced in football it would be different. Hurling has so much difference in pace between levels. (The standards are up and down in antrim hurling. It depends who turns out really but our clubs haven't won ulster in 2 years and probably won't for a year or two so standards probably have dropped a bit but i think appetite for the county team has too which doesn't help).
Footballers definitely haven't improved.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 04:38:53 PM
So, when Roscommon were regularly getting hammered out the gate by Galway in the now defunct Connacht hurling championship they were putting more effort in than what they do now when they've a realistic chance of winning a Nicky Rackard??
What are you basing this on?
To be fair looking back at some of the scorelines of the Galway games they were fairly respectable. Obviously Galway weren't the strongest back then but these days Roscommon would do well to get within 30.
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 04:46:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 04:38:53 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 19, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 19, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 15, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2018, 09:37:57 AM
2015 Nicky Rackard Cup Final.
Totally irrelevant question.
And was it shown live this year on National TV?
The only irrelevancy is tiered completions, Tommy Murphy, Christy Ring, McDonagh and Rackard. Standards drop crowds drop interest drops TV drops.
There is a reason why Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The standards in those hurling competitions haven't dropped at all. They've improved if anything.
I'd imagine lads would be putting more in when they have a realistic chance of winning a competition.
You'd be imagining wrong.
So, when Roscommon were regularly getting hammered out the gate by Galway in the now defunct Connacht hurling championship they were putting more effort in than what they do now when they've a realistic chance of winning a Nicky Rackard??
What are you basing this on?
Do you know anything all about the state of Roscommon hurling to even utter this thought?
It was always so IMO.
One run out against a disinterested Galway didn't make it any better back in the day.
Mid and lower tier counties don't have the playing base and with a huge step up in professionalism by the counties with the resources to do so have left a unsurmountable gap between the haves and the have nots.
This is not the fault of these tiered competitions but at least most hurling counties are playing competitive games over the summer and have an achievable target to aim for.
Let's be real, most footballing counties aren't within an asses roar of an AI title as its left to the select few and by and large has been the case, just like hurling.
The promotion of said competitions is a whole other debate and the "hurling" presidents who presided over the downgrading of these competitions need their holes booted.